Is there a difference between being a narcissist and having NPD?

[JustKathy]

I hope this makes sense. I'm trying to sort through a lot of feelings about things I hear in the media that are just making me really really angry.

In the last year or so, I've noticed the word "narcissist" being thrown around the in the media as if the condition is as commonplace (and sometimes as benign) as a head cold. It seems to be the latest trendy buzz word used in celebrity bashing, second only to Botox. Just in the last few weeks, I've heard Paris Hilton is a narcissist, Linsday Lohan is a narcissist, Charlie Sheen is a narcissist, Snooki is a narcissist. It goes on and on. A few days ago I was watching Kelsey Grammer's bitter ex-wife on a talk show, and one of the first things out of her mouth was, "Well, he was very difficult to live with because he was such a narcissist." The WORST was a few months ago on Joy Behar's show. The guest was the woman who hosts the Millionaire Matchmaker reality show, and in talking about one of the bachelors, she said he had NPD, "Narcissistic Perfectionist Disorder." What? Is there even such a thing?

Anyway, this is making things really hard on me, because every time I tell someone that my mother has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, the general reaction is that oh, my mother is a spoiled brat, like Lindsay Lohan. How could that possibly have hurt me?

Last Christmas, I finally came clean with my closest cousin, and told him that I had gone NC with my mother because she had abused me. I had his sympathy, until I mentioned Narcissistic Perfectionist Disorder. That was when he said, "Well, your mother has always been pretty demanding of attention, but is that any reason to cut ties with her?"

So I guess I'm wondering two things.

1. Is there such a thing as "just being a narcissist?" Meaning being full of yourself, having a sense of entitlement, being a spoiled brat. OR . . .

2. Are these members of the media completely misinformed and have no idea what a narcissist really is?

This is very distressing to me, because when I finally do confide in someone, they think Mom was just a little eccentric and that I'm overreacting. No one equates narcissism with abusive behaviour of any kind. How do I tell people (outsiders, not Ts or fellow N victims) that there's a huge difference between young bratty celebrities, and the mentally ill world of a child abusing woman with NPD?

Kathy

[JustKathy]

Thanks CB. I don't often tell people what is wrong with my mother, but I've found that even "personality disorder" can often sound benign, as in "How bad could that be? You couldn't just deal with it?" When I told my dentist, I had to use the words "mentally ill." He's known NM for 30 years and always seemed to sense that she wasn't right, so mentally ill cemented it, and he got it.

But for people who are just friends, it's seems impossible to make anyone understand why or how you could cut yourself off from your mother. Society just won't accept it. Look at how Angelina Jolie has been vilified for ceasing contact with her father. No one ever gives her the benefit of a doubt. It's always, "Wow, what a heartless thing to do to her own father."

Sometimes I wish my mother had some other disorder. I don't know what, schizophrenia, or something a little more clinical sounding. I just hate the way the word narcissist is being tossed around like it's a bad hair cut or something. It's almost become trendy to say it. Maybe if it's just a trend, it won't last, and the media will move on to some new word to describe celebrity brats. Sigh . . .

[bearwithme]

JK:  I totally agree with your frustration with the misuse of the term.  I liken it to the term "racist."  It is so misused and overused these days, it's really pathetic.  I hate it in fact.  It goes back to being over politically correct.  I got in trouble for saying during a conversation about gang infested areas of a neighborhood near where I lived, I said: "the ghetto is a dangerous place to be at night..."  I was called a racist quite quickly and everyone stared at me; I was so heartbroken by their comment that I decided to wage a campaign against the person(s) that misuse the term and all it's literal meaning, etc.  An observation can not be "racism" and the resulting reaction to the observation is also not racism.  It is the belief that one ENTIRE race or people, or another, or many people(s) is inferior to another, or different race.  The fact that a neighborhood is crime ridden and I fear that particular area is not "racism" nor does it make me a "racist."  People in the media throw around the word "racist" like it's the lawful comeback to anything said about any fact or experience regardless if it includes ANY person's race or where their roots originate.  Stereotyping is another chapter in another book which explain the reasons behind stereotyping and why our brains are wired to stereotype in general - all for survival reasons, not because we are mean spirited or because we "hate" or believe someone is "less" than us or another person.  I think that way of thinking is accusatory, self-righteous and naive.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread.   People frustrate me with throwing these terms around.  If people would just learn the proper meaning of "Narcissist" or "Racist" perhaps they wouldn't attach it to any Tom, Dick & Harry that shows up in life. 

I believe that people do not understand the magnitude of the words they use.  They just say it to be cool or sound intelligent or to beat someone down.  They haven't the slightest clue as to the "actual" meaning/definition of the word.  They are stupid for saying it.  Period.

Thanks for letting me rant.

Bear

[Guest]

Bear
I'm smiling. I might not agree with everything you've said but the majority, spot on. Nice!

[mudpuppy]

she said he had NPD, "Narcissistic Perfectionist Disorder." What? Is there even such a thing?

I hate to disagree with the smart and sagacious CB 123 but there is indeed something called Narcissistic Perfectionist Disorder.
It is always comorbid with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and consists of the single clinically disgusting trait (that's technical medical jargon) of demanding perfection in everyone else on the planet but excusing, ignoring or otherwise not acknowedging the most egregious and despicable faults in themselves.

mud

[lighter]

she said he had NPD, "Narcissistic Perfectionist Disorder." What? Is there even such a thing?

..........and consists of the single clinically disgusting trait..........

mud

I do love it when you talk clinical medical jargon, Mud; )

Lighter

[CB123]

Well, I'll take your word for it, Mud....but I couldnt find anything on it.  I thought it was just sloppy labeling.  Yeah...narcissism seems to come with perfectionism....one of the reasons I think they are so delusional about who they are is because they cant face the shame of not being perfect.  Somewhere they got the idea that "normal" is "perfect", so "imperfect" is "less than normal".  Too shameful to contemplate.

I think that narcissist and NPD are thrown around interchangeably... I dont know if they should be or not.  But I do know that there are a lot of people that get narcissistic that arent personality disordered.  Even those of us who do the amount of navel gazing we do, do it because we think we are important enough to have our navel gazed at.  Somewhat narcissistic..and definitely only available to those of us with a lot of time on our hands.   

CB

[JustKathy]

I hate to disagree with the smart and sagacious CB 123 but there is indeed something called Narcissistic Perfectionist Disorder.

No kidding? I assumed that this was just a misuse of the term, because the person who said it was incredibly stupid ( a dating reality show host), and was spouting all kinds of nonsense, so I didn't give it any credence.

I think that narcissist and NPD are thrown around interchangeably... I dont know if they should be or not.

It definitely hurts those of us who are victims of NPD. With the media using both terms so casually, I doubt that the average viewer understands that someone with NPD has a true mental illness, and is terribly abusive to their children and/or spouse. I constantly hear Paris Hilton referred to as a narcissist because she's a spoiled rich kid who is enamored with herself. But I doubt she's ever tormented a child. These days, I just tell people that I've cut contact with my mother because she's mentally ill. The words "mentally ill" sound serious to most people, where "narcissist" is shrugged off as a joke.

[mudpuppy]

Guys, I was just being a smart arse, as usual.
It was just a mislabeling but it sure is an apt description for the perfection these chucklehead Ns demand in others but never in themselves.

mud

[JustKathy]

Guys, I was just being a smart arse, as usual.

Heh heh! You had me going. I guess I have SDD (Sarcasm Deficiency Disorder).

[sKePTiKal]

Hey Kath,

I know that urge to want to be able communicate so that others will understand. What works for me - and what most people can grasp and is about all they really need to know to "get it" - is to tell them that my mom was emotionally abusive.

This phrase communicates what I need it to - that my relationship with my mother sucks and I prefer to keep my distance and that I could go into all the gory details, but it's all rather personal. The word "abusive" usually stops all the attempts to "blame the victim" or discount my feelings about what I went through and completely separates stories like ours from just garden-variety stuckup snobs, spoiled brats, and attention-seekers.

And the phrase is vague enough - broad enough - to cover NPD, Borderline Personality Disorder, Socio/Psychopaths, plain ignorance (which can be bad in it's own way), extreme depression.... all those variations on a wicked theme that can make a child's life pure hell.

[JustKathy]

Often I'll tell people who aren't all that close to me that I'm estranged from my parents because they abused me - no other word - just abuse. That will usually shut it down. I have had people snicker at the term "emotional abuse." Very sad, but I don't think emotional abuse is taken seriously by people, or at least not as seriously as it should be. I think the general public pictures two very distinct things: emotional abuse means that you were picked on, physical abuse means you were beaten or molested. I'm not sure that emotional abuse will ever be taken as seriously as physical abuse, and not just by the general public, but by therapists, social workers, etc. A child who has bruises on their body will be removed from a home by Social Services, but will they do ANYTHING about emotional abuse? I'm not sure that they would.

My NM did abuse me physically as well as emotionally. The majority of it was emotional, but there was physical abuse in the form of neglect, mostly when I was in high school. There were several occasions when I was denied medical care as a punishment. My chronic tonsillitis was never treated because it was my punishment for "kissing boys." I also had chronic bronchitis, which went untreated because it was my punishment for smoking cigarettes (to this day, I've never touched a cigarette). When I was very young, she would have my father spank me for things I didn't do. She'd make up a story, and tell him to punish me for it. I realize that back in the 60s spanking was the norm, but I still consider it abuse. When it sticks with you forty years later, it's abuse.

I'm rambling, but I guess given the circumstances (and peoples' attitudes) leaving the word "emotional" out of it works best for me. I've gotten a lot of eye rolls over the word "emotional," like I'm just overreacting. People really have no idea how incredibly damaging emotional abuse can be. Given the choice, I would have rather been physically beaten than emotionally tormented. At least it would have stopped at 18 when I moved out. Emotional abuse stays with you for your entire life, until the abuser finally dies. There's nothing you can do to escape it. Even going NC doesn't stop it.

[sKePTiKal]

OK, I get that. But I've not experienced the eye-rolling reaction from people - in fact, given a couple of the less complicated examples I have, people seem to immediately understand. And then, tell me their own stories! Whether a boss, an ex-husband or boyfriend... it is so prevalent, that people seem to instinctively understand. Then again, I don't introduce myself to people as "I was emotionally abused", either! LOL! The people I've told are very close trusted friends.

Emotional abuse stays with you for your entire life, until the abuser finally dies. There's nothing you can do to escape it. Even going NC doesn't stop it.

I don't entirely agree with this statement, as it stands. For me, making the shift from being focussed on the evils perpetrated against me... to trying to figure what I needed - then & now - and trying to find ways to meet those needs; helped me get more out from under the effects of the abuse, than I would've thought possible at one time. It was a long slow gradual process, though. And I'm still working on it, too. I can still be blindsided - but I bounce back quicker now.

There is hope for escape, in other words.

[JustKathy]

I guess what I'm saying is that they won't let you escape without a fight. Yes, you CAN escape it, but they won't roll over and play dead, and simply allow you to walk away. I've been NC for seven years, which HAS worked out well for me, but the more I ignore her, the more NM turns up the heat . . . letters, emails, going after my husband, having Co-F go after my husband. Even though I can and do choose to ignore it, their attempts at pushing my buttons will not stop until they're dead. Until that time, the letters will keep coming. I can choose to not open them, but I can't stop them from being sent.

[Hopalong]

Hi Kathy,

There's one more small step you might begin to take.

Every time an unwanted letter comes, write on the envelope: Refused.

And put it back in the post.

It may take some repetitions, but if it's clear to the sender that it's a complete waste of time because they can't even fantasize that you're opening the envelope, that might be progress...

Hops