Author Topic: Biology vs. psychology to  (Read 5651 times)

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Biology vs. psychology to
« on: August 30, 2004, 03:25:49 PM »
With all the advances in neurobiology these past few years it's not difficult to argue that the emotional pain and dysfunction many of us experience in our lives is a result of biological, rather than psychological factors.  Practically, if we could take an objective look at our parents' behaviours and compare them with our own towards our children and in other relationships, most of us would discover we are sending out the very same messages as our parents.  Additionally, aside from our parents' sending out dysfunctional messages, it's just as likely we were/are receiving them through our own dysfunctional sense of perception.  Self-awareness is the key to success in most inter-personal relationships.  Many people who have mental disorders such as Aspergers, ADD, "The Spectrum Disorders", are lacking in self-awareness or the understanding that another person can have a different perception than theirs.  They are incapable of conceiving of what giving their child a "voice" even means.  And that's O.K., it's not evil, it's the way they are made.  And it doesn't mean they can't learn.  Just like some people are born deaf -- if they don't hear their child cry because their back is turned can anyone blame or criticize them?  No!  The irony is that we are all genetically pre-disposed to the very same "bad" (and good) characteristics (genes) our parents possess so we won't percieve that we're doing something "bad" either if we possess a particular set of faulty genes.   The key is in gaining as much knowledge and understanding as each of us can, of how we are made, and what areas we might be deficient in that we are unaware of, so we can focus on learning those skills that aren't innate to us.  It feels much better to know why we behave and experience life the way we do, just like our parents did, (as well as our offspring will!), and work with that instead of blaming our parents for doing something "wrong" and feeling like we've been broken and need to be "fixed" (psychotherapy).  Labeling and accepting oneself as a victim of someone's behaviour is a life sentence of shame and guilt no matter how much therapy you go through.  I just don't believe it is healthy.  The book, Shadow Syndromes, by John Ratey and Catherine Johnson, is really good and enlightening reading on some of thes subjects.  I recommend it to anyone who is struggling to understand "why?"

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Biology vs. psychology to
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2004, 12:27:49 AM »
Your post provides an interesting twist that some may have trouble accepting, me included.  I'm not sure that I have any credentials to vote on biology vs psychology but I will admit that I have never thought all difficulty results from either one in the whole.

IMO our environment plus our genes determine what we are.  To me, this explains how one person can survive severe trauma and somehow manage to live a basically normal life afterward, while another suffers a somewhat less upsetting circumstance and completely collapses, struggles for ages to recover, if ever.  Much of it ISS what is inside of us and I believe we can choose our attitude (maintaining our choice takes a lot of effort sometimes.  It's not all that easy but it is possible.)

When I was younger, I used to worry that I would turn out like the n's in my family, that somehow, I must have those genes in me and that they would eventually emerge and I would beeee one of them (ofcourse I knew nothing of n-ism then).  After really trying hard to examine my own traits, I decided that I do indeed have some similar traits but that I have also put those to good use (rather than developing into an n).  I still don't know if n's are born or made.  Maybe  and probably it's a combination of things.

On one hand, it seems n's don't feeeeel certain things and are bound to behave in certain ways.  This could be attributed to genes inherited or to being raised by other n's, in an n environment. On the other hand, in the correct environment, could that person have been taught to behave differently and encouraged to develop more positive feelings???  How can this ever be proven??

As to inheriting emotions.  Same thing.  We could have inherited stuff or have been raised in ways that caused these emotions to develop, or would it be better to say, over or under develop??  As far as I know, there is no real proof in either department here but, certain illnesses do tend to run in families, don't they?  Alcoholism.  N-ism.  Whatnot.

It's tough to overcome what we have learned.  Before I had a child, I decided that I knew nothing.  I had nothing to base raising a child on (no normal environment to use as a reference).  This might sound crazy but I started studying people before I had children.  I started watching the way my friends (who I considered "normal") interacted with their children and I looked for people I admired and thought were good parents.  Then when my children were born, I tried to implement what I had reaped and when I ran into difficulty, I asked for help from those people I looked up to.  They helped me become an excellent parent (my kids and friends say so-YAY!).

But have I, or am I giving those same n-messages to my kids, that you spoke of, but I'm not aware of it???  Is my sence of perception disfunctional???  For life??? Even after trying so hard to learn proper interaction and parenting techniques??

Self awareness is the key, you say.  How aware am I of myself?  Now you've got me really second guessing myself.  How can I be aware if my perceptions are all off?

Sorry to say but you lose me completely with the following statement:

"They are incapable of conceiving of what giving their child a "voice" even means. And that's O.K".

Whew!! Breath of relief!!!  Nope.  I can conceive of what giving my child a "voice" means and I know I have at least done that.  My kids say it how it is straight to the horse's arse (excuse me)...to my face and I listen.   This is not something I inherited or got from my childhood environment.  It's something I searched out and learned.  Thank goodness!

And that's ok???  You can't be serious.  It's the furthest thing from ok that I've heard in a long time.  It may be understandable.  It is certainly fixable.  But is definately not ok.  Yes we can learn.  For sure, we can correct this.

And this one:

"The irony is that we are all genetically pre-disposed to the very same "bad" (and good) characteristics (genes) our parents possess so we won't percieve that we're doing something "bad" either if we possess a particular set of faulty genes."

Sorry guest, but the "we won't percieve" part is way off.  Unless we are all idiots, we percieve what we do.  We may deny what we do but we don't miss any of it.  We remember how we felt when we were treated with those "bad" genes and we can and do know when they emerge.  Are you saying we are powerless to stop ourselves from behaving as we have been genetically formed??  Maybe I've misintepreted what you are trying to say because next:

"The key is in gaining as much knowledge and understanding as each of us can, of how we are made, and what areas we might be deficient in that we are unaware of, so we can focus on learning those skills that aren't innate to us".

Yes, yes.  Figger out what you need to learn and learn it.  Then you will be a much better parent and hopefully not send out those disfunctional messages!  I agree with you there.  I just don't get how we can figger that out if we are incapable due to genetic predisposition?  Surely I'm mixed up here.  You must be trying to say something else.

As to not being able to perceive those areas that are lacking, as to having disfuctional perceptions, maybe some, maybe some.  But for the most part, we know what went on and we didn't like it.  We're trying real hard to improve on that.  It isn't a biological problem and it can be fixed.  I just don't want others to feel a sence of hopelessness here and think:

"Well if my perceptions are all off and I may not even be aware that I am disfunctional, then how in the name of holy macaroni will I ever gain knowledge and understanding about the areas that I'm lacking and even if I do, if my genes are wrecked, then wtf can I do?"

I don't buy that for a minute.  We have some perceptions that are distorted due to being fed mixed or worse messages during our formative years or even still.  We are aware of this and that is why we are here and why many of us will struggle to improve ourselves for as long as it takes.  We can easily gain knowledge and understanding about what we are lacking and our genes have nothing whatsoever to do with that gaining.  That is a choice, one that many here are working quite diligently at.  There is no news in your post.  I just don't want anyone to accept that they are so disfunctional, due to their genes, or their environment, that they can't even perceive it.  That's not fact.

Hope I haven't offended you here.  Just my opinion.