Author Topic: Saying hi  (Read 2290 times)

Kitty Coyote

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Saying hi
« on: May 22, 2009, 08:56:09 PM »
Want to say hi, am new to the board and have really appreciated all the thoughtful posts and supportive environment. My neck is sore from nodding and saying "yes yes, I've seen that too!"

I'm in relationship with N, 18 years, married but I'm ready to go. A few things happened over the last year that started tipping the balance for me and more recently I feel like someone's ripped my blinders off (and that is some bright light out there). H is also sex addicted, and probably alcoholic.

We're separated and he's in quite a spiral since I've withdrawn supply, thus a rollercoaster of emotions that lead to these bizarre, long, eloquent-yet-say-nothing, value/devalue emails. Interspersed with ones that are rational and calm and seemingly very contrite (the only ones I'll acknowledge). No matter what, I know in my heart that there's nothing he could do or say to bring me back. However the sane emails still spark guilt and doubt in me. I know in my head that his expressions have more to do with losing supply than true love and commitment. But the unhealthy part of me says "well, he wouldn't be in such a state if you'd kept him calm by not rocking the boat." And starts remembering all the good times we have had, and thinking about how sad and lonely he must be.

Actually, he's entertaining our sex addicted, alcoholic female neighbor this evening. Not that he knows I know this. She gives good Narcissistic Supply if nothing else so for a few hours I guess I shouldn't sweat the lonely thing.

The list of reasons I want to leave is pretty big, and includes everything from how terribly haughty he can be to service people to him offering me sexually to men without my knowledge (or, needless to say, consent). So why is it that I hesitate even a little bit? Why do I feel like I need one last smoking gun piece of evidence to say "that did it"?

I'm learning a lot but still a long way to go. Look forward to contributing and reading.

KC


Izzy_*now*

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Re: Saying hi
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 03:54:55 AM »
Welcome Kitty,

--and another one. We are all talkiing the same language with variations of the details. I, personally, have found that the No Contact (NC )works best of all.

I met one all charming etc. who changed right before my eyes, but had no name for it (1998-2002) but then learned, then realized that is what my daughter married, back in 1984.

She divorced him, 1996 but I had had no name for it when she was 19 and met him. I just didn't like him, but am sure he pulled the charm on her and --well I was soon on the outside, when 2 grandkids were 4½ and 2.  A 3rd arrived later They are now 23, 20, 18 and I don't know them.

The eldest did come west to see me, (2006) but it was all about him, and the 2 boys live with their Dad. UH-OH! N grandboys, and granddaughter is with her mother.

Then I began to think of all the other people who had me walking on eggshells and I found that it was mainly my family, narrowed down to both parents dead, and 2 sisters NC. One sis and a bro in contact.

Life is SO much more manageable for "us" when we clean the junk out of it. Permanently.

I don't talk about the Nism much, anymore, but keep my eye out for it! I have met some great people here and  my current topic is after 40 years in a wheelchair, 2 months ago, in my 'chair on the sidewalk a car backed into me, toppled me over and out and my left femur was fractured, also taking a chip from my hip bone. I had two surgeries and am still in pain and get up a lot in the night, come on line, until the pain dissipates, then go back to bed. I don't do anything as the driver's Insurance Co. is paying for all my Home Care. Great to be at home

But pain and lack of sleep is debiliitating, so must take care.

You might grieve the good times, but it will never be back to all good. I'm sure you have read that here. NC soon becomes a way of life (it has for me) and no more obssession for revenge or anything that improper, like blowing up his truck. Soon, no more even missing what you thought were good times, but were all phony.

Good Luck
Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

lighter

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Re: Saying hi
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 07:55:18 AM »
Welcome Kitty:

Please do some research on healthy boundaries.

It's your job to take care of yourself and the more distance you gain, the less contact you have with your husband, the better off you'll be.

Do you have children with your husband?

Mo2

 




Hopalong

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Re: Saying hi
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 11:31:45 AM »
Hi KC,
Two things strike me:

Quote
him offering me sexually to men without my knowledge (or, needless to say, consent)

This is horrifically demeaning and when you have finished leaving him, you will for the rest of your life look back at the moment when you recognized that you actually valued yourself enough for this to be a dealbreaker, as your moment of liberation.

At the same time that you discover what it feels like to say NO, you may encounter a lot of shame and grief that you let yourself be disrespected profoundly for so long by a very unhealthy man. I hope you won't blame yourself. It's really not necessary to pile on...you've had it bad enough that you don't need to beat yourself up for neglecting yourself. All that would be is more badness. No benefit.

Low self-respect is a symptom of an ill self, and nearly everybody here has had the illness in one way or another, as well as have most people you see walking down the street. The boundary-less person, particularly the woman, is created by so many things: not just by FOO dysfunctions (epidemic), but by our entire culture, myths of romance, sexism, and so many other currents that pull a strong growing girl child under and stuff her bright psyche with mud and gauze. She surfaces years later in a toxic relationship, feeling used and sick, and wonders why.

You don't have to have all the answers or reasons nailed down before you decide to save yourself. You don't have to justify it or have a seamless narrative about why it's the "right choice". You can just save yourself.

The second thing I felt alerted by was the effect of his emails on you. (Fasten seat belt, speech coming.)

IMO, email is a toxic trap, flypaper, for people trying to disentangle themselves from a destructive relationship. For Ns in particular, email eloquence is as cheap as cheese. Their outstandingly subtle radar helps them say all the right things to push buttons, tease a response, seduce you back, make you feel guilty, play on your loneliness and fear, remind you of what you did love, hum the old hypnotic notes, remind you of the pleasanter parts of the personality, etc.--smart Ns are made for this. Email is an ideal vehicle for them. But it's a dangerous place for YOU, because as a person who has lacked healthy normal self-respect...you may feel artificially safe in email. (Smart as you are...emails can bore into your mental soundness and create leaks in your protection in a different way than other communication does.)

[I lived through a "hitting bottom" thing about the role I had let email play in my own worst entanglement with an N. I read and thought about it for a couple years. I realized I hid there and many other subtle things about their effect on me. Now I will not address anything that in the pre-email world would have required confrontation or "holding the line" with someone not good for me, by email.]

It's subtle and complicated but: email gives those of us with shaky selves a false sense of having adequate borders. E.g., "I am here. My message is in the email and I am controlling it. I send it when I want, or I don't. I can edit it very carefully. I can keep things in my Inbox and Outbox. It's all nice and contained here in my computer -- I have it captured here behind this screen. Both the ones I get and the ones I send. I actually have control over the ones I receive because I can answer or not." [False: the words enter your mind--you are helpless over when one arrives--bing!--and vulnerable and alone when you read it and take it into your mind, which is involuntary and a literal result of you reading it--you do NOT have control. Block Sender is control. Like Return to Sender --unopened--used to be for physical mail. Anything else is: come into my psyche. I'm going to let you in...because I'm not really serious about taking care of myself, defending my precious mind against what is harmful.]

Email is not a safe place for dialogue about anything that affects your life in a big way. You have LESS control and you are MORE vulnerable to those messages in some ways. That Inbox can open right into your psyche.

I don't know all of why that is but I feel it strongly. There's nothing he can say by email that will make anything real that isn't already real. And nothing that will undo the falseness that's already false.

I wish you strength in this passage. I'm happy for you that you are going through it because you deserve to strengthen your self (you CAN build a strong self) and build your new life. And I don't think this relationship is what your life should be.

Fast-forward to your deathbed (sorry). Look back and say to yourself, look how I spent my one and only precious life. With whom.

Welcome!
Hops
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 11:40:32 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Kitty Coyote

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Re: Saying hi
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 12:12:40 PM »
Thanks for your very spot-on responses. Mother, no, no kids--very glad about that. And yes, clearly I have some severe boundary issues. I've always thought it was admirable that my folks worked things out after my mom discovered that dad  had a series of affairs (one resulting in a child that none of us have ever met). That they stuck it out, didn't bail, stayed committed, celebrating their 50th this year. But now I realize the subtext of all that was really that mom wasn't good enough for dad, yet she took him back anyway. And that's what I've done too.

Hopalong your points are great ones. I look at the last time H offered me to someone and cannot believe how I responded to that when he forwarded me the email that he'd sent to this friend of ours. You'd think he'd just told me that the grocery store was sold out of his favorite chips or something. It wasn't until the friend he offered me to (who, of course, declined) later said "Kitty, how can you allow him to do this?" that I started to wake up. I'm determined not to beat myself up over the past but there's a lot to process about and learn from it.

I also agree on email. Even typing out my original message here helped me see more clearly what I'm allowing. Your point about email giving a false sense of boundaries seems spot-on to me.

It sounds like he hopped into the sack with the crazy neighbor so if I wanted a smoking gun I got it. I had been planning to move slowly and carefully in order to try to make things go as smoothly as possible, but given circumstances I can't do that, I just have to go now. l'm going to give myself some quiet time to collect my thoughts today but by tomorrow will make the definitive cut and walk for good. We do own a biz together so will have to have some interaction, I should be able to find an intermediary to help with that though.

The funny thing is...right now I feel like it's Christmas morning. I've got some very tough stuff ahead of me dealing with divorce, etc. But I'm excited to be free to work on myself (and yes, my ailing boundaries) and just have a life without a man for the first time since I was 18. No more catering to someone else's snarky mood or sexual weirdness or crocodile tears. YES!! :)

Thanks so much--I'll post an update tomorrow...

KC


Ami

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Re: Saying hi
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 12:29:59 PM »
Dear (((Kitty)))
 I can relate to your post.
 Why did I stay with a man who was like my NM ALL these years--- because I believed that it was all I deserved.
 I think when s/one is in an abusive relationship, the relationship with themselves is really the abusive one. I have found that to be the case .     Ami
     
 
 
 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 12:35:54 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

lighter

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Re: Saying hi
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2009, 09:47:29 AM »
Kitty:

Resolve joint bank accounts.

Get disentangled from  him in every way.... as quckly as you can.

Get a PO box. 

Keep your address private, if you can.

If you maintain no contact with him, that means NO CONTACT at all, e mails, phone, texting.... NOT responding in any way, you have a better chance of ending this nightmare sooner.

Is there a mortgage in both your names?

Deal with it now.  Think of covering yousel of every way you can and expect the unexpected.

Changing your e-mail address.... or block him.  That's a good start.

Let all communication go through attorneys at this point.  Tell your family not to discuss you with him.  He'll likely begin contacting them when he can't reach you. 

When it gets difficult to maintain no contact, just try sitting with those feelings and doing nothing for a bit.

Change your own destructive patterns of dealing with this man.

You sure can't change his.

(((Kitty)))

Kitty Coyote

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Re: Saying hi
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 03:20:50 PM »
Hi all,

Wanted to leave an update...and I did tell NH that it's over, though it took me longer than I expected to do it. Now to handle the rest, which seems very overwhelming. At this point he's very contrite but I know better than to count on that being the case for more than the moment. Have a system for dealing with communication so that I control it. Two hours with my therapist, where she repeatedly dragged me back to my own issues, not feeling sorry for him.

Anyway, that's the short update. Thank you again for your words, they are surely appreciated.

KC

lighter

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Re: Saying hi
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 05:54:39 PM »
Stay focused.....

don't let him cross your boundaries.

You have a right to take care of yourself.  

It's not your job to fix him.

Might as well work on yourself ((Kitty.))

Mo2