starting a club to help victims of Ns get even in a big way

[Sealynx]

I'd be happy if they just locked up "Balloon Boys" father before he does more damage to his poor kids. Last I heard he was still running around free and the little boy was still throwing up when people asked him too many questions. I think one of the problems with punishing N's is that far too many celebrities are flaming N's and people are more likely to worship them than put them away. Sad but true!

[seastorm]

It getting a bit silly for sure. I think laughing and scorning the fear that Ns generate is pretty healthy.

Detecting Ns is not silly though. Very important.

Sea Storm

[Lucky]

I was thinking in terms of some lie detector because with their lying and manipulating they can make the victim look bad and themselves look good/the victim. That is very confusing for the victim and the bystanders. If there just would be a way to detect which one of the two or more people is in fact the NARC then the right person could be punished. At the moment it is often the victim that is being punished for being wrong and seeing things wrong. When the victim is pushed to the limit and looses it, bystanders consider that person the crazy one. Wouldn't it be great if theri would be a decisive way to make 100% clear who is the predator, the persecutor, the aggressor? So that we know we can believe the victim's story and give the N the punishment he/she deserves.

[Lucky]

Like I remember from the time I was a member of the Never Good Enough forum. A number of times somebody would become a member or already be a member for a while and this person started to criticize or even verbally attack others on the forum. It was very, very hard to know if this person was terribly traumatized/burned out/depressed and needed a lot of understanding and support or if this person was just being a bully and actually an N. Every time such a thing happened it caused a lot of turmoil and different opinions and interpretations on how to proceed with such a person and wheather or not the person was an N.

[swimmer]

I think our intuition is the key on detecting N's.  I've made an early judgement on people and I'm usually right.  We can go through the motions of giving people the benefit of the doubt just to be sure.  I don't know about you guys, but I can sniff an N a mile away.  I usually keep clear of N's in my personal life.... I let my friendships develop over time.  An N can't fake normal for long.  Anyways...... I think it's all about listening to our red flags.

& there is a store called the Spy Shop.... If you are ever in San Francisco it's located in Fishermans Warf.  There are all sorts of harmless, but uncomfortable tricks you can play on people out there!!  I stumbled upon this place and I just got lost in the different possiblities......I'm not a cruel person, so I'm a little embarassed..... But it's therapeutic;)

[sKePTiKal]

Well - I think Mud's got the right idea.
The specific gap in help, support & resources is of a legal nature.

And knowing WHEN one needs to try to do what, to protect oneself. No one wants to feel like they're "crying wolf" to authorities and because of the he said/she said nature of most of the legal disagreements (and risk of having one's story discounted & minimized) and the subjective nature of what constitutes danger to any specific judge and the terror of not being believed...

... I think a lot of people wait too long to start documenting things, building evidence, reporting problems - taking action. Just like there are now tables of "symptoms" for teachers to recognize the signs of child neglect & abuse... maybe it would help some people recognize earlier, that they are in a situation where they need help and to start taking appropriate actions to protect themselves, legally too.

I'm seeing "building a file of evidence" as being an often overlooked tool to help people later - even in the area of being believed. I wish I knew what kind of evidence.

Mud?
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edit in PS: wasn't it Cat's Paw who was fighting an N in court - and studying to be a lawyer, too?

[Hopalong]

On M02's thread, Gavin de Becker...

when he was on the show, he talked about something (The Gift of Fear is the book about it) that would help so many victiNs (victims of Ns) people probably more than the after-the-damage things you mention here. Not that after-the-fact isn't a good thing, but in so many cases, justice delayed is justice denied.

I'll start another on that. And this is interesting too.

Thanks, Seastorm. Got me thinking again.

love,
Hops

[mudpuppy]

How come all people applying for top public jobs - politicians, police chiefs, hospital Chief Execs etc etc - aren't subjected to psych evals?

Who evaluates the evaluators?

mud

[seastorm]

Narcissists running things is certainly like ducks taking to water. In this case however, it is dicks taking to water. Ha ha ha.

Of course Ns like to run things and the values in out culture support this. This may be the popular way to do things and the quick way to do things but it is reaping disastrous consequences. These people are dangerous.  Look at the financial empire and how many people are "collateral damage". The same thing happens in schools, hospitals, mental health clinics ... It is everywhere. And it is not good.

There are ways to get things done and to work in groups where mountains can be moved and the workers are not led by Ns or psychopaths. It is like an epidemic of crassness in our society.  I think of the warmth and enthusiasm of people starting off their careers only to realize that they wont even be able to do their job unless they conform to some crazy system invented by an N to make themselves look good.

As for who chooses these creeps. People who are just like them. Systems seem to live for perpetuating themselves.

I dont want to be the thought police or some creature out of Farenheit 51 where people get the sniff test to see if they are measuring up but I guess in the wrong hands smelling pheromones could be dangerous.  It is all context. I come from a place where it seems like a good idea. At least some more research into what makes an N woud be good. Then a few articles on identifying them by some way.  On the other hand maybe we already have the ability but dont use it.

That guy who was on Oprah has 48 questions on his website for looking at whether one is in a relationship that could become dangerous.  They are extremely interesting questions and brutally frank.

As for listening devices etc. I think they are a good idea. Wish I had been a lot more inquisitive and followed through with my intuition that things were not adding up.

There could be checklists for stuff like that. Like how safe are you with your partner financially?  Does he insist on controlling the bank account. Do you wonder where the money is going? Things like that.

Also there could be a checklist for inappropriate behaviour with children or other women.
Of course, there needs to be one for men too.

Sea storm

Sea storm

[seastorm]

There is just no poetic justice with Ns. Probably there will be no justice. Better to escape with the shirt on your back and get the hell out of there.

The best to be hoped for is to find someone to understand and care about what happened.  This is really hard to do.