Author Topic: Something with great meaning to N  (Read 2979 times)

debkor

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Something with great meaning to N
« on: February 16, 2010, 06:51:30 PM »
My friend is going to move in with her b/f.  Her children do not live with her and we have had many confrontations about many things and at times (no contact). 

She had a court date last week (I couldn't make it) and insisted that she get dressed in my house.  I do not know why.  Later on that night she came for her clothes but left her suit and dress coat (at my house).  This didn't make sense but ..sometimes they just don't.

She came back still didn't take them and told me she was going to leave her *infants* ashes with me at my house. 

Why wouldn't she take them with her?  I had them once when she had no place (hers) and then when she has housing she took them.  Now with this move (she's been with him for almost 3 years) she wants them with me.

The suit and coat she reminded me was the one she had at a funeral of her b/fs son.   There has to be something behind this and it's not a manipulation to come to my house. 

It's like she is leaving her pain with me for safe keeping.

I don't know.

Love Deb

teartracks

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 09:53:17 PM »



Hi Debkor,

It's like she is leaving her pain with me for safe keeping.

I think you're on to something.

It may be that she thinks that taking these items with her to another residence might 'contaminate' the new place with her old pain.  My heart aches for her.

tt


Sealynx

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 10:59:42 AM »
I agree with TT about contamination and that she is transferring these painful items to you. What I would ask is whether they cause you pain as well?

If someone gave me their infants ashes to hold I would probably put them in a case where I keep the ashes of my beloved pets who have crossed over and see them happily playing together somewhere on the other side. My spiritual beliefs do not see the body as very important and it would not pain me to keep them.  Besides, the infant is not her mother, they are separate and I would choose to honor this short life separately.

But would I want to keep them indefinitely ??? NO. While I can see that her new living situation might be sketchy and she is afraid to bring these treasured ashes to this new place, I feel that their long term management is part of her healing.

I would tell her gently that I would hold them until she gets settled, decides if this situation is right for her and finds a more permanent spot for them. I would show her where I would put them. Sometimes N's benefit from seeing a behavior modeled. They engage in a great deal of mimicry and seeing that the ashes could be honored in a place where they are not always visible might help her. She probably does not know what is appropriate.

The clothing is another matter. I would have to look at them every time I opened the closet and be reminded of her and her need to transfer painful things to me. I might further speculate on what she would bring over next! Next time I visited her I would just bring them over and say you forgot these. This would put the ball in her court. If she said she didn't want them I would suggest that she make a donation to Goodwill. Again, modeling an appropriate behavior.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 11:04:56 AM by Sealynx »

Hopalong

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 12:26:05 PM »
Hi Deb,

Thought I'd roll down an alley with some thoughts that wandered up for me when I read your post. I may be going completely down the wrong street! Please ignore me if I'm misunderstanding. But fwiw:

Do you feel kind of rolled over by your Nfriend's decisions about what she is choosing to store in your home?
I was wondering whether you participated in a dialogue about it and made a clear choice about it, out loud to her...

Did she ask if she might borrow some space? It sounded maybe as though she told you what she was doing with her child's ashes and clothing -- storing them in your home. I felt startled. Did you indicate she could, was it explicit? Or did you have no objection?

(I ask because I would not have wanted that emotionally loaded burden brought into my home, and I wouldn't have felt responsible for taking care of her in that way. Ashes can be reverently spread in a beautiful place, for example. And the clothes? I'd not want to store them, probably would rather donate them. )

If she said, "Because you have room and I need it," would that have been a good reason?

I was wondering if this friendship might be a laboratory for you to risk establishing new boundaries based on what you've learned about them, or if in fact you feel there's some boundary invasion going on... My antennae are bent half the time, though, so I might be reading it wrong. And the relationship might end if you assert yourself. How would you feel about that possibility?

I just noticed I was thinking about fusion, rather than friendship, when I read it.

I wonder if that's helpful to think about. (If not please do ignore!)

hugs
Hops
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debkor

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 12:55:44 AM »
Hey Hop,

I didn't feel rolled over.  We have a 15 year friendship.  There are things that we just know about each other and one of them is ofcourse she can place her childs ashes in my home.
 

debkor

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 03:24:19 AM »
Hops,

Sorry hit send by accident.

But a good thing

When I saw what I wrote I thought...Wait. 

We know each other for 15.   With boundaries made clear she did for the most part respect my boundaries (10) years.  Her marriage broke up in the 10th year she lost her house, car, business and that is when she placed her child's ashes with me.

I'm talking 10 years ago.

It's now 15

But I'm so tired and I will get back hops, tt, seal....

Love
Deb






Hopalong

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 01:23:34 PM »
Ahhh. I see.

It was some time ago.

Well I know she is lucky to have you continue to love her.

Sometimes [perhaps it's easier to love an N friend (I have a couple) than to be connected with an N relative or spouse.

I'm glad it's not a burden to you. I have several times in my life wondered if part of my purpose was to love Ns.
Because they are human, they suffer, they do bleed. It's been the biggest test of compassion for me...ever. If I "space it out", I can be present with them sometimes.

I had the most N of my friends (6' 7" powerful businessman) sit in my study and cry one time, telling me about the pit of depression he was in. He is a raging N (I thank the universe I resisted romantic involvement). But his suffering was real. He's also created a lot of suffering and havoc for people he's involved with, but I can keep myself outside that circle.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

debkor

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 01:56:29 AM »
Hops,

No I'm sorry.  It was 10 years ago but it is again.  5 years later. To place the ashes here.


In these five years we did not interact much and when we did it was confrontation over her children.  She has more problems now then ever. She is heavily pill addicted.  Imagine that added on and rages.

It is way different these last five years.  I don't or ever did feel resonsible for her.  She owns her own.  I would support and comfort her as friends would (with real suffering) and go for it's (cheer on) but the rest of the N bs no way.



So prehaps it is easier to love an N friend.  I didn't have to live with her. 




 

debkor

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2010, 03:55:47 AM »
And again I hit send.  I'm on my S's lap top.


TT,
 
Yes I think your right.  She is getting outright creepy though.
She is connected to death.
She wants a jacket that someone she knows was killed in.
She gave me a book to read about losing someone to death.
It had to do with the person above that was killed and personal message from people written to the mother.
She felt great pain and loss but she's not the mother...
And what the hell...

Sealynx,

Yes I see what you mean with her new living but I'm getting the feeling she wants to place them with me because she is prepared for being abandoned by b/f.

Everything above belonged to the b/f and his ex...It was their child.

I might further speculate on what she would bring over next!
Oh God. 

It does not cause me pain but ..but....

It's creepy.

Love
Deb








debkor

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 07:52:08 AM »
The ashes came here yesterday afternoon. 

I knew she would not feel comfortable or secure with b/f.  I figured that is why she would not take them.

And at 3:40 am I had hysterical (out of her mind) phone calls ..Screaming at b/f  Wrapping the car around a tree and being dead with his S.

And then said....Do you know why I wanted them with you...REALLY WHY?  Because I know you will keep them safe.

Are you planning on killing yourself?  Yes.

We talked and she is going to call someone today. 

I don't know what to do.  She needs to be in a hospital.

BonesMS

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 08:09:42 AM »
The ashes came here yesterday afternoon. 

I knew she would not feel comfortable or secure with b/f.  I figured that is why she would not take them.

And at 3:40 am I had hysterical (out of her mind) phone calls ..Screaming at b/f  Wrapping the car around a tree and being dead with his S.

And then said....Do you know why I wanted them with you...REALLY WHY?  Because I know you will keep them safe.

Are you planning on killing yourself?  Yes.

We talked and she is going to call someone today. 

I don't know what to do.  She needs to be in a hospital.

I'm seeing RED FLAGS all over the place given that she is planning on killing herself!

I'm going to have to ask some difficult questions based on my experiences with crisis intervention....

Does she have a specific suicide plan e.g. overdosing, hanging self, gun, gas oven, car exhaust, etc.?  Are these methods readily and easily accessible to her now?  If the answers are "Yes", then she needs INTERVENTION NOW!!!!

Is there a Suicide Hotline in your area?  If the answer is "Yes", PLEASE CALL THEM, N-O-W, AND TELL THEM WHAT YOU KNOW!  There may be Outreach Crisis Intervention Specialists/Crisis Response who could go to her or the police could respond.

Please don't wait!

Bones
Back Off Bug-A-Loo!

debkor

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 10:23:17 PM »
Hi Bones,

Sorry I didn’t get back sooner. 

I had calmed her down.  Called her mother and crisis was called.  Her mother was going to pick her up and crisis thought best to meet at my house.  We were here waiting for the team.

They called and told me they couldn’t make it.  Something else had come up and they were very sorry.  Could I keep her with me for the night and they would come the next morning.  I told them no.  I would drive her to a hospital.  I can’t subject my family to her behavior which was off the wall.   The phone call I listened to (shocked even me) she was that whacked.  She refused the hospital.  The bf picked her up and took her back home.

While she was here she was not here.  I have honestly never heard her talk as she had talked (she had some kind of break).  She is in and out. 

The weather is not permitting here now so Monday the team will come out. 



That is where it stands.

Love
Deb

BonesMS

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 08:05:58 AM »
Hi Bones,

Sorry I didn’t get back sooner. 

I had calmed her down.  Called her mother and crisis was called.  Her mother was going to pick her up and crisis thought best to meet at my house.  We were here waiting for the team.

They called and told me they couldn’t make it.  Something else had come up and they were very sorry.  Could I keep her with me for the night and they would come the next morning.  I told them no.  I would drive her to a hospital.  I can’t subject my family to her behavior which was off the wall.   The phone call I listened to (shocked even me) she was that whacked.  She refused the hospital.  The bf picked her up and took her back home.

While she was here she was not here.  I have honestly never heard her talk as she had talked (she had some kind of break).  She is in and out. 

The weather is not permitting here now so Monday the team will come out. 



That is where it stands.

Love
Deb



(((((((((((((((((((((((((Deb)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:  :shock: :shock: :shock:

These PROFESSIONALS wanted you to do WHAT?!?!?!?!?  And subject your family to this as well?!?!?!?!?!?
If the PROFESSIONALS couldn't make it then they should have sent the police to transport her to the hospital!!!  (That's just my personal reaction!)  My whole gut reaction was "What WERE these PROFESSIONALS THINKING?!?!?!?"

I hope your friend is able to get the help she needs and SOON!

Bones
Back Off Bug-A-Loo!

lighter

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2010, 10:26:21 AM »
Oh dear, Deb:

Sounds like you're handling the situation.

So sorry this is happening right now.

How's everything else?

Has your ex left your children alone?

Mo2

debkor

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Re: Something with great meaning to N
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2010, 02:00:50 AM »
Hey Mof2,

As far as friend she is up and down.  For the first time in years I had heard her talk as she use to.  The regular, clean, cook, la, la, la...even some laughter of old events years ago.

Then the next day very very down.  Very depressed.  I don't see or hear any aggression.  She is very filled with fear right now.  Her moods go on an hourly basis.  It is so very sad. 

There is a crisis mobile unit coming out on Monday (I hope).  She said she set it up.  The last time I spoke to them (Friday) they told me they do not come out on pm hours.  She told me they set up pm hours.

I certainly hope so but dealing with the crisis unit (they confuse the hell out of you).  They say one thing and do another.  I have never heard a crisis unit say (some thing more important came up and they can't make it sorry) but then again I have never had to deal with one before.

There was a rough few days.  My S took out another car (he was uninjured) Thank God.  The next day my friend and crisis that night (an ice storm)  my D stuck at work outside (it closed) alone.  We were trying to get out of my community and couldn't get up the hill.  Finally my H got out then was stuck in traffic over an hour.  Nothing was moving.  My D was walking to get to a public place and wait while she it telling me someone in a car is following her. A woman (in a house saw her walking) came  out and yelled at the car following her to turn around and go back where he was coming from.    My H made it to her.  She was safe.  Mobile unit coming. No one injured...So all is good and I'm thank full.

My ex never tried to contact my son again. He is respecting his wishes.  My S knows where he is  and how to contact him if he chooses to do but until date he has no desire. 


All I know is it's 3 weeks to Spring and I can't wait.

Love

Deb