Are we there yet?

[sKePTiKal]

Ya know, one way to view the lack of activity on the board is that many of us are making lots of progress. This is a GOOD THING, right? Being engaged more with our lives, functioning well, etc means we're less "stuck" in resolving the problems that brought us together in the first place... and that we are spending our time on those positive changes.

So, I wondered if maybe it was time for a "progress" or update thread... if the people who are still checking in but not posting would venture to add a "where I am now" post with all the good things that they're involved in, freedom from past blocks, whatever. Little things, big things, non-emotional things even.

Throwing this wide open invitation to anyone reading, to tell us what you've been up to, lately. I'll be back later to put in my update... that's because I'm crazy-busy these days. I sure miss the voices that have gone silent - HERE - lately! You know who you are... tee-hee!

[Hopalong]

I'm missing us too.

I think winter had a lot to do with how much I posted last year.

This year, between work and worrying and preparing for the legal things with my brother, I've been too low on energy to express myself well. For a writer, I feel remarkably reluctant to write much.

My general update, though, is that I AM better. Huge thanks to this safety net I have enjoyed here for several years.

But in general, because I have two friendly good people in my house, I am so much happier. Only hindsight tells me how lonely I've been for 10 years. Even my dog is blissed out (the minister gives good ear rubs). I'm not freaking out about men, though THAT'S ALSO DUE to the support and wisdom and caring navigation help I've gotten here...

I'll pop over to that thread and thank people more properly.

I am also not wanting to panic over loss until we find out what Dr. G really wants to do. Or not do.

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Well, Hops... maybe there will be time in a month or so.

As for my question: are we there yet?  I think I finally am.

Now my problems, issues, emotions are no different than someone who didn't live through, what I did. I'm still touchy about some things, but so is everyone. I don't go off like a buried land mine anymore - that's the improvement. Now, I'm just a smoker who's addicted to nicotine - I've finally gotten to the bottom of all the emotional symbolism... and my reaction is so underwhelming:

Oh.

Yeah - I still have things to work on. I need some social life; some friends in 3-D. I won't ever be a social butterfly; just not my style. And I've still got work to do on the relationship with hubby, kids, etc. I still need to bite the bullet and stop smoking - but I'm more convinced than ever my T's advice is right... I will just stop smoking one of these days; shouldn't force it. And I'm persuaded because as I'm defining these new boundaries of me: smoking is on the other side. I truly can go for long periods without them and I'm disliking the whole experience more & more. I feel I'm becoming a non-smoker, ya know?

It looks like I'll finally be able give up this job I'm disliking more each day within several months. Just depends on how probate of my dad's estate goes. At the minimum I own 50% of a business that is increasing sales/earnings in this awful economy... and the salary from that half is way more than I'm making at my job. Estate taxes are an obscene punishment on both the parent who pursues the American dream to provide a better for like his kids; and for the kids who have to sit helplessly by while the government takes almost half of the estate. I'm not talking CEO of Goldman Sachs level numbers here... just what someone who is smart and works hard can accumulate during a lifetime; a good retirement from where I look at it - not "rich" - but not hurting either.

I have gone through a big reality/possibility-adjustment in the past month because of the inheritance. My brother & I are discussing keeping the business going. Co-owners. And I've had doubts about this arrangement... mostly about trying to "do" anything with him. But I think it will be OK.

Sigh... and yes, it means I'll have more direct contact with my mom. But I did survive the last trip - and in hindsight, I wonder what I was so anxious about. I think PAST the worst of that.

So, I think I'm "there".

[axa]

Hi everyone

Am I there yet?  Sometimes I feel as if I am other times no.  I have learned that I have chosen not to be a victim anymore and in this has come a freedom and responsibility.  I now know how to live a life that is joyful and full and sometimes I choose not to and sink temporarily into a dark place.  The big difference is that I understand what I need to do to move from that place.  I still struggle with self doubt, fear of not being good enough, a strong sense of aloneness in the world but then so do many others.  I see my lack of discipline as one of the main weapons in my sabotage tool box.  I have become bored with living in darkness and pain and actively choose to engage in activities, usually physical, which will move me from that place and on the other hand I go there and ignore this new knowledge I possess.  Fundamentally I think that everything comes and everything goes.  I still question what this life is about and am no closer to the answer.  When this question rises I engage myself in the present and it becomes less of a struggle.

I have moved from being mostly passive to being mostly active in my life - this has helped greatly.  I have given up on the notion that I will have a relationship with a man because this is one of the main triggers of passivity for me.  I value my friends and miss the intimacy of snuggling with someone on Sunday mornings.  I love the freedom of not having to negotiate with someone else all the time and admire those who can remain in relationships/marriage for long periods of time but understand that this will not be for me. 

I have big questions about what is love and yes I can say it is about respect but feel that my experience of love, and much of what I see around me is really addiction.  I am ok, sometimes very happy, sometimes sad and always shocked when I look in the mirror and see a middle aged woman looking back and me and wonder where that girl went.  I have a profound sadness that I was not kinder to that girl and work hard to be kind to the middle aged woman.

Axa

[Overcomer]

Am I there yet?  Getting there.  I have a new job which has been the focus of my postings for four years.  Trying to get away from the enmeshment with my Nmom.  Also.......a couple of days ago after my alcoholic husband drank a nice bottle of wine (I had bought for myself......) and he had emptied a bottle of margaritas, replaced it and then emptied that one............I wrote him a note which said.............I AM DONE.  YOU EITHER GET HELP OR I WANT A DIVORCE!!  He finally admitted to me he had a problem and promised to get some help   (in the form of a book.....we'll see..............)

So, a new job and an ultimatum to my drunken h.............I guess I am getting there!!!

[Gaining Strength]

WOW!

I could write a book about your growing personal strength or I can just say, "WOW!"

[sunblue]

Hi everyone:

Admittedly, I have not been able to post much lately....but it's because of a really bad situation.  I literally have to work until 2 or 3 in the morning and all weekend...I do not have a second to take a breath....So I apologize.....I wish I could say I've grown past all the narcissism of my family....but lately I recognize that I've been noticing more examples of it.....I have a boss who is seriously narcissistic.  My mother has become more N than ever, and my co-dependent dad, well he has become more helpless and childlike than ever.....It is so self-defeating....so sad.....to experience.  And, my brother who I always labeled as the "healthy" one...has been exhibiting (or maybe I've just started noticing it) the same "my way or the highway" mentality....I still find it very hurtful.....and really lonely.

I always have a hard time at this time of year...with the holidays approaching.  The narcissism, the rejection and betrayal just is so much more pronounced at this time of year.  It hits me in the face how my parents turned their back on me in favor of the N "chosen" daughter.....This year, my brother has opted to make some holiday changes....which makes it clear how he feels.  Basically, his attitude is, "this is what I'm doing...you're welcome to come along....but if not, too bad...I'm not willing to make any compromises or sacrifices for you."  That's basically the year-round attitude I get from my entire family....I'm invisible....more like an acquaintance than a family member.....

So as people begin to ask questions about holiday plans, it becomes increasingly difficult to answer....In an N family, it's all just a fantasy picture....They may or may not go through the motions...but there is no family, no caring...no interest...no fun...no joy.....Just loneliness.

I'm trying to keep things in perspective.  I know lots of people out there have it much worse than me.  Even though I'm not a really terrible job situation, at least I have one.  Many others are in a position I was in for a long time...looking for a job where there are none.  I'm looking as well, but I know it is pretty hopeless....So you feel like you're a trapped animal...just like I feel with my family.

A couple of weeks ago, I did go for a "reading".  It was a sobering and serioius one....but truthful.  He said I have spent a good period of time trying to understand my situation and circumstances.....He also acknowledged that unless I lead it, no one close to me will try to understand or come to terms with it.  That is only partly true.  I know that none of my family will ever care enough to WANT to understand.....The whole world revolves around them...always has, always will.

So, it's been a difficult year.....and this board has been such a wonderful thing....Truly so few people out there in the world understands the damage caused by being raised in an N house, or married or involved with an N.   It changes your life....

I think overall life has just been really hard...really joyless.  With things the way they are in the world, it's hard to have hope....But I try....to keep going.  It's just hard sometimes to really know that you don't mean anything to anyone in this world.....When it comes to families, it's truly a case of the Haves and Have Nots....N is such an insidious illness.....

So I hope all the others here have been coping better than I...I hope they have been able to find people in their lives who love and care about them....it's not the same as family...but it's something.....

Holidays are coming....and I am dreading them....It gets really hard to put on that fake face...the one that says everything is okay...when it's not....In my heart, I know that if I put my foot down and stood my ground, the reality is there would be no one...What's left of my family....they would just turn away and find it easy to do so....

Oh well....does this ring true with anyone else?  Anyone have any new insights about N families....especially when dealing with impending holidays?

[sKePTiKal]

Sun, it's so good to hear from you! Thanks for the update on where you are.

Yes, I can relate to vision that if you stood your ground - created your boundaries and asked for what you wanted - that you'd be deserted; abandoned. But, here's something important - that vision ONLY applies to your family; not other people... and it could be, that you can't foresee everything as it would really happen. There's a chance that something unexpected would happen... for good or ill... and that unknown is pretty scary. Even for me.

But, I am doing this in very, very small ways... separating me from the dysfunctional stuff/people... establishing new boundaries for ME (we're allowed)... and it's really helping.

[teartracks]

Hi everyone,

In a general sense, I'm OK. 

The one thing I know for sure is that I'm not in control!  For if I were, I would not have spent the first seven years of my life a helpless, inviting receptacle for the seeds of pain to be sown, and seven of the last eight expelling it.  I can't change what was, but I can say unequivocably that it's not all right with me that it happened that way and I don't forsee a time when it will be!  That little rant over,  let's see if I can move on and give a short update about now...

Presently, I am in South Florida (Hi Beth and Ami!) visiting between friends and family I've hardly  seen for nearly five years because of the committment I made to care for my aging mother. 

She took a bad fall in January.  It was necessary that we place her in a skilled care facility. Early this past May, mid morning, she put her head back on her pillow and I believe she purposed to breath her last breath. 

One of my granddaughters went from adolescence to womanhood during those years.  In the interim, she criss crossed Europe as a missionary on two separate tours.  It has been  such fun being here and hearing of her experiences there and listening as she expresses her yearning to be married to someone of like mind, who shares the passion of her faith.  I'm reconnecting with my other grandchildren as well.  Not one of them is more special to me than the other,  but in a way I can't explain now, it felt like there was a hole inside me that could only be filled by spending unhurried hours with this one granddaughter.  I expect in time it will  come to me why it was so. 

Our family has its tough hurdles like all families.  We're all scrambling daily to stay ahead of the economy and uncertainty of the times, even so, those issues pale in comparison to a loved one diagnosed with an untimely and incurable illness. 

In a way, the board seems a little like our national, yea global situation, listless and without a defined direction...nearly out of juice. 

Just this evening, I thought back on my early days here and tried to guess whether in my ignorance about mental illness, I would have found another path to recovery.  I honestly doubt it.  For me, the board in tandem with Dr. Grossman's essays  went together like peas and carrots to quote Forest Gump.  Back then his was about the only site with reliable information about what ailed me.  Thank you Dr. G for being there! 

I think the best thing about where I am now as a person is that I am learning the value of living in the now. I'm not even used to the concept or practice, but each days activity  feels more like a one day at a time assignment, classroom fashion.   I feel little need to have much of anything mapped out for me ahead of time.   It's not a way of  life where logic is at ease.  Strife is everywhere, yet, I feel less and less strife within.  I have no doubt about its source...the Prince of Peace!

Love and hugs to each one,

tt





 

[Gaining Strength]

As activity here has slowed to  a trickle, I have been working to find another place where I can dialogue and be amonst people who understand this difficult place people with N families have lived in, a place that is safe and where there is support, and kindness and encouragement.  I have found a couple of places but they fall short in so many ways.

I am not there yet and I miss the fast pace posting of this place.  I am lonely and felt connected here but the slowness here is perhaps triggering those old but still alive abandonness feelings in me. 

I just wanted to share this here.  Thanks.

[Hopalong]

(((((((((((((Everybody)))))))))))))))

I love all-a y'all.
And I read daily in quick snatches, couldn't bear to give it up...

I am thinking of all you dear friends so often, even when I can't find the energy to write.

Maybe the enclosedness and introspection of winter will spur more writing.

Don't despair, anybody. To every thing there is a season and if you opened up here,
you can open up in 3-D World too, I swear! I know it's possible.

Fight for it. Go join support groups, therapy groups, women's groups, adult education groups...whatever it takes. If Nfamily survival is your topic or theme, tell it there! It is amazing how interested people can be when you share a subject you care about deeply and have learned so much about. I have found wonderful listeners even among those who have never been harmed in a similar way, but have for one reason or another, have learned to be interested.

I find one thing that helps with non-VESMB people, is when I bring up the topic first without much emotion, simply asking, are you familiar with personality disorders? If they draw a blank, I mention that there is a diagnosed psychological condition called NPD, with a short list of very defined behaviors. And that my mother has this issue, and it has had a hugely liberating effect on my life to find out what it was, how it harmed her, and how it affected me.

Sometimes if I start out with great calm and matter-of-factness, I find some people are very interested and supportive. When they hear me not panicking about it, and realize I can laugh and not take myself too seriously all the time, then the dialogue continues. Just a bit here and there, I try not to drown anyone.

But good stable friendships are possible both here and there.

Much much love to all of you,

Hops

[sunblue]

Hello all:

I couldn't help but post today.....I encountered a family situation and couldn't help but thinking all my Voicelessness pen pals would have handled this situation much differently.  In my earlier post on this thread, I talked about holidays and my N family.  I noted how my "healthy" brother has exhibited, at least to me, some signs of selfishness, "my way or the highway" mentality.  Perhaps I've just become ultra sensitive....but today we had a phone conversation about the fact that he has opted to host a Thanksgiving dinner, not on Thanksgiving, but the weekend before to accommodate some of his wife's family who chose to spend the actual holiday elsewhere.

While I was trying to avoid this conversation, he forced the issue of whether I would be there.  I know this is not giving of me...but I just found this difficult for me to swallow....While I appreciate the invitation, I couldn't get past the fact that he essentially made it clear that just spending the holiday with me, a few of his wife's family (not all) and his own wife and daughter, wasn't enough to constitute a holiday.  It brings out my feelings of rejection, abandonment and invisibility I've always had from my family.  My feelings, opinions, perspective never matter....and he never puts himself in my shoes or takes into account how I feel.  While I understand his desire to want to have every single person together, to me it makes no sense when it means being alone on the actual holiday.  Of course, I'm the only one in that situation....the others don't care because they will spend the actual holiday with their own families or others. 

I know I should yet again be the "good egg" and just go along.....but it just hurts me that over and over, I am dismissed.  He has that attitude of "well, you're welcome to come" but it's pretty clear it doesn't matter if I do or do not.  It's his way or no way.....just like with my N mom and sister.  Mostly it makes me sad because I know I will never be heard or matter to them.  Everyone has always taken priority over me.  He doesn't understand that because that isn't his experience.  He's always been blessed with many good people in his life...friends, a wife, a daughter, wife's family.....He's never been in my shoes.....Basically, I told him I understood why he made the holiday decision he is making (from his perspective it meets his needs) but expressed the fact that I wish he would consider things from my perspective once in awhile......But ultimately, the reality is clear....My perspective will never count.

So now I'm in a quandary....Usually I'm the one who caves, gives in, goes along, puts on the fake "face" for the good of everyone.  But this time, I'm having a hard time with it....I know this is selfish, but just once, I would like my opinion to count for something....When I suggested that we could curtail the actual "dinner" and have a smaller get together without all the fuss....or that I could host it....or cater it.....he would have none of it.  Again, his way or the highway.

Goes back to my original point that if you put your foot down, set boundaries...they will just walk away without looking back.....Maybe because I was raised by an N....but I just have no tolerance lately for people who refuse to compromise or make the occasional sacrifice.  I get sick of always being the one who does it.

So now I'm not sure what to do....Mostly, I feel sad and hurt by this...even though I understand the reality.....

Oh well, just thought I'd take the opportunity to vent.....I know others have much bigger problems to deal with....but after dealing with a N boss all day and an N family, I just needed to share with some N experts

Sunblue

[Gaining Strength]

Oh boy Sunblue. I only wish I didn't understand so well what you are writing about concerning having Thanksgiving Dinner the weekend before.  That sounds so much like my family.  It is so painful and so difficult to describe.  That is why I love this place - you can come here and write about something that people just don't seem to understand elsewhere.  here, noone is making excuses for the SOBs we got stuck being related to.  Thank goodness.  Sorry to hear but I certainly understand and empathize - GS

[teartracks]

Dear Sunblue,

I'm so sorry for the bad feelings your 'healthy' brother has stirred up in you concerning celebrating Thanksgiving.   It sounds like he doesn't have a clue about your feelings.  Those who have family to gather with often don't.  Not to fault them, it's just that they haven't experienced the devastating feelings of spending a major holiday alone.  The first time it happened to me I felt like I would die.  I think a large part of the malaise of where our culture is now is because practicing the art of reciprocity has been largely forgotten.  It's as if we've forgotten how to hear with our hearts.  The Golden Rule...who would ever imagine that practicing what is says in so few words could have the power to cure so many ills.

I hope you'll post an update about how you're feeling as the holiday approaches and how it all turns out.

My best to you,

tt





 

[sKePTiKal]

Hi everyone... I've been having problems getting here from school. Hoping it's temporary.

Sun, it sounds to me like you're standing on the edge of reframing this whole situation into: Here's what I WANT... I want a small group of family together on the actual holiday.

There's nothing at all wrong - it's not selfish - to want that... and to choose what YOU do, accordingly. We're allowed to want what we want; we don't always get it... mind you... but we can still want it. I'm noticing that in the past few years, it's gotten more difficult to gather families together over the holidays - and that's partly because each family unit has multiple places/people to visit. Lives are simply over-scheduled... and the ideal image of a nuclear family unit coming together again for the holidays is simply unrealistic - ALL the time. It's a logistic nightmare.

There's just something insidious to me, about all the expectations - very highly emotionally charged, too - that we've been "sold" either by tradition or the media about what holidays are supposed to be. People aren't different on holidays; family games still get played; travel is increasingly a nightmare - whether driving/flying; and families get scattered to the 4 winds - not everyone is local anymore. We lead different kinds of lives than are projected in the images/emotional postcards displayed in the media.

I keep reminding myself, that the "postcards" are just a fantasy. Reality is what we do instead - and to tell you the truth - for me creating the fantasy... decorating, trees, perfect packages, baking, cooking, hosting or being a guest in a house full of people (a house too small for that many).... just isn't pleasant, it's a ton of work: put it up/take it down, and on top of THAT...

it's boring. My "christmas tree" is a fake, lighted palm indoor/outdoor palm tree. This year, I won't be putting many ornaments up, because we have a new kitty, who is a terror - cute as can be, but into everything. I'm thinking I might just not do ANYTHING for Christmas that involves too much WORK. I'm not baking. I'm not buying a santa's bag full of "stuff" for people... and since both my girls are 30+... I think it's high time they started "doing" christmas for themselves. Maybe I'll have them over for tea on Boxing Day.

YOU can want the postcard... and there's not a single thing wrong with that. Go for it. Just do it.