Truth....that's it ... just truth! Who agrees?

[Izzy_*now*]

I have been Googling and really don't know the answer as to how basic arithmetic came about, but I do believe that the one and only truth is Mathematics.

If anyone can prove to me that 1+1 does NOT = 2, try.... and that 2 + 2 does NOT = 4, try!

What I am saying is that is all other areas of life, can any one particular person say that his or her own thoughts are absolute truth? For absolute truth, to me, there must be another party in total agreement, over the very simplest of occurrences! Not god..we never hear his voice!

I cannot think of another area and I don't like to be skeptic about , oh so many, things.

I am so disillusioned about my recent investigation on line about the USA's Moon Landing on July20, 1969. I was 1˝ months in hospital from the car crash, and my daughter was far away, but I knew she was looking at the same moon that I could see on my little TV, and also the real moon.... outside the hospital window...... and I felt a real closeness to her then.

As I delve into this topic, I feel 'cheated', for what that feeling was to me.... really meant to me... for a wonderful , momentous memory thinking of D, and it never happened.

I see there are many questions, and missing files, and unanswered questions, and it blended into my private life as well, as so many other people investigating shadows, stars, gravity etc. and there are no honest answers, is no honest proof and no one has been to the moon really. Prove it.. with all 498 tapes missing!

So where do you see the real and undeniable truth?

I see it only in Arithmetic.

How disillusioned we can be because so many people think in different ways.... will cheat, lie, steal, murder, slander, ANYTHING!  ...just to be right!

Too many things are taken on faith and that is not always right, with this "faux moon landing", the "debunking of 9/11" and the "grassy knoll and JFK".

If so many people in High Places can pull off these pieces of crapola to the general public, think of ourselves, just a single person, and how we, as innocents, can be fooled by a 'Higher Power'.

We cannot find truth even in the bible, since it has been translated so many times that meanings could be changed. We don't know if a certain starlet has a belly button or not, because of 'photoshopping'. We don't know anthing, but arithmetic!

My final solution about myself was that I was not the sibling who was so badly damaged, but that the other 4 would not face their goblins, scapegoated me, felt clear of their 'sins', moved forward to in marriagres, and I was left behind, alone, scapegoated and for 69˝ years felt that I was the 'messed up one'.

I now believe that I wasn't..that I was used and it messed me up...but I got away...thought it out... and I see they are the ones who will not face certain facts, but I have no proof and never will have.

I also has a picture come to mind the other day............ that after my accident, wouldn't it have been such a nice gesture if my parents and 4 siblings came to see me in hospital, as a family, all of us, and discuss the severity of the situation and possible outcome(s)!!!!!

I can see it as what some families might do, but not mine.

Where is your truth? From what you feel? know? have been told? what you have seen? Pretty dam*ed hard to tell.

Back to Apollo 13 movie

Izzy

Agree or not?

[Izzy_*now*]

Truth!

I am surprised that no one here has an opinion on TRUTH!

I sent the same post to my daughter and …I Love this!! Her reply …

“I absolutely LOVE this topic. There was once an installation at the science centre called "A Question of Truth" that the kids were bored out of their minds at and wanted to go to the fun stuff, so I actually went back by myself once on a school day to spend some real time there. I wonder if I can find my notes from it? Anyway, I'm just up with a cough... quite sick with a cold...and it's almost 4:30 am, so I’m going to go back to bed, and will find some time for some discourse on this topic later.”
I’ve always been one who wanted an answer.

The following will give you the answer faster than I became aware.

Everytime I went into the bathroom, there was a new little bunch of ‘back ovals” on the floor. I had no idea what they were. I wondered! Dead little bugs? On further inspection? NO ! What then ? and I would clean up, dump and flush.

Another day as I was combing/styling my hair, as I threw out yet another bobby pin that lost its tip, I was thinking back to when I bought this package and observed how many were left. This morning, as I tossed yet another that had lost a ‘tip’, the answer came to me.

Crumbs, etc. fall onto my lap, even bobby pin tips, and when I transfer, (chair to toilet) my lap “dumps whatever on the floor”

AHA! No bugs! Bobby pin tops!
I can sleep tonight! and die in peace!

All in fun!
Izzy

[teartracks]

Hi Iz,

So where do you see the real and undeniable truth?

I see it only in Arithmetic.

I like the subject of your thread.  Not everyone is into mathmatics or science or truth for that matter.  I thought I remembered hearing Stephen Hawking say that he thought if there were a God he would simply be a mathmatical equation.  So I searched to see if my recall was correct.  Here are three quotes (in no particular order) from his book A Brief History of Time   Is his belief anywhere close to your own?

"It is difficult to discuss the beginning of the universe without mentioning the concept of God. My work on the origin of the universe is on the borderline between science and religion, but I try to stay on the scientific side of the border.  It is quite possible that God acts in ways that cannot be described by scientific laws, but in that case, one would just have to go by personal belief."

"Even if there is only one possible unified theory [here he's talking about the unification of quantum mechanics with an understanding of gravity], it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?"(p. 174).

"These laws may have originally been decreed by God, but it appears that he has since left the universe to evolve according to them and does not now intervene in it" (p.122).

More commentary on the subject at:  http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9501/bigbang2.html

I like scientific discussions.   God's truth doesn't exclude scientific truth, but I think scientific truth is simply a part of God's truth,  that's how I see it.

tt

[lighter]

I have been Googling and really don't know the answer as to how basic arithmetic came about, but I do believe that the one and only truth is Mathematics.

Izzy

Have you seen the movie "Good Will Hunting?"

Lighter

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi lighter
Yes! I have seen the movie--what was in it about this? Please?
Izzy

[Izzy_*now*]

hi tt

This:
"It is difficult to discuss the beginning of the universe without mentioning the concept of God. My work on the origin of the universe is on the borderline between science and religion, but I try to stay on the scientific side of the border.  It is quite possible that God acts in ways that cannot be described by scientific laws, but in that case, one would just have to go by personal belief."

is generally where my mind takes me when questioing if there is a G_d!

I am not a great scientist or mathematician, I am a bookkeeper. I am so suited to that job, as there is only one answer in balancing my books.

I have always wanted answers, as I've said, so anyone else's opinion is just that, and he.she is entitled to it as their truth and I have my truth and my D has her truth. I am also more interested in relationships whereby there is feedback in person or in posts or email etc. G_d has never written me a letter.

I go with my gut and do things for MY own reasons, the ones that make me the most comfortable with myself, after 69 years ............thinking I was always the wrong one and, becoming a little more in tune with family, that I just might have been right many times, but 6 against 1 is unfair, so I took the easy way out and went "with the crowd" that I was wrong, reaching the point that I no longer want any arguments for which I don't know the G-d's honest truth.   


Izzy

[Izzy_*now*]

I also, re "truthy" things, do not believe in psychics, any meaning in dreams etc.

As for my dreams I know why they happen...just a passing thought or 2 while awake and it turns into a story in my dreams.

For instance, if you remember my ex-boss Ken, who said no one would ever want me now, but he did, called last week. I didn't answer the phone, He never leaves a message & I had just talked for 2 hours to a friend back East. It was her birthday. I didn't need 2 hours of boring Ken.

Then I had a dream about him--he was in bed with me and I was wondering how he got there and I kicked and pushed and yealled at him to "get the H. out!....he tried the sex thing the day I returned from hospital. Ken was a passing thought re the phone call, and why I have no real respect for him was what he said and tried to pull.

I sure don't take it as meaning anthing other than a story about the above.
izzy

[Hopalong]

Hi Izz hon,

Love you.

I can relate to part of this!

The part about the bobby pin bits and the figuring-out thereof.

All the rest...I am math-phobic and philosophy gives me a headache.

But I can so relate to the concrete, like bobby pin bits.

You are one clever woman, you know? It's SO NEAT that your D shares
your type of mind...lucky thing.

Much affection,
Hops

[lighter]

I don't think everything about math is simple or easy to figure out.... that's all

As for unquestionable truths......

I know I love my children.

That's a truth, for me.


Lighter

[gratitude28]

Izzy,
This is a topic I also relate to and puzzle about so often. Am I right in anything I do? How do I know if I am wrong? If many people are for something that I think is wrong, is it OK for me to still think it is wrong? Is there something wrong with me if I do?
As for math, I know there is a way to refute the concrete problems you put here, but I do not know how to challenge you on them.
There are no absolutes. Period. Wait - wasn't that an absolute??? So that statement must be untrue.
Help!!!!
Beth

[Izzy_*now*]

Hiya Hops,

Thanks. Like you I just cannot wrap my mind around certain theories. This is why I asked this question of where is anybody's truth, plus my daughter's and have had a wonderful respone to study before I reply

See the attached image, a formula, What does it mean? I don't know and I don't need to know.

I expect that on this board we are searching for our own personal truths and our areas of expertise.

I was good at Arithmetic and Math through high school and became a bookeeper. Perhaps I knew away back then, that it made sense, whereby many other things were beyond my grasp. I, as well, like Spelling and Grammar.

Physics & Chemistry were my worst. History seemed like rehashing the past....and now I am doing that, only about me to understand me. Geography is now useless because many countries disappeared and are replaced with new names.

Without guidance from an elder, I suggest I took easy ways out, that is, comfortable, and likely still do it.
 
I can tend to agree and understand, as with the first item in tt's post, but is it my truth? I agree that it could be possible and impossible and I would never go around on tour talking about it, because I don't know.


Hi lighter

The image below is for you as well. This stage of Math is beyond me. I had just high school education, and had been thinking about how I knew I was to go to school to learn....the 3 Rs. Well I did learn Reading and 'Riting and 'Rithmetic., and I became a assistant to the teacher in these, with kids older than I and a few grades behind. Say Grade 8, I was 11, one of my school chums was 13 and in Grade 7, her older brother was 15 and in Grade 5. Her eldest brother was  17 and in Grade 8 with me.

But I mentioned in a post sometime ago, that I was at the outside of the school, age 5, and cried. My reason was because I couldn't go in because I did't know anything. My 2 older sisters ridiculed me, saying I was stupid because school is where I would learn something.

We can state out own personal inner truths and no one can refute that, except G_d.


Hiya Beth

This is a topic I also relate to and puzzle about so often. Am I right in anything I do? How do I know if I am wrong? If many people are for something that I think is wrong, is it OK for me to still think it is wrong? Is there something wrong with me if I do?

Wow! That is me. I couild have written that!
There are no absolutes!        How about "Maybe there are no absolutes." Who invented 1+1=2?

This, from tt's post as well:

"These laws may have originally been decreed by God, but it appears that he has since left the universe to evolve according to them and does not now intervene in it" (p.122).

  --

--can make sense to me as well, because of this Earth and all the tragedies therein.

More that I know that is not true is "magic acts", and more that I feel is that absolutely no one can know another 100%, until one has walked in the other's shoes. I was researching something on the Internet and one site said one thing, another said the opposite...I think it was about my dry skin condition.

Loved your..HELP!!!

Izzy

[gratitude28]

Izzy,
You know what is crazy to me too? When a mathemetician or scientist "discovers" something new. Like the theory of relativity... How could those things BE THERE and we cannot fathom them? How many other things are there that we have no idea exist???????
Love, Beth

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi CB,

A very interesting response.
In my quest to 'set things right' in my head, I have my truths and my unknowns. I, too, have changed over the years. All those years were a search for me, and why I have ticked along being the 'outcast/black sheep' of the family.

From my original post
My final solution about myself was that I was not the sibling who was so badly damaged, but that the other 4 would not face their goblins, scapegoated me, felt cleared of their 'sins', moved forward into marriages, and I was left behind, alone, scapegoated and for 69˝ years felt that I was the 'messed up one'.

I now believe that I wasn't..that I was used and it messed me up...but I got away...thought it out... and I see they are the ones who will not face certain facts, but I have no proof and never will have.

This so-called revelation makes more sense to me, knowing certain behaviours on their part.

There is an incident I have to believe because it came from a Helicopter Rescue Pilot in Iceland.

In 2003, when my grandson was 17, he was sailing to Europe with his Uncle Tom, his N father's younger brother. The vessel was dilapitated inside, but not the outside view. They were caught in a storm off the Icelandic Coast and they 'abandoned ship' right after g'son used the satellite phone to call his Dad with a Mayday and co-ordinates. Then the phone died.

Now I have read the researched book. His father, my ex son-in-law, took the call and the co-ordinates. He then went into 'overload and collapse' (as my therpist termed it...he read the book) but first called his girlfriend and asked her to do something for him. He gave her the co-ordinates and she called the Coast Guard. (We now have 3 sets of co-ordinates, G'son's, his father's , the girfriend's, and then the satellite phone records. NOT ONE was right.... except perhaps with the 2 story high waves sloshing the 2 of them in the freezing water, and moving them about...... my thought, but a big ocean?

The boat was already on its way to the ocean floor, and g'son had lost his survival pack with flashlight, as well, and floated around for 1˝ hours holding onto his uncle's dead body, & the Rescue team was heading out to the Ocean. Suddenly the pilots saw a flash of light, that blinked 3 times, then no more, but they locked in the co-ordinates of that, and continued  to check the reported co-ordinates. Nothing at all 4.

They chose then to return to the blinking lights, and they spotted my g'son and his uncle.

Why would the pilot lie? No reason that I can see..........just and incident reported by a stranger that I take on faith.

Izzy

[Izzy_*now*]

Right Beth,

But I know 'theory of relativity'.

Since I am older now, I resemble my mother so I know she is a relative. Now do you understand?

About one of Newton's law of motion, "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" , there are ways to prove it ourselves.

I try to not think of an apple falling from a tree, just to do the opposite and fall back up into the tree. There must be two separate things, like the apple and the ground (and that leads to gravity, but I'd rather make fun of these things than to argue with the scientists. I have no argument.)

xx
Izzy

[finding peace]

Hi Izzy,

I missed your posts for awhile there.  Glad to see you posting again!

I really liked your question.  I am not a mathematician, but my H is (he is really, really smart, IQ clocked at > 150).  Calculus is easier for him than 1+1=2 is for me.  So I asked him.  He said that the basic precepts of math are true; but math can be subjective.  We then got into a discussion about math systems that are on different bases (I forget what he called them).

Anyway, here was the example he gave me.  Suppose you have 11 apples in front of you.

In the commonly used 10-base math system, this would = 11 apples.

In an 8-base math system, it would = 13 apples

In a 4-base math system it would = 23 apples and in a binary system it would be 1011 apples, if I’ve done the math correctly.

Here's how it works, the As below are apples:
 
                          A1       A2     A3     A4     A5     A6     A7     A8     A9    A10     A11
10-base      0        1         2       3        4       5      6       7       8        9      10      11
8-base        0        1         2       3        4       5      6       7      10      11      12     13
4-base        0        1         2       3       10     11    12     13      20      21      22     23
binary         0        1        10     11      100    101  110   111   1000   1001  1010   1011

Now, all that being said – there is still an absolute mathematical truth …. no matter what you call it, you still have the same quantity of apples in front of you. 

It was a fun discussion, it was almost as though the math proved your point!  Ha!

Math at its most basic precepts is true/the 3-D world is governed by physical (mathematical) truths  – it is the interpretation, or the theoretical spin one puts on it that makes it 6 and ˝ dozen of the other.

I go round and round with perceptions, mine, how I perceived other’s perceptions, how others come up with what I perceive their perception to be.  Sometimes I have a really hard time figuring this out – and even then, when I think I have it figured out – my perception can be totally off, absolutely spot on, or partially true.

So, I am always wondering ….. is my perception accurate, inaccurate, somewhere in between? 

Usually it is out in left field – ha!

Just kidding … I think what I have found is that there are some who I can trust in 3D (not many – I have a very hard time trusting) and who I can bounce my perceptions off of and get their take on it (my H being one) – we don’t always agree, but we can discuss it civilly …. which is a blessing in and of itself (never had that as a child).

Great topic Iz.  Thanks!

PS - My H lost me in the hexadecimal system ..... here is how it goes apparently ….they substitute letters for numbers ...

0   1    2    3    4    5    6    7     8     9    10   A  B C D E F 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F 20 2F…  

They do use these systems as you probably know being a computer guru .... computers are based on binary (2-digits, 0 and 1, true/false).  The hexadecimal system is used as a short hand for binary as the #s get long very quickly.

Sorry for the long ramble - we had a great discussion from your topic - thanks Iz!