Llike N Mother, Like N Daughter, Like Co-D Father

[sunblue]

I would have thought by now, after a lifetime of struggle dealing with an N mom, N sis and very co-D father that nothing would surprise me......but every once in a while, their evil N heads rise up and do just that.

Here's my latest "surprise".  My niece....my N parents' only grandchild, is graduating from middle school next week.  This is a date that my N parents have know about for weeks.  Well, what do you know?  Late last night, my Nmom informs me she needs me to drive them to the airport this Friday because she, my co-D dad and my extremely N sis are taking themselves a little vacation and won't be back for a week.  Translation:  they will miss my niece's graduation.

Now, keep in mind, my Nmom admits that reservations were made at the "last minute."  My just as guiilty dad claims my Nsis's schedule "suddenly changed".  It "couldn't be helped".  So what a coincidence.  The one week on the only year in which my niece graduates just has to be the time when this vacation could take place.  Also know that my Nsis and parents regularly take this vacation....For the last 10 years they've vacationed together....always going to the same place, same hotel, etc.  So, it's not like this is anything special.  Just proves the Ns got themselves together to hatch this little plan.

In the meantime, my niece asked me today whether they will be attending her vacation....partly because only a certain number of tickets are available.  I told my dad that it is their responsiblity to tell her they won't be showing up.

Makes me mad and sick and angry.  How can a grandparent justify that kind of behavior?

[bearwithme]

Sunblue, I feel so bad for your little niece.  It is important for them to be there but I don't know if your niece feels that way too.  Your NM and Dad should tell her themselves for certain!  If this is their only grandchild, then it's too bad.  What a shame.  Life is short and can't they possibly post-pone their vacation to a later date or change it alltogther????  Nothing is impossible.

I hope they tell her and not stick it to you.

Bear

[sunblue]

Well, the saddest thing of all is that neither of them cares obviously about my niece.  I'm sure if it were up to them, they wouldn't even tell her they won't be attending.  They fully would leave it up to me...but I refuse....If they plan on hurting my niece like this, let them tell her themselves.  My guess is they won't though.  They'll just go on their merry way.

Actually, I believe this was deliberate on both my Nmom and Nsis's part.  They're both evil.  This is my mom's way of punishing my brother, still punishing him, because he didn't choose my Nsis as godmother.  Not at the time of what is normally a big event, my Nmom is holding a grudge again because my Nsis (who disowned my bro and his family) won't be there.  It is absolutely no coincidence that  my Nsis's "schedule" can only accommodate a vacation on the very week my niece graduates.  It is deliberate in my view.  What kind of grandparent would knowingly forfeit seeing their only grandchild graduate for a vacation they have every year?  Of course it could have been postponed.  In fact, they only made the reservations this week.

My niece WILL feel badly.  And now I'm going to be stuck being the only person from my brother's family attending...and left to answer all the questions.  Not to mention, he and I aren't exactly on great terms after my niece's decision regarding her Confirmation (she elected her mom's best friend instead of me as her sponsor...but that's another story).



I'm so ashamed of them....especially my co-D dad.

[gratitude28]

Sun,
My sister finally got on board and saw our family for real when she had her son. Our NM could give a fig about him. Of course she gushes to anyone who will listen, but it's a huge chore for her to be near any of her grandchildren. She pretends a lot for Co-D's sake, but I feel like he should see it... I mean, really! When they came to visit here, they did a smaller version of what you are describing - my kids were coming home from school for the day... NM of course slept through them leaving and hadn't seen them. She made my dad take her to the Outlet store as they were supposed to be getting home b/c she just HAD to check it out. Why the hell couldn't he say no????????
Hang in there, girl.
Love, Beth

[Twoapenny]

Sun, the way my mum treated my boy was the eye opener for me.  There are umpteen incidents over the years but the one that really got my goat was his third birthday.  We'd arranged a party in the park with all his little friends in the afternoon which my mum couldn't (wouldn't) attend because it would be too busy and noisy.  It was eight kids, with their mums, at a swing park in the forest.  So we arranged for her majesty to come over for a birthday tea instead.  We made two cakes, one for the party, one for the tea, organised two lots of food, changed the time of the party so that my boy wouldn't be too tired and could have a break in between.  On the morning of his birthday she calls to say she is ill and can't make it.  Fair enough, we all get bugs and it's not nice to pass them on to other people.  My sister shows up at my son's party that afternoon apologising for being late, but she and my mum had been out all morning - with her three year old and newborn baby.

Selfish isn't the word for them.

[BonesMS]

Sun, the way my mum treated my boy was the eye opener for me.  There are umpteen incidents over the years but the one that really got my goat was his third birthday.  We'd arranged a party in the park with all his little friends in the afternoon which my mum couldn't (wouldn't) attend because it would be too busy and noisy.  It was eight kids, with their mums, at a swing park in the forest.  So we arranged for her majesty to come over for a birthday tea instead.  We made two cakes, one for the party, one for the tea, organised two lots of food, changed the time of the party so that my boy wouldn't be too tired and could have a break in between.  On the morning of his birthday she calls to say she is ill and can't make it.  Fair enough, we all get bugs and it's not nice to pass them on to other people.  My sister shows up at my son's party that afternoon apologising for being late, but she and my mum had been out all morning - with her three year old and newborn baby.

Selfish isn't the word for them.

(((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))

My reaction to the TOTAL SELFISHNESS plus what other possible adjectives to describe her "royal @#$%-ness:  DAMN!!!!

Bones

[sunblue]

Twoapenny!

That's horrible!  It is just unfathomable to me....it's one thing to deliberately do things that they know will be hurtful to adults in their life...but children?  These lessons in betrayal and hurt from these kids' grandparents is a lesson they shouldn't have to learn....On the one hand, I guess it's unrealistic to expect that the N's behavior will change just because it is a grandchild and not their own child.....but to watch as they hurt these children...somehow seems even more painful than when it was done to me....I guess I'll never understand how these Ns can be so capable of cruelty to the ones they should be closest to..

What I've also recently understood is that the neglect from the co-D parent (in my case, my dad) is just as deep and painful as that of the N.  My dad has become so painfully co-D that looking back I realized I never meant anything to me.  His sole purpose on this life has been to please my N mom at whatever cost.  So double the whammy...and he shares the blame in my view....

But in the end, I guess all I can do is to try and remind my niece, in this case, that she has many people in her life who care about her and want to share her special day and try to make it as special for her as I can.....It just seems no matter how I try, I am forever stuck in this role of mediator and peacemaker...Maybe cause I'm that middle child...

Two, I hope your son will know how special he is, with or without his grandmother's persence...

[Hopalong]

This is my mom's way of punishing my brother

So she hurts the child.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

(You can't fix it by "explaining them" to her, Sunblue. Just give her your OWN love. You don't have to make up for their lack of it.)

I think that's a triangular trap a lot of sensitive people get stuck in...trying to protect others from N cruelty.

Your niece has an inevitable sad awakening and the only grace is, ultimately reality will be healthy for her.

Better to let HER feel the loss or disappointment than try to explain or maintain a myth, imo.

You don't want to give her YOUR OWN hurt to hold, but let her accept her own.

That's the only way she will become strong and not disabled by it. (She doesn't have to be...one really can move through it, with time and learning...)

xo
Hops

[gratitude28]

Sun,
When I read through some of the links people posted here on why they become so Co-Dependent, it made so much sense to me. I don't excuse my dad, but I understand a little bit. If you look back a page or so in the posts, mine should be there about my dad with the links. See if it strikes you as correct, too.
Love, Beth

[sunblue]

Hi Gratitude:

Thanks for the heads up...I looked up your post and much of the thread was dead on....Being married to an N is no picnic...and I understand that the reason our co-D dads were attracted to Ns in the first place was probably due to their own family issues.   But here's where I always get stuck.  From my view and study of true clinicial narcissism, the Ns have a personality disorder, that except in rare cases, can't be treated or corrected.  This disorder keeps them from understanding---or caring---about right and wrong.  However, from where I sit, that's not the case with co-D dads.  They may never want to admit it publicly to anyone...but they DO know the difference between right and wrong.  They DO understand that the N's behavior, neglect, cruelty, etc. and their support of that behavior is very hurtful to their children..and is indeed wrong, unfair, etc.  Yet, they continue to enable it.  What that says to me is this:  an N mom is incapable of caring about or loving her children (although I'm not advocating sympathy for them because of that) while the co-D dad is capable of it...he just chooses not to.  That shows me that while my co-D dad is capable of caring about others, he CHOOSES to ignore, neglect and hurt his children and grandchild.  Indeed, some years ago, there was a movie called "Absence of Malice".  In my view, that's not the case with co-D dads...Because they can choose....there is malice...there is an awareness, an understanding, an intent.

Maybe that's not a fair way to look at it.....but I think it's kind of true.  While co-D dads are desperately working at self-preservation, they willingly threw away their children...and their job...which was to love, support and nurture the children brought into the world.  I think that's why my anger is just as deep with my co-D dad as it is with my cruel Nmom.

[Hopalong]

Hi Sun...
My Dad was co-D and I certainly wished many a time that he would understand (with perception) how my mother was harming me. He was overwhelmed by the intense dynamic between her and me, though--and his innate gentleness also held him back from stepping in.

Part of it in his case, also, was generational. He was born in 1911. Loyalty to one's spouse was PRIMARY. The spouse came first. His own role model for how you treat your "bride" was significant as well---his own mother was disabled by a stroke for 13 years and his father responded from serious Christianity, with devotion and patience. So in part, my Dad was perfectly configured to be the spouse of a demanding Nlady. Mom was every bit a lady, and he waited on her hand and foot.

(And he was in love with my mother, for 50 years. Her N-ness had an uglier side with me, as she saw me as a competing female--for his attention. But for him, I believe, the charm, sparkle and beauty...and she did love him or make her life revolve around being half of the couple they were...so for him, she was THE ONE.)

Sometimes I yearned for more involvement and protection from my passive Dad. I never doubted that he loved me but I learned never to expect any particularly overt expression of it. He was just gentle, kind, and we liked to be goofy together. We didn't have "heart to hearts" about pain. He didn't know how.

I do not believe that he "chose" to ignore my pain. I think he just had no knowledge, no tools, and no idea what to do. My mother filled up the screen in his movie...

How old is your father? How educated is he? Has he been reared with the notion of psychology, therapy, addressing family issues in a direct or healthy way? Is he religious? Is he violent? What was his own father like?

Sometimes it helps to see them as just...a person. A guy. Grew up this way, learned that, didn't learn that.

Is that helpful? I don't want to come across as not validating your feelings.
I lived with a yearning for protection that didn't come. And that is anguishing for you.

I did have his affection, though. And that made all the difference.

Hops

[sunblue]

Howdy Hops:

I found your post very thought provoking.....I understand your point...that the N fills the co-D dad's full "life" screen...with no room for anything else.  Dads from older generations...have a hard time with all of this.  I will say that it's not so much that my dad doesn't understand therapy, psychology, etc, he refuses to go there.  I have had clinical depression all my life and had therapy.  A couple of years ago, I finally convinced my dad to attend a session with me and the doc.  It was a mistake.  Before we could even get started, he informed the doc, with a smirk and condescending attitude, that he just "didn't believe in this stuff...he.he. he" .  He refused to listen, he refused to participate really.  When I saw that, I just gave up and we rode home in silence.  It broke my heart because it was yet another reminder that he didn't care about me...even to the extent to want to help me.

I've always understand my dad was raised in less than ideal circumstances.  He had a very domineering mother who raised him and his siblings by herself as my dad's dad dies when he was 2....Times were hard and he met and married my mom at a very young age.  But even so, lots of people are raised in less than ideal circumstances...they don't all neglect and toss aside their children who are being harmed by their Nmoms, do they?

As for addressing issues, my family as a whole does not, and my co-D dad does not at all.  He is a sweet natured soul and I believe had he married someone else, he could have had some happiness in his life.  But ultimately, he would have been far better off had he not children.  He never took any real interest in any of us, never had a serious conversation about anything with us.  His whole life was and is my Nmom.  Just this week I witnessed this situation which sickened me.  My parents were watching a certain show on TV.  At the same tiime there was another program which my Nmom also wanted to wazch.  So she announced she would watch the other show in a nother room and go back and forth.  She asked for my dad's help in putting on the other TV.  He not only helped with the TV, he sat there next to her the whole time.  He's worse thana puppy dog.  Follows here everywhere..can't make a single decision himself.  I have no place in his life...nor do his other children or grandchild...

So, I can't say I believe he ever loved me.  His actions always proved to me the opposite.  When you ignore someone, when you take no interest in them..when you let the Nmom do anythiing she wants and neglect her children...how can that be love?

[Hopalong]

I'm sorry Sunblue.
He's failed to father you the way you needed.

Poor man, that scene of him following her like a beagle...She really is his True North. What a potent power.

I imagine if my Dad had been a little less gifted (he had a fortunate childhood and a professional life that was good for self-esteem) he would have been very similar.  He had just enough of his own dignity, and she had just enough decency, that they never became truly toxic in such an obvious way, to each other. Their marriage was remarkable.

It's got to be hard to see him, breathing and still present, and begin to realize that he just isn't able to give you what you need. I don't know if he "chooses" not to show love. I don't know if he feels it. Or knows how it feels. Sounds like he had such huge emptiness in his own childhood that True North is his center, his survival, his security (sad as it may look from outside).

For me, there was one amazing moment at the very end of my mother's life (she was 98) when she acknowledged how my brother had always treated me. In that honest moment, healing happened for us. I recognize what a grace it was.

Maybe there will be some moment, some day, when your father is able to reach out of his helplessness and give you some gesture that will help you move on with your life. But it may be many many years in the future. Or never.

It would be a shame to hold out for that, postponing your healing until a father, a niece, any biofamily person...gives you permission to feel worthy and whole, REGARDLESS.

You are. You were born that way. No inedequate parenting removes that worth and dignity you own.

Hops

[sunblue]

Hi Hops:

Thank you for writing such a thoughtful and meaningful post.  I'm so glad your mom was able to give you that one moment of ackowledgement in the end.  I can imagine how much that meant.  Even if it can't change things, I think that kind of acknowledgement can help bring some closure.  I know, in my case, I will never get that.  My parents would never, ever acknowledge they were anything less than perfect.  They would never acknowledge they contributed in any way to our pain.  So, no, I do not really hold out for that.  And you're right, it is sooo hard to watch my dad as he is.  He has made my mom his whole life....he doesn't want or need a relationship with any of his kids, I guess.  I think that's what is hard for me.  To know that he doesn't want a relationship, doesn't care if he doesn't have one with us.  What kind of parent is that?  I suppose it is one who really never cared to be a parent.  And, I think when you add in those realities with the ones provided me by my Nmom and Nsis...it is just just a painful truth.

I happen to be a very big fan (ok, obsessed fan!) of a TV show that just ended...called Lost.  Although many people hated the ending, I appreciated it..but it made me sad.  The end of the show demonstrated how a group of people who had gone through a lot of things together "found" each other before moving to the afterlife...because they understand the time they spent together was the best time of their lives.  They loved each other, were always there for each other, etc.  It was sad to realize I didn't have any of those people in my life.

Sometimes I can't help but wonder that since we won't get any ackowledgement, justice, grace on this earth from these families of ours, will it ever happen in an afterlife, assuming there is one....Or will what happened to us just be a reality of life.  I realize now how damaged and short-changed my life was because of them.  I also kick myself because I know in my family I'm the only person that "gets" thiis, who dwells on it, who has trouble accepting it.

[Hopalong]

Sun...
here's the thing: My mother did NOT acknowledge she was wrong.
She didn't have an impulse to feel responsible for my pain. I really think the distinction is, she felt genuinely sorry in that moment for my suffering--the part of her that did empathize was moved and saddened. But that's not the same thing as her feeling that she was responsible for it. I don't think she felt that sense of responsiblility, or not that I could tell.

She DID have an impulse to be truthful with me in that moment, and tell me that she knew it had happened (my brother's mistreatment).

I think to acknowledge at the same time, I failed you as a mother (in my instance, by not protecting me)...is something that would not have occured to her. And perhaps it was part of her narcissism, which she could not help.

It brings a question to my mind about the relation between empathy and guilt.

She had a truth-telling impulse that rose up in that last sunny conversation in a quiet courtyard. She saw what pain I was in, her days were dwindling, and her usual fortress of denial yielded. I did not batter it down. I really wasn't expecting anything. I just decided to tell her I was in pain (in the present, because of what my brother was doing).

She responded to my pain by saying, What is wrong with your brother? You don't DO that to your sister (he'd tried to have me arrested, accused me of fraud, etc.--because he was absent as a caregiver, I did it all...he wanted to take over--long toxic tale). And she said, We knew your brother was always hurting you.

She showed sorrow that I had been hurt but no guilt or shame or apology (about her mothering)--or understanding how he had affected my entire life. And that was okay. I didn't want her to feel guilty. I was comforted enough by her saying something TRUE about a thing that had been never spoken about. (And it was a surprise. I wasn't "looking" for it.)

I'm sure it never, ever would have happened if I had told her about his current behavior with a micron of blame or accusation ("You weren't the mother I needed") in my heart. I was so past that. The issue of blame was completely over for me. I literally didn't feel it any more (though I had for many many years). I had nothing left but fatigue, and compassion for her. I was just sitting beside her wheelchair, in a present moment, and told her something true.

And she responded with something true, that was healing for me to hear. It was like acknowledging facts. Reality. That was all. She just said, it was true, I know. And that was amaaaaazing. I was no longer alone in my memories.

Apology, though, or ownership, or apology or shame or anything like that...any "confession"...was not what happened.

But it was good enough for me. If I had understood, truly understood, sooner, that she could not give what she did not have (regardless of my opinions or judgments of what a mother SHOULD do or have to give her child) -- I would have suffered much less and healed much sooner.

It was just reality. And I think reality is a tremendous friend. Hope, expectations, blame, maneuverings, manipulation, preaching, exhortation, wishing, trying to urge or help or compel someone else to "get it" -- I tried them all. Still do slip there now and then. But they never did one trace of anything as useful for me as accepting reality (letting tragedy go) did.

hugs
hops