What would YOU have done.

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi
Me again!

5 of us siblings
#1 sends a note.........Dear, 2.3 and 4

but mails it to 2,3 and 5. I am 5

My brother is 4., who was in the Dear part but not mailed to him---I received the note--about her health, Happy Thanksgiving and invites them to dinner in November.

Wasn't sure what to do. She doesn't email  me, so I forwarded it to my brother and made a note that it 'appeared to be meant for' him.

so?...What would you have done?
Ask sister if that was her way to let me know the news?
..or was it an error i.e. pointing out a mistake to a sibling.....
..or was she thinking of me and forgetting our brother?
..she would never notice the error

#2 sister would never notice the error

#3 sister emails me and she might notice the error...my email address instead of brother's.

My brother now knows!

I say it's accidental! Anyone think it's on purpose, or a slip of the mouse?

Izzy

[gjazz]

I would have done exactly what you did, forward it to the apparent intended recipient.  However, if I felt I was being deliberately left out of plans for the rest of the siblings to get together, I think I'd be hurt.  I KNOW I'd be hurt.  So I think I'd mention it to the note's author.

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi gjazz

I live 2000 miles away.....would never make it......but she doesn't email me about anything....even a separate one to wish me Happy Thanksgiving, or tell me about her health.

Last from her was

"sorry you broke your leg" 

a year ago September and she was told by someone else-- #2--the sister I email every 2 months or so.

Glad you agreed with what I did.

Izzy

[gjazz]

It seems to me you really only had three options: forward to the intended recipient, return to original sender, or both.  Any would work.  One thing though, if you sent your forward to both of them, is that you could note how pleased you were to hear her news (provided it was good) and wish them all a Happy Thanksgiving.  It's subtle but says, Hey, I'd like to be included every now and then, you know.  IF that's what you want, that is!

[Hopalong]

I'd assume oversight since he was in the salutation, so you probably just tidied up the mistake...

makes sense to me, I'd have done the same, but sent it to them both at the same time...

xo
Hops

[James]

Hi Izzy.......It's been awhile since we've spoken. I haven't been on the board much lately but I did read your thread here and wanted to respond. Forgive me if I'm being a little too forward or maybe even projecting onto your situation my own feelings. If this is the case I can assure you there was no harm intended.   When I read your question "so ...What would you have done?" my gut level intuition feels maybe that more than an answer from other people here, this question might be your way of reaching out to share, possibly the deep pain of feeling rejected, and then finding comfort and understanding from your friends here who might understand how you feel. I know in my life I have experienced, far too many times, very deep pain from feelings of being rejected. For most of my life I denied this pain. Sometimes I used anger as a defense and found fault with or portrayed badly the other person, maybe even made jokes about what happened to my friends, silently my most common reaction was to feel even worse about who I was and blame myself. The truth was... very deep inside I felt hurt and found these feelings difficult to deal with as I had no upbringing in understanding this emotional side of myself. I find comfort these days in sharing more openly all my feelings in situations like this with trusted friends, people who will give me love, comfort, and understanding, take seriously all my feelings, all the qualities my FOO lacked but those that I wanted and needed so badly. I'm finding the more I can do this my shame and anger I once lived with dissapears and I feel stronger, more able to respect myself and be honest in spite of the cruelty on the part of other people. Empathy and understanding for myself has grown deeper and I have acquired a better understanding of other people to boot, both of which in turn have helped me make wiser decisions in how to make the best of situations like you describe and still remain true to all my feelings in spite of what other people might think. If you do feel hurt I certainly understand I would too....Regards to you,James

[lighter]

Izzy...

I think she just messed up, now that I see she's e mailed you before (re: broken leg.)

Your not reading anything into this...... is good.

Even if she meant for you to.

What do you normally do on Thanksgiving?

Lighter

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi James,

My siblings are all on the other side of my fence with other toxic people.  No Contact unless I permit it, even though they don't know. It is for my peace of mind because I have untangled the mess that was our relationships. My younger sister is the one who emails. and my replies to her don't give much info about me to pass on (as I know she does or the eldest wouldn't have known about my broken leg a year + ago.) My brother doesn't email but he, for the most part, is my favourite, and does remember my birthday every year.

The sister who accidentally emailed this to me, is not one I want to reply to, so I did what I thought to be right, and just forwarded her email to my brother, for whom it was intended. The content of her email was intended for the other 3, with the invitation for dinner in November......from her "would you like to come for dinner in November? If so I will set a date . love J."

Now this reminds me of when I was leaving to move 2000 miles away and she set a date without checking with me. She emailed and said that July 9th was her only day free to throw a going away party for us, so please be there at ?:00
I emailed back that we wouild be on our way to New Brunswick that 'period' so no way we could attend on July 9th.
She held the party anyway, all family and was mad as Hel* at me for ruining her day. I never gave it another thought Until I was told, by my D, how upset she was. (D was there! )

Izzy


Yes lighter

So you agree and good. I didn't respond to her because she didn't write to me. She addressed the other 3.

If one writes to me, I am/will be courteous enough to respond, but with only the information I wish to disclose.

Izzy

[James]

Hi Izzy, IMO it's a very vital and important step to protect ourselves whether this be done by distances or not returning phone calls etc. It is certainly a step in owning our deeper emotions and learning that there is nothing to fear about them.

I want to use the story you've shared of the your sister's party when you were leaving to make a point of how people psychology function and give a little insight as to why this sort of thing happens. It sounds like your sister still lives in fear of the parents, of course she would deny this if asked and has erected a wall of repression to keep her from the truth of her childhood. As long as she unconsciously lives in fear and denies what her parents may have done she will continue to protect her parents as she had to do as a child, simply by repressing her true emotions.  Children who are brought up in abusive homes are forced to suppress their very natural and vital emotions of anger, rage, pain, fear etc as the abuse occurs, simply b/c they are powerless against the adult and they fear them.  These emotions only appear to disapear as they are forced by the mechanism of repression into the unconscious, here they remain active but whose rammifications on the present can not now be understood. Because these childhood feelings were so forbidden resulting from the child's enormous fears, they will eventually and continually create scapegoats in the present or turn it against themselves in order to finally resolve the original trauma where these feelings were experienced. Neither of these options can ever work b/c the current target is just symbolic. Adults who have been repressed since childhood are probably not able to understand how tender and vulnerable a childs feelings are and then may hurt their children without any conscious awareness  of what they're doing. Children are the easiest scapegoats because of their lack of power.

What has helped me regain the abilty to feel my emotions and relieve the trauma for good is my understanding the mechanism of repression and then finding its effects on my life. This involved a childhood exploration of my real feelings, what really happened, and then having a witness to share my experience/ emotions with. The repression is what can numb us to our emotions now.

Anyway back to your sister. She essentially scapegoated you, but not in her mind. Perhaps repressed, is how horrible she felt at being rejected in childhood and then all her emotions which she was forbidden to express out of fear, like anger or pain, but still live on now unconsciously. She had set the party up as an unconscious attempt to find a different outcome to her trauma as a child. She unknowingly made you the scapegoat and may have created the old wound of being rejected which your absence triggered and now she can strike back with justified anger in her mind. Because her unconscious attempt is only symbolic the original trauma cannot be resolved until the childhood reality becomes conscious. Acting symbolically can never resolve the original trauma. Only by going into childhood and experiencing her tauma and associated feelings will eleviate once and for all her latent anger. No matter how the absudity of her actions are explained she will not be able to understand. She is acting unaware of her past trying to force unconsciously the same scenario and then finally release her anger and have her parents finally understand, own what they've done, continue to love her and not abandon her for her emotions. Repression splits off her feelings of anger and the events which happened. We can never really be whole unless we own all our feelings and fell good abt it and the block to this occurs in childhood. not now.

I've said it before, methods like psychiatric drugs, the use of meditation may create possilbly euphoric states which then can suppress our real feelings, religion, which can do the same along with positive thinking etc.may temporarily give relief to people who suffer from trauma but what they actually do is prevent hinder the person from finding their long repressed reality by shutting down the access do this which is our feelings. True, these methods may temporarily suppress our pain but it never will go away and will live on, now masked, but continually felt or acted out unconsciously, even on the body by producing disease.

I guess this does sound like a "speech" but I wrote this for people to have an inkling of whats really happens to create adults who can intellectually describe their feelings but cannot feel them.This is also the source of adult confusion, fears, terrors, all sorts of body pains etc. The early repression of our emotions becomes the pain we feel now from the loss of the true self(feelings) back then. I have been misled by many a therapist who cannot understand this b/c they still remain in fear of their own parents and are shut down. B/c of their own fears they will prevent most patients from understanding their childhood. I can finally feel my emotions again and it makes life so much easier to navigate and enjoy. I hope this helps you........... Regards, Jim

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi James/Jim

That was a very, very interesting reply over a party that upset my sister.

When I started examing my life to get to the root of my problems, our parents of course, I emailed her (Being the eldest who would have memories from before I was born?)  and we had a session of therapeutic emails all aimed at me. Then she said she was uncomfortable talking about some things, but she did say to me that she felt I had been the scapegoat of the family.

I have my memories as a child when all 4 siblings were against me, and I NEVER EVER felt that I was good enough for them. They are now on the other side of the fence as toxic people, as I said, and that is because I have posted here before that....................

..........I think from their behaviour, they are just as mixed up as *I* was, but never searched for an answer and hid within their marriages. Something I noticed about the sisters, when married, is that they would talk about nothing personal with the idea planted in my head that married folks never talked to another, like me a single sister, about sex...well I can only think of that, as I asked my youngest sister a 'sex-like' question and her reply was that she and her husband had agreed that they would never speak to anyone else about that part of their lives.. There's fodder for another insight, Jim. I hope you have it, with your psychological background. (I was never married but had my daughter and had left her father at the time we visted this sister for a weekend.)

I know of none of them ever seeking therapy, but I have all my life and that makes me the 'crazy one', while they remain silent about hidden, repressed, unknown reasons why they feel the way they do.

I doubt any one of them would understand me now, and would still take the high road, as she did, and blame me once again.

That was really most interesting that you 'saw all this' from that party story.

Uncanny really

Izzy

[seasons]

• I have my memories as a child when all 4 siblings were against me, and I NEVER EVER felt that I was good enough for them. They are now on the other side of the fence as toxic people, as I said, and that is because I have posted here before that....................

Izzy,

This really stood out to me. I remember feeling the same way about my four living sibling growing up. Three on the other side of the fence with one more to go.
Their is hope for me still.

I think I would of done the same thing with the email. Could of been a slip up considering you don't normally receive email from her.

Your strength is an inspiration. ox seasons

[Izzy_*now*]

thank you seasons.

Who is to say I am the most messed up person with all I have been through? I have though, as I've thought, said that I am likely the strongest of all!

I swear to God, that none of my sisters would have survived my life and when I began to think that way, I realized the strength I have, while they 'hide within their marriages' and I know nothing about them, nor they me. I feel justified in saying that I am likely the most honest of all, since they won't talk.

You will stay on YOUR side of the fence, in YOUR space, and not let them cross the fence (your boundaries) ever...but maybe with minor exceptions. I swept away ALL toxic people and it was after that, that one day I realized all resentments and anger had left me!!!! I was 'clean' inside. That's how I felt, light and clean and with room for better things to take up the space left over.

Jim is dead on in his understanding of this.

Love
Izzy

[Izzy_*now*]

more, Jim

Separate from the above is a memory of that sister’s that was revealed only a short time before our Mother was dying. 1994 . Sister was born in Nov 1935 and is soon 72, Nov.6, so 71 for now

Her first baby, a girl, was born in 1959 and J., when bathing her, washing around her neck, would have dizzy spells and feel as though she was floating over our old parlour… and she could see the doilies on the chesterfield, heard a baby crying and she was choking, then heard our Mother say, “That’s enough, Joelie!”

2nd oldest sister questioned Mom about this and Mom said that on Uncle Lloyd’s (Dad's brother about 41) funeral day, J. was dressed for the funeral and set on the chesterfield. She fell over and began to cry (Mom said she was 6-7 months old and Dad’s rage took over, so he picked up baby J. and was ‘beating’ her on the bum (padded with diapers I expect) but over his knee her throat was caught (the choking?) and all was stopped only when Mom said “That’s enough, Joelie”

2nd sister told J (eldest sister) what Mom had said and J. never had those spells anymore……but what I gather from this, is that she had these spells from the birth of her daughter 1959 to 1994 and never sought help?
========================================================================

b. 3 Dec 1895, North Gwillimbury Twp, York Co., ON (my father’s brother, Lloyd, born and died.)
bp.
d. 12 Jul 1936, North Gwillimbury Twp, York Co., ON
bur.

m. 29 Sep 1934, Churchill, Simcoe Co., ON (our parent’s wedding date)
====================================================

Now I am looking at the dates of Uncle Lloyd’s death, JULY 1936, and her birth, NOV. 1935

I am seeing that she would be 8 months old.

What to you make of that? (I copied details from our family tree online.)

Memories from a happening at the age of 8 months! La-la-la-la. La-la-la-la

Izzy

[James]

Izzy....I am in a hurry to get to the post office closes so I read you post hurridly and may have it wrong, if of course let me know. You sister if I understand was abused by her father in the exact was as she experienced while bathing her daughter's neck area. The body stores every single memory from conception on like it happened. It is easy to understand maybe her love for her daughter as she bather he possibly might have allowed this actual memory, including the out of body experience she had, to surface into consciousness. This is the way repression holds from the infant or children consciousness powerful life threatening experiences that if otherwise felt might possibly have destroyed her bodily organs and produced death. At the time of the abuse it's very possible J. was not conscious of the abuse or at least not to the extent her body experienced this terrifying experience. This experience may have been, even before she felt any conscious feelings, repressed into the unconscious in order to protect her. A certain portion of her ability to feel in general may have been numbed along with everything associated with this trauma, feelings and memories. I think your sister may have experienced conscious the memory of what exactly happened with possible exceptions of feelings of her terror. It's horrible to say the least and I don't doubt for a moment your siblings are repressed as well.

Children must repress there rage for cruelty b/c they are too helpless but the anger/hate is there nonethe less and it's this latent repressed hatred which caused damage to the self and others later on. It always seeks expression in symbolic ways unless the actual event and feelings finally surface. IMO your were scapegoated by your siblings latent hatred.  Scapegoating is usually directed at another who may be weaker or more sensitive, intelligent, something in this person who can trigger their hatred or possibly other feelings that can produce anger for instance envy or jealousy. Hope this made sense  gotta run for awhile.James

[Izzy_*now*]

Wow!

That makes sense. Jim.

.....and to hear you say you suspect my siblings are repressed, too, is so interesting, because  I see that as meaning that I am the only one who knew I was repressing feelings and who has searched the mess I called my life..............the whys and therefores...

,,,and I wouldn't doubt that if I "told all", I would still be the scapegoat!

Regards
Mae