is this abuse? very confused

[willow]

Hello all you wonderful people

I have very recently discovered that my parents are narcissists (what a sudden flood of understanding so many things)
I have also recently been diagnosed with PTSD from my abusive childhood (lots to deal with!!)
and now I have discovered this wonderful site, where I have found people going through the same things as me, feeling the same way about their past and their childhoods and their parents.

So i am starting the journey to understanding what is happening in my own mind and in my relationships, to understanding and implementing this brand new concept of setting boundaries, and most of the time I am just plain old confused.
So after reading here for ages I have decided to post.
I have so many things that I could say.  So much to vent about my past.  So much that is going on in my head, but my primary concern is my current relationship.
I have become concerned that I have gotten myself into another unhealthy relationship just like all the others.

We have been dating for about nine months and he already owes me over $8000.  Some of this he has asked to borrow, and because of my lack of boundaries i always said yes.  Some of it he helped himself to.  When i found out about it, and confronted him i somehow, each of four or five times it happened, ended up accepting that it was ok with me.

So the first boundary i set was around money.  obvious even to my limited grasp.  we are financially seperate.  he knows i will not give or loan him a dime.
but i thought we could still have a good relationship because everything else about the relationship was really good.  but now I have started to question other things between us.  more subtle things and ask myself if they are really healthy.  i know now and accept that I have never known a healthy relationship, family or partners.  i do not even have a freind that i trust or am close to enough to talk to about this (because of my pstd).  I have enough frineds to hang with, but no one i really am close to.

so i ahve some questions and am asking for advice

 my boyfriend, just like my parents, makes "suggestions" on things i could do to improve myself all the time.  examples:

 - you should start bike riding like i do becuase exercise is good for you (i already walk an hour 6 days a week, and am slimish enough and healthy)
 - you are not going to eat that chocolate before dinner it will ruin your appetite
- you should get up earlier
- i cant believe you are still alive when you put that much salt on your food
- dont forget you are going to have to get some work done at some stage (what the hell!!!  i work at home so i work my own strange hours but I am ALWAYS!!!! on top of my work and up to date)

this is just recently.  there are more.  it seems to have picked up since i laid down the money law.  does this sound typical?
when i type these out he dosent seem unreasonable to say these things.  less salt in the diet is good for anyone.   but i feel like a kid with a parent when he does this.  i know salt is not good, but none of us are perfect are we.  is it ok for our partners to be making these "suggestions" all the time?  like i am somehow not doing it as well or being as good as he thinks i should.  or like i am stupid in that i do not know that the salt is not good?  i am in mensa, but i dont feel smart much
it is making me doubt myself.  just when i start to think that i am doing things ok, he points out how i am not and makes me doubt if i am ok?  i am so confused.  i do not know if he is being abusive or if i am over reacting because i am sensitive because of my past.

sorry if i am going on.  but i just want to lay out some of the picture.  I have had my own business for 8 years, i am very financially secure, own my own home, do volunteer work one day a week, and have a wonderful furry animal of 1 dog and two cats.
i work contracting to the family business, providing legal services.  so i am working for my N father.   (going to get out from under that shadow very soon!)  so in alot of ways i think i am a pretty sorted person, except when it comes to people.  i am constantly anxious around people.  i have no concept of boundaries and am constantly in unhealthy relationships, and i am having trouble getting more work to leave family business because i am too anxious to appraoch people, even though i could do a really good job for them.
so my issues are in my head, in a manner of speaking.  but the progress i am making is also in my head, in other words its not visible to the people around me. the troubles i am having manifest in me being somewhat socially withdrawn.  i socialise but not as much as my extrovert bf does.  i like to be home alone to do things like this.
my bf on the other hand is on his third career in as many years.  has just got "the dream job" but is still not making enough money for the next few moths, with potential for better income then,  to cover his extravagent expenses for the next few months.  he has no assets and has debt to others than me. he has no money to pay me back .  the little he has is spent on things like aftershave, taxis in beer until he runs out totally.
he acknowledges that he has problems, wants to get help when he can afford it.  this gives me hope.  is that foolish/blind?
but now with this new job, the possibilty he has to get ahead with this job, the out and about socialising the job has created that keeps him constantly on the go... he has told me that he feels that he is moving ahead, beyond me, and that i am stagnating behind him.  he says he knows i am dealing with things in my head, but he is finding it hard to hold onto that idea, with the way things look.
is this bad?

sorry to take so long.  though what the heck.  will poor it all out, risk boring you all to death, wait and see.....

thanks anyway for providing a place to say what you need whan no one in real life is listening

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I think those comments you listed are subtly abusive.  They cause you to question yourself.  Those are comments people should maybe make to a child who is not considered mature enough to make her own decisions (so maybe a child age 8 or 10.  But not to an adult.  You know damn well the effects of salt.  You can obviously manage your time... etc.etc.

As far as the guy goes... I don't think he is trust worthy.  He has taken your money, and then he talks you into agreeing to it.  Now he says he is growing beyond you?  I don't mean to sound harsh, but I would let him go.  Your self esteem and your pocketbook will thank you in the end.  
He may well acknowledge he has a problem and want help. This may be a long arduous struggle for him, and you would suffer in the mean time.  Not to mention his discussion of moving beyond you (after you set the money boundary) it doesn't sound like his committment to you is very strong. So, I wouldn't hold out hope.  

It sounds like you are a bright capable person. If you take some time to yourself to clean out the stuff you are discovering about your family of origin, you might be capable of having a healthy relationship.  But, I know from experience that it is very hard to sort out your stuff when you are with someone.  

Best to you

[bunny]

He owes you $8000. He has no money to pay you back. I don't think he intends to pay you back. He also feels free to criticize you. Relationships are supposed to be based on mutual respect and sharing of values and ideals. This guy has no values. He is a user. He has nothing to offer you whatsoever. Please consider ending this for your own sake.

Have you seen this website which has helped many here:
http://www.drjoecarver.com/

Read the article, "Losers in relationships."

bunny

[willow2]

(same willow just having trouble with this logging in thing)

Thanks so much for your replies.  It was such a relief to have validation of my concerns from people who understand what we are dealing with.

He and i had a conversation the other night about how he feels we are growing apart.  he started off by saying that he is very proud of me for all the changes i am making, and he loves to see me growing stronger etc etc, but  it seems to him that the direction i am growing in is pulling us apart.

i had the funniest moment when he said that.  its like i was two different people hearing it.  the old me was reacting the way i always react in those moments.  but there was a new voice in my head saying 'my god, this is just like the stories i have read about on this and many other sites.  
all these sites tell you expect resistance to change from your "loved ones" when you start to set boundaries.  they wont like it.

since i set the money boundary things have changed.  he is picking on me for little unimportant things, like not putting the milk back in the fridge, he has started using all these "you should..." statemnts and now this conversation where, as if following some formula as described, he set me up with the flattery and then subtle encouraged me to stop growing.

i am right in my diagnosis of this conversation do you think?
is that how it works?  it is sooo subtle and insidious, and then suddenly your eyes open up and you can see how obvious and formulaeic it is.  and you wonder at how concious this manipulation is on there part.

could you please tell me what you think about this?

thanks heaps guys

[Anonymous]

As for the conversation, yes, it sounds manipulative. He may sense that you're on a real journey toward self discovery and if he completely tries to put the kibosh on it, he might lose you altogether.  Hence, the subtle critiques about putting milk away, etc.

The conversation is just one piece. It sounds as if you're questioning the relationship as a whole. What did you think of the Dr. Joe Carver article on Losers? Anything apply there? I found it very illuminating. Unfortunately, many of the described warning signs are ones my ex-N-fiance employed during our courtship; an uncanny resemblance.

like i am somehow not doing it as well or being as good as he thinks i should.

This statement triggered a red flag because it seems to be the crux of how Ns get/maintain control. They subtly (sometimes not so subtly) chip away at self confidence, sense of self, autonomy and core pieces of who we are. If it's anything like my situation, you wake up one day realizing that the person (me) who came into the relationship has morphed into someone else entirely (someone I don't recognize or respect, in fact).

Does any of this apply to your situation? I believe we all have the truth within us and it's a matter of willingness to excavate (dig) to discover and honor our own truths, values and ideals. Because even after learning all this stuff about Ns, it all comes back to me anyway. I can learn a lot about the N pathology but the real solution is in applying that knowledge -- learning from it -- to emerge a stronger, healthier person. Questions I am "digging" for include:

Why would I allow someone to hijack my life?
How is it that someone else's preferences constantly take precedence over my own?
Why do I give my personal power away so easily?
Why do others' opinions matter more than my own?
How can I become a whole and complete person whether in or out of a relationship?[/list:u]

Don't know if any of this helps but I encourage you to listen to the inner "voice" that will guide, protect and steer us in the right direction if we but only listen.

[bunny]

He and i had a conversation the other night about how he feels we are growing apart.  he started off by saying that he is very proud of me for all the changes i am making, and he loves to see me growing stronger etc etc, but  it seems to him that the direction i am growing in is pulling us apart.

I think the $8K is what's pulling you apart, plus the fact that you're onto him.

since i set the money boundary things have changed.  he is picking on me for little unimportant things, like not putting the milk back in the fridge, he has started using all these "you should..." statemnts and now this conversation where, as if following some formula as described, he set me up with the flattery and then subtle encouraged me to stop growing.

A possible response: "Maybe I didn't return the milk to the fridge but you owe me $8000."

What do I think? The guy doesn't want to lose his meal ticket. I'm sorry to be so blunt, Willow. I have no respect for him and I think he is extremely manipulative.

take care,
bunny

[longtire]

Willow,

I don't see indications of any problems on your part, other than still having contact with this guy.  Do yourself a favor and break it off.  This guy does not appear to respect or care for you at all, except when he can use it against you to take what he wants.  It sounds like verbal/emotional abuse to me from what I've been learning recently.  Someone who respects you (and themselves) would never ask for $8000 within 9 monthes of meeting you.

I really feel for you about how difficult it is to figure out what's really going on in a relationship like the one you describe.  I am trying to figure out what to do with my wife of 16 years.  She has been verbally/emotionally abusive, but I still question if I am the one with the problems.  Reading the feedback of others in theis forum has really helped me to have confidence in my experience.

longtire