Author Topic: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition  (Read 7022 times)

sKePTiKal

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Re: DEEP PONDERING
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2009, 01:10:19 PM »
From:
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/06/28/conscience-self-preservation-narcissist


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The Narcissist has NO warning system, no internal traffic signals, no alarm bells. The narcissist does what he wants regardless of the pain he or she is inflicting upon others. The only time the narcissist might consider his options is whether or not he will be inconvenienced and therefore unable to continue his games in society, he does not stop for guilt he does not stop for shame , nor remorse. The green light is always ON for the disordered it is "One for all and all for one" with the psychopath.

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Kathy Krajco said:

"When you cannot resist, you at least have the comfort of knowing that there was nothing you could do. But when you have the power to put up some resistance and don't - when you in effect say, "Here, take me and do what you will with me" - you feel like an abject worm."

"For, what does it mean when a person accepts pain for another's pleasure? That goes against the instinct for self-preservation. So what happens to the victim's self? The victim no longer belongs to him- or her-self. The victim is possessed by the abuser. Like an arm or leg of his for him to use or abuse as he pleases. It is the ultimate degradation..."


The bolded phrases are identical to bits of Twiggy's story... words she herself used telling her story. Something big is being pried loose; falling off. Why is it, just when you think "you've got it" - there's more?

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"Introjection" is shown whenever an individual treats him or her-self as he or she was treated by important others... If the parents do not care about them, children are unlikely to care about themselves....If parents blame them, then they blame themselves.

from: http://books.google.com/books?id=Ht8wJUfrSNMC&pg=RA1-PA200&lpg=RA1-PA200&dq=introjection+disorder&source=bl&ots=88ULsz_0Zr&sig=QMloD9u12D7QQZ8ErnDmrqQHfUc&hl=en&ei=7f6XSsOzKofglAfCxOi_BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=introjection%20disorder&f=false


Introjection most often has a partner: Projection.

Whatever it is that Twiggy/I am thinking... it's non-verbal right now. But these quotes are all important clues - puzzle pieces - that are trying to tell me something. It's all coming together in the context of watching this repetition in my brother's situation - my mom's weird involvement/experience - and the work I've been doing on intention + smoking.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2009, 01:36:45 PM »
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Why is it, just when you think "you've got it" - there's more?

the truth of this statement is a dagger to my soul.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2009, 01:40:32 PM »
yeah! I know what you mean...

but I meant it in the good sense... something is getting "fixed"... not more yucky stuff.
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teartracks

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2009, 01:45:56 PM »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2009, 03:10:21 PM »
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Introjection and Projection are powerful tools against unsuspecting victims, and may seem less real, and thus less important if left unidentified. Naming these tactics can help to negate their power, and expose them as a charlatan's trick.

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Introjection
Introjection occurs where a subject takes into itself the behaviors, attributes or other external objects, especially of other people.
A common pattern is where a child introjects aspects of parents into its own persona.
According to Freud, the ego and the superego are constructed by introjecting external behavior into the subject's own persona.
This can be a defense mechanism where one takes on attributes of a strong other person who is able to cope with the current threat. It is based on an unconscious phantasy of ingestion.

Introjection is not as primitive as incorporation, as it often involved drawing an object in, but not incorporating it into the body. An introjected object is drawn into the 'inner circle', but can still have a life of its own.

Introjective identification is the taking in of someone else's good objects. This occurs with people we like or admire.
Introjection is thus 'input' into the internal world from the outer world.


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Incorporation is derived from the Latin incorporare, meaning ‘to form into a body'. It is perhaps the most basic form of taking the outside world into the inner world, being focused on bodily sensation and ingestion.

Although this need not mean actual bodily ingestion, this term is used to explain the way that incorporation is experienced and conceived. By bringing something into the body, I make it undeniably a part of the physical, solid and real me. Once incorporated, it cannot be separated from me, but I can choose what to do with it, including destroying or expelling it. ... Freud used incorporation to refer to a primitive wish to unite with or cannibalistically destroy an object.

Thank you, tt... I'm still not sure where I'm going with this; only that I feel it's really important. It's one of those things that I have to let settle around me and see how it "fits"... and whether it "fits".

GOD... I just had an AWFUL thought: OK, more than one... really quickly, so that it seemed like one thought...PLEASE don't think I'm crazy...

for some time, I've felt like I am reliving Twiggy's year - the one with all the trauma in it... including the "shunning" phase... and the final "putting Twiggy in the box". Anniversary dates are flashing by; my aunt who helped me so much died in June '69... the July 4, 1969 flood, Woodstock - 8-15-69... and of course, around this week or perhaps next week, I would've started school and the "deed" had been done to Twiggy. Chronology has been immensely important to me throughout all the healing process, because the dissociation I suffered got things all mixed up in order. July/August would've been the time I split all of my emotions off - put Twiggy in the box.

I just had the most intense emotional experience last week; grieving for an old friend who died last year. We were laughing at video of his standup comedy - he was totally hilarious in a "not politically correct" way. We were reminiscing - and I suppose grieving all the life and losses of the last 40 years between us. He was married to my best friend... I've known her since the 7th grade; met her in fact, around this time in 1969. We spent the evening diving into all kinds of emotional past history with each other... and my cigarettes "magically" didn't get smoked. I had almost a full pack the next morning. (Hops - take note! there might be something to my theory about emotions/smoking and SAFETY...)

I spoke to my brother last night, and he brought up the fact that he may be separating from his wife sooner rather than later. I begged him to take his kids with him. He told me the details... of what my mother had referred to, when I started this thread... he had pulled out old video/home movies of my niece who was clowning around and being silly in the shower. Everyone was laughing, but my nephew couldn't contain himself - he got the giggles and couldn't stop. It's one of the true joys of being alive at any age, right? Well, that just set my SIL off - and she started spanking him, telling him stop-stop-stop... that he was being mean; there was nothing funny about laughing at someone like that... he shouldn't be laughing at ALL... it was insulting - i.e., it was insulting HER. Poor kid had no idea what he did, that was so wrong - everyone else, except her - was laughing.

This is what my mother was referring to; that was "so wrong"... that the kid would start to blame himself 'coz his mother has issues. Like my mother - 40 years ago - with me.

I have this really bizarre sense of watching - from the outside - what happened to me 40 years ago, happen all over again. I don't like it...(hell, it's starting to trigger something) but I also don't feel like I'm completely in control of it. Something in me IS getting fixed, but I don't know what. I keep reminding myself... that there is a boundary I can't cross... it's my brother's family situation; not mine... but I keep feeling prompted into action... responsibility...

... but it's all in some subtexted, subliminal, underlying blender of "coincidence", "synchronicity", and emotion. And what - besides the usual innocent victim role she assumes - is my mother's part in that whole scenario?? In creating the situation. Even my brother remarked how he felt like my Dad who lived with constant, all-out war between his wife and his mother... repetition AGAIN... and I told him to get the kids away where they could be themselves, without fear... and to stop working so much and just spend time with the kids.

OK, before this blows into a complete panic attack... I'm going to let it go for the time being. That thing that seems to be triggered & looming over me, is the sense of "foreboding doom" that Twiggy had 40 years ago, that presaged her disappearance until a couple years ago. I just hope that this is pure speculative fear... and that there isn't something more in these odd coincidences and repetitions - in the pattern - that I should be more conscious of and am decidedly not, right now.

I think I'm just plain old spooked by the similarities.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

teartracks

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2009, 07:52:04 PM »



Hi PR,

This might be a stupid question and I don't know if it will spark any insight into your mother or your SIL, but if you'd been able to say one thing to your mother 40 years ago when you put Twiggy in the box, what would it have been?   What would you have preferred her response to be?

tt

Hopalong

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2009, 11:06:26 PM »
Steady on, girl.
YOU ARE OKAY.

Here's what I'm thinking...

as spooky as it feels, it is actually normal as mud for cycles like this to echo down the generations.

Even wierdly down to details, echoes, similarities, synchronicities, odd little things that are like ripples, all spreading out from the same tossed rock.

(An emotionally disabled parent is like a rock, tossed into the pool of a child's psyche...)

I think you are right that very sad things are happening in your brother's family.

But it is not happening to you, and the reverberations might be confusing you into thinking it's happening to you again. It's NOT.

It makes great sense...think about animals, how the kits and pups and such grow up to walk like, have the same yip as, weird funny personalized habits or movements as, the parent animal. It's uncanny, and behavioral stuff is no different...it ripples on out into time.

BUT YOU ARE WELL, AMBER.

I am very sorry for the kids, and for him. What they need, if anything makes sense, is a NON-disabled aunt.

If you can be steady and detached for them, sure, you can try to be a safe place, an anchor, or a sounding board.

But I hazard you know you can't do that if it is going to undermine your health that you have worked so hard and so valiantly to build.

You did build it, too. Your healing's no mirage.

And the other thing...you are one strong, intelligent, creative, gifted, phenomenal human being. Look what you've been through. You are life on legs.

And your niece and nephew have inherited the good stuff too. They can weather their lives. I promise.

They'll love having Aunt Amber, too. Having her well and sane and serene in their lives, when that can be.

'Kay? You take care of yourself, please...

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2009, 06:41:06 AM »
Thanks, sweeties...

I realize I have to shift my gaze to something else for a bit... increase the distance in my boundary with brother, just enough, to let myself breathe... and let this settle, for the time being. It's not going anywhere, now is it? This past month, we've had daily conversations... business related, mostly... but still: I feel like a fish and there is bait, lures, being subtly wafted past me to get me "hooked" into the game again. That's the source of my panic, for sure - so hey - I have learned how to avoid that and can protect myself. ALWAYS they've taken advantage of the fact that I care... always, that's been my weakness; I can still care - but that doesn't mean giving up all to help.

Once I've rested, refreshed, and started looking out into my own changed future (we're property shopping at the beach, end of Sept) then it'll be time to see what is lurking under this rock. Maybe I'll be able to return to this in a few days... or weeks. It's not going anywhere.

THANK YOU.

tt: I would've said:

"THERE. I did what you want. NOW are you happy??"

and she would've criticized something, or mumbled something to herself, or somehow found a way to completely ignore me.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2009, 07:23:55 AM »
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But it is not happening to you, and the reverberations might be confusing you into thinking it's happening to you again. It's NOT.

Thanks for this, Hops. It steadied things for me. I am still "digesting" and ruminating on this... a little at a time...

the whole situation of projection, introjection, incorporation and transference is what Twiggy described as being in a world of
"fun house mirrors". I suppose it's also related to the time frames I've described as "dissociation", too... in places. Twiggy happened onto a Life mag article back then, that described people's first experiences with LSD... and she could definitely understand, because of the "fun house mirrors".

I need to let Twiggy think about those quotes/definitions above. And then she can tell me... explain it all... to herself and to me.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 03:41:59 PM »
Yer very welcome, hon.

Love and steadying hugs to da both of you.

xxoo

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2009, 08:22:10 PM »
Your SIL's really whacked, Amber.

Assaulting a child for laughing :(

I feel so badly for him.

Mo2


BonesMS

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2009, 09:01:57 AM »
Beating a 5-year-old for BEING a 5-year-old?!?!?

That is SICK and TWISTED!!!!!

Bones
Back Off Bug-A-Loo!

Gaining Strength

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2009, 11:10:05 AM »
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I think I'm just plain old spooked by the similarities.

I think this is an opportunity - for more profound healing.  It is not easy, not welcomed but it is here and Twiggy is being summoned again.  You are stronger than you have been before.  Now, with renewed strength, you are being summoned to go back in and observe.  Stay with PR in her newly developed understanding and strength and be there for Twiggy but do not meld back into Twiggy.  Twiggy will be summoning you in like a powerful vortex but you do not need to give in to her siren call.  Stand firm as PR today and observe and in that place you can actually summon Twiggy out of her danger and comfort and heal her.

This is part of the healing.  But keep focused and clear and do not enmesh with Twiggy again.  You do not need to in order to have a clear perspective on how to guide her and hold her and comfort her and empathize with her.  That is where the healing will come - from you remaining objectively PR.

Love to you and courage.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2009, 11:12:46 AM »
Agreed, Mo2 and Bones... sick and twisted indeed.

But that is what happens to a child who is supposed to accept the projected thoughts & feelings - dare I say identity?? - of an abusive parent. They are punished for being themselves - and punished in subtler ways - for doing what the parent unconsciously demands: to be as maladjusted, emotionally dead, and self-destructive as the abuser him/herself. And the child simply doesn't have the tools to know what is happening to him or her... it's beyond their realm of possibility or concept, except in sci-fi, horror movies, superstition, or fairy tales.

Hops & TT:
I've pressed on with this topic... in my journal. I am closer than ever to understanding and being able to talk about it, coherently. The fear is receding quickly, with it's tail between it's legs. Got it's nasty ass kicked. I'm gonna have a lot to say, pretty soon... maybe a retelling of Twiggy's story from the framework of introjection, incorporation, transference and projection. I was right; there was something HUGE that's being pulled off this time - and there was a reason for my morbid obsession with the topics of those quotes. Right now, the huge thing is still trying to suffocate me under it's weight... but at least I now have clarity of who/what the "enemy" is... and how to neutralize it, more effectively this time.

In the meantime, I have a new mantra... "joyful abandonment". It'll have to remain cryptic, until I have time to fully explain... but it's all good.

GS: I found the second loop within the doublebind... the loop within the loop... and I'm able to hack the programming code, to disable it. And it's absolutely essential that I embrace Twiggy - she IS ME, after all. I will explain fully, once it all settles into place... the whole POINT is to be Twiggy; Twiggy all grown up now.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Very, very, very strange - weird, even - FOO repetition
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2009, 12:30:44 PM »
I do see what you mean.  You go into Twiggy to bring her forward to adulthood.

I am doing similar and yet opposite - taking grown me into the childhood memory and revisioning it.  I was putting out my own fear of being sucked back into that wretched vortex of powerlessness, hopelessness, willingness to attach myself to the ship which appears so secure and yet is sinking fast.

When you are able please write about the loop within the loop.  I am in the midst, working with the code, working on cracking it - the second loop of the doublebind.  It is a solitary plights and yet I do feel as though there is a parallel universe in which you are working on a chore so similar and I feel connected.