normal?

[seasons]

I recently have felt like I am in the middle of a web my N's and bullies in my family are making.
They are talking about me, one n is sharing the gossip with me.
She has been caught in lies, and I don't remember over and over.

I believe she is part of the crazy making thats going on. Just last night she asked if I received an email from anyone. Which was odd because I realized she has asked me that question a lot in the last weeks. Mind you she doesn't have a computer, so for her it is an odd question.

Then she slips and says did middle sister N email you? I said, "No like, I wouldn't expect one." I haven't seen middle n sister since august.
Again I know she is leaving out the facts.

Then she mumbles she mentioned something about your birthday. I said, "she has already dropped them off."
She says well I don't remember but it does have to do with your birthday. She wants to go out with you somewhere, oh I don't remember she says.

Then I remember my middle n wrote a note in my card lets go to Bob's for a burger. So then I mentioned this to older N she said yes, thats what it is.
She knows I want know contact, ignores me about my feeling.

Then continued to say middle n is emailing you because you NEVER answer the phone. Hmmmm she hasn't called me in almost a year?
Older brother also told oldest N I never answer the phone. Hmmmmm until several weeks ago it has been about a year since he has called.
When he did call and I wasn't home he told everyone in my family I was and had my daughter answer and pretend I was out. LIE!

Now two sibling I have basically nothing to do with are saying the same stuff. Brother said he is tired of trying to have a connection with me, hmmm no there has been no connection between us ever. Lie again.

Older sister I think is telling them all I have anxiety. Like that is the reason I don't want to spend my time with them. The reason is the are mean bullies.
So does that bring out my anxiety yes.
She is labeling me, yet she was the one who was in a mental hospital for two weeks, hmmmmm never got the strait label. And I never bring it up. Projection again.

I think older N has her problems with our siblings and is using me to get the spot light off herself.

She also told me middle n sister didn't believe I couldn't make it to the graduation party or if I did have something I should of canceled. She said it was very sad. Meaning me, I am sad for not going.
Also doesn't believe my oldest daughter plays soccer and coaches little sister. passed along to me.

What is most troubling is how can there be disfunction with me and my all my siblings. Has anyone experienced this? Feel a bit out numbered four to one.

I just want to be left alone. Yet am drawn into drama about me because my n loves to share the rumors and insults with me.

Thanks for letting me get this out.

[lighter]

seasons:

The dynamic of validating our own realities, without relying on outside validation.

Hmmmmm.....

Trying to pull back and exerpience acceptance and peace, even when our percpections and reality are challenged/messed with.

It's a process.

I think if we're dependent on outside validation, then we're going to be thrown off balance every time our perceptions are challenged....

and that just has to be played out until we no longer doubt or experience confusion and triggers.

At some point, you(general) KNOW in your chest what's going on, no matter who challenges or points out symptoms.

You (general) know what the underlying problem is.... and so aren't confused or hurt by the symptoms any longer.

It is what it is.  No more doubting, confusion or guilt that it's somehow your fault.  ::shrug::

People in positions of trust, who have been praying on you since you were too small to defend yourself.....

are not trustworthy.

You have to learn to trust yourself and, perhaps find new family members who are worthy.

The symptoms make absolutely no sense....

Our minds want to make sense of somethign that will never make sense.... and so.... until our hearts KNOW..... we have to go through the process..... and then we detach, trust our perceptions, stop becoming confused and triggered..... and continue living in our own wonderful limited moments on this earth.


Lighter

[Izzy_*now*]

Dear seasons,

This is a mess of crazymaking for you. It sounds as though your head is spinning trying to figure things out?

Can you go No Contact with these siblings? Then they will leave you alone.

I did NC with the 1 N sister, another is in her own world anyway, brother writes/calls only on my birthday and a Xmas, and another sister has just stopped emailing, because I have not responded immediately to her emails, and that was because she said she couldn't keep up with me when I did respond right away.

It is sooooooooooooooooo pleasant!

They singled me out, when we were little, to leave me out and as the years have passed I still felt on the outside looking in and this NC with them is very refreshing, calming, and I doubt even any gossip exits amongst them, as they know little about me now.

Is anything standing in the way of NC for all?

xx
Izzy

[Ami]

Dear Seasons,
 I am sorry about the pain and confusion. It seems you are just starting to face and sort out a lifetime of pain. I think you are looking , facing and defining it. As far as changing it, I don't think you can, as we all learn, and not w/out tremendous sadness.
 I think you are fine, a wonderful person, with sterling qualities.
 I think you will separate yourself from them ,in a way you can live with,in time.
  Keep sharing and writing. It is a slow process, very slow, sometimes. I am sorry, Seasons.    Love   Ami

[Hopalong]

Hi Seasons,

It must be terribly hard to separate yourself from the familiarity of having siblings you "belong to", even though these relationships don't sustain you.

I know it was painful for me to face the utter end of my relationship with my brother. And objectively, he's a dishonest, abusive, sociopathic bully whom I'm much better off without. Yet, still...it was confirmation I'm one body more alone in the world.

The only way I've found to deal with this has been to very very intentionally (and for 20+ years now) created a substitute extended family. I have found that in the UU church. For others, it would be a different one.

For me, it's been a place to share my gifts and learn that I could display my weaknesses, and still be loved.

You deserve that too, and one thought you could try if it makes sense to you, is: All the hours of suffering and worrying I spend on the Nfam, I could begin to use to build a chosen family, instead.

love to you,
Hops

[seasons]

I read Izzy's thread on what helps. It was helpful because I am so full of "Hey thats not true, or half truths." Of course this is said over and over again in my head.


I want to defend myself! Yet I know with my head it can never happen but my heart wants justice or to scream my truths, not their distorted stories about me, using me to lift them up by putting me down with insults and negative innuendos.

Dealing with toxic people

Toxic people. If you are experiencing this in your life, let me share with you what I have learned. I think I can help you to feel better.

* Be comforted in the fact that you are not alone. Every person walking the earth knows at least one toxic person in their life. The toxic person is a family member, friend, associate, workmate, boss, etc. Toxic people come in all shapes and forms as they know no boundaries.

* Realize that until you stop allowing a toxic person to hurt you and your life, they will continue to do so.

* The most important thing to remember is that you have the power to stop a toxic person. You do this by controlling your own actions and reactions. As you probably already know, you cannot control the actions of other people. But the good thing is you can control yourself and your life. You have the power to walk away from a toxic person and not allow them into your life anymore. Freedom is a wonderful and liberating experience.

* Realize that toxic people can drain your health, energy, well being and sanity. It helps to move away from toxic people and move towards people who are positive and uplifting. Positive people are a blessing. Rely on your instincts, they never lie. Train yourself to move away from what hurts you and move towards what feels good. This is one of the smartest life skills you can learn, and also one of the best gifts you can ever give to yourself.

* Toxic people are extremely negative, nasty, miserable, whiny, jealous, inconsiderate, financially irresponsible, selfish, and abusive. They can be criminally minded, mentally ill, or just plain evil. Toxic people are also the ones that abuse alcohol or drugs and then hurt other people. The toxic individual exudes the dark side of human nature all of the time. They cause other people pain, craziness, and aggravation. They are not hard to recognize. Just take notice of how you feel when you are around one of these people. It will be easy to determine. You will immediately feel sick and experience physical symptoms like a headache or stomach pain. Or you will just feel like you are going crazy, but don't worry that is the true mark of being with a toxic person. Remember this so that you will be better able to identify a toxic person. That is the first step towards eliminating one from your life.

* Know that when a person is toxic it is because of their own issues. Sometimes these issues can consist of mental illness. Accept that a toxic persons behavior has nothing to do with you. In life, each of us has to take responsibility for our own actions. Toxic people do not do this. They have a habit of turning things around so that you feel bad, you feel guilty, and you feel like you are at fault. Remember that when dealing with a toxic person, they are responsible for their own actions, but often do not. Realize this and you take back your power.

* The best thing you can do when dealing with a toxic person is to walk away and not allow them to hurt you anymore. If you cannot walk away, then mentally walk away. You can do that by being kind to yourself. Allow yourself to disengage, disassociate, and detach. Detachment is a process of not caring.
It is something you do for yourself. It is a mental skill that takes some time to learn at first, but once it is mastered, it can help you to become stronger mentally and physically. Detachment is a necessary skill for preserving your own mental health. Detaching from people and situations that are not good for you is healthy and can help you to feel better. Begin detachment by repeating affirmations. Affirmations are powerful because over time, the mind believes what we program into it. The following are some good examples to help you, but feel free to make your own that speak to you personally.

I do not care about ***.
I will not allow *** to hurt me.
Detaching from*** will help me to be healthy on many levels.
I control my own life and decisions.
I am strong.
I feel good about the decision to detach.
Detachment is healthy and necessary.

* When dealing with toxic people remember that exercise is your best friend. Exercise relives both mental and physical tensions. It helps the body to produce healing chemicals that will repair your body and help you think more clearly. Exercise also encourages the release of endorphins, chemicals that relieve pain and help you to feel good both mentally and physically.

* Most importantly develop supportive relationships with your life partner, friends, family, workmates, and associates. There is strength in numbers. Talking things over with the people in your life who love and care for you, can help you to overcome the negativity of toxic people. Just as animals and children instinctively can sense when someone is good or evil, the people who love you are very good at recognizing when someone is toxic and hurting you. Loved ones are a good defense against toxic people because they can offer you good advice and support for eliminating negative influences in your life.
 
 
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I will be back to read and reply when it is quiet around here.
 I need and want your help. I really feel like this is getting out of control and want to put a stop to it. seasons


 

[seasons]

seasons:

The dynamic of validating our own realities, without relying on outside validation.

Hmmmmm.....

Trying to pull back and exerpience acceptance and peace, even when our percpections and reality are challenged/messed with.

It's a process.

I think if we're dependent on outside validation, then we're going to be thrown off balance every time our perceptions are challenged....

and that just has to be played out until we no longer doubt or experience confusion and triggers.

At some point, you(general) KNOW in your chest what's going on, no matter who challenges or points out symptoms.

You (general) know what the underlying problem is.... and so aren't confused or hurt by the symptoms any longer.

It is what it is.  No more doubting, confusion or guilt that it's somehow your fault.  ::shrug::

People in positions of trust, who have been praying on you since you were too small to defend yourself.....

are not trustworthy.

You have to learn to trust yourself and, perhaps find new family members who are worthy.

The symptoms make absolutely no sense....

Our minds want to make sense of somethign that will never make sense.... and so.... until our hearts KNOW..... we have to go through the process..... and then we detach, trust our perceptions, stop becoming confused and triggered..... and continue living in our own wonderful limited moments on this earth.
Lighter
 
 

Lighter,
Thank you so much. I understand all that you have shared. It makes so much sense. It's like you knew everything my heart was wishing for.
I have felt like I have come so far then when the numbers grew quick against me, I let them win, by letting them in my head.


How long is the process?
I should know better. HIt myself over the head yet again for being so stupid.
Decades of the same old stuff and they can still trigger me. Well that gets me so mad.
I long to be detached from them, I can taste the freedom.

Again Lighter your reply hit the mark. I feel like I can make it to the other side.  With appreciation for you valuable knowledge and heart. seasons

[seasons]

Dear seasons,

This is a mess of crazymaking for you. It sounds as though your head is spinning trying to figure things out? Yes! But feeling a bit calmer.

Can you go No Contact with these siblings? I have been trying and want to. Then they will leave you alone. I think they would except when family functions come up.

I have had very, very little contact with my three other siblings for several years. Thats why I was so shocked they were back again, as a group deciding who and what I am. Hopefully this was just brought on by me not going to brothers party and the they will go back to old patterns, barely nc.

My oldest N sis I wonder if she could leave me alone. Her history was a dozen or more phone calls a day. Then a few a day now she can go several days without contact. Then when I feel more distance she comes back full force.

For example on Father day she called my house three times. First 6 A.M., 9 A.M. then the last one at 11:30 A.M. (The first message she was all happy like it was an afternoon call, next needing some sunshine so would I call her back, last she was crying, sobbing saying she was having a hard time on fathers day and I must be too.
I wont even tell you what my husband wanted to do to her. What nut calls at dawn on fathers day, ignoring that my husband is home and would like to sleep.I did NC with the 1 N sister, another is in her own world anyway, brother writes/calls only on my birthday and a Xmas, and another sister has just stopped emailing, because I have not responded immediately to her emails, and that was because she said she couldn't keep up with me when I did respond right away.


It is sooooooooooooooooo pleasant! I'm happy for you! I can feel your joy and FREEDOM.

They singled me out, when we were little, to leave me out and as the years have passed I still felt on the outside looking in and this NC with them is very refreshing, calming, and I doubt even any gossip exits amongst them, as they know little about me now.

I have been very good at keeping as much of my life and business to myself. Yet they make their own.

Is anything standing in the way of NC for all?

Maybe honestly me. Letting go of two brothers and one sister has been great.
It could be fear of what I will look like to outside family, close cousins. She would definately have a field day with me if I left her completely.
She would have me mentally ill and try and have a family intervention. I really feel she is capable of such crazy making.

xx
Izzy

My husband kinda blew today about all of them. He is usually very calm about the situation.

He doesn't understand how I would take all her/their abuse but would never from him or friends and extended family. I had no answer.

Thanks so much for all your help Izzy. seasons

[seasons]

Dear Seasons,
 I am sorry about the pain and confusion. It seems you are just starting to face and sort out a lifetime of pain. I think you are looking , facing and defining it. As far as changing it, I don't think you can, as we all learn, and not w/out tremendous sadness.
 I think you are fine, a wonderful person, with sterling qualities.
 I think you will separate yourself from them ,in a way you can live with,in time.
  Keep sharing and writing. It is a slow process, very slow, sometimes. I am sorry, Seasons.    Love   Ami
 

Thank you Ami. I feel like the past month or so has been like the ocean, some days are calm and others I am smothered by big ocean waves drowning my common sense. kwim?
I'm agitated with myself because I have learned so much through so many here, have received strength and perseverance then swoosh it's gone.
It's been so long, decades. I'm inpatient, slow................Yuck!     I want it now.........Peace.
Guess I need to find more patience and do what needs to be done, sooner than later. Thank you for your kindness (Ami) seasons

Hi Seasons,

It must be terribly hard to separate yourself from the familiarity of having siblings you "belong to", even though these relationships don't sustain you.

I know it was painful for me to face the utter end of my relationship with my brother. And objectively, he's a dishonest, abusive, sociopathic bully whom I'm much better off without. Yet, still...it was confirmation I'm one body more alone in the world.

The only way I've found to deal with this has been to very very intentionally (and for 20+ years now) created a substitute extended family. I have found that in the UU church. For others, it would be a different one.

For me, it's been a place to share my gifts and learn that I could display my weaknesses, and still be loved.

You deserve that too, and one thought you could try if it makes sense to you, is: All the hours of suffering and worrying I spend on the Nfam, I could begin to use to build a chosen family, instead.

love to you,
Hops

Hops,
I would love to be one of your chosen family. Gosh would it be legal to have that much fun and joy?
You have been through so many trying times so I take your experience with great appreciation and hope. You have made such beautiful changes in your life which shines through.
I hear the work you have put into making changes in your life for the better, which is inspiring that we can make our own life surrounded by kind people we find and let in.
What is a UU church, if you don't mind sharing.
Hugs to you for reaching to me. seasons

[seasons]

The great thing  - the positive in this whole scary awful ugly mess - is that your husband is on your side.  Try to remember this.  Even if he seems to be mad at you for putting up with the crap, he is really mad at them.

I'm not sure what you should do, if anything, about the dysfunctional family.  I think your heart will lead you.  I hope you'll think about focusing on your husband, though.  He sounds like a totally great guy.   

Your right bean!
He is a keeper, after 21 years he still comes home and tells me he is so lucky to have me and his three beautiful girls. It seems to fill him up with peace and joy to have these strong feelings.
He has a lovely spirit that is not damaged my N-niss. I hope someday I can give him a healthy wife free from bondage of my foo.
Working really hard on it though.  Thanks bean, you nit the nail on the head.
seasons

[seasons]

p.s.  I just went back and reread your posts.  Yes, I have been outnumbered.  13 to 1!  this is counting the siblings spouses.  It went on almost 15 years before I did something about it (thank goodness for my therapist)

It doesn't make them right and you wrong.  Your gut tells you their behavior towards you is wrong and you don't have to put up with it.

seasons, are you seeing a therapist?  Only reason I ask is I think the stronger the forces (ie the more people against me) the more help I needed.  And I shuffled through the therapists a bit before selecting one I found worked. 



bean

13 to 1, (((bean))) Takes my breath away.

I felt the numbers growing and it really put my head in a spin. Sadly you give me hope after hearing what you have overcome, wouldn't that be called a war?

Bean,
I have seen several therapists through my life.
Some were very helpful and one I saw together with my middles n sister, her pick, didn't help. I know why now!!

Except the last one didn't acknowledge me when I expressed my narcissistic sisters. Kinda brushed it off with a nod and went in another direction.

I would consider it again though, it sounds like a healthy idea at this point. Thanks for bringing the obvious up to me bean. It would be a great support system as I work through this.         
Thank you, I admire your strengths and gift of hope. seasons