Dissociation

[Ami]

I have been reading books about Multiples. Thank God, I am not an actual multiple but I feel like I am one step before that. They have gradations of dissociation from day dreaming to fugue states where you forget time.
 I have not been connected to my emotions  since 14.
 I remember the one time of actual sexual abuse with my M. Maybe, there were more. I don't know but there was always ambient sexual abuse and she always her tried to shock and scare.
 I feel there are many different parts of me which I write about in Blackie/Whitie.
 One book says that Dissociation is not mental illness just natural defense mechanisms to survive trauma.
 I think I just shut down parts to survive.
 Can any one relate?     Ami


PS This is not a professional discussion  just my layman's POV for myself.

[Izzy_*now*]

I understand this, as it is me. I read this the other day.

http://www.psych-net.com/dissociation.html

The essential feature of a Dissociative Disorder is a disruption in the usually integrated functions of consciousness, memory, identity, or perception of the environment. The disturbance may be sudden or gradual, transient or chronic. In other words, an event is processed in a way that breaks up the pieces of the event into differing states of consciousness.

Dissociation is common and nearly everyone experiences mild dissociation from time to time. If you have ever had the experience of driving somewhere, and suddenly you realize that you have little or no memory of driving the last few minutes. Perhaps you even passed your exit. Your driving ability wasn't hindered because the mind was still utilizing the part of the brain that was needed to drive the car. However, instead of your thinking-mind focusing on the driving, it was somewhere else. That is dissociation. Daydreaming is a very mild form of dissociation.

On the other end of the dissociation-continuum, dissociation is often a way for the brain to tear apart the sensations, or the memory of a traumatic event in order to survive the situation with as little damage as possible. For instance, the actual memory might be put so far back in the subconscious mind, that it is perceived as being forgotten. However, the body sensations may still be present and may be experienced from time to time as somatic eruptions, body memories. The feelings related to the trauma may be "switched off," generally taking with it the individual's ability to experience other feelings later in life.

And a recent example for me is when the car struck me. It hit my 'chair at a point about even with my mid-thigh (and that is about 2 feet to the tips of my toes) This is low speed impact and I saw my chair being pushed and I couldn't go backwards, although I tried. I do NOT remember toppling over, shooting through the air, getting up and trying to run: whatever happened I do not remember
Then I felt the pain of the break in my leg, as I was already lying on my left side on the ground, and I was not in my chair. I sense that I blocked out the fact that I again was going to be hurt by a car, and I had NO head injuries.

Izzy

[Ami]

(((((Izzy)))))   Thanks, Izzy!                                                                 Ami

[Nonameanymore]

Hi Ami,

Did you ever attend a CODA meeting?
I think most of us daughters or Ns are pretty much codependent.
I attended in London for 2 years, then another 3 years on and off.
It was amazing because I could feel everybody's feeling but mine.
When I started going there, you had to check in by saying your name and how you feel. It was really difficult for me, and I hoped to speak towards the end and I always rehearsed what I would say, because I had no idea.
12 steps are a lot about 'feeling your feelings.

I know you're talking about dissociation here but I think CODA principles are relevant to the way you feel - I feel 'numb' very often, its; my way of coping when things get too much and I shut down unable to feel anything.

Hope this helps and you won't find completely irrelevant!

P xxx

[Ami]

Your ideas are not irrelevant (((P)))). They are important! Thank you. I am so relieved that people are sharing with me. I felt like I was an alien when I realized I was dissociated. I felt afraid. I am so glad you all understand.                                 xxxoo  Ami

[Twoapenny]

Hi Ami,

I recognise some of myself in what you're saying.  I have lapses in memory (sometimes enormous chunks - 12 to 17 is very vague for me), I day dream an awful lot and often have a sense of watching myself in a situation rather than being in it (if that makes any sense?).  I have had, and still have infrequently, these odd states where I seem to wake up and have no recollection at all of what's happened in the last two to three hours.  I don't know whether they are fugue states or something else.  I live in the area I grew up in and will often be talking to people who retell an event I was part of that I have no memory off.  People I recognise greet me effusively and it turns out I used to spend a lot of time with them when I was a kid - I don't remember.  I sometimes see people I think I know really well, only to find they don't remember me at all.

I don't know if all of that is disassociatioin but it does make me feel disorientated and very alone at times.  I was talking to my T yesterday about feeling like I'm two different people - one who is trying to be a good mum and be respectable and responsible, and the real me, who wants to just lie under a bush all day drinking and having no connection to the real world or any kind of responsibility.

As for feelings - that is always so tough for me.  I can talk about what I think endlessly - but when it comes to what I feel I am often just numb.  When I think back to childhood there are pockets where I can recall feeling things.  I remember being terrified when a boy tried to pull my knickers down - I was about seven.  And I remember my mum laughing hysterically when I ran home crying about it.  I remember feeling terribly ashamed and humiliated - you know that phrase when your cheeks are burning?  That was exactly how I felt.  I didn't recall that incident until I was about thirty five.  I remember a sort of high tension mount when my stepdad's truck pulled up outside the house because that meant it was showtime - bright, bubbly feelings only, keep out of the way, contact is possible if I am funny, charming, good fun and interested in their day, but I'm not to talk about myself, ask questions or be down, sad, angry etc.  So I can remember a kind of tightening in my belly and almost like taking a deep breath to make myself ready for the performance.  But I don't remember owning a feeling?  Other than getting it wrong a lot, when I'd feel  like I'd let everyone down again and then I'd have to try harder.

Hugs to you ((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Ami]

Thank you (((((Twoapenny))))

I don't feel so alone when you tell me your account. I am reading a tremendous book called  Switching Time. It is told from the POV of the therapist treating a woman with 17 alters.
 What is really interesting is that it shows how trauma produces the alters simply by the person not being able to endure it. It is not really mental illness but a coping mechanism for trauma too severe to endure.
 I ordered 4 more books on it so will tell you about them after I read them.              xxxxoooooo  Ami

[English]

Question:

Is it dissociation when you curl up in a ball and CANNOT respond to the other person?  I did this a few times with my T years ago when talking about my NF.  We quit talking about him so the problem stopped.  I mean I could hear what he was saying, but I could not move or talk.  It disipated after about 10 minutes little by little.

I too have huge chunks of memory missing.  What I'm saddest about is that I don't remember much of my son's childhood.  Oh, how I wish I hadn't lost that.

[Ami]

Thank you (((English)))) for responding.
 I don't know the answers to questions cuz it is a whole new field for me. It is like N when I first found the Board. I, finally, had the answer to what in the Hell was wrong with my M.
 Now, i am finding what is wrong with me.
 I don't think I am "mentally ill". I think I am numb from trauma.
 This is wonderful to find out BUT it is so hard and exhausting to see the various parts and try to put them in to a whole.
  I am glad I am not alone with friends like you and the other Board members. We will do it together!         xxxooo   Ami

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Ami

How Interesting that you have reached this point, in examining yourself, and 'No' you are not mentally ill

I, too, after my experiences with Ns, or other toxic types, began my self-examination by asking myself, what it was about me that I 'attract'/am attracted to these 'toxics' in my lfe, and my first 2 answers were that I had no basic boundaries, and to have those and keep them I had to stick up for (assert) myself. So I worked on that while maintaining No contact with the N/toxic--I use the toxic word for those who are just that, toxic to me but not necessarily a full blown N.

Then as you are doing, I read different articles on how a young child would know to 'tune out' abuse, both physical and emotional, but I had pretty well guessed that the trauma was too much and an automatic defense system comes into play which knocks out that memory. I can see too how the 'alters' come into play. I don't think I have any, yet I recall 2-3 occasions when I had to give a speech. I was prepared with my material but not to face the crowd, and all 3 times I did well, but don't remember giving the speech. This would be a mild example of "some other part of me' doing it, and doing it right!

I don't have enough 'gaps' in my life to believe I 'split'.

and Twoapenny
The gaps that you speak of are more indicative to me of your living a different way, like from 12-17. Don't think I am saying that you split! That is for a therapist to determine but to me my lack of gaps tell me I didn't split. What does your therapist say about these areas you mentioned in your post? I would be interested to know!

English
I can relate to the ball example and the inability to respond. Something so traumatic was happening to me, for instance a long raging session from an N, or a beating and raging from my father, that I was frozen in place and all of me ended up in a ball at the pit of my stomach. Just stunned speechless and motionless.

Hang in all

Izzy

[Ami]

Thank you ,Izzy.                                                                         Ami

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I don't think I have ever had a dissociative experience (although some things I wish I could "compartmentalize" that way) but I think my hubby might tend to dissociation. He has had an episode of acute stress disorder (like short term PTSD) after seeing someone die. Also, when he was little his mom lost a pregnancy in the fifth month. Apparently there was lots of blood and he had to bring her towels and stuff. He doesn't remember that at all, but he does remember seeing his mother at the hospital window afterwards.

Interesting follow up is that he became an obstetrician.

[Ami]

Dear Heart,
. That makes sense. I think in order to dissociate you must have trauma that is too hard for you to handle. It sounds like he did.
   I guess the trauma can be different for different people. Mine was the day to day life wth my M, I think.     xxxoo  Ami