Ahh PR and Izzy and who ever wants to read

[debkor]

PR your post about your friend contacting you from childhood just recently and Izzy and her memory stories of Past and childhood/teen are SOME OF THE GOOD THINGS that we hang on to some buried but they are there. Things that were important to us.

When I read about Dr. G and the story of when there was a thunder storm and his mother holding him in a Big Chair and the P.J.s he wore and how he felt....there was a good feeling and memory. 

I have so many different memories and I did come from the City with many people and many different blocks with many different problems.  I was exposed to pretty much everything there is to be exposed to.  Just City Life.  And every part of my growing has effected me, the environment, the multi culture, the problem families, the generations to generations,  the neighborhood and how we were separated and how when needed Unite!  EVERYTHING.

There was everything that is around today.  Abuse was there but disguised as discipline.  Maybe even thought it truly was discipline then.  There was no going to your room for time out unless you went to the room for the Belt.  Then there was the Shame to follow...through hearing it, seeing it or the church saying try to be better. 

Sometimes there would be a Dad who stepped if the beating was getting too much and being seen. Then the other dad would either Stop or get Their Ass kicked by the dad who was defending the child.  The other dad was usually drunk, or buzzed, or had enough.  Either the mother would be crying if she was there or waiting for it to stop.  Then later when the father sobered up he would apologize to the other Dad who stepped in and ALL would be GOOD.  Shame all around and the worst for the kids. Ashamed because they did something so bad.  Ashamed because now everyone knew they were so shamefull.  Just Shame, Shame, Shame.
And justified Shame you Should Be.  And I was shamed for just seeing it, thinking about it, and meeting those eyes that knows I saw it.  And I NEVER EVER even as young as I was THOUGHT  they did anything that bad. 

I would meet eyes with the boys and although they were being hurt they were truly horrified that we (kids) parents saw this happen. And I was really HORRIFIED because I was TERRIFIED and before I could be removed from seeing it it was already taking place.  I never had a hand raised to me, ever.  So I didn't Get it and it was always the Boys.

And I didn't get it because although I seen this RAGE by the other Parent I would also be greeted with Hi ya honey, how you doing doll and nothing but Nice to Everyone Else so half of me was terrified of this Person and the other Half would think What did his kid do to make him So Mad.  And it was discipline to MANY MANY people and even to the Father who was Disciplining his Child.  Oh hell you would be shown a Scar of the Fathers nose...You see this!.. This is what my father gave me for being Disrespectfully when I was out of line...Like that was normal ..And I guess it WAS to them...it was Discipline..

Which was ABUSE and being the head of the household the bread winner, the father, the provider, the man who stopped for drinks after work (bar on every corner) and acceptable and expected while mother took care of the 8bazillion children they had, cooked, cleaned and became depressed, closet drinkers, such was life, for many.  The Generational Times.

Many of these parents then came from Parents and children to them In the Depression which still had 8 bazillion kids and just were bringing in the same issues, the same pattern and the same discipline but To Better their children's lives....Many were saving for a house on a one parent salary (dads).

So time goes on...and the bars are still the Manly Man bars (after work) hard working dads getting their Buzz on...and now Moms are getting sick of things...Getting Sick.. but some things don't change and one Mom (as they said) Had a breakdown and walked up to the Bar with the Manly Men and Threw a Brick Right threw the Window.  So instead of saying..UH she is pissed and she has had enough...The men said she had a Break Down and the women who were brave enough Said...OH HELL YA.. the rest kept quiet. 

And everyone went to Church on Sundays. 

I really hate to stop but I must my little kiddo needs some help with his homework but I will continue later....and I will go on with my memories of Times/Problems/Bonding of Friends/ ect....and Generation of Generation from what I can remember...my experiences right down To Me then ME and Mine.

Love
Deb

[debkor]

Oh, quickly for I am being told a story of the *Fight Mosh Pit* as my son is calling it in School, yes 14 years two Girls..one yelling at the other at the locker and then attacking Where they are Hurt..chunks of Flesh out..Kids jumping over lockers..A Riot Breaking out, Security running, The Principle running Screaming..Move the Fuck out of my Way because of being blocked and more damage being done..AND I don't CARE.. I could see me doing the same myself trying to get to the Children who are being Assulted...Police Sirens, Arrest...and a new Generation....Don't want to jump things yet though.  I'll go on with my memories and up to date...AND I'm in or was in a Rural Area and City is here.

Love
Deb

[debkor]

Sooooooo,

Lets see, Church. 

Now I'm in a private school to which most were with tution dues.  So again Dad's worked Hard.  Don't get me wrong Moms worked too but when I was little I remember most moms were home. 

So I played jump rope, skate, all the things little kids do.  I get a little older am my mom decides she is going back to work P/T and my dad would be home by the time she leaves.  So life goes on.

I was scared when I entered school and was met with the 8ft tall, Nun in a Long Black Outfit with only White Poster Board surrounding her face who lined us up against the back of the wall and went up and down and then up and down stopping at each and everyone of us..(heart pounding) and then step Back and say...WITH A HUGE SMILE...OH MY you are ALL SO CUTE....

So first grade was GREAT..met one of my best friends there. 

I also remember our class going to the next class and exchanging Candy then the other Class being led by this Girl Susie who had a b/f in our class to come in and give valentine cards....I also remember later on a year or two...later going to her Viewing with my Class and her laid out in her communion outfit and her mother out of her mind who tried to take her out to comb her hair.

She was hit by a car trying to cross the Street at the Age of 8.  I also remember a girl the same age SCREAMING and running down our street who later became another friend of mine and was the other girl who was with her when Susie was telling her to hurry up they can make it and witnessed it All.

So life was passing and many things were happening.  Women were working more.  Horn n Hardarts I thought was the coolest thing but this was being replaced why a Huge Restaurant. 

The manly man bars were still the same but more women were going out But I think with husbands.  The other women who were there like the Men were looked down upon. 

Now I was not allowed off my block and had eyes all over the place.  The only time I was allowed off was with my sister who was older then me and only when she was older.  Other kids were allowed off Not all but some.  They were even allowed in the Parks alone to play.  It was a different Time not 100% secure but safer.  We all knew the Parkies by name as they did us.

At the same time were were playing in the park..so were the teens and the Fathers...Soft Ball for Bar Leagues.  Remember you could drink at 18 then legally and when you couldn't you did it in the park under aged.

We all had that lovely option who ever lived with front windows to the street to be able to see what's going on. There were always windows open in summer and always heads out them.  Pillows propped under your knees and out the window you hung.  I lived on the first floor so there was always conversation going on with someone if you were not outside. 

There were neighbors next door (building) who had a son who I just thought the Stars came our of His Eyes and his Sister WHOA now she was really cool and the most drop Dead Yardley Looking Girl I ever seen but with Flaming Red Hair.  Who to this Day I will remember always for my EARS are always with ME.  She and her friend Pierced my Ears..my mother not knowing and I have these use holes in my ears to date with that big sewing needle they used..So that is my funny, cool, loved them memory.. Oh I forgot.. another one of their younger brother and my sister and her friend telling him to sit on a paper so they could Trace his butt because it was as close as it would get to a heart shape as I played with my big Cut outs.. Yogi Bear...

Then time still went on....and I'm still little but...something else is happening which I don't GET but know it's happening..VIET NAM...Lottery's and people watching to see numbers. I had no brothers so I had no clue and although I was not directly effected my parents were by friends, family, etc. 

My mothers best friend Son enlisted and the mother Freaked.  I had a mad Crush on him.  I still didn't get it.  Everything was Fine there and when his time was up he reenlisted.

Now another Boy who I thought was just the Best probably around 18, 19 and use to stop and color with me and talk was drafted.
I remember his friends probably 3 sheets to the wind calling him out to his window. This is what we did but thought it was really funny when they sang to the tune of Mickey Mouse they sang to his window...M..I..C..H..A..E..L Moose!!!  Michael Moose!!!
He was a big guy.

Next I remember him in uniform and then gone.  I always heard of him and saw the gifts that he sent home and heard he was coming home soon his tour was done.

Also I remember being able to see the Change in people hear a pin drop to be able to stop from what ever I was doing just because it was that quick of a change...then see all the neighbors stop..hands to mouth.  A car or a little truck come through the neighborhood and what building it would stop in front of.

As a matter of fact I might have been playing outside the building when this happened.  A priest came out with some one dressed in a Uniform and entered the building.  It was summer.  I remember what I had on.  I remember looking at the people on the street.  I remember windows open and I remember the Screams and what window they came out of...It was Michael Moose.  I remember my mother dropping right where she was...and that is all I remember other then sitting with the mother and her having a display of every thing he ever gave her and them having to break her hands away from mine ..and I don't remember anything else about that day.. I don't know if I became undone or she became UN done or we both did.  That I don't remember.

His helicopter was ambushed when they were leaving..Done..coming home.  And his mother was never the same.  The neighborhood was never the same..The Times were not the Same...And Revolution was starting....HELL NO WE WON'T GO, HIPPIES, PROTEST...BABY KILLERS...AND..Generation against Generation..

I also remember Boys Two Step Forward...One Back..Nod...Herion addicts....And so much Pain and so Much confusion..anger..and Changing Times..(of course) I had no clue what was going on... just my memories.  And parents were attending other Parents Children's funerals who were facing the UN faceable and worrying and praying to God to keep their boys safe who were serving at that very moment when they were saying goodbye to one of their Friends...

So time moves on as I must again...I have to finish cleaning up now...but I will be back...

Love
Deb

[debkor]

So now I am getting a picture as AN ADULT to be able to put somethings together....

I'm getting older and I'm doing my own thing now.  I have ventured out as did most of the kids from all the blocks.  We now are forming Teen Friends because we can move off the block.  Old enough. 

I'm a good kid and a kid who has a mind of her own.  Don't get me wrong..I was a rebel to but only certain things I would try and hope to God I don't get caught and other things Never want to try.

We hung out in the parks.  There were three and different groups in each one.  In ours were two sets that didn't always get Along.
Drama, Drama, Drama...My b/f cheated on me with you, you slut, I don't like that look you gave me and other times we all would sit and Sing together...Yes we Sang Alot...Huge groups..one of my favorite things to do..Imagine me and you and you and me, No matter how they tossed the dice it Had to be,   SO Happy TO GET HERRRRRRRRRRRRRR....then we would be just a fighting up a storm other times.

We would sneak and do A, Ma can I have 3$ for the Dance tonight, Ya sure, $ 1.25 for a bottle of Sangria and a pack of Smokes and if we all chipped in Won Ton Soup later on so we didn't feel sick.  Don't know what it was about that Won Ton Soup.

I also don't know how we did it.  We drink, be home on time, sober, or so I thought we were...or just that different times..of HOME ..NIGHT, luv  ya.  We even had KEG parties and the Cops would come but never take us Home...something we feared..OH NO the BUCK IS UP.  They just take the kegs, hmmm. 

Oh and one night it was not so happy together for ofcourse....you were looking at my B/F and I was not but pulled by the back of my hair and down me and this girl went...and I wound up with a Chunk out of My leg from falling on a bottle...off for stitches...My mother calling my dad in the room...She IS DRUNK...OMG SHE IS DRUNK...And I'm saying No, I'm tired...bleeding all over...My Dad giving me the LOOK..oh no you didn't...and off to the hospital we went to be fixed then have my ass handed to me...

I also don't know how we just stand outside the liquor store and ask can you get me and hand a LIST.. and they did it. 

Now some of the older siblings were off into Herion World and it was bad.  The younger ones were some of my friends and doing what we were doing and then as time went on some of them were Lost to the Same thing...

We were all mixed with all different strenghts of our own and some who were Lost as Time Kept going on...The thing is we were bonded and we did not give up without a Fight..we would fight, fight, fight to save another and hold on till you had to let Go.

I can name:::::

Abusive Father later on Abusive Son(friend) who kicked the shit out of the G/F in front of everyone...She never said a word before we seen it happen.

Son who's father left and was abusive to the mother.  Mother worked her butt off, kind decent, hard working woman.  Son who hated his father, protected his mother and little brother, left school to work to help support the family and protected with his life...threw himself in front of the little brother and a knife wound including going through a store front window...

Friend who use to have to run home and make sure dinner was ready for her father. Come back out later.  Sitting in the Pizza shop called home because an ambulance was at her house.  Her father died.
When she returned to hang out again expressed how sorry we were to find out that the Family Felt Free'd of Fear.  He was abusive.

Friend who's parents were very respected in the community Were terrible Alcaholics at home.

Friend who all her brothers were lost to Herion and then she turned to Herion and had to let her Go.....

Friend who was so drunk one night she was passing out and not staying awake...Us friends ...who would have Hell to pay and our Asses handed to Us by our Parents KNEW enough to take her home to her mother in a cab...and tell Mom ..Something is wrong..Mom didn't look upset at all and never took her to the hospital...And I was dead meat but did the right thing.

Friend who partying with another friend drinking Vodka and his friend laid back went to sleep he went to wake him and he was dead...That Friends life changed and he became an alcaholic himself and could not get over it...and held himself responsible.

And maybe that is how I got myself into what I did and how I got myself OUT...Things in my ex were all to familiar to me. 

The bars on the corner, the boys stopping for drinks, problems, but something I knew and did not Know...Hands put on Me... something that was never done to me or that I had seen from my father, anything he did I had never seen from my father...yet.. things that I had seen and was familiar with....

The only thing I had heard when I was little was...Yes..sometimes my father would stop with the boys and come home later then he should of.  My mother was not about to keep her little voice little and do an Oh boys will be boys and let my Father have it....and I heard...more times then I should have...I guess they were having some problems about this....and I would hear.....GET THE HELL OUT....and Freak...NO DADDY...DON"T GO...MOMMY what ARE YOU DOING....I HATE YOU...

My dad was a gentle person but not without Fault and Mistakes yet...he hand none with me..nor did I understand.  Sure my father was being a BUTT and not ALL that Golden and my mother who I had seen as my Main Female Figure.. out of control...WHAT ARE YOU DOING ....STOP HIM... my fears of abandonement...I think.  I was more afraid of them abandoning each other...and they Had No Clue, None what so ever...how a child was being damanged.  Neither did I.

You know when I was with my Ex..I was so deseprate to Fix things...and would do the and I did...GET THE HELL OUT I would FREEZE..oh no.. what if he does...what if he doesen't come back....when I knew he shouldn't had and would be so Mad at myself and so in conflict with myself of WHY the HELL aren't you DOING IT.....because then he may just leave... So what was I tryng to hold on to....and who?  My father.  Old unresolved issues of fears of abandonment...I think so.   Yet, I had that fight in me...fight, fight, fight for yourself...only sometimes I didn't know how to let Go..and when to..

I had to do that Time line like PR talks about...and this is what I find...

So I try to find balance for my children in life and Hope I don't make to many mistakes and do think that although my children appear to be Just Fine with thier father that there will maybe someday be and Issue with Abandonment feelings (I hope not) but just may be because they Were. 

So I went back to my parents and thier childhoods as far as I could.  I couldn't with my grandparents and I can see that ...My parents were 100% loving NOT N or P but not without mistakes and me very effected by somethings...and when I became vulnerable..I repeated a pattern and old Issue....and still tried to resolve it NOT EVEN KNOWING what I was doing....Until I knew.

Now I'm married to a Country Boy and Grew up SO different then I did, while he was fixing his cars, A jock, and who had the better car I was drinking and smoking a Cig and would have thought ..OMG.. your SUCH a DORK...

So Life Goes on to my childrens Generatin now..so they say the ME one...Argh..do we ever get it right...and Well he's a little bit Country.. AND I'M A LITTLE BIT ROCK AND ROLL...and yes..my NEW YORK...still comes out!!

We do have lots of laughs though.  He will say to me..Ugh! Flatlanders...How U Doin, can u get da suga...Do you realize that when you get together with your friends the accent gets thicker and I have no clue what you are saying sometimes...Yeah sure I can understand him and his when they talk about the snow flying and it's going to be a bad winter because the squirrles tails are Fluffy...or you eat Pork the day after New Years or you will be itchy for the rest of the year.

And I wonder what my kids will think about mine...

Oh and as for my children.  Well I'm sure they have pulled things over on me.  They were NEVER LIKE ME though...and I'm not sure what I would have done..Either kick in to Matrix Moves..Faint..I don't know.   I always spoke to them about things though.  Told them don't be foolish..I'm not that Old..and don't be afraid to tell me things I may get hysterical but I will calm down and they still might be Dead Meat but Calm.

So far I have heard many years after:: Even my little one keep a seceret for his older sister who ran a light..DON'T TELL MOM...PLEASE DON'T TELL MOM...well mom found out and took the Car for One month...and you know I didn't even know my little one knew. He never said anything till a few months ago.

Then when my D was in college...PARTY..and got an under age drinking ticket at a Party...she was 19 and cry asking if they would send the ticket home..they didn't and made sure she had payment due till paid off and it was a $400.00 ticket.  Then told me this year...Not sure about that one I think I may have Gone all Matrix on her...

I did expect that from both of my kids in college and bit my lip...whistled alot..and prayed to God...and now my son on Spring Break..God. 

It's funny because my D all excited said..Ma..wanna go to this Music Fest with ME...(she's 24) it will be the B'52s and Joan Jett..Two Generations.. this should be interesting..because she gets such a kick out of seeing the Old Folks Carry on as they did when they were in thier 20's...

Last time we were at the B 52's.. she was six with me at central Park..and she rocked out and has loved them ever since...Love Shack..babbbbeeeee...

It's funny we can blast out songs together...and I really know the Words....

So that's my story...abandoment..sure I know it...Abuse...sure I know it....Disipline..sure do know that word .....Kids what they do, mistakes they make, ones that make to big of ones, some that can't correct them...and just all kinds of life and what takes place...I was able to be around So many diffferent lives...in such a big neighborhood...I seen it all...I felt it all some less then others some more then others..

Life is ..well..life and sometimes it's hard to figure out and we are complex creatures..

And if you were to ask me when I was 20 maybe even 30...I have said..Nope nothing in MY LIFE wrong I was just with the wrong Person.. Seriously.

So I think I have moved out of the past figured some out and left it where it was..sure remember it but without Impact now...
Sometimes it was so hard to live in the present... I mean you can be in your past and move towards your future..but how do get into present ...for me it was Time Line.

I also do know that some of those people from my childhood are alright and live full happy lives..turned thier lives around.  The funny thing is that we all feel the same way about growing up ....We loved it...with everything that took place.  Because there was Bonding with the Kids of the Neighborhood.

So I wonder with all the pain and all the suffering that was caused with everyone that comes to this board and from what they lived as children...I do think..that... I may just understand things better about myself and possibly about my parents...the neighborhood, friends, the times...just maybe...and that I was a 6 year old in an adult body when it came to ...Get the Hell Out...repeating what I did not resolve and looking for someone else to resolve it and not with Abandonement Issues which is exactly what I set myself UP FOR...

And I have bonded with ya all...Your all my Neighborhood.  Love to you all...and AGAIN... I will have a hard Time Letting This Board Go...for it never will and you would always be in my heart ...as the others in my 3 D life kids who in my neighborhood always had Voice maybe not a solution then but voice, faint, loud, but had one.

We are the the Grown Up Kids now in our Neighborhood with the maturity to find Solution and let Go of what maybe we could not back then...and Heal.

Oh and ...whats going on today?  Some of the very same things only bigger and badder..




Love
Deb

[sKePTiKal]

WOW, Deb. I'm blown away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You'll appreciate this: the friend who contacted me through Facebook? We had a friend in common - someone I knew in the new town I lived in AFTER. That friend went to Kent State, and my re-connected friend knew him there. The in-between friend died young; some congenital health problem no one knew about - not even him. They would've met up in the late 70's while I was married and having my girls.

Loved reading all your memories. I can relate to a LOT of them... I've got a lot of similar ones: the bars, the hardhats (steelworkers), vietnam and the shock of realizing that someone was NEVER coming home. And you remember the GOOD things, too.... the good things are always there, in the memories along with the not-so-good... but sometimes we put on special glasses and can only see one or the other - we FORGET the other memories ...

Glad the timeline idea helped. I sorta get to "present moment" by letting myself get real quiet and feel the past behind me (it's where I've been and it was REAL) and try to picture the future in front of me.... and then just feel myself, in my body, right now. What I think -feel-do now is what the future is built of. And right now, that future looks like a hammock facing big water, warm sunshine and cool shade, a soft breeze, favorite tunes and a margarita close by, with my magpie hubby chattering away about his latest enthusiasm, saying I pay no attention to him.

I agree: the board has become a neighborhood. It's not a ghost town, at all.

[lighter]

I can't wait to come back and finish your last post, Deb!

[debkor]

PR,

I so do appreciate it.  Friends in your heart even if for a short time and many moons ago are a Part of Us and our Childhood.  As you were sent from an Old Friend.  I was sad when you moved.  There are good memories and you were appreciated for You and loved for You.  Even as life changes us with just growing apart, different likes, different this or that...back then..that was Us and that is there forever in time..our childhood friends.

Now for You M2 because I can't seem to shut up...with the Generational Thinking....and it's times.

So M2, I don't know exactly what to say...

So for women..we come a long way baby...(my first cigarette cause it was pretty) it had Flowers around the filter.  What was it's name..Virginia Slims maybe?

Anyway...

You know M2 I might have to take that back...bigger and badder...maybe just different with these Times.  Well for sure I do think we have more understanding these days and more opportunities then ever before. 

I have noticed there is a whole lot of Talking and Voice going on about things that are not being kept Secret..Problems sure, Issues, sure, N's, Sure, P's Sure...it's here as it was there...and going to move into my children's Generation...As I understand it's the Me Generation..Ugh!

And it's crazy....and I'm thinking...that sometimes I don't know what I'm thinking..

OH and PR...

I know you work for the college::  and I have a college kid.
and here is a song that they smile..and sure..it's  played at the parties...ah! oh! Ugh...gasp..I'm NOT LISTENING.....I have to put in on another page.. gotta find it.

[debkor]

I Love College Lyrics

(intro)
im nice right now
i, i feel good
if you have a drink
would you please put it in the air

(chorus)
that party last night was awfully crazy
i wish we taped it
i danced my ass off and had this one girl completely naked
drink my beer and smoke my weed
with my good friends is all i need
pass out at 3 wake up at 10
go out to eat then do it again

(verse one)
i wanna go to college for the rest of my life
sip bankers club and drink miller lite
on thirsty thursday and tuesday night ice
and i can get pizza a dollar a slice
so fill up my cup
lets get fucked up
im next on the table
who want what
i am champion at beer pong
allen iverson hakeem olajuwon
dont even bounce, not in my house
better hope you make it
otherwise you naked

time isnt wasted when youre getting wasted
woke up today and all i could say is

(chorus)
that party last night was awfully crazy
i wish we taped it
i danced my ass off and had this one girl completely naked
drink my beer and smoke my weed
but my good friends is all i need
pass out at 3 wake up at 10
go out to eat then do it again

(bridge part)
man i love college
and i love drinkin
i love women
i love college

(verse two)
i cant tell you what i learned from school
but i could tell you a story or two
um yea of course i learned some rules
like dont pass out with your shoes on
and dont leave the house till the booze gone
and dont have sex if shes too gone
when it comes to condoms put two on
then tomorrow night find a new JAWN
hold the beer bong
nothing wrong with some fun
even if we did get a little just too drunk

time isnt wasted when youre getting wasted
woke up today and all i could say is

(chorus)
that party last night was awfully crazy
i wish we taped it
i danced my ass off and had this one girl completly naked
drink my beer and smoke my weed
but my good friends is all i need
pass out at 3 wake up at 10
go out to eat then do it again

(bridge part)
man i love college
and i love drinkin
i love women
i love college

now if everybody would please
put their drink as high as they can
as high as they can
and repeat after me

CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG

FRESHMAN FRESHMAN FRESHMAN FRESHMAN

DO SOMETHIN CRAZY DO SOMETHIN CRAZY DO SOMETHIN CRAZY DO SOMETHIN CRAZY

KEGSTAND KEGSTAND KEGSTAND KEGSTAND

yea
that party last night
man i love college
i love it
that party last night
alright everybody i gotta head back to class for a little bit

(chorus in background)

but after that
you know whats goin down
my house and 3 kegs
see you there
youre all invited
bring your friends
bring your mom

do i really have to graduate
or can i just stay here for the rest of my life

[debkor]

Alright....I never went to college..but I'm sure if I did... I'd be singing  this Song ...Whooooo, Chug, Chug, Chug...Kegstand, Kegstand...if I was in college now...

Ok I admit it...but I'm not....and I'm a mother of one  and think OH GOD and even know of Thirsty Thurs...Oh God!!

[lighter]

Deb....

you're right.

This is a community.

I'll miss it with all my heart, should it end.

In the meantime.... I'll embrace this fellowship and be thankful you're my friend.

Loved this entire thread: )