Gift Giving

[Anonymous]

For the two posters who addressed S:  you know S is an N. I know S is an N. S doesn't know S is an N. I do not respond or address her in any way. I think many others don't as well. It is useless. If S had empathy and good intent, she would know she causes pain and chaos here and be gone.

Possibly many n's wouldn't even tolerate a child sex offender to remain in their home. My SIL wouldn't and I think she's an n.

Any offer or plot or scheme to kill harm rob or sexually offend anybody particularly a child is a jailable crime in my country and S's too.  People are being jailed over this very thing happening on the internet. Any adult caught making any offer of sex to a child over the internet nowdays is liable to be caught by undercover net police and get a jail sentence. Why? Because an offer is an act, not a thought.

Also, an offer forms the essential basis of any contract under common law. You can have no acceptance without first having an offer on which to accept it.

Which is precisely why S's husbands offer was a serious jailable offence. If I offer to kill someone I will be arrested and tried. It need not even have been accepted by the other party I make the proposition too. I have presented and given my full consent of the contract to be accepted by the other party. That is all I need to have done to have committed a crime.

Thankfully, S's child wisely declined the offer which never should have been made. The offer was a gravely serious illegal act.

I am saddened for those members here who experienced sexual abuse as children. I am saddened that you see S's presence still here on a daily basis as a reminder.

Please take heart in this statement.

S couldn't see well enough to do the right thing by her own children. How can we expect her to see what harm her selfishness in staying here causes? Also, how can we expect her to put others first here when she couldn't do that for her own children?

Also, I don't accept you have a right to a presence here S. You could and should find a more appropriate forum for your real issues. I don't believe your sister is your 'real' problem. Also I doubt your intentions here.

B

[Anonymous]

*****hooray*****

for saying so clearly what others here have been thinking and trying to say.
THANK YOU!
I feel a peace here, at last.

[Anonymous]

*****hooray*****

for saying so clearly what others here have been thinking and trying to say.
THANK YOU!
I feel a peace here, at last.

Me too **** **** I want to move those words up for others to read.

[Anonymous]

For the two posters who addressed S:  you know S is an N. I know S is an N. S doesn't know S is an N. I do not respond or address her in any way. I think many others don't as well. It is useless. If S had empathy and good intent, she would know she causes pain and chaos here and be gone.

Possibly many n's wouldn't even tolerate a child sex offender to remain in their home. My SIL wouldn't and I think she's an n.

Any offer or plot or scheme to kill harm rob or sexually offend anybody particularly a child is a jailable crime in my country and S's too.  People are being jailed over this very thing happening on the internet. Any adult caught making any offer of sex to a child over the internet nowdays is liable to be caught by undercover net police and get a jail sentence. Why? Because an offer is an act, not a thought.

Also, an offer forms the essential basis of any contract under common law. You can have no acceptance without first having an offer on which to accept it.

Which is precisely why S's husbands offer was a serious jailable offence. If I offer to kill someone I will be arrested and tried. It need not even have been accepted by the other party I make the proposition too. I have presented and given my full consent of the contract to be accepted by the other party. That is all I need to have done to have committed a crime.

Thankfully, S's child wisely declined the offer which never should have been made. The offer was a gravely serious illegal act.

I am saddened for those members here who experienced sexual abuse as children. I am saddened that you see S's presence still here on a daily basis as a reminder.

Please take heart in this statement.

S couldn't see well enough to do the right thing by her own children. How can we expect her to see what harm her selfishness in staying here causes? Also, how can we expect her to put others first here when she couldn't do that for her own children?

Also, I don't accept you have a right to a presence here S. You could and should find a more appropriate forum for your real issues. I don't believe your sister is your 'real' problem. Also I doubt your intentions here.

B

[Anonymous]

I think we should repost this at least 10 times a day. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm glad people are finally speaking up a bit more. And thanks to those who have tried in the past and been taken to task for being too mean or direct. Thanks to everyone who loves their kids and wouldn't let a sex offender anywhere near them. I'm beginning to have faith in this place again after this.

[Anonymous]

California has a proposition to impose a "one strike" rule against sex offenders of children, specifically those who molest or harm children under age 14 and/or who are ten years younger than the offender.  It's attached to the three strikes modification proposition...

In other words, some of us folks feel sexual abuse of children is NEVER excusable and should be more harshly dealt with for the irreparable damage done to innocents.

[Anonymous]

For the two posters who addressed S:  you know S is an N. I know S is an N. S doesn't know S is an N. I do not respond or address her in any way. I think many others don't as well. It is useless. If S had empathy and good intent, she would know she causes pain and chaos here and be gone.

Possibly many n's wouldn't even tolerate a child sex offender to remain in their home. My SIL wouldn't and I think she's an n.

Any offer or plot or scheme to kill harm rob or sexually offend anybody particularly a child is a jailable crime in my country and S's too.  People are being jailed over this very thing happening on the internet. Any adult caught making any offer of sex to a child over the internet nowdays is liable to be caught by undercover net police and get a jail sentence. Why? Because an offer is an act, not a thought.

Also, an offer forms the essential basis of any contract under common law. You can have no acceptance without first having an offer on which to accept it.

Which is precisely why S's husbands offer was a serious jailable offence. If I offer to kill someone I will be arrested and tried. It need not even have been accepted by the other party I make the proposition too. I have presented and given my full consent of the contract to be accepted by the other party. That is all I need to have done to have committed a crime.

Thankfully, S's child wisely declined the offer which never should have been made. The offer was a gravely serious illegal act.

I am saddened for those members here who experienced sexual abuse as children. I am saddened that you see S's presence still here on a daily basis as a reminder.

Please take heart in this statement.

S couldn't see well enough to do the right thing by her own children. How can we expect her to see what harm her selfishness in staying here causes? Also, how can we expect her to put others first here when she couldn't do that for her own children?

Also, I don't accept you have a right to a presence here S. You could and should find a more appropriate forum for your real issues. I don't believe your sister is your 'real' problem. Also I doubt your intentions here.

B

[Anonymous]

Hey guys and girls,

I am seeing the guest function being put to very good use here. Sometimes a mask lets us tell the truth (and of course sometimes.....well you know the rest). Won't go there for now.

[Anonymous]

For the two posters who addressed S: you know S is an N. I know S is an N. S doesn't know S is an N. I do not respond or address her in any way. I think many others don't as well. It is useless. If S had empathy and good intent, she would know she causes pain and chaos here and be gone.

I was one of those two - I'm sorry - it took me such a long time to understand.  I still find it difficult to say 'go away'.  But I think B might be right about doubting S's intentions.

[Solace]

Thinking out loud:

Maybe the Guests are right and I'm the crazy one?  Maybe it was wrong of me to ask my sister to only communicate in writing with me and wrong of me to want to have a way to hear her words and help her stop denying that she said this or that?  Maybe when she rejected me publicly, I should have gone to her and begged for mercy and told her that it was the right thing to do--to reject me publicly instead of to my face, or at least in writing to me.  Maybe I should have told her what she wanted to hear, just to keep peace, for my children's sake?  Maybe I should've made excuses for the junky gifts she sent them and maybe I should have found a way to devalue the beautiful ones she sent me, after her public rejection?  Maybe I should have somehow, found a way to make my kids think she was being nice or extra kind, in some reasonable way, maybe?  Maybe she has a right to take whatever actions she likes against me, no matter how she looks to my kids, no matter that they express how her behaviour hurts them?  I'm not there when she makes nasty statements about me but my kids are and they tell her they don't want to hear it and that it hurts them but she doesn't listen.  Maybe I should take responsibility for the way her words hurt them?  I try to help them understand, sometimes,  how their aunt might be feeling but maybe that's not enough?   I even make excuses for her, but I'm doing less of that now.   Maybe I should take alll responsibility for everyone's behaviour like my husband did?   After all, I'm the criminal who started the whole process, right?  Maybe I'm ultimately responsible for everything everyone says and does?  Maybe I have 14 different disorders and I'm the one whose marbles have finally cracked?  Maybe all of the doctors here on this board know better?  Maybe the labels that have been assigned to me, that are derogatory, hurtful and damaging are not abusive?  Maybe it's ok to label people and send them packing if we choose not to empathize with them?  Do any of you agree?

Maybe some people here just won't accept my words because of whatever happened to them that they just won't choose to keep from blending with what happened in my family?   Maybe they think the fact that 7 years went by after that, without my husband ever behaving in such a way again, with him controlling his own thoughts and behaviour, with him trying to make up for it all, before his behaviour was brought to light, is no indication of the future?  Maybe they think they know more than the experts? Wait, I haven't given that info yet.  Maybe it's hard for them to accept such an idea and maybe they just don't realize that's it's NOT impossible to accept?  Maybe they don't see their CHOICE that they are making to continuously insist that IIIII am a liar,  IIIII am a sick one?  Maybe they don't know that over 96% of molestations are perpetrated by people with no previous offenses?  Maybe they refuse to believe that my husband served his sentence and more and is still paying?

Speaking to you:

Maybe it's ok to prey on me?  To follow my posts with abusive insults and bullying?

I'm causing chaos and pain here?  No.  Maybe you've decided that I'm causing chaos and pain here.  Maybe you've made up your mind that no matter what I say--it's a lie, that I'm out to hurt you and that I'm any number of labels.  I'm a daily reminder of what happened to you?  No, maybe you've decided that I'm a daily reminder of what happened to you.  There are any number of daily reminders of what happened to you, in the world, on this board (by other people's experiences), in your head.  I haven't got a thing to do with what happened to you but maybe you've decided that I do.  I create the situations I complain about?  Aren't you doing that?  Aren't you trying your best to make me out to be what you've decided I am and trying to chaotically convince the rest of the board of your "truth" and incite chaotic response?  In any possible manner?  Sadly, I've learnt nothing?  How the heck do you know what I've learnt?  I should stop hurting people and driving them nuts?   Shake your head.  What are you talking about?  Can you hear yourself?  How many labels have I put on you?  How many times have I tried to indicate that you are a liar?  How many times have I rejected you, not your advice or opinion, but you?  How many abusive names have I called you?  How many times have I followed one of your posts with a demeaning comment?  None.  I may not have diagreed with you, and that's ok, isn't it? But I haven't done those other things and you're saying IIIII'm the one hurting and driving you nuts?  That's in your head.  Not my stuff.

If I had empathy?  You have no idea how much empathy I have, yet it seems you've decided exactly and factually, in your head, that I don't have any?  I'm causing you pain?  Maybe the realization that your abuse of me is wrong-- is causing you pain-- but that's not such a bad thing, is it?  Is it??????  Other than that, your pain is your pain and I have nothing to do with it.  It seems you've decided that I do.  I'd like to help you feel better.  I might actually be able to share something of value with you and you with me, but it seems you have decided that that won't happen and what my intentions are.  It also appears that you have decided that you know what I want and what I am out to accomplish.  That's in your head.  Maybe you don't think I have a right to speak here?  That's in your head too because I deserve the same basic human rights as you, regardless of whether or not you wish to accept that idea or not.  It looks like you have somehow decided that I am less than human and therefore don't deserve those basic rights.  That's in your head.  I am human and I am just a person who is in pain too.  I am not responsible for what's happened to you and you are not responsible for what's happened to me.  But you are responsible for your own words.  Conflicts get resolved, though, when people take responsibility for their behaviour.  I don't need your appologies, you do.  I think you may need to forgive yourself first.  For making mistakes.  We all make mistakes.  We all make judgements that are incorrect.  I understand and I can easily empathize with your difficulty in admitting that, to yourself.  I am a constant reminder of the mistakes you've made in regard to me.  That's the real issue, isn't it?

And I see  "I'm sorry.  It took me such a long time to understand".  Is that some kind of appology?  Sorry for what?  Sorry that I'm still here pointing out your bullying?  Sorry that you called me a hurtful name or 10?  Sorry that you must state what's in your head about my intentions?  Sorry that you've labelled me with a medical diagnosis, a damaging label that others have accepted?  Understand what?  Are you really sorry for anything?  I don't understand.  And I already forgive you because I know you are a good person who has been badly hurt.  Do you hear me?  I'm not angry with you.  I believe in you.

You do not know the many n behaviours of my sister, and the n speak she has showered on me, for years and years, long before ANY husband or children of mine were on the scene.  Maybe you think you're trying to help me see things through my sister's eyes?  I'm already trying too hard to see things through my sister's eyes and that's why I feel guilty for feeling angry with her behaviour.  That's the way I see it.   Maybe I'm wrong?

Maybe, you have only considered ONE of my children.  You don't realize that my other child was devestated by the loss of her step-dad.  Went beserk.  Practically insane, when I threw him out, and for a long time after.  She still suffers.  She swears he has never done anything to hurt her.  She was broken by the loss and is still very pained by it.  I believe her.  Do you?

Do you really think you have all of the facts?  Do you really think your judgements are fair?  Do you really think it's ok to decide what's best for EVERYONE in my family?  Do you really think I should divorce my husband for YOU?  How ridiculous is that????  Isn't that ridiculous?
Come on, be real.  Be real to you.  No need to beat yourself up.  No need to feel guilty.  That won't help you.  Maybe it would be better to take your own steps to correct your own thinking?  That will help you, won't it?

[Anonymous]

I think we should repost this at least 10 times a day. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm glad people are finally speaking up a bit more. And thanks to those who have tried in the past and been taken to task for being too mean or direct. Thanks to everyone who loves their kids and wouldn't let a sex offender anywhere near them. I'm beginning to have faith in this place again after this.

I can't understand a woman wanting to stay with a man had such thoughts in his head that he would make a sexual offer to a child.  The child did not take up the offer, but did not feel comfortable telling her mother about it and kept it a secret for years and only brought it out into the open (and not to her mother) when it feared its younger sister would be victimized the same way.  If this man had truly felt he had done wrong, he would have confessed the minute he had transgressed, not when he was confronted years later.     What was the offer?   It must have been pretty bad for this chlid to be so afraid for her sister that she broke her silence to protect her.

[Anonymous]

Thinking out loud:

Maybe the Guests are right and I'm the crazy one?  Maybe it was wrong of me to ask my sister to only communicate in writing with me and wrong of me to want to have a way to hear her words and help her stop denying that she said this or that?  Maybe when she rejected me publicly, I should have gone to her and begged for mercy and told her that it was the right thing to do--to reject me publicly instead of to my face, or at least in writing to me.  Maybe I should have told her what she wanted to hear, just to keep peace, for my children's sake?  Maybe I should've made excuses for the junky gifts she sent them and maybe I should have found a way to devalue the beautiful ones she sent me, after her public rejection?  Maybe I should have somehow, found a way to make my kids think she was being nice or extra kind, in some reasonable way, maybe?  Maybe she has a right to take whatever actions she likes against me, no matter how she looks to my kids, no matter that they express how her behaviour hurts them?  I'm not there when she makes nasty statements about me but my kids are and they tell her they don't want to hear it and that it hurts them but she doesn't listen.  Maybe I should take responsibility for the way her words hurt them?  I try to help them understand, sometimes,  how their aunt might be feeling but maybe that's not enough?   I even make excuses for her, but I'm doing less of that now.   Maybe I should take alll responsibility for everyone's behaviour like my husband did?   After all, I'm the criminal who started the whole process, right?  Maybe I'm ultimately responsible for everything everyone says and does?  Maybe I have 14 different disorders and I'm the one whose marbles have finally cracked?  Maybe all of the doctors here on this board know better?  Maybe the labels that have been assigned to me, that are derogatory, hurtful and damaging are not abusive?  Maybe it's ok to label people and send them packing if we choose not to empathize with them?  Do any of you agree?

Maybe some people here just won't accept my words because of whatever happened to them that they just won't choose to keep from blending with what happened in my family?   Maybe they think the fact that 7 years went by after that, without my husband ever behaving in such a way again, with him controlling his own thoughts and behaviour, with him trying to make up for it all, before his behaviour was brought to light, is no indication of the future?  Maybe they think they know more than the experts? Wait, I haven't given that info yet.  Maybe it's hard for them to accept such an idea and maybe they just don't realize that's it's NOT impossible to accept?  Maybe they don't see their CHOICE that they are making to continuously insist that IIIII am a liar,  IIIII am a sick one?  Maybe they don't know that over 96% of molestations are perpetrated by people with no previous offenses?  Maybe they refuse to believe that my husband served his sentence and more and is still paying?

Speaking to you:

Maybe it's ok to prey on me?  To follow my posts with abusive insults and bullying?

I'm causing chaos and pain here?  No.  Maybe you've decided that I'm causing chaos and pain here.  Maybe you've made up your mind that no matter what I say--it's a lie, that I'm out to hurt you and that I'm any number of labels.  I'm a daily reminder of what happened to you?  No, maybe you've decided that I'm a daily reminder of what happened to you.  There are any number of daily reminders of what happened to you, in the world, on this board (by other people's experiences), in your head.  I haven't got a thing to do with what happened to you but maybe you've decided that I do.  I create the situations I complain about?  Aren't you doing that?  Aren't you trying your best to make me out to be what you've decided I am and trying to chaotically convince the rest of the board of your "truth" and incite chaotic response?  In any possible manner?  Sadly, I've learnt nothing?  How the heck do you know what I've learnt?  I should stop hurting people and driving them nuts?   Shake your head.  What are you talking about?  Can you hear yourself?  How many labels have I put on you?  How many times have I tried to indicate that you are a liar?  How many times have I rejected you, not your advice or opinion, but you?  How many abusive names have I called you?  How many times have I followed one of your posts with a demeaning comment?  None.  I may not have diagreed with you, and that's ok, isn't it? But I haven't done those other things and you're saying IIIII'm the one hurting and driving you nuts?  That's in your head.  Not my stuff.

If I had empathy?  You have no idea how much empathy I have, yet it seems you've decided exactly and factually, in your head, that I don't have any?  I'm causing you pain?  Maybe the realization that your abuse of me is wrong-- is causing you pain-- but that's not such a bad thing, is it?  Is it??????  Other than that, your pain is your pain and I have nothing to do with it.  It seems you've decided that I do.  I'd like to help you feel better.  I might actually be able to share something of value with you and you with me, but it seems you have decided that that won't happen and what my intentions are.  It also appears that you have decided that you know what I want and what I am out to accomplish.  That's in your head.  Maybe you don't think I have a right to speak here?  That's in your head too because I deserve the same basic human rights as you, regardless of whether or not you wish to accept that idea or not.  It looks like you have somehow decided that I am less than human and therefore don't deserve those basic rights.  That's in your head.  I am human and I am just a person who is in pain too.  I am not responsible for what's happened to you and you are not responsible for what's happened to me.  But you are responsible for your own words.  Conflicts get resolved, though, when people take responsibility for their behaviour.  I don't need your appologies, you do.  I think you may need to forgive yourself first.  For making mistakes.  We all make mistakes.  We all make judgements that are incorrect.  I understand and I can easily empathize with your difficulty in admitting that, to yourself.  I am a constant reminder of the mistakes you've made in regard to me.  That's the real issue, isn't it?

And I see  "I'm sorry.  It took me such a long time to understand".  Is that some kind of appology?  Sorry for what?  Sorry that I'm still here pointing out your bullying?  Sorry that you called me a hurtful name or 10?  Sorry that you must state what's in your head about my intentions?  Sorry that you've labelled me with a medical diagnosis, a damaging label that others have accepted?  Understand what?  Are you really sorry for anything?  I don't understand.  And I already forgive you because I know you are a good person who has been badly hurt.  Do you hear me?  I'm not angry with you.  I believe in you.

You do not know the many n behaviours of my sister, and the n speak she has showered on me, for years and years, long before ANY husband or children of mine were on the scene.  Maybe you think you're trying to help me see things through my sister's eyes?  I'm already trying too hard to see things through my sister's eyes and that's why I feel guilty for feeling angry with her behaviour.  That's the way I see it.   Maybe I'm wrong?

Maybe, you have only considered ONE of my children.  You don't realize that my other child was devestated by the loss of her step-dad.  Went beserk.  Practically insane, when I threw him out, and for a long time after.  She still suffers.  She swears he has never done anything to hurt her.  She was broken by the loss and is still very pained by it.  I believe her.  Do you?

Do you really think you have all of the facts?  Do you really think your judgements are fair?  Do you really think it's ok to decide what's best for EVERYONE in my family?  Do you really think I should divorce my husband for YOU?  How ridiculous is that????  Isn't that ridiculous?
Come on, be real.  Be real to you.  No need to beat yourself up.  No need to feel guilty.  That won't help you.  Maybe it would be better to take your own steps to correct your own thinking?  That will help you, won't it?

You are living with a man who made a sexual offer to your child.  Most people will never understand that, no matter how many words you use to try to explain it.  You are the one who is going to have to live with your decision, you can't force others to accept it.

You don't belong here.

Period.

[Solace]

Many men have such thoughts.  They just don't admit it.  Maybe you are not aware of that?

Now you want the exact details.  Again, you do not have to respect MY boundaries, right?

Keep writing the story and you'll come up with some real smashers, but that won'd make them facts.

Go for it.  It seems you do not hear or believe my words or want to know any truth at all.  Fiction is much more entertaining, maybe?

S

[Anonymous]

Many men have such thoughts.  They just don't admit it.  Maybe you are not aware of that?

Now you want the exact details.  Again, you do not have to respect MY boundaries, right?

Keep writing the story and you'll come up with some real smashers, but that won'd make them facts.

Go for it.  It seems you do not hear or believe my words or want to know any truth at all.  Fiction is much more entertaining, maybe?

S

They may have the thoughts, but they don't act on them.   That is the difference, your gem of a husband did.  To a child, your daughter.

I remember what you wrote, I don't need to embellish.  

You don't belong here.

Period.

[Solace]

In that particular post, you did not embellish.  But all the other embellishing stuff must now be excused? It's justifyable, is it?  You seem to have decided who belongs where?  That's in your head.  Oh well,  whatever.

S