Author Topic: Feeling victimized  (Read 1823 times)

LilyCat

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Feeling victimized
« on: July 16, 2008, 01:03:24 PM »
I'm sitting here in a few tears, feeling victimized.

We have a maintanence man at work (am I allowed to use his real name?) with whom I've had a cordial relationship since I was a temp 4 years ago.

We always had a fun relationship, sort of special -- but, I thought, always within the bounds of work. Right before last Christmas a year ago (2006) -- yes, the same time the N pastor thing began -- all of a sudden he started asking me about my dating life. I thought he was just teasing and asking in fun. But then all of a sudden he asked (a few times) how he could get on my "list" (of men). This was a shock to me -- I had no idea he was serious; I hadn't actually been flirting with him, I was just nice to him. In light of our work-friendship, I tactfully but firmly said the list was closed. He might have pressed it one more time, I'm not sure -- but I was firm and let him know "no."

He disappeared from our building and I'm telling you -- I did not see him for like, 3 months. Then he came back, and everything seemed ok.

Over the past few months he's been at it again, but not in such an obvious way. He lingers. When he comes in to tell me something about the building, he loiters over my desk.

This morning he asked if I'd done something to my hair -- which he's asked before.

I don't like where this is heading.

He just came in again with some environmental inspectors, and he was lingering around my area. I kept my attention on my computer and continued to work, didn't acknowledge him more than necessary or engage him in conversation. (Luckily I really had this newsletter to get out under the gun.) I hadn't been saying a word to him for minutes, when he came right over and commented on some plastic toys that are on my desktop.

When he left, I told my friend that I was really getting ticked at him -- but I started writing this post because the anger turned into tears. It's bringing all the N-pastor stuff back -- the trauma, the victimization, etc.  But -- some of it is real, toward maintenance man.

I've got to really put my foot down in totally no-nonsense terms and tell him if he doesn't stop, I will be speaking to both my management and his about his behavior. He has been hitting on a lot of women around here, mostly (or maybe all, except for me) the black women. I know of at least two in our company, and we've all seen him "helping" someone from the other building (not our company). We've compared notes!!

The thing is, he also lied to me. He said he'd never been married and lived in a particular town.

He's married, is a grandfather, in fact, and lives in downtown ... city near here. One of our employees who lives there has seen him. That's what really started me off when I found out a few months ago. I really want nothing to do with him.

The thing is, he comes off as nice and a good guy and all that -- and he actually is the only one who ever does anything for us (we have lousy building management). I ... well, it's a tricky thing to talk about men about another man harassing you, although I'm sure I'd get support here. When I told them about the possibility of the N pastor coming to see me, they were great. We had a whole emergency system set up. But part of me is a little afraid that if I say something, they'll start to think I'm the one with the problem.

I'm sure my boss will support me (he's on vacation this week) -- but ... I'm going to try to work it out on my own, document some things and talk to the guy, before I say anything to anyone here. I had told the office manager when he asked me out orginally, so at least she's aware of it. And we women have discussed him among ourselves.

Well, just wanted to vent. Those victimization tears are very real. I've actually been doing so much better this week, really feeling like I can put the N-pastor away in a closet somewhere, behnd me, although I need to continue to work on my contribution to the whole thing, and the spiritual dimension of it.

Agh!! Just needed to write it down. He instills fear in me, because of the pastor thing.

Thanks

dandylife

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2008, 09:41:27 PM »
Lilycat,

Your instincts are probably on target about him. He's "singling" you out and trying to make it feel as if you have some special "thing". But he seems like a dog sniffing around something.

You can get up from your desk next time you see him coming, and head to the rest room for a few minutes until he leaves the area. If he's still there, say, "sorry, not now, I'm in the middle of something SUPER important. See you!"

Continue to brush him off.

If it comes down to it, say "I am not interested in your teasing or flirting. Period." Put your attention immediately to your computer or the papers on your desk. Dismissed.

I sure hope things turn out okay for you.

So sorry you have this happening,

Dandylife
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"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

Ami

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2008, 10:17:23 PM »
Dear Lily
 I would try to do s/thing that would turn him off so HE would not be interested in you. That way he would not want to take revenge on you for  spurning him. I would try to think of s/thing that would make him run the other way.
  That would be my take on it.   Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Certain Hope

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2008, 11:18:09 PM »
(((((((Lily)))))))  You surely don't need this sort of nuisance now.

Who knows... he may be take your avoidance of him as a sign of uncertainty... or shyness... or who knows what.
Since he doesn't seem to pick up on your more subtle cues, seems like it's time for a firm NO - and no explanations needed.

Some pests are particularly dense. That's why I think that you may have to come right out and tell him, in no uncertain terms, that you need him to stay away from your work space from now on. If he asks why... you could just tell him that you're there to work - period.

I hope tomorrow will be a good day for you!

Carolyn

Izzy_*now*

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 01:28:40 AM »
Yes LC

Do something yourself, first, but nothing that isn't you! Like don't have all your teeth pulled, just to turn him off! If you are isolated? You didn't mention other people around... then be careful, and I wouldn't mention flirting--has to be last thing on your mind re him.

He is overstepping the line, your boundaries, your space
He is wandering around making you edgy and you can't concentrate as well as when you are alone.
If he has something to say, say it and be on his way, so you can Work!!

If you are not isolated is there "ONE" person who can eyeball him and keep a record for you, of times and length of times, so you won't be thought of as a troublemaker??

Good Luck
Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

CB123

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 07:01:34 AM »
Lily,

I am more concerned about you feeling personally victimized by this guy than whether or not he is lying about where he lives.  I would be really glad you found out about the lies if you were actually interested in him--it would be truly alarming to WANT a relationship with someone who turned out to be a liar.

I wonder if there is a way to look at the situation differently so it doesnt feel like victimization?  Being a victim is so personal--and he sounds like he is hitting on so many women.  He really sounds kind of ridiculous.  Are you worried that he might be violent or that you arent safe from a physical confrontation?

After spending so many years in a rather sheltered culture, I was surprised at how much of this kind of behavior I saw when I re-entered the work world.  Everyone has to tackle this kind of thing with their own personalities, but I am very friendly but firm with these guys.  Probably most of them aren't liars (or maybe they are), but their attentions arent anything I want to reciprocate.

I wonder if your feeling of being a victim is from feeling as though you have to get smaller and smaller in your space to avoid him?  What if you got bigger instead?  I don't give up any space to these guys.  Right now, you have pulled into your work and hunched over your computer screen, while he has prowled on the outskirts of your territory.  That does feel kind of bullying. 

But if you engage him when he approaches and then tell him that he needs to get back to work after a minute or two, you have regained your space.  I know that sounds kind of in-your-face, but I really do this.  Then you don't have to ask someone to rescue you, or explain to him or anyone else why he bothers you.  You just pleasantly and firmly tell him that you both have things to do, and you need for him to get back to his stuff and let you get back to yours. 

If you keep trying to work around his prowling, its easier for him to convince himself that you might look up and he might get the pay off he wants.  If you engage him briefly and then end the interaction, then he is left in an awkward position if he remains.  Unless the guy is a total social idiot, that will be too uncomfortable, and he'll go bug one of his other female interests. 

I don't know.  That's what I do--but think about it and see if any of that is adaptable to your situation and personality.  Don't try to do any thing to make him find you unattractive.  That puts the ball in his court, and it is really in yours.  I think the important thing in all this is for you to step out of your feeling of victimization.

Good luck.

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

Leah

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 07:04:57 AM »

Hi LilyCat,

Each time Mr Maintenance arrives at your desk there is a dynamic - YOU are sitting down - whereas, HE is standing towering down over YOU whilst you are sitting at your desk.


My thoughts are this:  whenever he walks up toward your desk - you quickly make a note of the time, and then stand up at your desk, and make it clear that you have to be elsewhere with just a simple "oh, hello, sorry you will have to excuse me"   (he does not need to know where, or need to know anything at all).


Elsewhere could be anywhere there is at least one other person - another office, the restroom, the coffee/refreshment area, your office manager's office, or simply go to another colleague to "engage in a work project (or none!)"   

Speak to someone - about anything other than HIM !!   And verify the time with them !     And then write it up in your diary/journal when back at your desk, along with your own noted time of his arrival.

Transaction completed and you are able to carry on with your work.

Thinking of you.

Love, Leah



PS.   Standing UP at your desk implies that you have no time in your busy schedule to 'chat'   --    also, Standing UP at your desk gives clear visibility of YOU and the interaction to all your colleagues around you.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 07:41:08 AM by LeahsRainbow »
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LilyCat

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 10:05:45 AM »
Thank you all. This is all very, very good advice and I am going to put each recommendation into action. (Except making myself unattractive -- I would like to be attractive for the someone else I haven't yet met!!)

Izzy, you crack me up with the bit about pulling teeth! How funny, and the levity really helped.

I don't think he's dangerous -- I don't think he'd actually put the moves on me somewhere, he's not that dumb -- but it's the subtle, insidious stuff that's beginning to make me nuts. I know I'm more sensitive because of the pastor thing, but it's unwelcome and that's the point. At first I didn't want to hurt his feelings because we were pals, but -- this has gone on long enough.

Nonetheless, he is something 6'6" or more -- very tall and big. Actually someone you'd want around if you had someone else bothering you!! He's never menacing, just icky.

I remembered that when we set up the emergency system in case the N came around, we included him in it (because of his size!) As our president said, "Tell M---, he'll scare him away. Anyone would be scared of him." Maintenance guy was nice and said he'd alert all the guys, etc., but he also got a kick out of it and "So, you've got a stalker, huh?" It wasn't funny. I was terrified at the time. (And it's still not funny.) Just a little too slick.

I really like the standing up/taking up spaces ideas -- they're great, and they will make me feel more powerful and less victimized.

I'm not isolated exactly, but I am a little (it's the reception desk so there's no one immediately here, but generally people within earshot.) I talked to my friend Karen who's the next person around, and I'm going to email her each incident. I can get up and walk over to her, too.

Thank you all. Most of all, it helps to have your validation. I was afraid that perhaps you would think that I'm the one with the problem, that maybe I'm the one who does these things, because of the pastor thing -- but I assure you, that's just not so. (I take my responsibility for contributing to the pastor thing because I ended up being very in love with him ... but he initiated it and pursued me.)

Thanks again. I feel much better and stronger. Will keep you posted.

The feelings about the N it brings back are really awful -- just when I had started to get a little better.

-- this is the problem I've historically had. I start to lose weight, then men hit on me -- and I don't mean that they politely ask me for a cup of coffee, I mean they start hitting on me and crowding me into corners and pawing at me -- and I get frightened and gain the weight back again. Believe me, it's not that I'm so ravishing.

I'm not going to do that this time. (Interestingly enough, both men started pursuing me when I looked my worst. Not just the weight, but not taking great care of myself and not looking great.) I'm going to yell out "Hell no!!""

Thanks again, everyone. SO much appreciated.

Leah

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2008, 10:24:27 AM »
Nonetheless, he is something 6'6" or more -- very tall and big. Actually someone you'd want around if you had someone else bothering you!! He's never menacing, just icky.

I remembered that when we set up the emergency system in case the N came around, we included him in it (because of his size!) As our president said, "Tell M---, he'll scare him away. Anyone would be scared of him." Maintenance guy was nice and said he'd alert all the guys, etc., but he also got a kick out of it and "So, you've got a stalker, huh?" It wasn't funny. I was terrified at the time. (And it's still not funny.) Just a little too slick.



This speaks volumes to me, that HE knows exactly what He is doing!!


I really like the standing up/taking up spaces ideas -- they're great, and they will make me feel more powerful and less victimized.

I omitted to share that I have found this to be most benefical for me personally, at work, and also in voluntary work.


((((  LilyCat  )))
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

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LilyCat

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 12:29:11 PM »
Thanks, Leah. I think you're absolutely right. (about him knowing exactly what he's doing.)

Going to stand up and fight, ha, ha!

debkor

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 03:15:04 PM »
Hi Lily,

I am on the same thinking terms as CB is......If he is not dangerous, as you say, you don't think he is... then by all means.. some guys  really don't get the message unless and I do/did an In-your-Face.. not interested....nothing more, nothing less...

In your face.. NO..STOP..is not mean.. it's a boundary... I said..NO...saying it nicely over and over sometimes don't work...your not his victim Lily, your just a nice person, that tries to do things with compassion and when they keep going, and  going, and going...yes I can see how you would feel victim... but your not....No means No..Leave me alone means leave me alone... and Lily still is a nice compassionate person...with an IN your Face... Read me... I said NO....and still lovely, sweet, very likeable, Lily, with boundaries of your in my space....Back off...


And if this guy by your job does not stop.. he will have consequences..even if it is just feeling rejected..because he is setting himself up over and over to be rejected... he knows your answer... enforce it..

This is his problem with crossing boundaries, not seeing boundaries, or not caring about boundaries... not yours..... IN your Face... NO.....STOP.. BACK OFF....

Love
Deb


LilyCat

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Re: Feeling victimized
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2008, 03:54:55 PM »
Wow, Deb, that is so good. I especially like your comment about this being HIS problem with crossing boundaries/no boundaries.

I no longer want to be friendly with him; I just want to have a business relationship -- eg. we need maintenance, he gives maintenance.

Fortunately he has several buildings to supervise so he's not here every day. (We have someone else at this site for daily stuff. He used to be here every day.)

In terms of being nice -- I'm trying to break out of this any way. I almost no longer care if I'm not compassionate or whatever. I'm tired of being nice.

As I've been re-reading Alice Miller, she talks about this change process:

(p. 16): "The suffering person begins to be articulate and breaks with her former compliant attitudes, but because of her early experiences she cannot believe she is not incurring mortal danger ... she fears rejection and punishment when she defends her rights in the present.

"At first it will be mortifying to see that she is not always good, understanding, tolerant, controlled, and above all, without needs, for these have been the basis of her self-respect. "

I don't quite understand why she says "without needs" -- it would seem to me to be the opposite. ???? But everything else fits. The issue is bigger than just the maintenance man, however.


...I think I'm wandering ... have been fuzzy-headed all week!


I also like your comment about his having consequences if he does not stop -- I really like that!! Thanks.


BTW -- I've seen totally NO action on match.com in 4 weeks. What a waste. Once I contacted the men who winked or emailed, only 2 of them responded. One to say he was pursuing someone else, the other just not a good match. And all of a sudden our company security system has blocked the dating part of Craigs list due to "adult content." !!!!! That's where I was getting the best response.

So discouraging.