Depression's Upside--NY Times article

[Hopalong]

I dunnoooooo

Just ain't convinced. I think I could think sustained deep problem-solving thoughts a lot better without depression's help.

Is there supposed to be an upside to anxiety too?

Ugh.

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Just wondering....

if the characteristics of depression of those of us who were stuck in abusive FOOs...
and those who encountered Ns, Ps, and enmeshment, abuse, etc later in life...  are different.

wondering...
if perhaps those responsible for this type of emotional abuse are either already suffering from another form of depression - or if they experience that as a consequence of denying their actions.

just wondering if there doesn't need to be clear categories (or even if that's possible) for different types of "affect" in depression with different causes.

[Portia]

Amber - sounds reasonable to me. Your last sentence: you mean perhaps there does need to be clear categories for different types of affect... perhaps depression due to underlying:

denial
fear (?)
repression
suppression
dissociation
etc?

I guess that's what the helping people try to find out and address, if the person wants help. I don't know either. I do see people who I would consider 'depressed' because they always treat life as a struggle, when they could see the good in their lives. Or they cannot tolerate the idea of 'fun'. I'd call that depressed but they wouldn't! And i see a lot of false self denial that wouldn't be thought of as depression.

[sKePTiKal]

Along those lines, Portia. Just like people will naturally get depressed when going through a divorce, losing a job, etc... and there are criteria - commonalities - a range of intensity perhaps, even - that describe "normal" depression.

Just so, I'd think that the symptoms, criteria, common threads/ailments, and ranges of intensity for those who have experienced this type of emotional abuse would start to emerge into pattern(s), for the professionals. Maybe it already has! I have to admit, that I'm way too close to my own subjective experience to be able to "get my head around it".

[Portia]

Me too, too close to my own experience that is. And to be honest, although the general area of mental health has some interest for me, I'm not interested enough in the things that haven't affected me (or people I know) to go foraging. And the area is just too big. Mind you, I have read some 'scholarly' things that have made me gulp; where the so-called professionals or academics have said things that are, well, not scientific, heavily prejudiced. That saddens me. And makes me wary.

I'm sure there are recognisable patterns/symptoms for survivors of emotional abuse (surely I've read about them, in addition to having them shown to me). I didn't realise I'd been 'depressed' for most of my life; despite the evidence. How would I know?

As for those responsible for abuse, bring on the meds I guess. Narcissism isn't curable, i don't think, but it's not worth diagnosing either, there's no point. I wanted to mention this next point the other day too: the more certain people (celebs) 'come out' as being bipolar, the more I think, this is a deliberate mis-diagnosis. And it's not fair on true bipolar sufferers - not that I know anything about the condition, so I'm shooting the breeze here, pub talk. But I do wonder if, amongst certain people, bipolar is becoming the acceptable term for rampant Nism + denial. Just musing here.

[teartracks]

Hi Portia,

I didn't realise I'd been 'depressed' for most of my life; despite the evidence. How would I know?

I used to say that I came out of the womb grieving.  I can't remember a single moment in my childhood when I didn't feel a deep sense of bereavement.   During the 7 years of hell, I didn't feel like I was depressed.  I felt a number of emotions during that time.  I was very conscious of each and every emotion and what experiencing it felt like.  That, for me,  didn't translate to depression then or now as I look back on it.   There were periods when I felt weighted down by one or the other of them but not necessarily by the sum of them, if that makes any sense... 

[Portia]

Thanks TT, all of what you said makes perfect sense to me. I'd been depressed up until I crashed, probably starting in 2000 and reaching a head early 2003. Since then, depression couldn't be further from what I've felt, where I've been. If I think of a picture of my depressed years, it would be sitting alone in one of my flats (temporary caves), watching films on tv, drinking too much coffee and feeling some sort of safety in the numbness. Totally numb, with bursts of emotional meltdowns, which I had zero understanding of. I can feel those times and they were horrible. The aloneness of them amazes me now. And noone cared! Thank goodness I didn't realise that then, perhaps. Or maybe not: perhaps I would have simply crashed earlier. Perhaps a lot harder, too. But I was only thinking back last night, how noone cared. Incredible, truly disgraceful. Bah.

[teartracks]

Hi Portia,

Sounds like you and I were duking it out with FOO dystunction at about the same time.   Yeah,  I had no understanding about what was happening and the people around me had none either.   Makes me wonder about the people I meet day to day - are they going through their own hell? - and am I oblivious to their suffering?   Am I reaching out when I should?  Would it help if I did? 

Here's a hug Portia - we made it!!!!

tt
 

[Portia]

Hi TT

Yes, I wonder about the people I meet day to day.  Many will be going through their own hell.  I may not be oblivious to their suffering but as for reaching out - mostly that's probably not a good idea, for many reasons. Have I made it? Yeah, I survived this far, so far, and I know even less than I used to!