Advice again, please, friends.

[lighter]

Sounds like a good time to start journaling, Lupe.

You don't have to relieve the anxiety.

It's telling you something.

Listen.

Lighter

[Lupita]

I have the feeling that he wanted to ruin my vacation. he sabotages me. Just like my mother did.

Why would he want to brin everybody to his house when we met thanks to being alone during this time?

Just to ruin my vacation or because he sees that kind of love that there is between me and my son and he wants to recreate it for him too. But he cant. He did not sacrifice like i did and his children do not appreciate him like mine does to me.

He ruined my vacation. if he does not want me to go, why would he want to ruin me? why?

Now he wants to do it for Christmas too. And ruin Christmas too. he tells everything about me to his ex. He cant give one step without asking to his ex. I am very disappointed. He is stupid. Or he just does nto want to love me. He is fighting the love he feels for me. He wants to destroy us.

[sKePTiKal]

Lupita,

I can tell you have a lot of practice detecting "ulterior motives" behind what people say and do. You "know" these things through your intuition... and then you feel things - sometimes anger; sometimes anxiety - and then you say & do things... and before you know it the worst case scenario that you feared becomes real.

I also hear that you might already know this about yourself and you are asking us to validate something for you. Because you're not totally convinced you're right about the intuition - or even the real things in front of your eyes. I'm sending you a big huge cyber hug and telling you that it's OK. However it turns out - whatever you decide - whatever is the reality of M's feelings. OK?

The thing is, that only M can validate your questions for you. And you will need to ask him, and tell him how you feel and what you want - like spending Thanksgiving alone with him. Guys honestly don't remember "anniversaries" or feel the same importance about commemorating them as us ladies do. So, it's a bit off the mark, to let this grow into a feeling that he doesn't care about you or that you are not important to him. And he sure wouldn't understand you being angry about this! (even though you might very well be angry and hurt). Not unless you tell him.

I do sympathize with you, over how scary it could be to have that conversation with him. We are conditioned to expect the worst because of the past; because of how the parents treated us. It's very, very important to remember that M is not your Nmom; and he is different than she is, so you aren't as accurate at predicting how he will react. You won't be risking the whole relationship, I don't believe, just by telling him that you had hoped to spend Thanksgiving alone with him and then asking him to do that instead of what he has planned. It opens a negotiation and allows for a compromise, you know? And it sets a precedent in your relationship too; Lupita gets what she wants sometimes and M gets what he wants sometimes.

What about this scenario? You spend part of the day with your son - and M spends part of the day with his ex & kids - and then the two of your spend the evening together - alone. And be thankful for each other.

Ya know - hubby and I are the third spouse for each other. We both brought "baggage" to the relationship. Mine was the abuse in my history and emotional issues... and his a combination of financial/relationship issues. We both have kids. We have had to cut each other a lot of slack over the years - and give up a lot of expectations and preconceived notions about what our relationship "looked like" and was in reality. And it still works... because we accept each other the way we are; we accept the baggage too... and we talk and connect to each other in spite of it all. I don't need candlelight and dancing and being swept off my feet to know that he's there when I need him, that I can count on him to "have my back", and that he's fun and comfortable to be with. We don't even match up or fit into traditional male/female roles perfectly. I'm the "business brain" of the family and he's the shopaholic who comes up with incredible bargains. We both cook and I'm slowly teaching him that he does know how to clean, too!  But he is the social one, the party planner, the fun master.

None of the traditional roles or romantic rules matter to either one of us. And it so much easier this way!

[lighter]

Lupe:

I have a SIL who's divorced parents come together every year to have Christmas with her and her children.

They don't argue, create trouble or otherwise dread the event. 

They step up, remain civil and focus on the Grandkids.  One's a teen and the other is grown by  now.

It doesn't have to be a dreadful event when divorced parents come together to share holidays for their children's sake.

Lupe, if you think you draw personality disordered people to you like a beacon, sending signals that call them (at one point you said this)..... then consider that you might be dealing with that now.

Accept that there may be conditions you can't change or live with in this relationship, then have the discussion PR talked about.

Ask M exactly what he means when he says whatever it is he's saying.

Appreciate his honestly, even if it's not what you want to hear, and try to remain level headed when you respond.

It's your job to protect and care for yourself. 

It's not this man's job.  He's not your husband, and your expectations of him should remain realistic.

If this relationship is strong enough, you can discuss issues, both compromise and work things out.

If he's not telling you what you want to hear, and you're in denial or expecting to change him.......

it might be time to consider changing your expectations, no matter what you do with the man.

Access.

Accept.

Act.

The 3 A's of proactive living.

You're a smart woman, Lupe.

You can figure this out.

Lighter

[Lupita]

“I also hear that you might already know this about yourself and you are asking us to validate something for you. Because you're not totally convinced you're right about the intuition - or even the real things in front of your eyes. I'm sending you a big huge cyber hug and telling you that it's OK. However it turns out - whatever you decide - whatever is the reality of M's feelings. OK?”

Why do I always need validation? I never believe my guts. I don’t trust my slef.

“Appreciate his honestly, even if it's not what you want to hear, and try to remain level headed when you respond.

He never tells me what he is thinking. Never. That is why I read his e-mail, there is where I find out what he wants to do.”

“He taught me that people can love you and say really, really stupid things.  N's do it over and over and they never change.  Non N's do it too--with time, they can change.  You cant tell an if a person is an N or a non N based on whether or not they say stupid things....or do stupid things.  Sometimes I would be panic stricken--OMG he's an N!  Just like my ex! OMG!  Panic!  No.  He was being selfish.  Thoughtless.  Speaking without thinking.  That is not an N.  N's are pathological.  N's are bigger than just normal run of the mill annoying people.  We shouldnt trivialize narcissism by thinking that there's one behind every bush.”

Well, he sure displays N traits all over the place, but he is not malignant. He constantly makes me look bad. He makes me feel bad. But he is not malignant. He always apologizes and tries to make it better. I think he loves me and does not know what to do between his spoiled brat kids and me.

I feel so so so so lonely. I do not belong anywhere. I started to have problems at work suddenly after three years working for them just because the assistant principal find error in everything I do. It is like I will never find a niche in where I am welcome. I left my church because I started feeling bad there. They liked me when I had the energy, but now I am tired and they do not like me anymore because they pay me 35 dollars for a work that deserves 200 and now That I do not devote my entire week to them they donot like me anymore so I left.

I don’t belong, I have nothing. I am tired of looking, searching, I always endo with nothing.

[Lupita]

CB

yesterday Sunday, I went to school for two hours, then went to the mall for four additional hours, and cmae to his house around 6 or 7 pm. He was alone watching tv and he was mad at me.

Today Monday I am going to school again, to sgin some papers, then go to therapist that I have not seen in severla monsths, and then will stay in my house fro several hours. Will go to the jacuzzi, rest and come back to his house at night. let us see how he behaves tonight.

[sKePTiKal]

Lup, hon -

you NEED validation just like I do - all us humans all do; even M. Trusting ourselves is something that we learn to do - either as kids with parents that help us learn this... or if the parents sabotage that instead, later when we are trying to heal.

Take a big deep breath - or 50 of them! Relax a minute or 50. Just don't even think about this sometimes, OK? You are allowed to take a time out from this.

With problems that are big, or feel big... it helps to go slow, take our time, deal with only one piece of it at a time and not demand of ourselves that we swallow the whole elephant - solve it all at one time - or else condemn ourselves as totally messed up, because we don't or can't. Both of those are how we were sabotaged by abusive parents and we've learned to do that all by ourselves. We can unlearn that - replace the old habit with new ones.

You're not alone if Lighter, CB & I are talking to you, right? You asked for and we offered advice. And we're still here and not goin' anywhere!

Take 2 minutes, right now - and imagine a great big group hug that we're sending you. We don't think there's anything "wrong" with you. We've all be in relationships and made decisions - some the same; some different - that felt just as monumental as yours does. We know it's agonizing, frightening and confusing. That jacuzzi sounds mighty good to me, right now... I hope you enjoy it!

[Hopalong]

Holidays are a gauntlet for new relationships, in my experience...
They become "tests" and add stress.

I hope you find a way to talk to him where no one is getting
punished and no one is feeling criticized...

Something spacious enough for both of you. Safe enough for each of you.

I hope it will be peaceful and warm, Lupe.

love,
Hops

[lighter]

You aren't alone, Lupe.

You yourself.....

and us

Your son will always be a fixture in your life.

He's not going anywhere.

Feeling upside down and lost doesn't mean you'r all alone.

When I feel that way, I take an honest look around and admit that there are people I can reach out to.

Just like we reach out here.... or go see T's.

Journling is a great idea when things are SO overwhelming and painful.

Lots to learn about ourselves when we go back and read our most painful thoughts.

(((Lupe)))

Remember to put a hand on your chest and one on your belly button when anxiety threatens to overtake you.

Concentrate on breathing so the hand over your bellybutton moves up and down.

Really focus on making just that hand move with your breath...... it will help you calm down and center yourself.

As always, you'll survive this..... you'll become stronger for it.

I really wish you'd been keeping a journal so you could see just how far you've come, and be reminded of the lessons you've already learned.

Maybe going back and reading your posts, from the beginning, would bring some perspective?

Lighter

 

[Lupita]

I came back to his house. I said I was tired of so much driving. He left with his son. That was 7 pm. Now is 10:19 and he is dounstaris watching tv with his son. If I go there an djoin them the son will leave. So, I wil stay here. So, all day yesterday and all day today was not enough. Tomorrow the ex is coming again. I told him that he has to stay upstairs with me and let her visit her son. He does not habet ohang aropund with the ex. If he does, it will be the last thing he does to me. I habve to promise my selg that I will not put up with this man anymore, For my own good, for my own sanity, if he goes to hang around that woman, hw will be dead meat in my life, I will levae forever. I will not dance with hime anymore, I will leave forever, I have to comply wirh my self. I have tio.

[Hopalong]

I'm so sorry, Lupita.

I know you feel so fragile around the area of other women.

I really am sorry that there isn't enough security there. I don't know the answer, save that the boundaries are so open and closed at the same time. It's really hard to figure out flexible, healthy boundaries, with our legacy. I really feel for you in this.

I do understand it some...I was very friendly with my ex, my D's father, and I was so grateful for it. It was a relief to me that we interacted so well after the divorce (probably because I carried a lot of guilt). But when he remarried, one day his new wife told me that our fondness for each other was distressing for her, and made it difficult for them to fully make their way.

She was telling me about a boundary (didn't even know what they were called then). But I sensed it was a fair and appropriate thing to point out. I changed my demeanor thenceforth around him--remained cordial-friendly, but not intimate-like-old-close-roommates friendly, and then things worked better.

(Well, in the long run, they were miserable and wound up divorcing, but it didn't have anything to do with me, thank heaven.)

The fact that people will make dramatic entrances and exits to show their boundaries is so sad. And, kind of like high school.

I wonder if your therapist can help? I think CB has, as always, told you some profoundly wise things to think about. For me, the very biggest thing she said was...TIME.

I don't think you're giving yourself enough time.

love,
Hops

[lighter]

I just hope you find some serenity in whatever you decide, Lupe.

I wish you could see M's choices as more a comptability issue, and not a personal attack against you.

Please enjoy time with your son.

Try not to obsess with M.

Look around you.

There are beautiful things everywhere.

I know I'll be picturing you spinning in a red dress over the holiday.

Don't forget to Dance, Lupe.

Lighter

[Lupita]

Hops, You said that CB meant time. I heard CB saying "remove my self from the situation and let him do whatever he wants to, and be away."Thst is what I uderstood from CB's opinion. CB is a much more mature woman than I do. And you are a much more mature woman that M's ex is. You reacted so nicely to your ex's new wife. This woman is here because she wants to create probles. Otherwise, she would not be here.

My therapist said that I should also remove my self from the situation, go away and let him do whatever he wants to. I don’t want to go because I want to see what is he going to do. I want to see how much power is he going to give his son and his temper tantrums. A son that is 28 years old and spoiled brat. I want to stay here and see how M is going to behave. If he stays here upstairs with me, doing his work in his office, instead of hanging around with that woman, I will be satisfied. If he decides to go out with them and leave me here, I will be very sad, and very mad.

He was upstairs from 1 to 1:25. Now he went downstairs. She is the  patio with one of the sons and he is somewhere else downstairs.

If he goes near her I will be very mad. God help me to put up with this. He came upstairs got the laundry and went back there. I do not know if they are together. I will have to get a glass of water to see what is going on.  

1:42, he came back upstairs. I need to know what his behavior is. He is taking a shower. This is the second shower he takes today. He must be very nervous too.

[Lupita]

1:51, he went back downstairs again. I wonder what they are doing there together. Why does he want to be around here?

As Lighter says, it is a compatibility issue, not am attack against me.

My T said that it is the son who came to visit that id potting them together, and giving me a hard time.

I have to see this later so I see what I suffer because fo this man.

[Lupita]

2:05, I could not resist and went downstairs. M is dusting and my picture with him is still on the table, of course many pictures of the ex wife too, but I thought that mine might go away. Ex wife and son J are gone to the beach. Let us see how long they stay out. She has to go home to her lover at some time. She cannot stay here all day. M and I are going dancing tonight. I just asked him at what time are we leaving and he said we are leaving at 6:30. He said that I should not create any more stress for him than what I am doing. He gets mad at me because I am upset because he chooses to keep the ex around.

He is going to give me a hard time at dance I think. I will let him dance with whom ever he wants to see if he comes down.
   
I am ready for whatever consequences come after this. M causes me too much stress. Some of it is my own fault, but he is very disrespectful according to my T and to my self too.

Four more hours to leave this house of horrors.