Major N in My Life Died

[SallyingForth]

Earlier this month the major N in my life, my mother, died. It's been a relief. I feel more freedom to write now. For about three months prior to her death, I talked about her as if she had already died. It was odd. I'd catch myself afterward and wonder why I spoke about her in the past tense.

My mother was a N and had OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder) - see ptypes.com to understand this condition more. Those two personality disorders together made my mother a monster to me at times. She was not your typical mother, nurturing and loving and encouraging. Rather she believed whatever I did was in competition to her. She was the fairest of them all and could do no wrong and had to be perfect.

One positive love she gave to me is the love of words. She and I used to play word games when I was a child. I loved playing those games with her. However, it wasn't until I started to play those same word games as an adult that I learned she failed to help me win those games. Of course, she had to follow through with her goals to be the winner and look the smartest and be perfect. As always, my memories of our relationship echo themes of emotional dichotomies. Still, I love words and am glad I learned this from her.

I've read about the two different types of relationships one can have with their mother; buddy/daughter or distant/daughter. We had neither and I know that is because my mother had too many emotional problems. We never had an adult relationship mostly because my therapist told me it wouldn't be a healthy one as my mother refused to go to therapy. I remember her being proud to decline therapy with a psychiatrist when he asked her about her childhood. It was as if she won a huge victory. She probably did. One less person delving into her private life. Several times my mother would say to me on the phone, "I can't figure out why I can have wonderful relationships with my DILs but not with my own daughter." Gee now, I wonder why. Well, if she had abused them like she abused me I doubt that those relationships would be wonderful as well. That reality never emerged in the conversation. Amazing how these N/OCPDers can maintain such incredible denial about their behavior and the affects of their PDs on others.

[JustKathy]

Hi Sallying,

I'm glad to see that smiley next to your subject header. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. I feel a connection to it, I guess.

My N mother is going to die soon (I think). I was told over a year ago that she had terminal cancer with only one month to live, but she's still kicking. There has been some discussion at home, and on this board, as to whether or not she might be faking it for attention. I've concluded that she does have cancer, but has a better prognosis than what I was told. It might have been two years to live, not a month. In any case, I'll find out in due time.

The reason I say that I like the happy face is that I, too, felt this overwhelming sense of relief when I was told she was terminal. At first I hated myself for feeling that. But after talking to other children of Ns, I've found that relief is what most of us feel. It's sad, but yet, how can we feel anything else? Interestingly, I also sometimes talk about NM as if she has already died. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really relate to the emotions that you're feeling. Thank you for sharing this.

[sKePTiKal]

For 40 years, my mom has been talking about "when I die" to me - almost holding it over me like a promise/threat...
like she will still be able to control how I feel from where-ever broken people go when they die, you know? (She believes she can still do this with me... even though on my side of the equation, many many things have changed and I only feel my own real feelings - not her projections - now.)

But, for those of us with moms "like this" - I think we have a big hole where our "mom-daughter relationship" is supposed to be and alive/dead... it's sad. Not our faults, minds you - but quite sad all the same. I had to grieve the hole, in order to finally feel whole... or at least mostly whole. Currently trying to figure out what kinds of things I think could've, should've, oughta be in place of the hole... and testing to see if I figured out a way (in 40 years) to get those things for myself - sometimes I don't recognize this (which is something that could've been in the hole); and to determine what else needs to be done - and what is optional.

Sally-ing... I'm sorry for your loss and I can relate to your relief, as well.

[Guest]

SF
Good. I hope she stays out of your head, or is benign there.

[Twoapenny]

Hi Sallying,

I think I wll feel a sense of relief when my parents go.  I've said this to other people and they've been horrified, but it is how I feel.  I saw my mum a couple of weeks ago.  She looked very old and frail.  I wonder what the last years of her life will be like for her and I don't feel that they will be joyful and comfortable.  I suspect she might be relieved when her time comes as well.

Thanks for sharing

Twoapenny

[JustKathy]

Twoapenny, I also wonder what the end will be like for them. With my NM, I think she'll die believing that she was perfect, and I was evil, and deserved the abuse I got. She's mentally ill, and isn't going to suddenly feel remorse. If anything, she's going to get a good death. Unlike an N who drops dead of a massive heart attack (their worst nightmare), an N with a prolonged illness has a sort of victory. If gives them time to manipulate people, play the drama for all it's worth. And in the end, my Co-Father will be at her side telling her that he can't go on without her. She'll die with a smile on her face.

But my Co-Father, that will be a different story. He's going to be alone, abandoned, because he threw his children under the bus for NM. I would have been there for him, but I made the decision to go NC this last year. Following my mother's diagnosis, he did some VERY hurtful things to me in order to make his dying Queen happy, and I finally woke up and saw him for what he really is. That leaves my brother, the GC, who was given millions of dollars in cars, a house, college education, you name it. He grew up a spoiled monster who no longer has the time for his own father unless there is money involved. He won't even take his calls. Now that he is secure in his position as sole heir, he's set, and just waiting to collect. So my F continues to call me, wanting to make small talk. Sorry, but it's over. How can I ever look him in the eyes again, knowing that he disinherited me to make NM happy.

Which leaves me wondering what the end is like for the co-spouse. In the case of an N, they're mentally ill, and not capable of feeling remorse at the end. As Sallying said, they maintain incredible denial about their behavior, and they probably take that to the grave. Is co-dependency also a mental illness, or will my father have time to reflect and realize that he did some very bad things to his daughter. I think I'll have mixed feelings when F dies. With NM, I KNOW it will be complete and total relief, but I just don't know about co-F. I guess I need to research it more, and try understand the whole CO thing. He doesn't seem to understand or "get" that he did bad things to me. Is it all an act, or is he just THAT brainwashed?

Sallying, I'm not trying to pry, but wonder if your NM die before your father. The connection between an NM and her Co-spouse is so deep, I wonder how the order of death affects them. My therapist told me that Co-Husbands often die a "sympathetic death" right after the NM dies. I have a feeling that will happen to my own father.

Sorry to be veering off on a tangent, but these random thoughts just started coming out of me, so what the heck, write it down.

Kathy

[sfalken]

Well first, it is in some sense difficult whenever a family member dies. In this sense however, I can imagine that the number of years or time between communication will have an effect on how much difficulty, and it likely feels like the end of a long, hard journey. Emotional release.

I wonder as well. My mother is N, father was Co.  - but over the years, he has morphed into the same patterns as she, sold me and my family out, and is in many ways 'worse' as an N than she, today. She the victim N, he the grandiose N. I've begun to accept that neither will ever change, however I do wonder how it will affect one or the other when one dies. I wonder how it will be for me at the end of that road. Will I have a sense of relief, or will I be distraught more than I think I will.

My mother at one point cascaded her lies through her network of drones to let me know that she had "cancer", but as it turns out, it was not true. A doctor said there was a possibility, not a certainty. I imagine that this behavior will increase as she gets older, and I will tire even more of it over time.

I congratulate you for making it to this juncture, and I encourage you not to look back, - make this a new beginning. Never let it happen again. I also offer condolences.

[JustKathy]

father was Co.  - but over the years, he has morphed into the same patterns as she, sold me and my family out, and is in many ways 'worse' as an N than she, today.

Whoaaaaa . . . reading this was a huge WOW moment for me. I'm experiencing this exact thing right now. In the last two years, I have watched my father become WORSE than NM. Why is this? Is he becoming more protective of her as she ages and battles "cancer." (That being in quotes because I still don't know if it's true or not). When I was a child, he would hurt me at her command, but it was small stuff, a dig here, a dig there. Now he's just plain brutal, to the point where I've gone NC.

Has this happened to other people as their N mothers have aged and/or died? I'm thinking it must somehow be age or health related. Thanks for posting this, sfalken. It's ALWAYS validating to hear that someone else has had the same experience.

[sKePTiKal]

How's this for an idea, Kathy? Maybe it'll fit...

The co-N or co-dependent partner has made the N the sum total of the co's existence. The threat of losing the N - whether real or not - equals total destruction of themselves, at the same time. Real or not, because it will be experienced as real... because they no longer have their own self.

[Overcomer]

My question is, "Do you feel better?"  I sometimes wonder if I will be relieved when my nmom goes?  I will probably never find out because I have cancer and will probably die before her.

It makes me sick to watch her work.  To realize that not only is she a raging N, but she is also getting forgetful!

[JustKathy]

The threat of losing the N - whether real or not - equals total destruction of themselves

Phoenix, that makes pretty good sense to me. My parents have been married for over 50 years, so co-F lost his identity a very long time ago. He's been her third arm since 1959, but never his own person. When he found out that NM was going to die, he started making plans for his own death, burial arrangements etc., and said that he knew he would die as soon as she did. It's almost like a parasite losing its host. One has total dependency on the other, and cannot function independently. If the parasite doesn't find a new host, it too dies.

Kelly, when I found out that my mother had cancer (at the time had been told she had a month to live), I went to my therapist with mixed feelings. I was secretly delighted, and asked her if I was a bad person for feeling like i was about to be set free. She told me that she has many patients with N parents, and they ALL felt relief when the parent died.

[SallyingForth]

The reason I say that I like the happy face is that I, too, felt this overwhelming sense of relief when I was told she was terminal. At first I hated myself for feeling that. But after talking to other children of Ns, I've found that relief is what most of us feel. It's sad, but yet, how can we feel anything else? Interestingly, I also sometimes talk about NM as if she has already died. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really relate to the emotions that you're feeling. Thank you for sharing this.

My NMother thought she'd go twice before, once for a major surgery, and the other due to cancer. She survived both. Before the surgery she wrote everyone a special letter. Oh my! This time no letters. No notification about her not feeling well. Of course, that's par for the course in my FOO. No communication.

I felt relief when I heard she thought she'd die. The saga would finally end.

I'll never forget what a therapist once told me. Treat your family as if they are insane.    They are!

[SallyingForth]

But, for those of us with moms "like this" - I think we have a big hole where our "mom-daughter relationship" is supposed to be and alive/dead... it's sad. Not our faults, minds you - but quite sad all the same. I had to grieve the hole, in order to finally feel whole... or at least mostly whole. Currently trying to figure out what kinds of things I think could've, should've, oughta be in place of the hole... and testing to see if I figured out a way (in 40 years) to get those things for myself - sometimes I don't recognize this (which is something that could've been in the hole); and to determine what else needs to be done - and what is optional.

Sally-ing... I'm sorry for your loss and I can relate to your relief, as well.

God gave me a different plan for healing the "mom-daughter hole" in my heart. He brought a wonderful friend into my life four years ago. We mother each other - encourage, support, stand behind, share, etc. There's no competition. She has the same hole for the same reason.  Together we are changing each others' lives.

[SallyingForth]

SF
Good. I hope she stays out of your head, or is benign there.

Interesting that you mention that. A couple of days after she died I finally understood several thoughts I used to mull around in my head didn't even belong to me. I was able to just let them go.

And the other day I was laughing about something I said out loud while experimenting with recipes. Experimenting with recipes was something my mother would've never tried. Everything had to be perfect and only one cookbook would do. NM always wanted to be a doctor. The only doctor which would fit her is an anal doctor or proctologist because she had to be so perfect. Okay my bad joke but I laughed for about ten minutes, imagining her being a proctologist.     

[SallyingForth]

Twoapenny, I also wonder what the end will be like for them. With my NM, I think she'll die believing that she was perfect, and I was evil, and deserved the abuse I got. She's mentally ill, and isn't going to suddenly feel remorse. If anything, she's going to get a good death. Unlike an N who drops dead of a massive heart attack (their worst nightmare), an N with a prolonged illness has a sort of victory. If gives them time to manipulate people, play the drama for all it's worth. And in the end, my Co-Father will be at her side telling her that he can't go on without her. She'll die with a smile on her face.

Interesting. My NM did die of a massive heart attack. She had two. I think she thought I'd call after her first one. Nope.

Which leaves me wondering what the end is like for the co-spouse. In the case of an N, they're mentally ill, and not capable of feeling remorse at the end. As Sallying said, they maintain incredible denial about their behavior, and they probably take that to the grave. Is co-dependency also a mental illness, or will my father have time to reflect and realize that he did some very bad things to his daughter. I think I'll have mixed feelings when F dies. With NM, I KNOW it will be complete and total relief, but I just don't know about co-F. I guess I need to research it more, and try understand the whole CO thing. He doesn't seem to understand or "get" that he did bad things to me. Is it all an act, or is he just THAT brainwashed?

Sallying, I'm not trying to pry, but wonder if your NM die before your father. The connection between an NM and her Co-spouse is so deep, I wonder how the order of death affects them. My therapist told me that Co-Husbands often die a "sympathetic death" right after the NM dies. I have a feeling that will happen to my own father.

Sorry to be veering off on a tangent, but these random thoughts just started coming out of me, so what the heck, write it down.

Kathy

My step-dad is OCPD (mentally ill of course) and quite controlling. It's quite unusual for two OCPDers to marry each other and get along. They really never "got along" rather they decided who was lord ruler over the roost — my step-dad — and that was determined through abuse at the beginning of their relationship.