Reactions to relatives when NC

[swimmer]

Yes, it's starting now.... My step brother called me and "suggested" I call my mother because she doesn't feel loved.  Gag me already..... I have a family to take care of in this difficult recession!  I calmly told him priorities change when you have children, & I don't have the bandwidth to be her keeper. 

Of couse I didn't sleep well last night, thinking I'm a horrible person.  But I'm keenly reminded this is the very reason I'm NC with her.  My husband and daughter need my attention, and my mother is trying to send messages through my step brother, blah blah blah.  My mother was sick in the hospital, and it was the perfect opportunity for her to reel everyone in my family.... thinking I'm the horrible daughter.  Well.... I'd rather be the horrible daughter to her, than the emotionally unavailable wife and mother to my own daughter. 

I'm so grateful to have this connection to this forum.  Just having being able to spill this out to a group who will read it and understand really helps me relax.  Thx for reading this.

Swimmer

[KatG]

Well.... I'd rather be the horrible daughter to her, than the emotionally unavailable wife and mother to my own daughter. 

((Sigh))  They do make us choose, don't they?

[Sealynx]

Triangulating by using a third person to "get at" someone, especially in the family, is very common with N's. Once siblings start arguing the focus shifts quickly from the inappropriateness of the original behavior to that of who is the best son or daughter. It reignites old sibling rivalry issues that have no place in issue at hand. After the fighting  starts, all the N has to do is sit back and look innocent as if they had nothing to do with it!

[swimmer]

Yes we must choose, but for ourselves.  This is what makes NC or LC (low contact) a dignified option.  Of course it will never look like the right option to the N, or people who don't understand the narcissist tricks.  It's an exponential snowball effect.... The worse the N, the more easily relatives, siblings and close family friends will be fooled as well.

Thx Sealynx for reminding me there is a name for this as well... triagulation.  My NM is a master at this.  Often my mother never even "lifts a finger" so to speak, and suddenly people are not so close anymore.  Then this gives my NM a double narcissistic feed.  I just am trying to remember to not respond, it's pretty easy cause my MM has literally used me up, there is nothing left inside me to give to her anymore, after all these years.  It helps so much to put terms on these things, like triagulation and narcisstic feed.  Otherwise I still think I'm dreaming it up.   

[Ami]

(((Swimmer))))

People outside this forum do not usually understand N. You have to have lived it, really, to understand .People will blame you cuz it is easier than facing how bad the N really is.
 It is the rare family member who will be on your side. I understand how awful it is!!!  x o x o  Ami

[Sealynx]

Swimmer,
I think that feeling of dreaming it up and doubting ourselves comes from their behavior being so unbelievable.

It is like watching a TV show where the main character has no clear motivation for the trouble they cause, other than liking to cause trouble. That series wouldn't last a season!!

I feel this lack of apparent "meaningful motive" causes us trouble all the way around because friends who might otherwise support us often don't "get it". They can't understand meanness that lacks a strong motivating factor. Attention just doesn't seem "enough" of a reason to dis a child and create such a huge issue. And of course there is always that innocent act when confronted.

I've been reading a good book on brain development and how the parts involved in empathy develop evolve or don't as the case may be (Mindsight: The New Science of Personal Transformation by Siegel). The more I read, the more I feel that this is a brain disorder with predominate negative mood and not just a personality disorder.  While this may explain some things...the solution is still the same.  Stay out of range of them.

[BonesMS]

(((((((((((((((((((Swimmer))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Bones

[swimmer]

KatG, Sealnyx, Bones & Ami.... So nice to hear your words of wisdom and validation:)

The situation which surrounds NC is pretty complicated with relatives and close friends.... Or maybe it doesn't need to be.  If a given friend or relative is dependant upon my "connection" with my mother to be on my life, maybe that is a relationship I don't want to entertain anyways.  It just goes back to minding your manners and own business.  It doesn't matter to me if people from my family are loyal to my mother, just don't step on me.

  I'm going through the process of thinking, do I explain myself to maintain contact with the rest of my family?  I don't think I should have to.  Most of my family understand how my NM is.  The trouble comes when people think, I can handle this person.... Why can't she?  If person isn't emotionally fit enough to know the pathology is much different when a daughter is involved.  I'm going to be very thoughtful to not be defensive and use a fallback phrase like "I'm not going to talk about this with you, it's really personal".  If they don't get that in a minute or two, I'll just hang up.... Just like I had to do with my stepbrother the other day.

It really helps me to spell things out before I get phonecalls from other family members with hidden messages from my mom.  With some closer family I might have to flat out ask them to not do the hidden message thing, assuming they are not aware of the toxic nature of it.  All in all, I can't let my mother rob me of my sanity. 

I hate how I need to brace myself to deal with life.  Or maybe this is a skill I should be thankful for.

Swimmer 

[Butterfly]

Hi, Swimmer.  I really do symapthize.  You are not horrible!  You are courageous!!!  When I went NC (more than two years ago), my father called me and commanded me to call my mother because she thinks I don't lover her anymore.  (too true)  What a manipulative and dirty trick!  When I explained to my father about my mother's most recent bout of verbal abuse, he told me to "get over it, your mother's always been that way."  When I still did not contact my mother, my father called my husband to attempt to have him "talk some sense into me."  Yes, triangulation is a narcissist's trick--one that makes the N look innocent because other's are doing their dirty work. 

And, don't you hate it when third parties "suggest" that we do or say or act?  Another phrase that gets under my skin is "Don't you think you should . . .?"  Bleh. 

Hugs to you. 

Joy

[BonesMS]

((((((((((((((((Butterfly)))))))))

Thank God I am now left alone by the N's and their N-suppliers!  I think being NC is WONDERFUL when dealing with psychos like that!

I don't know if this will help or not, when dealing with individuals who call you up and attempt to guilt-trip you into doing with the NWomb-Donor wants....I visualize being forced to "brown-nose" the NWomb-Donor and ask myself do I really want to be forced to do anything that is disgusting as that?  HELL NO!  That has helped me alot so I'm hoping that it will help others who are new to this process and find themselves wavering and feeling horrible about themselves.

Just a thought.

Bones

[Ami]

Dear((( Swimmer)))

I was blessed with a wonderful experience. My Aunt, NM's sister, went on my side.She will barely talk to my parents. She said,"Ami, I can't fathom I have a sister like this but I believe you."
 You can imagine how wonderful those words were.
 In my family, the ONLY really bad one is my M.The other relatives are good.
 She is just the monster who came from somewhere.
 My little amount of sanity comes from extended family.
 My experience is probably rare but it was a beautiful one and I wanted to share it.  x o x o  Ami

[swimmer]

Yes, yes, yes, triangulation is the ultimate narcissistic strategy.  Right now for me, it's my NM's last ditch effort to get me to "feed" her again.  My NM must like challenges, she knows I'm not a game player.   My personality resists perseveration and she uses this to strike just like a snake.  I just walk away, without saying a word.  So triangulation has been an important narc. skill for her to survive her disease around me.  I'm just waiting for her to pick another feed, as long as people participate, she'll do this though.

I might just have a list of things she has said or done to me handy.... so when people call to triangulate I can strike her back!  Silence feeds narcissistic grand plan.  I'll throw it back on the "messanger", people should concern themselves with their own affairs anyways. 

Ohhhhh it is too familiar, "you should do this" and people chasing after me to feed NM again.  These messangers just want her off their back.  I'm beginning to think people who "sign up" to be a messanger are running from their own shadows.  The only silent I'm going to be is when I don't answer the phone, or hang up.

Swimmer

[Hopalong]

Swimmer,
I'm really impressed with your savvy thinking about boundaries and your willingness to calmly assert yourself.

Really, all you're saying to the messengers is, It's private, but the answer is No. Please don't bring me any more messages about my mother. Now how are the kids? What have YOU been up to?

All humans, not just Ns, like attention. And you have the right to change the subject (as quickly as you need to.)

I really like the sound of it, you sound as though you are willing to be calm but assertive.

great stuff!

Hops

[swimmer]

That is great to hear Ami, about the rest of your family being nice.  This gives me hope that just because there is a N, doesn't mean the whole family is crazy.  Most of my relatives are nice, but this will be a test.  My NM badmouthed ALL of them, so slowly I'm getting to know them and have developed relationships with most of them, a few are very toxic though.

Thx for sharing your kind words Hops.  I've HAD to take the high road, and everyone depends on me to do that.  I don't keep other peoples affairs in order, but definately my own.  My NM has really depended on me for this, she learns a little about what is appropriate so she can get along with normal people.  I've always had to keep it all together, or else she uses it against me.  So... when I need to read her the riot act, I have it all together and the words come out.... it all makes sense to her and she is usually speechless.  Since she is N it does no good.

Swimmer

[Sealynx]

The trouble comes when people think, I can handle this person.... Why can't she?

I like your answer about the issue being personal. Here is another I've used.

"My mother has a habit of involving people in situations that have a history and importance that they can't possibly understand. I care about you and prefer that you don't get involved in our relationship."

Change the subject...