The cumulative effect of N abuse

[nolongeraslave]

I completely agree that rich communities can be more concerned about their reputation than the ones who are suffering (at least in my experience).  Admitting that bullying happens taints their prestigious reputation.

Like narcissists, some of these communities punish you for being yourself or being different. I got the impression that it was "allowed" to bully people that didn't want to be like everyone else, or that people being themselves deserved to bullied.

I recently wrote a letter to my middleschool principal about what I went through(bullying, sexual abuse, and narcissism), and how its horrific that he and the faculty ignored everything and blamed me for it.  I'm assuming it had an effect on him, because the school NOW takes bullying and students' emotional health seriously.

[Hopalong]

I did the same once, NLAS...to a school where I had been bullied and my D went through the same thing.
Being still upset by it, I wrote the letter anonymously.

In the next school Bulletin, they included a little sidebar about forgiveness.

Felt pretty inadequate to me...

Hops

[SilverLining]

I recently read a comment on a site about N mothers that talked about N abuse being cumulative. It basically stated that Ns often dish out their abuse as minor events that seem like "parent/child issues," especially to the outside world . . . the type of things, that on their own, no one would consider abusive. We often don't realize until our teens that we are being abused, because it takes years for these small events to build to a head.

You've made a lot of good observations Kathy.   I believe the "minor events" can add up to damage just as significant as the more obvious forms of abuse.  This was how things worked in my family.  There was not a lot of overt obvious abuse, just hundreds of small insults, dismissals, and other  mistreatments of the offspring.  Neither of my parents  had the emotional sensitivity to see these incidents as abuse.   As long as they paid for food, clothing, and shelter, they assumed they had the job of parenting covered.  It took me into my 40's to really understand the underlying pattern.  Children do not grow up healthy with only material support.  

 I've seen some research that suggests 80% of interactions in a relationship have to be positive or the relationship is in danger of failing.  In my FOO, particularly with my father, I'd say 60-80% of interactions are at least mildly negative.   I had a hard time figuring out why  I could hardly stand to be around him, until I started to see the cumulative effect of covert abuse.   Since children aren't able to just leave the relationship with the parents, I suspect they just get numbed to the small abuses.  It may not feel good, but it feels normal, and it's associated with at least some level of material security. 

[JustKathy]

But what I get from this thread is that bullying is just one aspect of this cumulative effect.

Yeah, for me it was one of many things that NM did to me, and at the time, I didn't see it as an intentional thing. But in hindsight, it probably was. In most cases, the bullying was a secondary consequence of another act of abuse, like sabotaging my dates . . . tell me that I could out with someone, then claim that she never gave me permission when the boy came to pick me up. With that, she was trying to gaslight me. So there the was humiliation of being embarrassed in front of my date, and the gaslighting, with the bullying being the final link in the chain that would come after word got back to the kids at school.

I agree with nolongeraslave, that NMs secretly want their kids to be bullied. NMs must go crazy when their kids are at school, where they can't be controlled. They're hanging with friends, having fun, being independent. If school is a pleasant experience, then we have an escape from their abuse. But if they can encourage bullying, we lose that escape.

[Meh]

This may be a little "off topic" in a sense, yet today while I was taking a shower (things tend to dawn on me in the shower)....well I remembered how my parents both my mother and my father would speak for me always interjecting their own thoughts and their control if someone ever tried to talk to me directly my parents would answer for me. I wasn't allowed to even experience my own thoughts.

I know that parents do this sometimes for young children sort of, if the kid is being really shy or something. But my parents did this all the time, to the point where I think as an adult I still have a habit of being sort of quiet because of it.  

It was a way that I was literally voiceless. But also I didn't get the chance to practice all the interactions. By doing that my parents were being controlling.

My parents also always had excuses for not involving me in "extra curricular activities".
Growing up I never thought this was intentional, I really believed their excuses, but looking back it was either intentional or "subconscious/unconscious" somehow, but it was an expression of their own (my parents) psychological issues.

I see even more how my parents did not allow me to be my own person.

I have even seen some of this as an adult. My mother (when I was in contact with her) had a next-door-neighbor in their neighborhood who really liked me, shared interests with me and the neighbor wanted to invite me over to visit with her.
The thing is my mother interceded in this process and neglected to tell me things about the invitation to go over and visit the neighbor. It's a minor thing really that I never visited the neighbor but at the same time it is an example of my mother's behavior even as an adult of how she would discourage me from having positive relationships with other people.

The times when I did develop a positive relationship with someone my mother would be jealous on some level I think (not obviously) but passively and covertly jealous.

I'm not a psychiatrist so I really don't understand this but I believe that my mother wanted me/wants me to experience a loneliness that she once experienced herself. The thing is my mother is in a nice cushy place in life right now. She would still wish for me to be lonely.
It is really weird.

[Meh]

I wonder if this is a conscious effort on the part of the N parent, to make the abuse appear benign, and spread it out over several years. It makes them look like normal, even good parents, while our souls are slowly being destroyed.

Yeah, they do try to present themselves as being normal/good parents don't they?

Abuse I think in it's essential nature is somehow 1) secretive and 2) inaccurate.

It really takes a knowledgeable person to see though their explanations for their behavior, to see the underlying issues.
And always they have an insincere excuse and explanation. That is the other thing about my NM her excuses although sound justifiable are always so insincere and not thoughtful. I have never experienced my mother communicate to me thoughtfully, as if she actually attempted to consider me.
And that is the result of the fact that she never has thoughtfully considered me. But I have moved on past her and just have me to deal with now.

[Logy]

Helen,

I understand what you are saying about the voicelessness, Nparents speaking for you.  Whenever an adult talked directly to me, even as my mouth was open and the first words spoken, NM took over - "Oh, she thinks this and this and this."  Burned in my memory is the look of pity I received from the other adult.  How I wish someone would have said "Sorry, NM, I addressed my comment to Logy."

I have always had difficulties with relationships.  Love and friend relationships.  I didn't understand why for a long time.  But with my understanding now of Narcissism, I realize that any good relationship I had, NM continually bombarded me with comments about how that person didn't treat me right.  It didn't matter if it was my best friend from high school, my dad, my husband, my daughter, my coworker.  I see now it was just an attempt by her to make HER the only person in the world who was interested in me and to isolate me so she would have ultimate control.  So ultimately I pushed those people away.  The ONE relationship that made me question NM's opinion and led me to try to figure out what was wrong was the relationship with my daughter.  I loved her with all my being and did everything I could to be a good mother.  And when NM isn't in the picture, we have a great nurturing relationship.  When she was a child I loved her unconditionally, supported her, guided her, disciplined her and she learned to express herself, develop self-control, and occasionally say I was her best friend.  When she was a child NM did her best to convince her that I was selfish, I didn't have her best interests in mind, NM was the only one who REALLY cared about her.

My daughter and I had some difficult times due to this manipulation.  But I wasn't going to lose THIS relationship!  Now my daughter sees through the manipulation, the bullying.  And NM doesn't control our relationship any more.  We have our own relationship, good times, bad times, but it is ours!!!

[nolongeraslave]

Logy, you just described my life story. I'm glad your daughter and you have a good relationship and didn't let NM win!

While my N-mom will NEVER admit this, I do think she sabotaged all of my friendships and relationships. She wanted me to be HERS only.  She would nag me for not having enough friends, BUT break all of my relationships up the next day. A strange woman.

She's pressuring me to get married and acting like it's the end of the world that I'm still single (this may look normal to the outsider), but the fact is this is just a ploy to control me, keep me on the edge, and cause self-doubt.  She's been giving me toxic advice to ask men on first dates how much money they make, talk about marriage and tell them to talk to my mom right away. No thanks.

[Logy]

Nolongeraslave,

Good for you!!!!!!!  You recognize the abuse.  I also was nagged because I was not social enough.  When I tried to be social I was criticized.  I didn't say the right thing, I chose the wrong person.  I embarrassed the family by my reaction socially.  My social skills were constantly berated.  Funny, though, I realize now that NM has absolutely NO social skills.  She projected her weakness onto me.  And I lived it for decades.

NM would explain to people that I was single because I was too picky. 

[Meh]

We have our own relationship, good times, bad times, but it is ours!!!

This makes a lot of sense to me Logy, this feeling you are expressing of having that unique important relationship between you and your daughter and that it belongs to the two of you.

Rather then the relationship between you and your daughter belonging to your narcissistic mother.