Author Topic: Question: What are we hungry for?  (Read 9365 times)

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2009, 01:19:26 AM »
Quote
So then, if the N's in our life were hungry for love then what are we  hungry for?

At this particular moment, lemon sherbet.

mud

LOL, thanks!!

Ami

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2009, 08:04:33 AM »
I don't smoke but when I hear about your attachments to smoking, it touches me at a visceral level. I know that I have traits and quirks that are about keeping me attached to my NM to try FINALLY to get her to love me, if even in symbol.
    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

sKePTiKal

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2009, 08:11:58 AM »
Amber,

Another thought, that before you can grieve the loss of empathy in childhood you first have to comprehend on a deep level what empathy is.

Lise

Yep; I agree with you wholeheartedly! Thankfully, I did this process with my precious therapist... who taught me some very needed basics, before I attempted that. Otherwise, my own attempts would've gotten me stuck in the bottomless pit of the black hole... and having been there once; I didn't relish the thought of going back.

In "Emotional Intelligence", Daniel Goleman describes the reactions of toddlers in a group, to one toddlers' distress. Some will go hug the crying child; some will go get their mothers and take her to the child; some will start crying, too. He proposed that the variations all derive from their own attachment style. I found this book to be really helpful; demystifying emotions and some of the neurological processes that generate emotion. Together with Allan Schore's works on attachment and his concept of "Repair of the Self"... I've been trying to retrain, repair myself.

I am completely persuaded that this is possible.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2009, 08:25:16 AM »
OH! Almost forgot... one thing that helped me gain some insight into how interwoven smoking is with my emotional journey, was exploring the habit among people with PTSD symptoms. And that, sometimes one's attachment issues manifest like PTSD, because in fact, some types of attachment disturbances ARE traumatic... or to use your word, primal... because it takes place at such a young age, while the brain is beginning to grow and form neural connections.

Just like stroke victims can re-connect those brain functions... neuroplasticity means you can retrain, reroute those pathways. (though it'll be a lifelong work in progress, I think)

Just wanted to pass that along... in case it's of interest & helpful to you.

Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2009, 11:48:41 AM »
Amber,

It is starting to become clear to me that PTSD is just one piece of he smoking puzzle. Stress, overwhelming fears and anxiety that were repressed were at play in my earliest moments of life, there still seems to be more that I am just not seeing about my attachment to this particular addiction. I still cope in times of stress with addiction so healing the wounds of PTSD is part of it. But, in addition to the lack of empathy from a parent there is also the wounds of contempt that smoking tells a story of....

As much as smoking is a way for me to empathize with myself it is also something that I hold in contempt, and since it is not safe, generally, to own, identify and express our feelings of contempt that we felt towards our parents as small child, especially the safe factor, smoking is a
unsafe safe way for me to displace my aggressive contempt that never had a channel of expression towards those who I should have really been holding in contempt -- my parents --but to survive there would have been no way that I could have or even dreamed for a second of holding my parents in contempt...lol! I'm sure that you get this, it is very basic but just another layer of contempt that is surfacing. Contempt is the hidden emotion of my heart that needs healing before I can continue in this letting go process.

Contempt deserves an new subject thread so I am going to start one, I hope you will join me in looking at any unhealed area's of contempt that may still linger in your heart.

It is so good to connect with you again, you have been a huge help here for me.

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2009, 11:50:31 AM »
I don't smoke but when I hear about your attachments to smoking, it touches me at a visceral level. I know that I have traits and quirks that are about keeping me attached to my NM to try FINALLY to get her to love me, if even in symbol.
    Ami

Thanks Ami for your interest. Even though you are not able to relate to our addiction of smoking, the prison of addiction is similar to the prison of being trapped in our own fears which I know that you can relate.


Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2009, 11:57:54 AM »
smoking is a unsafe safe way for me to displace my aggressive contempt that never had a channel of expression towards those who I should have really been holding in contempt -- my parents --but to survive there would have been no way that I could have or even dreamed for a second of holding my parents in contempt...lol! I'm sure that you get this, it is very basic but just another layer of contempt that is surfacing. Contempt is the hidden emotion of my heart that needs healing before I can continue in this letting go process.

So I read this back to myself seeing the story here using words like "holding, safe, channel, expression"  does that not sound just like exactly what smoking is...a safe holding channel of expression? Yet under the surface of the safe idea of smoking is consistently the hidden expression of aggression (some we fear) "begging" for attention just like our need to quit smoking (something we fear) is consistently begging for our attention.

A good question for me to ask myself is what do I want, really want. The needs and wants that are surfacing are so primal. But writing about this here is helping to dredge up the pain and get it out. Thanks.



Ugh.

HeartofPilgrimage

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2009, 12:30:12 PM »
About the "letting go" question --- I have had trouble all my life knowing when something is worth "going to the mat" for and when it is not. I'll go to the mat for something that is stupid and not worth it, and then too quickly give up on something that definitely IS worth a fight. And I can't see the difference in the moment, it's only afterwards that I realize it was or was not really worth it. I have this problem with my daughter --- not being able to "just overlook" the stupid teenage stuff that she most likely will outgrow anyway. I think it stems from having to hang on ferociously to myself if I wanted any sense of selfhood at all.

I've decided that "letting go" for me is contained in this phrase ... "it is what it is." So I keep repeating it over and over to myself whenever I have this intense desire to beat my head against a brick wall. It is what it is. In psychotherapeutic (and Buddhist) terms, it's mindfulness and radical acceptance. Mindfulness of what is going on inside me, of what damage the situation REALLY can do to me, and radical acceptance (not hopelessness or despair). The difference between acceptance and despair is that in acceptance you don't give up hope that some day things might be different, but you give up the urgency of "making" things be different right now.


Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2009, 01:05:38 PM »
radical acceptance.

this is good for me to hear, I am going to attach myself this phrase when I feel that I cannot detach from my frustration around a particular situation.

Hopalong

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2009, 01:16:57 PM »
Me too, re. radical acceptance.

Thanks, Pilgrim!

Hops
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seasons

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2009, 01:31:44 PM »
Quote
So I read this back to myself seeing the story here using words like "holding, safe, channel, expression"  does that not sound just like exactly what smoking is...a safe holding channel of expression? Yet under the surface of the safe idea of smoking is consistently the hidden expression of aggression (some we fear) "begging" for attention just like our need to quit smoking (something we fear) is consistently begging for our attention.


Hi Lise!

I understand the fears....... in many ways.


Right now I need sleep to become peaceful. Pushed down FOO seems to be coming out in my dreams, dreadful. I am powerless over this at the moment.

seasons
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2009, 01:53:20 PM »
Yep, Seasons, do I ever know the pushed down FOO dream stuff. The other night I yelled out in my sleep so loud that I awoke myself. I called out in despair "Mom!"

My dream was that I was sitting on a couch next to a window, a huge black and very real aggressive bull started to put its head into the window...very slowing before I even was mindful of it, I was being pushed off the couch by the bull and pushed in terror by the bulls seeming desire to kill me. I screamed for help..."mom!" and then I awoke by my the sound of my own voice.

So what does this dream mean to me? I'm sure that there is much there that I a missing and not able to articulate still, but what insight I came up with was the bull represents a dark and hidden force in my life and that the couch is about comfort and relaxation if not even the relief and healing sense of protection that comes from therapy and sitting on a couch. The bull is the dark and primal nature of myself, aggressive, mean and wanting to takeover. As a child I repressed this very big, dark and aggressive animalistic nature in me, it was terrifying, yet it was there and now my unconscious is telling me that it is still there. As far as calling out to my mom, that was my repressed desire for my mom to save me from myself...as a child I had to spend long periods of time in a crib with no human contact, that aggressive, dark and mean bull in me was the black hole that was taking over my psyche or at least what I was afraid of taking over and in retrospect that black dark force of a bull has taken over my life many times...in smoking, drinking, spending too much and debt, depression, anxiety...all of which represent the big black mean aggressive bull in me that my desire for my mom's protection and not getting that desire fulfilled created. Fear. It is still about fear.

Ami

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2009, 02:42:16 PM »
I melted down in to utter worthlessness, today. Last night, I said Goodbye(in my own mind) to my parents, to being their D. I cried to God to lift me up as the Scripture says"When my M and F forsake me, the Lord will lift me up."
He promises and I take that promise on faith.
 As far as the primal nature, I think about that all the time. I think what happened in abused people vs not abused people is that our N's USED our primal nature as a WEAPON against us to show us were bad. Then, we accepted this self concept, surrounded it with shame and tried to be perfect so no one would see our flawed self and hurt us again.
 I know from talking to my Aunt that she is not blown away by her primal nature. My guitar teacher is not either. They accept primal feelings as human NOT bad. That,in a nutshell, is where I think *I* got off track.       Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

farfaraway

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2009, 03:19:00 PM »

Right now, this is how I'm defining what "let it go" means:

I don't HAVE TO stop thinking about it "forever"...
I only have to stop letting "it" (and "it" can be anything) control my feelings, thoughts and actions... control "me"...
to have let something go

I'd love to know what you think about this, whether any of it makes sense to you and if you have anything to add, or clarify on this "theory".

I am struggling with one, what do I need, and for sure I keep having these thoughts wake me up, daily activities remind me of the shock, letting go is so hard, I guess when I go to bed, I am sometimes in a relaxed zone, where I can just release the trauma stuff and really sleep.  This is what I want at time, is true peace, cause when it happens things or elements that are there, it is like being content even if the chaos is all around, at that moment it is not around me.  I is also glowing in peace, like I am gonna be okay, I am a worthy human being, when it happens I believe it.  I can Love others and not have to justify it, I can forgive and place those that hurt me in a place where I can gain some space.  I am rambling again, bottom line I want to fit in my humanness and belong comfortably in that place where I am not just surviving I am living art.

Farfaraway

Gabben

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Re: Question: What are we hungry for?
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2009, 03:28:13 PM »
I am living art.

Farfaraway, indeed.