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1st post - Does the N in your life have "friends"?

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MADDOG:
I've been lurking here a few weeks and know this is where I belong.  I diagnosed my Mother as N about a month ago.  It's sort of a relief to finally be able to know what is going on with her.  For so long I've felt like it must all be me, even though my inner self was telling me NO!.

My question is, how does an N have any true friends?  My Mom is surrounded by people - her phone is constantly ringing.  I know my Mom well enough to know that people must "see" the other side of her at some point.  She's always pointing out to me how much she is loved and how many friends call her, etc.  I just don' get it. :roll:

Neko:
My N-mom has never managed to keep friends for any longer than a few years, with one exception: a woman who is extremely dependent on my mother for emotional support. They're like a textbook example of codependency.

I do know another N pretty well; my sister-in-law. She is always, always talking about her friends, saying "my friend so-and-so did such-and-such", on the phone to them constantly, and most annoyingly, she judges others on how many friends (she thinks) they have. Several years ago, when I'd only known her for a year or so (my husband and his entire family had warned me about her, to their credit), all of a sudden one day she went off on me about how I was a failure in life because I didn't make new friends easily. When in fact, I've simply never talked to her about my friends.

She makes "friends" very easily and uses their achievements and actions to her credit. It's hard to describe how, but she manages to brag about herself through her friends! Lately she's been going around the world: "I'm going to to [major city] to see my friend. Somehow I just make friends in such great places!" :shock: When she gets back she'll talk of nothing but her "friend" and how perfect they are. Yet she's never invited by the same friend twice.

People who don't know her very well think she's a fun-loving international socialite; people who truly know her stay away because they know better. Those who are currently her friends think she's the greatest and simply can't imagine how anyone could criticize her. It's almost comic when these friends visit her family, because her whole family knows she's an N, but they've turned dealing with her into an art form: ignoring her narcissistic nonsense and only engaging in neutral situations. So when she brings over friends, my family-in-law's normally relaxed, talkative atmosphere (what they're like when she's not around) turns into blasé silence.

I understand what you mean by not getting it... I mean, how can they find so many people to feed off of? How can people not see through it? Some seem to, but we don't know for certain since they're attached to her and no one else. She makes certain of that, and always blames separation on the others. I'm the first person unrelated to their family who's ever gotten to know her well and also stayed close to them. She started off by being sunny and carefree, very helpful, then began telling me how her parents couldn't stand having me around but didn't have the courage to tell me to my face, so she was taking a stand for them. "It would be best if you just left," she said one day, with a very serious, concerned look on her face.

She didn't count on me also seeing the hatred and hypocrisy in her voice and look, so familiar to me after being raised by an N mother. I approached her parents and politely asked if what she had told me was the truth, knowing it wasn't because I'd experienced acceptance and joy with them. Indeed, my SIL had lied through her teeth. So now I understand how it works: when Ns get tired of their plaything, they poison the well and have no qualms whatsoever about lying to get rid of their ex-friend as thoroughly as possible. It's as simple and disgustingly heartless as that.

That's great that you've found relief :) The "is it my fault?" feelings will stick around for a long time, but you've already learned the most important part: to listen to your inner self saying "NO!" Very well put!

CC:
Hi Maddog,

Glad to see you joined us from the "lurks"  :)  Good Luck in your healing journey.  

My Nmother had several "friends", but I use this very loosely as she is incapable of intimacy.  She has even admitted this.  All the people in her life that she considers friends are basically admirers from afar, she keeps them at arms length; they are the type of people that don't get too close anyway (astute, intellectual types).  She has never been able to communicate with men on any level other than in a flirtatious or controlling manner, including my father.  Since she never lets anyone "in", she never risks rejection so she makes herself safe.  And anyone that has actually risen to challenge her, she disengages from very quickly.  She has told me on many occasions that I am the person she is closest to, and she has told me things she would never tell anyone else.  The problem is, it is not true intimacy - it is unhealthy emmeshment.

My Nsister on the other hand, has completely alienated herself from all "friends" (as well as her family) as the years went by.  When she moved to a remote location in the south, she had one close friend there; then we found out they had a "falling out" and have not heard her talk about anyone else since.  The other two friends she had when she was younger, before marriage, she also had terrible fights with and they have not spoken for years (she insists it was something that they did to her, but noone in the family knows what).

She has managed to keep one friend from childhood over the years but she is in another state and they only see each other once a year.  They have had many fallouts as well but seem to manage to keep it together, I suspect because the other friend is equally dysfunctional (she is rather meek and needy, which is exactly the kind of person an N can get some needs met from as a foil).

To address your question specifically: NO, I don't think it is possible for a full-blown narcissist to have any TRUE friends - because they have denied their true selves.  I think the common denominator is that the people that stick around as "friends" of the N either are equally dysfunctional (codependent loyal N-ablers or N's themselves) or simply are not capable of true intimacy (not ever close enough to get hurt by the N) .  Just because the phone rings constantly and the N appears popular does not mean they are having true friendships with those people.  Any giving of "friendship" the N may offer would be most likely based on an expectation of something in return (admiration, connection to grandiosity, etc.).

Thanks for your contribution.  We look forward to hearing from you again.

mary:
My N MIL tries to buy friends.  She used to give people things....like family antiques but  even that did not endear her to people.  I think she has no idea how to be a freind or even exactly what one is.   She has a friend now that she goes out to eat with but my MIL always pays for the meal.  Noone ever hangs around very long.

Anna:
Welcome MadDog!  

In my family, no one was allowed friends.  I was allowed to play with other children outside only.  No one was really welcome in our home.  Too many secrets.  We rarely had any visitors, much less 'friends'.  My mother kept herself completely isolated.   I don't recall her EVER having a friend (or being friendly).  They were too below her I guess.  She never participated in any associations or organizations until much much later in her life.  In hingsight, it was terribly apparent that something was desperately wrong.

Thanks for bringing up the topic and again, welcome.

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