Bringing out the worst in us...

[Gabben]

My NM married her history professor after she returned to college at the age of 42. This was her third marriage. The history professor was just about the nicest guy I had ever met, smart, quiet, sophisticated, dignified. Once,I questioned him about why he married my mom, which is another story.

Anyway, I never in a million years thought that I would see my mom's 3 husband, the history professor, act the ways that he acted after his marriage. Sadly, he and my NM are no longer together. What always hurt me the most was watching my mom's 3 husband lose his dignity and act like a fool out of his pure frustration and pain.

N's really do bring out the worst in us.

I've seen my ugliest sides in dealing the N's in my life in the last two years. Especially the NT. I used to be sweet and nonverbal about so much, maintaining my dignity was a priority for me, I knew that no matter what I could always at least act decent. But all that was lost in the last two years and it pains me.

I suppose much of the repressed frustration of dealing with the NT was related to my upbringing. I can look back on my childhood and see a very quiet and gracious child, even in the face of intense abuse and neglect. I wish I could be that way now, I wish I could had the gracious, hopeful inner strength Cinderella had without my voice needing to express so much that is not gracious and hopeful.

I beat myself up but I forget that that is part of the N tactics in life, they want to force their emotional disfigurement on us so that they can, silently, acting in covert aggression, knowing full well how to push our buttons, get us frustrated, losing it, and then point the finger at us saying "look she is the aggressor!"

Does anyone else have a story of how the N has brought out the worst in you?

[sKePTiKal]

I've seen my ugliest sides in dealing the N's in my life in the last two years. Especially the NT. I used to be sweet and nonverbal about so much, maintaining my dignity was a priority for me, I knew that no matter what I could always at least act decent. But all that was lost in the last two years and it pains me.

This speaks volumes to me - especially today. Why is it, that Ns can make us stoop to their level... just to try to get through to them about what they've done to us? As if they cared... you know?

(((((((LISE)))))))))
(((((((everyone else)))))))

But, I'm not going to just give in to the pain and let it overwhelm me - feel it, acknowledge it, yes. But I absolutely refuse - a major boundary - to act like them, or act like my situation is so hopeless, and that I have no choice. There is always choice - not always pleasant - but there is always choice. Since nothing I can do or say or be will change them... I can only honor myself by choosing to not be at that level... not hurting myself to simply vent the feelings that aren't acknowledged by the one causing the pain.

It doesn't seem like much... but maybe it is. It is what I CAN do.

[Gabben]

Since nothing I can do or say or be will change them... I can only honor myself by choosing to not be at that level... not hurting myself to simply vent the feelings that aren't acknowledged by the one causing the pain.

This is a focus point for me today and one that is dredging up intense pain. The pain of what it was like to be an object to be played with, which exactly how the N's treat us. They have no regard for our pain, it is as you say, I can only honor my pain, I can only regard my pain and trying to get the N's to is pointless and a waste of energy that usually just brings out the worst in me.

My whole body feels the intense pain of what it is like to be seen as an object, not a person with feelings.


Ugh....my chest and heart are just in pain, the pain of what it was like to be treated like an object. The pain of being ignored, the pain of being the "bad" one, the pain of feeling like the "bad one" the pain of abandonment and unfulfilled hunger, the wounds are so deep and primal. I want to make them about the present but they are really about the past.

There is an intense fear that is coming up for me, as I keep moving into these wounds, I can feel the fear that the little baby girl in me had about showing and expressing herself...that is why I repressed all of this in the first place, to not be abandoned. Today I am terrified that I am going to be abandoned for my expression of pain, again, because sometimes my expression of my pain is so ugly.

Oh well, I may just be, but I know that I do not have abandon myself - God never abandons me.

[sKePTiKal]

Nope, not today. I'm right there with ya... you're not alone.

How I got here today is too long; not relevant, really. It's important to nail down just what your fear is, I think... because I think you'll find - as I have - that there isn't anything to fear once you KNOW what that fear is. Once you can name it... you can face that pain, too... breathe in and out the reality... and go on - letting that go, too. I'm trying... it's not easy.

[Gabben]

Thanks Amber...this board is amazing for me, writing out this stuff teaches me a lot about myself. I know that we are not to use the board as a substitute for therapy but having the freedom to voice what I need to voice, even if it is repetitious, is so healing; it allows me to see the underlying issues to get to the "what is really going on" stuff, under and into the pain and fears rather than staying with the broken record stuff of NT and whatever...etc.

I want to be free of the past and sometimes the way to do that is to go back in and FULLY experience the past using the present triggers to help understand the story. For me, it is always messy and ugly, but I know that there is good and beauty in me too, especially if I just keep staying with my pain, honoring myself and letting what is be what is.

[Ami]

I beat myself up but I forget that that is part of the N tactics in life, they want to force their emotional disfigurement on us so that they can, silently, acting in covert aggression, knowing full well how to push our buttons, get us frustrated, losing it, and then point the finger at us saying "look she is the aggressor!"
 


 I was  thinking about this, today."They  want to force their emotional disfigurement on us." You said it just right----simply and concisely. We were blank slates but took ALL their vile lies  b/c we HAD to in order not to be murdered by the N's.
 Lise, as I heal I see how much worse my parents were than I ever  comprehended. I was like water, a pure liquid, and they put foul sewerage in it.
 It was that bad. Our having as many problems as we had was a linear and logical thing. We were  forced to eat their lies. We were force fed things that were NOT ours.
 We were force fed all types of evil about who we were. Undoing it is the hard thing, of course,but seeing it is the first step.
            Ami

[sKePTiKal]

S'OK, Lise... it's not repetitious, if it's what we have to do to finally get past it.

For me, and my situation... I think I've gotten there, today. It all comes down to responsibility... what am I responsible for?
Well....  me, my feelings and my behavior.

I experience pain, when in a situation where someone else is trying to make me responsible for their feelings, actions or responsible for "fixing" them... or when they are projecting on me, what they themselves are doing, but are in self-righteous denial about it. I can stop that kind of pain, by simply realizing that only they are responsible for their own "mess". I can still care that they feel that way... but it's not my job... my mission in life... to show them how to fix it or fix it for them. Everyone has to find their own way. (This situation I've been struggling with for the past few days, is all about my brother.)

Need, for me, is different than pain. Need, I can deal with... I can "go get" or ask for what it is I need. The two are distinct and separate. For me, need doesn't hurt... but I don't always know what it is I need... so there's a lot of trial and error... and mistakes.

I hope you find what it is you need and that the pain goes away.

[Gabben]

I can stop that kind of pain, by simply realizing that only they are responsible for their own "mess".

This is really powerful for me to read...big help. I have carried my mom and other N's in my life as if I am God and their savior, it is up to me to help them or change them, NOT.

Just taking that in is a huge weight off of my shoulders.

[Ami]

How are you doing, today, Lise?          Ami

[Gabben]

Hi Ami,

It is 5:33 AM here, I have been awake for awhile, not sleeping well these days. But I am hopeful despite the pain I have been in; this too shall pass  

I'm in the old buried grief of baby neglect memories. My inner baby was neglected and denied comfort and empathy, she she was shut out of love and it was excruciating for her. She had no choice but to marinate in baby hostility. However, I, as an adult refuse to be hostile, I just do not want to be or act on any anger in my heart that is related to the wound of neglect...

As I grieve the loss of comfort and empathy from my mom I break down were I am in the grieving process, currently, I am still in the bargaining stage, asking myself "do I really want to let this go, do I really want to give up the desires for comfort and empathy?" The hanging on is painful and I am working to hit another layer of grief. It has only been a week since I uncovered this deeper layer of core wounding and loss yet I have been telling myself that I should be over it and moved on, but our little hearts move much slower than our minds or our NM's introjections.

Ami - I wrote a letter of amends, that letter I was telling you about...finally.  I went to Mass yesterday and while there I felt God come over me like a correcting parent, His presence was so strong and forceful in directing me to fully admit my side of the street and clean it up. He was "tough love." After Mass there was nothing that I could think about but writing that letter and moving on. I did it. Afterwards I could feel grace pouring in, as if God was saying "thank you and good girl."  Clarity came into my being; I had forgotten how powerful and freeing amends are. I even opened the door for reconciliation, I am doubtful but open to whatever God wants.

I feel a hundred times better, free of the whole drama and put back in grace and faith. Words like patience, hope, faith and charity came back into my world as if God was talking to me, reminding me of what is really important and were my focus should be.

So now I feel like I am going to tackle letting go some more, ouch, but the pain is really always in the resistance to the pain.

Hugs,
Lise

[Gabben]

Ami - how are you doing?

[Gabben]

As I grieve the loss of comfort and empathy from my mom I break down were I am in the grieving process, currently, I am still in the bargaining stage, asking myself "do I really want to let this go, do I really want to give up the desires for comfort and empathy?"

Moving out of anger and bargaining and now moving into sorrow....loss is just loss, it hurts.

[Ami]

Dear Lise
 Why did the history prof. say he married your M?      Ami

[Gabben]

He said that he married her because she was honest and real.

To clarify...the mom I write here on the board about is my NM from the past, she is not that N anymore. She sure has her stuff, but from who she was to who she is now is a far stretch.

My mom CAN be honest and real. Then she will relaspe back into old N stuff, just like I do to.

My mom was in 12 step recovery and was honest about herself when she met the H Pro.

I dunno, at least that is what he told me.

[Ami]

Dear Lise
 I am so glad you feel better after the letter of amends. I think it shows  that we know what to do in our deepest gut and have to follow it. If we do, it will turn out well.
 One of the biggest things the NM did was make us doubt ourselves so badly and think we were BAD so all our perceptions filter through,"I am bad."
 Then, we feel that we can't trust ourselves. That ,in a nutshell is what I think happened to us.
 To reverse the damage, we have to keep having the courage to follow our hearts, even though it is scary and uncertain.We will make mistakes in judgement but must go on.
 If we have a person who can oull us out of the shame spiral, then it is so much easier. Alice Miller calls it an Enlightened Witness.
 For me,I am finally growing after many years of being numb(since age 14 when I gave up and took on my M's reality, with the help of my F)
 My whole house was supposed to make the N feel good about herself. That was the rule and all that did not fall under the rule was decimated. That meant that I could not have a self that I trusted.
 However, now I feel like I am resuming life as I did at 14. Maybe, I am NOT bad. Maybe, I am a flawed, self centered, egocentric human being who has to try to walk in the Spirit .
 I have been getting out a lot and it has really been helping.
 When I am with a group of people, I think about the Board. If I can manage my way around here, 3D will be fine!      XXOOO  Ami