N's and sudden change, do they?

[bearwithme]

I was wondering about N's and change.  More specifically, changes in lifestyle or increasing certain focuses in their lives.  Do N's in general, when they get older, change?  do they focus more on OTHER things than they are supposed to be focusing on?  Do N's need something to lean on i.e., hobbies, religion, dreams, etc.  Like, let's take the lonely N.  Do they become worse because they have no family any more?  Do they lean more on their sociopathic beliefs?

I want to state a specific example here.  My NM and religion.  NM has always been somewhat religious but not to the degree she is today.  She was raised Roman Catholic but abandoned the practice about 30 years ago and became Christian.  She raised my brother and myself as such, sort of.  She was mildly involved in the church activities and also had other focuses in life as well which was us kids, etc.  Over the course of the past 5 to 7 years she has become increasingly religious.  I'm talking, she totes around her Bible study workbooks, paperwork and placards.  She talks about HER God, HER savior and HER salvation, etc.   She throws God in my face and tells me that I "don't see the light."  In our blow out fight where I kicked her out of my house (back in April) she screamed about God and how she was "forgiven for all sins" and made reference that me an my husband don't "have God in [our] lives."  This is all so new to me.

She has even gone as far as telling everyone that it has been her lifelong dream to visit Israel and the holy land.  WTF?  All my life she has NEVER had such dream!  Now she wants to spend $8,000 on a 3 week trip to Israel?  I'm even more perturbed as she has recently come into some money and will use the money for this "holy" trip but won't contribute to her only granddaughter's college fund like I suggested one time when she even asked herself what she could do for the baby, and how can she provide for her future, etc.  This was 3 years ago and my daughter has not seen a penny from Ngrandma. 

She uses God to try and hurt me, it seems.  Recently, NM has had a weird religious slant on things.  She is EXTREMELY active in the church. 

This is hurtful to write this and remember but here it goes:  on her last visit in April, I talked about how I had to get a job.  Hubby and I weren't making ends meet.  We were about to go under if I didn't find something quick because being a stay at home mom for 1 1/2 years took a toll on our bank account.  We couldn't afford the place where we were renting so we moved to a much smaller place and I complained to her that it was hard at this time in our lives, etc.  Well, a few days later, she asked me to take her to the post-office so that she could mail some things off.  I said yes and drove her to the post office and we parked out front.  She pulled out her checkbook and proceeded to write approximately 3-4 checks and put them into envelopes.  One was for $150.00, another for $200.00 and another in the ball bark of $200.00.  As she wrote them out, NM was explaining that she just got a call from a friend at church who said that the "families in need weren't going to fit the provisions for the food-stamp program so they needed donations ASAP."   

NM did not hesitate to help out.  She wrote them out in plain sight so that I would see.  When I looked away and played with my car radio, that's when she explained her story.  NM said, "I'm so glad I can help those poor, poor families, there are 3 families with a lot of kids who need clothes and food...God is our savior and he has blessed me to have the means to do this..."

Simply, I was hurt.  I was hurt by HER God.

Okay, I've gotten off the subject here.  Sorry.  Anyways, what is it with this?  I think it's quite coincidental that she started her religious quest about 5-7 years ago right around the time I got engaged then married a year later, then had a baby almost 3 years ago.  I was the only family member left for her before all this happend, whereas before, I did focus some time an energy on her (somewhat).

NM really changed a lot in this respect.  Her religious focus has become intense and flamboyant.  In my opinion, she has unhealthy beliefs (I'm ducking from lightning bolts as I say that!) but really.  Her beliefs aren't on the healthy side of living on this planet.  She truly believes God has forgiven her so she doesn't "need anybody else."  NM said this, I'm not kidding, "No, I don't need a man in my life, I didn't need a husband either, I don't need any kind of man other than God, if that man isn't God, then I don't want anything to do with him." 

Is this NM's vain attempt to justify her being "alone" in life?  Or is this real?  Has she changed because of age?  She was never like this before and it's a bit surprising to hear her talk about God this way and use God in the way she does.

Or! should I be ashamed of myself for slighting her this way?  Should I be proud of her that she gave those families money and thank God for that as well?  Am I selfish for thinking that she could listen to God and give the money to her only daughter who has a baby at home and no job????

All in all, why the sudden change in her life?  I'd feel better if she just got worse as an N but now she's evolved into a religious N!!! What gives??

Sorry I ranted all over the place..

Bear

[Butterfly]

Hi, Bear.  How dare she!!  How dare she do that to you!  How dare she even consider the plight of strangers when her own family is in need and then to make a show of it!  What a sadist!  You have nothing to be ashamed about, Bear.  It has been my experience that Ns delight in seeing their scapegoat fall down and stay down.  It is the only way they can feel "good" about themselves (if you can call it good).  Yes, sadism is a large part of narcissistic abuse. 


It seems we have parallel lives.  Your NM is my NM.  In fact, my NM's religious rants were part of the reason I went NC three years ago.  She screamed at me in front of my toddlers that I was going to be destroyed by God because I was evil, that my children would be killed by God, that I was a terrible devil mother, etc. etc.  Yes, she uses her religion to aid and abet her narcissistic abuse.  And, she made a point of telling me when my children were born that she would not be helping me out in any way (financially or otherwise) and that I was on my own.  She smiled while she said it--she obviously enjoyed the conversation.  And, I had not even asked her for anything. 

My NM is involved with a religious group that claims that they are the "true church," they have a special channel to God, and all others will be destroyed by God.  This group seems to collect Ns.  Ns want to feel they are special, singled out, etc.  And, if they are part of a group that tells them God is favoring them while not favoring most others, well, you can see how this would appeal to an N.  I am sure this is why my NM is involved with her cult.  I really don't think being Christ-like has much motivation for an N, and I have never seen my NM act like Jesus would act. 

Your mother's joy in hurting you by pointedly writing those checks at such a time is such a calculated maneuver.  If I were you I would step away from her because if there are going to be lightning bolts, right to her is probably where they are headed. 

Hugs,
Butterfly

[teartracks]

Hi bear,

Maybe your Mum is experiencing an attitude change and not a personality change.  Narcissism is apparently a disorder of the personality and very hard to change.  But perhaps an N can have a change in attitude that might appear to be a personality change.  I don't know.  Just kicking in the dust here.

tt




  

[bearwithme]

CB wrote:

You are being hurt by someone  because you want something from her that probably ACTUALLY represents the REAL thing you want.

I have found this to be so on point for me.  This must be true.  How could it not?  I yearn, therefore, I yearn.  She will never give me the "mother" that I so deserve and I'm honestly hurt by it all, hence, her God is the culprit because that's who she is, God's little angel or soldier.  And CB, thank you.  I will journal a bit more about this.  You also speak of the empty nest.  Oddly,  she left MY nest.  I was left at home and she left me.  I did stay a lot longer at home (age 23) but she decided to leave, divorce my father and move out of the house and live with another man.  NM also wanted to "keep" me close all the same while she acted like a teenager.  So from age 23 to 35 I remained unmarried and at her disposal emotionally.  I supported her when her nuclear family fell apart and the guilt from thoughts of her feeling alone was too much to bear; I promised to uphold her happiness and self worth.  I told her every day that I loved her and that she was a perfect person.  Seriously. I did.  Until one day when I'd had enough and finally stuck up for myself (due to extensive therapy).

and the dream she has "always" had to go to the Holy Land may be replacing the dreams that never came true--or perhaps she is just now realizing that she never had any dreams and she is aware that that's not normal.  It all LOOKS like in your face religion--but it may ACTUALLY be a cry for someone to validate that she still has worth. 

I think this is sooooo true.  But who can validate her self worth?  I have failed for 43 years of my life trying to make her worthy.  Truth is, she has a big black hole in her soul that NOBODY can fill and I'm sorry to say but, not even God fills this hole that she has.  So what is my purpose with her?  What does she want from me?  Why can't she go live alone and be famous among her church friends and feel fullfilled?  Why does she go after me??

As for the money.  She has never, ever been good with money.  All my life she has been horrible about it.  Now, she recently received some big bucks and seems to be going crazy with it, like a kid in a candy shop  or something.  She's giving money away left and right.  NM just spent $18,000.00 on new windows, carpet, paint and all new doors in her home.  Hey that's great, really.  But she flaunts it and I find it disturbing.  My brother just filed BK and could use just a "few" bucks.  But no.  And hey, by all means, she is NOT responsible financially for her children anymore!  But sometimes, it just hurts to find these things out.

Side note here: I have a job now and things have improved significantly.  I've been working for 3 months now and it's been a Godsend for us.

CB:  you have given me great things to ponder and another side to this, one I did not expect, to tell you the truth.  I see how her empty nest is upsidedown eventhough it's a bit late in the game for her to claim such a phase, but it's true nontheless.  She can not grow with me.  I'm still NC after 3 months and I'm still sad:(


tt: You're on to something....elaborate if you will....

[Sealynx]

N's growing older deserves its own book. I find they don't switch N-feeds gracefully. Any life change that upsets their apple cart seems to result in a new mania. After my father died, my mother spent her days looking through phone books for the names of doctors she dated in nursing school ...60 years ago!!! She also began to ask my father's cardiologist who was at least 25 years her junior to do things. She had wanted to marry a doctor when she fell for my handsome father and was now going to find herself one!!

I think there is also the issue of perspective. The further you move emotionally into your own life and away from her, the more you see. After my father died I tried to help put financial affairs in order and was embarrassed more times than I can count for the effort. She had a new source of N feed, getting people to help her, and my presence made it look like she wasn't helpless so she would set me up to look stupid.

[bearwithme]

Sealynx, we can be contributor for that book indeed!  I may keep a journal just to document her aging process and how she changes in her own N ways.  Just thinking about her sudden religious quest/practice, I can't help but think she's a bit desperate.  I don't know why this is.  Perhaps a stereotype of person's with new found faith?
Your dealings with your mother sounds painful.  She didn't get it and you were stuck int he middle out of your own kind hear.  Figures, doesn't it!?!?

All the studies seem to say that N's really don't "change."  But I don't understand that because they sort of change within their own N world, if I can imagine that.  Like what else can they pull out of their hat??? 

I wonder if I stayed close with my NM and stayed serving her every whim and need and continued to glorify her existence, she wouldn't have indulged in the new religious/righteous quest? 

Another question here and I don't want to step on anybody's toes regarding religion or beliefs, etc.

There are religious people who are religious and have faith, go to church, live by God, pray, etc.  But what happens to the person like my NM who has this religious beliefs but feels the need to display her "righteousness" and "God in on MY side" mantra and flaunts it around in a mean way, like to punish or to set me apart from her, like she is better than me??  There are other people who do this that are not N's as well, like the person who feels the need to tell you about God and how you don't have enough of him in your life.  How the heck do they know?

I know religion is a very taboo subject on boards and people stay away from these kinds of posts for fear of stirring a pot or two.  But my query is not based on religion or beliefs itself, it's based on how N's, and in my case it's my NM, how she suddenly found "power" in all this.  Power to pass her religious thoughts along in addition to her other N thoughts and/or opinions.

I may be babbling here but I'm baffled.  I think it's just too weird and a bit scary.  Sorry, but I do.  I'm almost afraid of her right now, now that I think about it.


What will she change into next????

Thanks for listening.

Bear

[teartracks]

Hi bear,

Unfortunately, there's not a stratum of society where you won't find narcissists.  (If there is, I want to find it.)  That includes religious circles and it doesn't matter which religion it is.   I don't want to get into doctrine or dogma, but I think it's possible that your Mum has found salvation within her chosen faith, which I think you said was Christianity.   If that's the case, great.  That doesn't mean that NPD has left her or that she'll quit dogging you.  God has more patience, mercy and love than we're capable of, but then He's GOD.   Not trying to be a smart alec, just throwing in thoughts as they come.  

tt

[Sealynx]

Bear,
Religion is a major issue with many mentally off people. Schizophrenics sometimes think God is talking to them. Its not much of a stretch to think an N would decide they can talk FOR God.

The main thing to remember is that no matter what she preaches to you, you are just an audience member who better be appreciative or else!! There is no more salvation being offered here than there was in any of her other demanding scenarios. Whether its her version of God who won't love you, her version of the neighbors who will talk, her version of your husband who will leave you or her version of your kid supposedly being damaged by you...its all the same N game....and that is all about her. The words may change, the rules don't.

[Logy]

Bear,
Very painful to sit and watch your NM write those checks.  In my experience, organized religion (which has too many human elements) can be a source of N supply.  My NM has vascillated her entire life between being completely involved and then shunning the church, sometimes for decades.  Currently she is a deacon at their church.  And her only topic of conversation is how much she did for her "people" and nobody else will step up and do as much as she does.  This is the same church that 20 years ago she dropped out of because she didn't agree with the minister's choices in his own life.  Huh, sounds just like what she does to her own children. Idolizing and rejecting.

Her current dilemna is that her own children will not allow her to control their lives nor those of the grandchildren.  So how does she react?  By becoming a volunteer at the Wednesday night children group at her church.  All she talks about is what she does for those children, almost like we are supposed to feel jealous that she is with those children instead of us.  OMG, we are grateful that it keeps her from meddling in our lives.  But then she complains about how these children are just so needy.  A 5 year old child actually "expected me to serve them their food instead of getting up and getting it for themselves".

I believe that N's in the church are just as destructive as N's in the family, N's at work, N's in relationships.  We are just conditioned to believe that if church is involved, then N's are more moral than others and it is above criticism.  Indoctrination. 

[swimmer]

Bear-

No worries, you are not ranting.  It sounds like you are venting and seeking validation.

N's will use anything as a weapon, especially if it can be hidden in some way.  It sounds like your Mom is hiding behind God, and sometimes using him as a weapon.  I'm sort of jaded, but she has a whole slough of N feeders at church probably.... So this is maybe a bright side. 

Writing those checks in front of you was very rude and entirely intentional.  Can you even imagine treating a stranger like that?  So rude, and very alienating behavior.  If she was writing the checks to you, that would be the weapon instead of God.

I've been reading your posts for a while now, and how dare your mother come in your house and cause such drama in the midst of difficult times.  I can smell this over the Internet, same exact thing my mom pulled (I may have posted this before).

Lastly, even if her empty nest was so deep and painful.... Perhaps she might be challenged more with, what would Jesus do?  Certainly not what she does. 

[bearwithme]

Swimmer, I do remember your posts of your NM and the similarites to boot.  Also, I am seeking validation. Validation, validation, validation.  There I said it.  Thank you Swimmer for mentioning such a simple thing that perhaps we all are trying to acheive in one form or another.

I need validation! How pathetic am I?  But you know what, it feels good to admit this because in truth, all my rants, all my posts all my answers and all my intentions here wind up in my lap to serve MY own purpose: Validation.  (I'm talking in the extreme cases here because I love giving the feedback as well as receiving it).  I'm not ashamed of this anymore and I will seek it out until the N gasoline burns off my skin-the gasoline she doused me with and stood over me with a lit match.  Self esteem to burn down to nothingness along with everything else.

Logy wrote:

All she talks about is what she does for those children, almost like we are supposed to feel jealous that she is with those children instead of us.  OMG, we are grateful that it keeps her from meddling in our lives.  But then she complains about how these children are just so needy.  A 5 year old child actually "expected me to serve them their food instead of getting up and getting it for themselves".

Sheeesh! This is my NM to the hilt.  I truly believe they try to make us jealous somehow, it's very, very bizarre and totally invasive.

Sealynx: "Religion is a major issue with mentally off people....."  I'm glad you said what I was afraid to say.  This needs to paid attention to but soooo many people will not go there.  It seems everyone is afraid to talk about this because it involves beliefs, etc.  But there has to be a way to address the extremeness, of sorts, and at least understand it or reach out to people who see the same as us

[bearwithme]

My post posted without me hitting "Post."  Weird.

Anyway, I like what you said TT about how narcissism hasn't necessarily "left NM" and that she is turning to God because he has more patience and understanding, etc.

BTW, NM sent me a card in the mail like she mentioned she would on my husbands voice mail (she said she would send me a letter, yeah, right).  Well, on the front of the card it said something like,  "Apache Blessings...."May the rivers cleanse you....may the rain wash you and clean you...may you find your dreams in your soul....may you be at peace...may you find yourself....."

On the inside of the card it was blank but she had handwritten her message:

Bear, may the Lord always be with you,  Love Mom.

Hmm, nothing about what happend, nothing about "hey, let's talk" nothing about "I'm sorry your angry with me" nothing about "I respect you and I will try to make it better..."  She just said that one and only thing.

I ripped the card in 100 pieces and threw it away, I was mad all over again.

***sigh*** will this shit ever end???

Bear.

[Hopalong]

She has drunk the holy Kool Aid and it is not good for her brain.

Christ had such a simple message: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
The Golden Rule.

I have kept that in my heart. But much of the rest of the book it's printed in has harmed me more than helped.

And that's okay too. I love and admire many Christians I know who are radiantly kind, wonderful people.

I don't hate religion. I hate the way it is so distorted and convoluted when I think simpler is better.

I'm sorry your Mom's so mentally ill but sorrier for you, that you still yearn...

I understand it Bear. I know how painful it is. But that leash will stretch and lengthen and loosen and one day just slip off your neck. You will feel so much better when you succeed in letting go of the hope that she can change. Just recognize you're grasping that in your fists, breathe in deeply and breathe out slowly, and turn over your clenched fists upward as you release them, while opening your palms upward....each time that hope rises, do that physically, let it go.

I think a personal physical ritual like this, about releasing it, letting it go...might really help you.

Count some baby toes.

love to you,
Hops

[bearwithme]

Hops:   

[Sealynx]

Bear,
Two can play the God game since he hasn't showed up to take a side in quite some time. Everytime she tries to push the religion button, just start every sentence with, "I prayed really hard about that and God told me .....(fille in the blank in support of yourself). I personally think that God likes you best and would gladly take your side in most arguments against someone who is using him to harm you.