Author Topic: Not Being Very Nice...  (Read 1604 times)

gratitude28

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Not Being Very Nice...
« on: August 04, 2008, 01:35:35 PM »
I am feeling a bit of guilt over the fact that I was not very nice to NM this past weekend. We had a weekend with family for a wedding. Needless to say, NM praised people on things somply so that they would gush over her, and when they did not, she would move onto the next attention-getting behavior. She was like a spoiled little child and I completely ignored her the whole weekend. I had no desire to play into her games. She was unhappy because she was not the star of the weekend and we were with my dad's family (who are mostly very sweet and enjoyable people).
I could have been more kind. I could have deferred a bit, just to make her happy. I didn't. I can tell she is peeved and annoyed with me. She is trying to keep up appearances, because she has to.
I guess I feel very manipulative, because I knew what I was doing, and I made her look bad on purpose.
She really irked me when she and dad were one of the last couples dancing during the wedding reception because they have been married the longest... and I know that she just waits for him to go to work so she can email her "boyfriend."
I am proud of myself for not letting her distract me from enjoying my time with the family whom I have seen so rarely since childhood. I just wish I hadn't let her get to me enough even to get to the point of setting her up to show how ridiculous she is.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Certain Hope

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Re: Not Being Very Nice...
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 01:58:49 PM »
Beth,

Been there... always, this is how it's been (except for the boyfriend part). I could write pages, especially about the persona she'd put on related to dad's family... but for now, just one question:

Is it really possible to "set up" someone like her?

Doesn't she set herself up by demanding center stage at any cost?

I do know what you mean, really... and I know the resulting guilt of refusing to play along... but I think there's a huge difference between dis-enabling (if there is such a word) and setting someone up.

Maybe I'm projecting my own stuff into this, but I get tired of feeling guilty about simply opting out of the game!

So glad you were able to enjoy your visit with the other side of the family...
and I hope your dad did, too.

Love,
Carolyn

P.S.  Was she actually happy and excited about this trip? My mother has gone to great lengths, over the years, to prevent my dad from being able to see his family. Now they're all gone but one brother... and still, she does not encourage a visit.

Certain Hope

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Re: Not Being Very Nice...
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 04:41:29 PM »
Hi again, Beth.

This has been on my mind all afternoon, because it's this very issue which has so troubled me.
It requires a soapbox, imo... LOL

When you know exactly what the person wants, and you don't provide it, it can feel like a "sin" of omission.

Other folks, who maybe don't know how the game is played or aren't aware that they're supposed to be playing along, can simply abstain and walk away, without any burden of guilt.
Ignorance is bliss?

It's those of us who know... who know the N expectations, the rules of Ngagement, and the penalty for defaulting... we suffer the burden - and I think that burden is doubled by our own resentment of the falseness of their lives.

Somehow, I think we get tripped up by our resentment at the farse of the N,
and then blame ourselves for acting (in our own judgment) "spitefully" by refusing to give them what they want,
so that now we're responsible not only for our reaction to N, but for their very behavior in the first place.
But we do not make them do what they do...
not at all!
Isn't that one of the most fundamental lies of any abuser...?  "you made me do it".

Oh, I wish I could nail this one... it's on the tip of my tongue, so to speak... but the point is -
it feels to me like you (and I) need detachment in order to stop feeling so responsible for these people...
and then we can behave as though we were blissfully ignorant. yay. And then we can judge our own response to them apart from that unspoken, age-old burden of guilt.
When viewed through clear lenses...
you didn't set anyone up, did you?
You just didn't "fix" her mess.

A little example:  recently my husband was given a couple special cigars, which he knew my dad would love. So he sent a little package to dad, with a note. I didn't enclose anything... but I felt the dread, immediately. I knew M would be highly offended... nothing for her... but I refused to take up responsibility for her nonsense and so I let it ride.
That's when she stopped enclosing a note in dad's weekly mailing.
Supposedly it's because she hasn't felt up to writing...  but only God knows.

So - what I think is - - -  knowing how someone will likely react does NOT make us responsible for her reaction. The only way to avoid that sort of bind would be to stop breathing, when a person is as N as that... because truly, she doesn't even want to share her oxygen with mortal beings, let alone her limelight.

end of sermonette... lol.

Hugs,
Carolyn

Hopalong

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Re: Not Being Very Nice...
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 07:53:39 PM »
When you know exactly what the person wants, and you don't provide it, it can feel like a "sin" of omission.

Other folks, who maybe don't know how the game is played or aren't aware that they're supposed to be playing along, can simply abstain and walk away, without any burden of guilt.
Ignorance is bliss?

It's those of us who know... who know the N expectations, the rules of Ngagement, and the penalty for defaulting... we suffer the burden - and I think that burden is doubled by our own resentment of the falseness of their lives.


BINGO! You DID nail it, Carolyn!

Let's all

LAY THAT BURDEN DOWN
love
Hope, I mean Hops...nice typo, eh?  :lol:
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 07:55:13 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Juno

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Re: Not Being Very Nice...
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2008, 07:59:48 PM »
I just wish I hadn't let her get to me enough even to get to the point of setting her up to show how ridiculous she is.

Well, I bet next time you'll do better!  This story you shared sounds like progress to me even though it probably felt a little uncomfortable actually experiencing it.  We are very unused to not playing our role of boosting and supporting the nonsense due to misguided love or sympathy or whatever it is that makes us play along.  I tell you what, though.  As uncomfortable as our new roles can be--I know I don't want to go back to playing the game by their rules.  That would be like stepping back into a cage or strait jacket.  That would feel way worse.

Carolyn has excellent advice and interpretation here.  ((((((((((Ladies))))))))))

teartracks

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Re: Not Being Very Nice...
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 09:02:18 PM »




Hi Beth,

In real life if someone asks you to dance and you don't want to, it is OK to say, no thank you.  You just said no to the dance.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Be good to yourself.

tt




gratitude28

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Re: Not Being Very Nice...
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 10:00:09 PM »
Thank you all very much. I often think the reason this board continues on in a positive manner is because we really care about each other.

Carolyn, your thoughts are very very astute (as always) and helpful. Yes, just because I knew that the fishing was going on doesn't mean I am responsible for it. She was so overboard... At the wedding ceremony, I had a small tearing up period - the bride and groom are so sweet and the priest was so kind... My NM saw that and started sniffling so that people would notice she was crying. I just pretended not to notice her. She over flattered people, gushed, so false and silly. Especially as I know there was not one person there she actually gave a hoot about. Incidentally, she did call about 4 days before the wedding to say her brother was dying. I was very concerned for my uncle. I am still not sure if she overexaggerated for attention and, possible, as you mentioned Carolyn, to get out of the wedding... At any rate, she said he was dying, but she didn't even go to see him the night he might have died. She decided she'd "just go up the next day." My dad really wanted to meet us at the airport, and she tried to get out of it by saying my uncle might not get better. So who knows what is real, and what is a game. It's just like you said with the cigars - she might not be writing to "punish" you, but it might also be that you haven't even caught her interest lately.

I called my parents to make sure they had made it home OK. She was very carefully surly. My dad was so happy to spend time with us, that she has to be careful not to show him her true colors now. But I can feel the irritation in her voice that I enjoyed myself and got along so well with everyone. She has told people so many things about me that they think I am some snotty intellectual and have been avoiding them for all these years.

Hopeful Hops,
I thought of you because I enjoyed the church service so much there. It was Catholic, but so lovely and the church was just gorgeous. I think I really want to start going to church soon, as does my husband. I would love to find a minister as sweet and well-spoken as the priest was this weekend.

June (PP),
I really haven't played the game since I was a very young child. But I have learned to not take her little digs into me either. That has been a great progress. I am amazed that she even tries with me anymore. I think it all goes back to what you said, I think, Juno, that they are uncomfortable with us.

TT,
It's so nice to hear from you. Thank you for your kind words.

Thank you all again.
Love, Beth


"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Certain Hope

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Re: Not Being Very Nice...
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 10:09:34 AM »
Dear Beth,

From what I've witnessed, every single thing these people do is for effect and for attention. In your mom's case... alot of what she does sounds very much like "histrionic" behavior... the overdone flattery, gushing... everything in excess... and empty. My mother's sister was like that, too (histrionic), except the sexually seductive aspect didn't manifest in her.

It's so strange to me, to note that - even where their outright behaviors differ - you can just feel that it's all coming from the same motivation.
They absolutely must be the center of power and attention at all times, or else they wither.
 My mother will literally shut down when she cannot control the scene.
I mean, she'll go lie down on the couch and feign sleep or go sit in the car or whatever... because she absolutely cannot handle not being the focal point! It is pathetic.

She has a flair for the tragic, too. I suspect that your mother's statement about her brother's imminent death was more about chalking up points on her side of the tallysheet than anything else. Your dad had a family wedding... she had a potential funeral. Deaths trump marriages.
My mother used to relate, with great relish, stories of tragedy related to people that I never saw her even talk to, let alone have a close relationship with!
Like she cared?
It was just something to talk about.
The game these people play is indeed bizarre.
When all else fails, they'll settle for scoring points based on personal illness and suffering....
how much money can they spend on their treatments and how many doc appointments they can rack up in a week's time.
It's amazing to see my formerly stoic mother take this route now.
Really, it's like - when her sister died - my mother switched roles and became her! Very, very odd. She now behaves more like my aunt than I ever would have believed possible.

My mother can tell me, in one breath, that poor dad can't eat nuts anymore (his absolute favorite snack in all the world) because his teeth are so bad.
And in the next minute, she'll relate the detailed account of all the thousands she's poured into her own dental work.
A thread underlying all this is that she can't eat nuts, because of diverticulosis.
Bottom line - dad doesn't rate a new mouth. She does.
Like those Loreal commercials...
she's worth it.
Dad's needs are bottom of the heap. Besides, his enjoyment of the rest of his life will come from what SHE decides to provide him, and nothing more.
Isn't that how it's supposed to be?  :P


And I know what you mean about her "carefully surly" attitude.
If they were innocent, there'd be no need for that sort of caution... but they know. They know exactly what they're doing and what effect it will have on us.
I have tried to practice blissful ignorance in that area for years now... which is a big part of why our contact has been so minimal.

One thing that helps me to lay some of this crud to rest is knowing that...
when you get right down to it, N's really don't "like" anyone.
They can attach value to certain individuals, based on whatever purpose that person might serve to them... but they do not genuinely appreciate and enjoy anyone.
They may gush "love" and fake tender feelings toward those who can advance their cause...
but that's all just as empty and hollow as their own vacant hearts.

Thanks, Beth, for letting me share/rant here. It's helped to re-frame some of my own jumbled thoughts. It's also stirred up anger, making me wonder-
Will we ever be done with this nonsense?
Yes. I believe so. When we do like Hops said and lay that burden down.

Love,
Carolyn

P.S.  (((((((((Juno)))))))) It's great to read you. I hope you're well!