Author Topic: Gossip  (Read 7724 times)

Certain Hope

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2008, 09:29:20 PM »
I appreciate your thoughts and words, Lise. Thank you.

Out of respect for Izzy, I'll leave it at that for now and consider a different thread re: trust, maybe?

I don't know.

Love,
Carolyn

Leah

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2008, 09:41:38 PM »


For clarification only:

From a genuine compassionate heart for Ami, I actually, quite boldly I feel, sent a brief note with the following wording:


"Do you think that this has happened for a reason?

Maybe, God is trying to show you something?"



I do NOT believe in ENABLING behavior, in fact, supported by two threads on the subject - which remain on the 'What Helps' board  (March 12, 2007  &  January 25, 2008)


I DO have witnessed ENABLING and RE-INFORCING behavior occurring here on this board, but that is an altogether different matter entirely.


Please note:   I am too tired (drained) to discuss this, indeed, I do not see the need for me to discuss this further, and so, respectfully, I ask for no response.  Please let it stand.

Love, Leah


http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=7994.msg128929#msg128929


http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=8005.0   Enabling - Is It Really Ever Helpful?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 07:12:26 AM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Hopalong

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2008, 10:13:22 PM »
Hi Lise,

I believe the severe mercy that CB described IS compassion. A kind that is big and whistly, not cuddly. But it is my vision of the big unblinking love that god would be.

That level of accountability...

Not wanting someone shamed. Wanting them liberated.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2008, 11:21:53 PM »
Did I tell you....

I really missed your voice, Hops.

Lighter

Izzy_*now*

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2008, 11:26:54 PM »
That's weird--well maybe not.

I was here and there was a post from Ami about "CB's false piety" and now it's gone. Poof! Penn and Teller?

Well maybe it isn't so strange, nor magic, a computer moofie and a click on DELETE and a person never said it!
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

lighter

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2008, 01:44:20 AM »
lol... Izzie... you're funny tonight.

Lighter

Ami

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2008, 08:13:10 AM »
It really, truly is OK if everyone on here scorns me, Carolyn, Hops, Amber, CB. I see it and feel it. You have made your point.It is loud and clear, I get it.
 I have to be "me". That was my goal,from the beginning, with the"moaning "posts. I had to find me . I was not liked  by you then and I am not liked ,now.
 I cared, then, as much as I do, now.
 I have a passion and not one of you will deter me from it.
 I know where I want to go and who I want to be.
 I will pursue that until I can face what I need to face, in myself and others. Then, I will be free to go or stay,in life, everywhere.  Ami




 
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Leah

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2008, 08:31:12 AM »


Not 'everyone' on here, dear Ami,


Your words of   "I know where I want to go and who I want to be"

are tuly Self empowering.

And I do so believe that with your new strength, and courage and determination, you can walk the journey and arrive and be.

Standing on your own beautiful two feet.

Very best wishes to you on your exciting journey.

"God Bless You"

Love to you,

Leah
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 08:40:43 AM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Ami

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2008, 08:40:09 AM »
Thank you, Leah
I have so much love in my life,from people who love me FOR me, as I am. You, James, Bill, SS all stood up for me. I am so thankful and that shows me that I AM worthy of love, not an old discarded thing, as my M said.
I can feel and take in people's love and that is new for me.Being loved and giving love is where it is at in life. The more whole and healed I am, the more love I can give and recieve. That is life for me, life abundantly.
Thank you, again, Leah, for your love.    Ami

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Overcomer

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2008, 10:24:52 AM »
We are ALL worthy of love.  Not those on the right or those on the left.  ALL.  We ALL make mistakes.  We all are imperfect humans who have been involved with narcissistic people who stole our sense of self.  We are learning by doing.  And sometimes we do it WRONG!!!!  I love you ALL....Kelly

(again, sorry to hijack your thread, Iz)
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Leah

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2008, 10:48:36 AM »


We are ALL worthy of love.  Not those on the right or those on the left.  ALL.  We ALL make mistakes.  We all are imperfect humans who have been involved with narcissistic people who stole our sense of self.  We are learning by doing.  And sometimes we do it WRONG!!!!  I love you ALL....Kelly

(again, sorry to hijack your thread, Iz)


Yes, ((( Kelly ))) and thank you for your precious words of wisdom.

Indeed, I resonate with accord as you have clearly expressed of my heart - that we ALL fall short, ALL get it wrong, ALL do it wrong - daily.

And, we are ALL worthy of love.


Love to ALL   

Leah x


Edit in:  again, I wish to clarify:

I believe and practice, prefer, a healthy outlook of life:   Admitting ones wrong doing - Apologizing (with genuine remorse) for ones wrong doing - with a real hope of restoration, healing, and growth.

- and the Acceptance of a person's genuine apology.


Which I believe is in contrast to -  any Enabler and any Enabled person - simply enact in unison a seemingly perpetual merry-go-round or carousel of existence.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:12:51 PM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

CB123

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2008, 11:25:53 AM »
ALL fall short, ALL get it wrong, ALL do it wrong - daily.

You can tell from my post on another thread that I agree with this statement completely.

Now to push it to the point of discomfort (which is, after all, where the growth is!):

If ALL fall short, or get it wrong, what is the remedy?  What is the next step after the realization that we got it wrong?

Admitting it.  The growth doesnt come until we admit it.  For as long as we pull the covers over our heads and refuse to see it, we are stuck there--and it skews our growth. 

Some things are hard to see.  They are genuinely gray areas and we struggle and struggle to untangle all that contributes to the grayness.  The process of admitting our part in it is truly difficult.

Some things are obvious.  When you take something that doesnt belong to you, it should be obvious that we got it wrong.  When you cheat on your income taxes.  Etc.

Okay, I'm putting on my hip-boots.

When you gossip about someone else, when you send PM's behind the scenes conjecturing about someone else's motives to a third party that doesnt need to know what you are thinking--that is getting it wrong. 

A PM that wonders aloud if Izzy is dissing Lighter is wrong.

Pointing out that other people also do things wrong is not actually supporting Ami.  It feels like it--because we co-N's instinctively cover up for those we care for (and by saying that, I am in no way inferring that Ami is an N.  I am pointing out our own failings.) 

I think that we are at a critical juncture in our community:  what does the community say about activities that are hurtful to the community?  It's not really about who those comments are aimed at, but rather whether or not the community justifies that kind of comment based on who is making it, or why they have made it.

Several members have already posted that they are reluctant to share because they are afraid of being on the receiving end of that kind of comment.  So, some are being rendered voiceless out of fear.  Does the freedom to gossip overrule the freedom to feel safe from judgment when one is sharing one's heart?  I would think that, on a board of this type, freedom to share one's heart would trump.

Are we, as a board, saying that the person who gossips should not have to endure judgment for their activity, while the person who wants to share their heart about personal struggles should fight their own way through their feelings of being judged?  Tayana's need to share about her struggles with her mother without the fear of judgment should take precedence over the desire to gossip about another member.

You may think I am belaboring this point.  I'm not.  We are damned uncomfortable calling a spade a spade.  This is the rock-bottom issue in our dealings with our N's.  Ami has struggled all her life with calling her mother's activities wrong.  She has spent years internalizing her mother's skewed values, to her own detriment.  It does happen.  It has happened to all of us--not just Ami.  It's the reason we feel as though our lives were eaten up by our N's.

Skirmishes are bound to happen on the board, as well as in 3D life.  But there is something about gossip that is like a little worm that eats the heart out of a relationship.  If the board decides to applaud the life of that worm, to call it "freedom" or "reclaiming our voice", it is not a small thing.  I don't think any of us realize how large the worm can grow if it is fed or justified. 

I appeal to Biblical principles, not out of false piety.  I am plainly not pious.  But I am intimately acquainted with the belief system and values of many that have participated in this conflict.  What point is it to plead with you using my belief system?  You have your own beliefs and they are more than adequate to guide you away from the practice of gossip and into transparency. 

I have found in the midst of all this, how much I truly care for the board and the people here.  How sad I would be for it to be gone.  How much I would miss the voices that are, at this point, contemplating going silent.  I guess that's why I have stuck my neck out and posted--possibly risking getting it chopped off in the process.  Or maybe to do otherwise makes me feel too much like a bystander, a collaborator.  I don't know.  I hope you all will take it seeing the intent behind it.

Much love,
CB










When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

Leah

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2008, 11:53:13 AM »


Admitting it.  The growth doesnt come until we admit it.   For as long as we pull the covers over our heads and refuse to see it, we are stuck there--and it skews our growth. 

Exactly, as I have posted previously, and believe with a healthy outlook of life:   Admitting it - Apologizing (with genuine remorse) - with a real hope of restoration, healing, and growth.


In contrast, any Enabler and any Enabled person - simply enact in unison a seemingly perpetual merry-go-round or carousel of existence.


Love to ALL

Leah
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 11:57:57 AM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Hopalong

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2008, 12:54:15 PM »
(I'm trying to leave for a while so should stop reading, but didn't want to go without saying this...)

Ami, I have tried many times to approach you with love and compassion. I'm sorry you haven't seen it. Maybe I am not capable of reaching you. Scorn? No. Who am I to scorn anybody? I do get frustrated with you, though. That's not hate or scorn. It's just frustration. Likely I frustrate you too. And others. I don't expect everybody to adore me all the time. That wouldn't be reality.

I think one indicator of how we're doing in community is how inflammatory our language can get. Taking ourselves so seriously that there's no such thing as "content" or "annoyed", for example -- instead we've got: ecstasy, agony, love, loathing. All 4.  :shock:

I claim for you and me and all of us all the nuances we're entitled to, as whole human beings.

I hope you continue to grow and heal, here and in your 3D life. Most of all, I hope you find happiness.

Now I really am going to stop posting. I need to detach for a while.

with love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

debkor

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Re: I am the recipient of this PM just 8 min ago--
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2008, 01:04:04 PM »
Hey Hops,

I will miss you.

Love
Deb