My boyfriend is a flirt

[Hopalong]

You're a STRONG woman and it sounds like you have a good boundary in place now.

You're going to be able to deal with however this turns out, yes you are.

Wow, what a change. You're not panicking.

Good for you!

hugs,
Hops

[Ami]

Dear Lupita
   I hope you can get on a child to child level and share your wounds. That is the only way to get to the next step. It is easy to keep throwing people away BUT it is hard to each be vulnerable .
 There ARE times to throw a relationship away. I am not saying there are not.
 However, if you can get through these deep wounds that you BOTH have---together--you will be building something beautiful.
                                                                      Ami

[CB123]

Lupita,

It sounds like he still cares for you very much...I am with Ami--sometimes you need to walk away from a relationship and sometimes you need to hang in there and weather the storm together.  I think the biggest damage that children of N's have is not knowing which is which: pain seems to equal no hope and outright abuse seems to equal love.  Time is everything, to me...time, time, time.  And awareness.

I am sad that he allows her to damage me.

Lupe I think that this is the kind of self-talk that you need to examine closely.  One, she is not damaging you.  The damage that was done to you was done long ago by your mom.  This woman is simply a "stand in" for her in your mind.  She is not close enough to you to truly damage you.  And you are much to strong to be damaged by someone with as little consequence.  She is like a fly buzzing around your face--annoying, but of no real consequence.  Same thing with the other women in the group.  One year from now you will barely remember them, if you keep their role in all of this in its proper place.

Second, your boyfriend is not allowing anything.  You have all the power in this situation.  He is not your knight in shining armor--he's not even interviewing for the position!  He is a man who loves you and wants to enjoy dancing with you.  The dynamics of the group are getting in the way of that, and he may not even know how to maneuver them.  Many many men (and women) just let the next thing happen, and they dont know that they can say "no".  If there is a class created specifically for close body contact, then your reservations have already been foreseen and affirmed. 

I guess what I am saying is that you dont have to feel victimized by this situation.  You have a man who loves you, who wants to be with you.  You love to dance with him and he loves to dance with you.  You are in a group dynamic that you two need to learn to navigate together.  That's what you will be doing for the rest of your lives together.  Later, you will do it with much less thought because you will know each other so well.  But right now you are just learning how to do that. 

Think of Monday as an opportunity for you two to learn how to be a couple.  Its not a test with a grade.  Just watch.  Talk to yourself as the evening goes on:  what am I feeling when this or that happens?  What would make me feel less out of control right here?  A clue that I have found:  when I feel as though my sweetheart is pulling away (and it is natural and normal that you both do that), I give him lots of room to do that.  The immediate instinct is panic and hanging on.  But if he needs space and I give it to him, he is getting what he needs and doesnt have to fight for it.  And vice versa. 

Much love and hope to you, Lupita
CB

[Lupita]

Thank you CB. Again, you amaze me.

The dance on Saturday was uneventful. The usual lady who fricvks me out came to our table and was moving her hips toward him, he moved away and did not pay attention to her and did not dance with her despite her insistence. After that, she did not bother us the rest of the night.

I wrote him an e mail telling me that hemade me feel the most important woman of the world.

Today we have the horrible class of the hell. For some reason he still wants to take two more classes from her. He wrote me an e-mail saying the he would behave exactly like he behaved on Saturday.

Hope that everything will be fine. I will help too. I will do my part by not looking at him when he is dancing and not to be looking for the little things by watching him all the time. So, I will make him feel comfortable, hopefully.

I will tell you how it was. Now, I believe that he loves me. He just does not know what to do and me niether.  I will tell you tomorrow how it was tonight. Love you all dear friends.

[CB123]

I am so glad you had a good talk, Lupita.  I kinda hoped it would work out for you, because you describe him as being someone that is a good fit for you.  Better than the last guy.  As a matter of fact, I think the last guy was doomed because he didnt have more spine to him.  This guy's appeal may be (at least a little bit) that he pushes back with you.  Pushing back is okay, if you guys can work things out over the long haul. 

I'll bet tango turns out not to be the dance for you!    I hope you two find a different dance that you can enjoy.  Salsa?  Me, I never liked tango that much anyway, so I dont think it would be much of a loss.  Salsa is lots more fun and casual, too.  I just feel like laughing when I do salsa, but I never do with tango.  So, there you have my opinion! 

Anyway,  I really want to hear how Monday went.  I am kinda thinking you should hunker down and endure the next two weeks and just move on from there.  If his flirting is a real problem, it will show up again later--but maybe its just the dumb tango.

Love you, Lupita,
CB

[lighter]

What happened to Salsa classes Lupe?  You used to enjoy them so much.

((((CB)))) It's so nice to see you back at the board: )

Mo2

[Lupita]

Last week on Monday he behaved wonderfully. this last weekend we had a Milonga, dance, like a ball, and he behaved wonderfully. Today, we were supposed to take our last class with the teacher of hell, and he called me and told me we were not going. He said that his daughter was coming to visit and he needed to spend time with her. I said, OK. I will call him tomorrow to ask him how was his visit with his daughter.

During the milonga on Saturday, a guy that I dislike, came and asked him in fornt of me if he could come to his house, because he was organizing a milonga in his house to dance with his female friends because  he has mane and he needed to recruit men to dance with his women friends. I think that was very mean of that man. I asked M if he would go and he said "I would rush to it" I said that is not what I want to hear, and he said " I like to joke" But he never answered me.

We see each other every single night and for the first time in several months, we are not going to see each other, he says he has to see his daughter. I sincerely hope he is telling me te truth.

I do not think that he is going to miss a dance class because or an informal dancing in a private house, and not on a Monday. I hope.i need to trust him.


I

[Lupita]

He has demonstrated me that he loves me and that he cares for me. My car did not work yesterday and he stayed with me all day, took me to church, came back and picked me up, followed me to the dealer to take my car, came back home with me, took me to the supermarket, stayed in my house with me, and left in the late afternoon.

He wants to see me everyday. I spend four to five nights at his house during the week.
So, I have no reason to think that he is going to jeopardized our relationship to so something stupid that finally I will know.

Anyway, I always doubt, no matter what he does, it is in my mind, to doubt everything, to believe that I am not lovable and that nobody loves me, I was taught that way.

[Lupita]

He just called me to tell me that his ex-wife is coming too to see the daughter at his house. Why does she have to come to his house? Why does he let her come to his house? My ex husband would never let me go to his house, not that I want to go, but, he does not talk to me and I do not talk to him. But these two talk all the time.

Why do I have to suffer for something that does matter, who cares, he has to be with his daughter and the mother wants to be there too, probably the daughter is in some kind of trouble and he does not want to tell me because hw know that I have a son in PHD with several publications, and he is ashamed that his children have DUIs, all of them and herpes, and do not have nice jobs, this daughter did not even graduate from college, etc.

I need to trust him, I need to trust. I cannot trust. How can I trust when I could not trust my own mother.

Last time I went to our country she asked me if I learned to play Laura. I had that book and she took it, I am sure she took it because the book disappeared the last time she visited me. How can she ask me? What a coincidence!

Anyway, it is very difficult to trust M. I doubt everything he tells me. Why would he be lying about his daughter and ex-wife visiting? She lives with a friend of both of them. That is why he divorced her. So, he cannot possibly go back to her.

I have no reason to feel bad. If I do not have a reason, I find it. It is the bad man who invited him to go to a milonga at his house or the ex coming to see the daughter at his house.

Please, help me. Why am I always in crisis? I want to be at peace.

[nolongeraslave]

Hi Lupita,

I once had a therapist say something VERY interesting. I don't know whether it's a truism or not but it gave me a lot to think about anyway:

You are drawn to relationships to people of the opposite gender with whom you will re-enact, and re-enact, your conflict with your parent of your gender. Until you are finished doing that.

I figured out I'd had a lot of boyfriends who were all about my mother.

AAAGGGH. But it was really helpful.

I need to have this tattooed on my arm.
how do you know when you're "done"?l

[Hopalong]

You just wring that rag until not another drop of anger or pain comes out of it.
Wring it hard. Put some vigor into it until you're spent.

Catch your breath.

Then you find you're bored. And just a little way past bored, is "done".

So you take the rag up again and start making art.

Dip it in paint. Go nuts with beauty.

Fill the canvas. Hang it crooked. Paint another one.

Teach a kid to paint.

Play loud music you love and paint barefoot until you're exhausted!

Hops

[seastorm]

Lupita,

It sounds like you don't trust him and with good reason. His body language is pretty clear. He is available and yet not available. Very mixed message.  You are one exuberant, loving, passionate woman who does not need someone who isnt able to commit to you. It is so easy to fall into the trap of accepting less than you deserve when you are lonely.

Worrying about him when you are not there is a pretty good indication that you do not trust him.  This is just my opiniion.
Maybe the question is " Why are you putting up with his bullshit?"  I used to absolutely hate it when people would say this to me about my ex. I did not want to hear it. Now my rule is if someone lies to me twice, I jetison them out of my life.  Even if it hurts. It means they lie and people who lie are very twisted and unreliable.  If he does this sort of thing when you are with him, chances are he is twice as bad when you aren't there. 

I tell you this in love. Not to break your heart but to whisper to you to run away as fast as you can.

Thinking of you. Glad you are sharing this with us.

Sea storm

[lighter]

Remember the trick, Lupita?  Of pulling away and looking down at your situation?  From a distance?

Get some emtional distance for yourself.

Breath from your stomach.... put one hand on your chest.  The other hand, put thumb in belly button and fingers below.  Concentrate on breathing so hand on belly moves up and down.

Remember that you're educated, fun, loving Lupita...... with this relationship, and without.

You'll be OK, with or without this man.

Seems to me you're struggling with old pain, and perhaps learning to listen to your instincts, and that's gotta be confusing.

It's difficult to gauge these things.

Following your instincts may be exactly the right thing to do, but you don't want to X out a good relationship bc your mother was abusive.

My advice is to look at the history of this man.

What was he doing when he met you?

That his ex wife and children are close to him may be a very good thing.  He may be a very good guy.

On the other hand, and there's always another hand...... your instincts NOT to trust him may be right.

What was he doing when he met you?

Believe what a man does, not what he tells you.

How long has he been divorced?  How many relationships has he had?  What did he say about them and how they ended?  Does he keep in touch with those women?  Does he blame everything on his wife ?  Does he take responsibility for anything in his life?  Is everything everyone elses fault? 

\Now, I want to say....... I'm so happy to see you enjoying yourself.  You deserve to dance with a worthy partner, Lupita.

[CB123]

Lupita,

Its wonderful that you had such a good day with your boyfriend yesterday.  Enjoy that!  Every minute of it!

I am going to give you a little bit different perspective, but the caveat is that each relationship is made up of the two people that are in it and what is right for them may not be right for anyone else in the whole world.  If you are constantly uncomfortable with his behavior, it may not be worth it to keep working at this.  Relationships can have hard patches, but if they are a constant drain on your emotions and creativity, they just arent worth it, IMO.

Having said that--his behavior COULD fall within the range of functional.  Only you can say if that is good enough for you.  But let me tell you how I look at it:You and I are in our 50's.  We are not going to "train" any man who is in our age range.  (and I am good with that--training men is greatly overrated).  We can no longer fool ourselves that we can "change him".  The man we love is who he is.  I see my job to be to simply find out who he is, and then decide if this is someone I can be with. 

For example, you watch to see how he acts when other women wiggle their hips at them.  How does he act when you need a ride somewhere or help with something around the house.  How does he act when you are sick, upset?  How does he act with his children?  With his ex wife?  What does his apartment look like?  His car?  How is he with sharing?  Does he have any friends? 

Me, personally?  I do that watching with as little comment as possible.  That's for a couple of reasons:  one, I dont want him to edit his behavior to make a good impression.  It takes a long time to get past the point in a relationship when you are both letting the masks down.  Its normal to do that--we are all self-protective.  Gradually, we trust the other person enough to let them see the whole us. 

If we immediately get critiqued, we put the mask back up again and try to be someone that our lover loves.  So, I try not to critique unless its a deal-breaker thing.  I want to see the real him as soon as possible.  If he treats his kids badly, I want to see that.  If he maxes out his credit card, I dont want him to hide that from me.  If he is going to have his ex wife over for the weekend, I want him to call me and tell me.  See what I am saying?  Then I can decide if this is someone I can have a trusting relationship with. 

Back to your situation:  to me, the fact that he called you to tell you that hhis ex wife is coming is a a good thing.....CB

[CB123]

(I started a new post because my Internet Explorer is goofy and the screen jumps)
If he tried to hide the fact that she is coming over, that would be a red flag.  If you get very upset about her coming, and he starts hiding that, then you will never know if he is hiding because he has something going on with her, or if he is simply trying to spare himself the scene that will ensue if he tells you.  In other words, you wont know who he is. 

The one thing you CAN know: he will not tell her to stay home because it would upset you.  Women make those sorts of decisions, but men dont.  You just have to accept that. 

If it were me, I would use this opportunity to ask him (in a non-threatening way) about his relationship with his ex.  What is she like?  What attracted him to her?  What broke them up?  What kind of mother is she?  How do they parent together since the divorce?  etc.  If you asked my ex those questions, he would be very negative.  If you asked my sweetheart those questions, he would be very positive.  He would take blame for his part in the break up.  He would say that he is committed to his kids and that she is their mother.  He would say that shutting her out of his life, would be shutting them out of his life.  And I would look at how well adjusted his kids are, and I would know what kind of man he is.  So, something to think about. 

This is very hard, I wont deny that.  But, I just wanted to let you know that there is another way of looking at it. There is also a lot you will have to do with your feelings and that's hard, too.  But for me,  it was worth it.   

Much love, CB