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Protecting Children From An N Mom

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WorriedDad:
I am the father of two daughters (12 and 14) and am co-parenting with what I now believe is an N Mom.  My 14 year old recently decided she would no longer see her N Mom.  The things my daughter has told me about her relationship with her mother has stunned me since I found this site.  

My daughter has told me that to her mother she is a non-entity, she doesn't matter.  She said she can never be herself around her mother because her mother doesn't like who she is.  She has said that any time her mother does not get what she wants, she cries to her and guilt trips her (e.g. "How could you do this to me?").  She says that she absolutely cannot talk to her mother because her mother will not listen; she says her mother cannot hear anything; she thinks she knows everything; she thinks she's always right.  If my daughter tells her mother how she feels or what she thinks, her mother will actually say that my daughter doesn't think or feel what she says she thinks or feels.  Another thing the N Mom does is lie right to the person who knows the truth.            

And the thing is, my daughter is a beautiful, fun, happy, talented, sweet, highly intelligent child with an amazing sense of who she is and what she wants and thinks and believes.  She just cannot be lied to and told that she doesn't believe something or doesn't feel something or doesn't know the truth.  

So, starting about 3 years ago, she started fighting her mother.  One day she told me, I'm not going back and she hasn't.  Its been about 4 months and she is very happy about her decision and has said that she never wants to see her mother again.  She says she doesn't like her mother and that she truly believes her mother cannot and will not change.  

My 12 year old hasn't refused contact, but has recently demanded more time in my home.

Her mother has a psychologist involved and is trying to get the psychologist and me to make my daughter see her.  I want some input on whether I should tell the psychologist that I think she is an N and also on whether minimal contact (2 out of every 14 days) would be too much (I tend to think if she doesn't want to go, she shouldn't go... I worry that if this isn't supported, she would feel like she had no option, but to quit).

Moonflower:
...

flower:
Wow I wished I had had a dad like you growing up - one that listened. :)



--- Quote ---She says that she absolutely cannot talk to her mother because her mother will not listen; she says her mother cannot hear anything; she thinks she knows everything; she thinks she's always right. If my daughter tells her mother how she feels or what she thinks, her mother will actually say that my daughter doesn't think or feel what she says she thinks or feels. Another thing the N Mom does is lie right to the person who knows the truth.

--- End quote ---


Maybe you could give your daughter's description of her mother to the psychologist, if you haven't already. I've found some doctors and professionals will go against our insights because they react against our use of diagnostic terms such as narcissistic. Maybe this psychologist is more open than that to knowledge in those seeking help.

If you have already told the psychologist about the mother's lack of empathy described in your daughters words above maybe you can ask the psychologist what the effect a mother like this will have on the development of your daughter's self esteem.  I think that your daughter probably shouldn't be around her mom unsupervised. I got to the point as an adult that I wouldn't be around my mom alone because of her abusive lies.  That was before I completely broke off contact.

Your daughter sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders.

Your daughter's description sounds so familiar! Especially the part about the mother telling her what she feels and thinks and the lies to the face of one who knows the truth. This is very destructive behavior. It looks like the mother doesn't see her daughter as another person with her own wishes, dreams, feelings at all. Your daughter is blessed to have you believe her. My dad didn't look out for me and my mom's doubt ate away at my self esteem.

Your daughters are going to need your ongoing support in regard to their mother for many years to come. IMO

bunny:

--- Quote from: WorriedDad ---Her mother has a psychologist involved and is trying to get the psychologist and me to make my daughter see her.  I want some input on whether I should tell the psychologist that I think she is an N and also on whether minimal contact (2 out of every 14 days) would be too much (I tend to think if she doesn't want to go, she shouldn't go... I worry that if this isn't supported, she would feel like she had no option, but to quit).
--- End quote ---


What specifically do you mean, "her mother has a psychologist involved"? If your ex-wife is seeing a therapist as a patient, the therapist should not "persuade" other family members to come and see her. If your ex isn't a patient, a therapist STILL shouldn't persuade other family members to see her. I wouldn't talk to this psychologist at all, period. And I'd keep my daughter far away from her.


my opinion,
bunny

Ellie:
WorrieddDad,
Bless your heart for recognizing and trusting your daughters. You are a precious gem!

I was 14 when I realized what kind of people I was living with and who were influencing my thoughts and behaviors. At that age I started seperating from them. They were still together so I had no one to rescue me. My friends all saw what was going on, and wanted to intervine and their parents wanted to help me. But I BELONGED to my Nparents and had no choice but to stay.

I started working jobs that would keep me away until they were in bed, or I stayed in my room all the time. Many times I thought of suicide. I was a non person, I didn't exist except to blame.

If I had a parent that could have rescued me, I would have jumped in their arms and never looked back. Your 14 year old knows how she feels, what her mother is doing to her and is needing to be rescued. The 12 year old hasn't fully matured to realize it yet. She is still forgiving and innocent.

At 14 years of age we are old enough to realize other people can take away our innocence and I don't just mean in the sexual way. Others can take away our innocence of thought and trust.

Do whatever is necessary to get your daughters away from this treatment until they are older and can heal from what is going on in their life now. They will then be stronger and older to learn how to cope with this treatment from their mother and make a decision on their own whether they want her in their lives.

If she was physically abusing them, wouldn't you take them away and never let her near them again? Mental abuse can do just as much damage, but there are no scars to prove the abuse. Therefore we feel we will never be believed.

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