A family dynamic I thought of---

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi!

My mother was so close-mouthed around us, almost unfriendly, but then I remember how well she was liked  in the Community and was President of the (WMS ) Women’s Missionary Society, and had all her woman friends.

My dad was the raging  beater, but I remember how well he was liked in the Community and was elected to the School Board.

Now what I see here for them is that they functioned in a far different way with the “outside of the family” factor. No one on the outside would ever know them as I did. (maybe my siblings too.) We were told to never mention what went on in our household.

As I think back on this family experience, the one I left because of discomfort, I see that I had a life and friends outside my family. I see that each of my siblings, too, had a life and friends outside the family.

I see that the family together did not work!     

When I left home to work, I never brought one of my new friends home. I followed that procedure all the while, so that family didn’t even know who was ‘baby-sitting” my daughter.. They never met any of my boy-friends, because to invite one ‘home’ would mean it was getting serious. They never met my best girlfriends. They never met my co-workers/boss.

So when I was in the accident, some people were meeting others ‘over my bed’ /  ‘over my head’.     

This man Ken, who was my boss and who sends flowers and annoys the hell out of me is one that was caught in my need to keep work people away from my family.  Money/donations./a 1 day a month pay cheque…now I think he could have mailed these, but NO. He went to my parent’s house and met them. I ’hated’ that.

I ‘hated’ that!

Oh! Did I say that I hated that?

Yes I hated that. I was trying to have my own life and he broke the rule….that was only in my head, as I  never told anyone.

This preamble (   ) is to ask if anyone else here tried to compartmentalize a family, then the other people in their lives. Also to point out that my family got on better... away from one another and had their outside friends, that caused me to do this compartmentalization.

The get-togethers could be as much of a nuisance to them as they are to me. Maybe not, but I used to attend out of duty. I felt no attachment to these people I would see once a year.

Anyone know what I mean?

Izzy (thinking again!)     

[Certain Hope]

Hi Iz,

This surprises me. Not sure why, but I had not pictured your folks as being very  involved in activities outside of the home.

Anyhow, compartmentalizing was not optional for me, really. While I was living at home, it was simply understood that no one must rock my mother's boat, so... no company, friends, visitors, etc.

Once I had my own family, they were my life... which I did share with my parents, back in the day when I was oblivious to their dysfunctions.
So... I guess it was a case of - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

My brother (10 years older) must have really succeeded in this compartment method, because I don't recall him ever mixing his friends, associates, "outside" llife with family. I remember feeling that he must have been ashamed.

In what year( s) were your parents born, Izzy?

Love,
Carolyn

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Carolyn

My parents were born 6 months apart in 1908 and 1909. They married at age 25 and lived on an islolated (as in snowed in for 6 months, no telephone, no hydro, no running water) farm until I was 7 and we all moved to a more community-minded place(new farm, with amenities but I was frightened of the telephone)-- more church activities and things for young people.

I am picturing, because I never heard/saw Mom and Dad talk about much or be affectionate, that they found their place in separate activities in the community and therefore had a place to interchange with others. Dad with men, Mom with women. As I said they were well thought of.

***now picture these people, not likely Ns, but putting up the good front to be liked, then go home and work their kids to death and beat them**** I say our family just didn't gel****

It would have been better if we 5 siblings had hung together and supported one another, but we, too, went to other sources, our outside people who liked us, then came home to the dysfunction.

I see compartmentalization for those who cannot juggle too many emotions at once, maybe not even one.

In a book I was reading about 2 cops, ex-partners, but had been partners 13 years ago and made a mistake, allowing a serial killer to go free, and now 9-10 more people have been killed by him. The partner told the ex-partner and he thought/said,"What about me? What about me?"(being kicked off the force) and his buddy said he saw him compartmentalize at once (he knew him well) because he couldn't deal with the 10 unnecessary deaths, he compartmentalized---could deal with only one thought.

I then understood it from a more human standpoint than from an unstable mental state, and I understand it just happens. It isn't forced, thought out for ½ a day then put away.

My decision to keep my life separate from my family was deliberate. Maybe your brother's was too. Who knows? I might have heard "Do not mix business and pleasure" and believed it to be one of the 12 Commandments and stuck to it.   

Love
Izzy

[Certain Hope]

Thanks for these descriptions, Izzy   I've enjoyed reading!

Thought maybe your parents were from my dad's era... born 1920... but they're in between him and my grandma, who was born 1903. They grew up on farms, too, but seemed to be fairly close-knit familes.

With my own parents, Dad's the one who enjoys chewing on someone's ear. He's very sociable and involved in all sorts of "helping" activities within the church and community. Even still!  But my mother does not seem to like people at all. As long as I can remember, she's never been much involved with any group, doesn't visit with friends or share chit chat even. I think she is too busy for that... keeping a tight, controlling rein on my dad.

Anyhow, it sure wasn't The Waltons, was it!?!  Nope, no gelling there.

This is very interesting to me:

I see compartmentalization for those who cannot juggle too many emotions at once, maybe not even one.

And your example, with the cops, makes good sense. The one man could not fathom those 10 needless deaths...
and he actually wound up sounding quite N, didn't he?
Only concerned about himself...

Maybe it's the same thing in reverse with abuse victims who focus on trying to help/fix their abuser. The depths of the suffering is too much, overwhelming, so that gets boxed up in the basement... and all energies go into helping/pleasing/enabling others.

And for me, it's very true that I've compartmentalized my original family to the point that I don't even discuss or write to them about my life, or the activities of my children, my husband.  Just don't even want to expose us all to that virus... to be tainted.
Some folks just have a knack for muddying up anything shiny.
Not going there.

Thanks again, Izzy!

Love,
Carolyn

[gratitude28]

Izzy,
I definitely know what you mean. I could never understand how my NM managed to "fool" people. She had these groups (astronomy society, library friends, work friends). She was also very competent at work. It was like she was an entirely different person. My sister and I always wished she were like the person she portrayed at work. My dad has always been liked, but rightfully so.
I tried during the end of high school and some during college to bring people home, but it was so devastatingly embarrassing as they had such a filthy house. Also, you never quite knew how my NM would behave. During high school I pretty much never had anyone over - maybe three times I can remember.
When I brought my husband-to-be to meet them (we flew up from TX), she threw a tantrum and embarrassed the hell out of me. Then she made this huge issue out of where we would sleep. I am surprised my husband didn't flee at the time.
I don't know - to this day, my NM has friends that last for a while - until they do something to prove they are not worthy of her, I guess. I can't imagine why anyone puts up with her, because she is bossy and petty.
Love, Beth

[LilyCat]

Hi Izzy,

I know a little whereof you speak. Compartmentalization certainly sounds like an expected reaction to all that you went through.

I always felt this about my parents -- the "good" and respected people in the community, especially the church, and my raging father at home. I remember being so incredibly angry, for years and years and years, at this person who was such a hypocrite. As a teenager I resented the heck out of him.

My mother is such a different story. It wasn't until I went into therapy that I realized she'd actually done far worse damage, by neglecting me and doing a lot of nasty passive-aggressive things, etc. As I've said a few times, if you had asked anyone, anyone at all, to a person they would have said she was a saint. I don't even talk about this to non-friends because I know it's pointless.

Even when my cousin died a few weeks ago, my sister and I were discussing how to get to the town where the service was. She asked if I hadn't been there when my aunt (cousin's mother) died, and I said "No, mom told me the wrong time and the wrong town." Sis just blew it off. Snorted, dismissed it. Nothing. So, I say nothing.

I think it is unusual that all of your siblings didn't rally around each other. Usually when there's a common "enemy" -- either at home or at work -- people bond over it. I think that's why my brother and sister and I are so bonded (if I don't have a "real" relationship with my sister, we do have close ties. Hard to explain.)

We never had anyone over, after a certain age I never invited any kids over, because our house was such a mess. And my parents were sort of strange. It was always such a big deal to have a visitor -- they just didn't know how to behave. (And yet they did. Again, very odd.)
Ugh. Sounds like you've been through hell.

Hugs, Izzy. Hugs. You are so brave. And strong.

LC

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Carolyn

And your example, with the cops, makes good sense. The one man could not fathom those 10 needless deaths...
and he actually wound up sounding quite N, didn't he?
Only concerned about himself...

Compartmentalization to me, to use your words, is that the mind just cannot fathom some things (I could be wrong) and in a millisecond it 'goes away' and one deals with more pressing matters. The other cop was not an N. The way I see it, the 10 people were dead, that can wait, his and my jobs are on the line, so he whines "What about me?".

Another example is my accident. That is so severe to fathom never walking again, something long term, I'm sure I compartmentalized the attending feeliings. I had to think about my daughter (how she was, where she was, OMG she won't remember me, or forgive me for not coming home) canceling the newspaper, paying the sitter, getting my car to a safe place instead of being in the city unused (could be stolen), etc.

I will find out from my therapist on these things as one I mentioned on Tuesday he agreed would be one that would "zap away instantaeouslu' Are you getting my drift?

Now your original family: If you have no contact, no feelings left for them and have 'tucked them away' can you pull them immediately to the forefront? I cannot pull my feelings to the forefront, even about the accident. That is why I appear so strong? Maybe? about it???

Compartments now Beth I think differ, but I still could be wrong

Your mother is an N, so let's say she isn't for my purpose
I had work friends/people/boss who saw me one way. I would have hated it if a family member came to see me at work and one side or the other"spilled the beans " accidentally" about something I had said or done.

I didn't take people home as I didn't know if they would treated to the "Mom and Dad torture test"--sit there and be questioned about everything while I would sit and be embarrassed. I had to know someone very well first and have faith in them that they wouldn't spill any beans,

One guy I dated ended up at the farm, having driven me home early morning of New Years Day. His car gave out in the laneway and my brother was there to fix it and Jack was under the gun with Mom. I was a nervous wreck that anything he would say, although not outright, might lead her to know we were sleeping together. Nervous wreck!  Yet I could go to his family's home and feel comfortable and liked.

So it was my parents' ways that had me with different compartments that were to never meet.

and LC
another one with an N mother.

My mother didn't talk. tell us things, guide us in life, she didn't know how

My little brother died when I was 7. He was 6½ months old. He was sick for only 3 weeks (acute leukemia) was gone to Sick Children's Hospital and died. So was there, gone, then back dead in a little white casket in the parlour. My mom sent me in there to kill flies. (Now interestingly this came up on Tuesday and Dr. Sam (not V.) just shool his head in disbelief and said that was all wrong.)
No talk about death. Not a lick. Death is to be taken nonchalantly? (Grief is another feeling I cannot pull out of hiding.)

I can easliy feel guilty, ashamed, embarrassed, confident in work, and being orderly. By living alone, working at home I do not run into numerous personalities, and all work emails to me are fine.

===============================
If I could feel it, I wonder what it would be like to scream and yell and want to kill Al, and feel sorry for myself and my daughter about the accident. I cannot imagine.

Love
Izzy

[Certain Hope]

Izzy, 

Yup, I'm following you.
And yes, I can pull my feelings to the surface now, quicky... but it hasn't been so long since they were buried deep.

Never having had such a severe physical trauma, I can only imagine what that does to the emotions, but I think there's alot more to your strength than having those feelings boxed up, Iz. You had to make a choice to live, I think... and part & parcel with that choice, I think, is also choosing not to fall apart emotionally.

The practical matters that you chose to address back then...  well, doing that helped you to regain some sense of control over your life, I imagine. Makes sense to me. But whether or not it's necessary... or even possible... to feel the feelings which were never recognized so many years ago, I surely don't know.
Hope you'll share what the therapist dude has to say about that.

You wrote: 

My mother didn't talk. tell us things, guide us in life, she didn't know how

Same here.
You needed to be given permission to grieve your baby brother.. and then comforted.

I know how it feels to not be allowed to need... anything; to not even realize that it's okay to be ill and to need help, and comfort.
And I think that the real source of grief is way back then, Izzy... long before the accident.
I believe that's where you'll find it.

Love,
Carolyn

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Carolyn,
Oh yes. I've gone back to the beginning since I first started questioning why I didn't 'feel right'/the same as others when I was 15.
And things kept happening. After the accident was having my then S-I-L banish me from their lives. A huge trauma. Then I met an N/P. More trauma.

The accident was, by far, the largest as there were irreversible changes with that.

Love
Izzy