When narcissists are nice (random vent)

[nolongeraslave]

Is there a term for that? My mom was so sweet on the phone (or maybe it was just my perception). It sounded so real as if she has changed. Are narcissists that great of actors? Suddenly, my mind went "poof!" It's as if all of the bad things she has done was forgotten. I started to deny my reality and even think "Maybe she's not really a narcissist?"

In September, we had a huge fight. She made rude comments about the person I was dating, insulted my weight, and did things against my will that made me uncomfortable. She put an ad on a dating site behind my back, and gave out my number to random men on the internet.  

Tonight, she is saying "I'm happy you found this person you're dating. Hope it goes well. There's nothing wrong with you dating outside of your race. " HUH? Months ago, she was enraged that I was dating someone outside of my race.    She was trying to plant vicious thoughts about my boyfriend, such as him just using me for sex and "What makes you think he will stay with you? He's not serious."  NOW, she's saying how happy she is that I'm with this person. Is it a trick?

Next, she went on about how much she loved me, how she just doesn't want me to suffer like she did, and how she's not getting anything out of the stuff that she makes me do.  Her justification for the dating ad was "I wasn't getting anything out of it. It was for YOU. I was trying so hard to find you a good match, so you would be happy!" 


I know she can flip like a switch. This honeymoon phase may not last long. Ever since our fight in September, I've been keeping a distance. Maybe she's being nice to lure me back in?

I've been struggling with this off and on. I keep getting sucked in when the N mom is nice.   A part of me wants to think "Okay, so she's finally accepting my relationship."  You just never know.

As I'm writing this, it helps me realize a pattern. My mom has done this "nice" thing many times.   When I got off the phone with her, I just didn't know how to explain what just happened.  It is seriously some sort of mind fucking. My mind feels so blank after talking to her. I don't know how to explain what happened or how I feel.


It's annoying how she's so GOOD at manipulating. Anybody who would hear her on the phone would say "What a nice mom. See she's not so bad."

[Izzy_*now*]

If you feel like you are crazy, then your mom is doing all the crazy-making to control you and you can't think your way out of a paper bag.

If a known N is appearing nice then he/she is up to something! They are all actors.

Never forget the bad things from the past, as the N will do it all over again. None of them ever get better; they stay the same, use old tricks, new tricks---anything to keep you crazy and under his/her thumb/control.......well........ to keep themselves always in control over those they can control! The idea is to find a way to stop that control over you! Come up with some retorts for some of her sayings, responses to what she does etc., plan ahead, about how you can neutralize the N.

BLAM!

[sKePTiKal]

Hoo boy... I know how ya feel! The blank mind, as if you've been subjected to a brain eraser...

and you hit the nail on the head: this is a mind game. But you don't have to play - if it really doesn't matter to you, one way or another, that your mom approve of your choice of boyfriends; if you don't need her approval... then you can be polite, when she's in this nice mood (while staying at arm's length) and you can declare, mark, and defend your boundary (that she has no say whatsoever in people you find attractive and want to be friends with) when she flips back into crazy-lady mood.

Consider her a snake-oil salesman. Remember she has to PROVE herself, by walking the walk of what she talks. Not just one time... continuously. But, like Izzy... I tend to think she can't/won't do that.

[CB123]

...and then there is the possibility that she's NOT a narcissist.  Everyone who is dangerous to your emotional health is not an N.  She could be a control freak (sounds like it).

Narcissists can be very very nice....charming as a matter of fact.  But they tend to charm in the sense that they make you feel like a million bucks.  They compliment who you are as a person because that will get them what they want.  They attract people who are desperate to have that kind of approval and who dont have the early warning system that we have developed.

People who are afraid of loss of control are like your mom.  Oh no! she thinks.  What if my daughter doesnt find a guy (or finds the WRONG guy)?  There is no one who will save her from this if I dont.  There is nothing that is wrong to do, if it means she can regain control of the situation, or of you.  She really doesnt think it is wrong to put your name on a dating service because she is doing it for you.  She has no understanding of personal boundaries, esp. with you because she hasnt separated from you.  And she thinks that life will be too scarey if she is not in control.

You're right, this is temporary.  She may have seen you with your BF enough to where she isnt afraid any more.  Fear makes her have to control, so having that fear eased will make her less controlling.  BUT...the fear will always come back and she will always see her control as being the solution.

You dont have to doubt your memories or your perceptions.  Maybe your definition of what's wrong with her can be revised....but what is wrong with her is still unacceptable.

CB

[lighter]

This is how I view N kindness.

Having a smiling face, talking talking talking.....

while inserting a long busy blade (figurative) under your rib cage.

Sometimes the knife is up front.... sometimes it's behind your back, but it's always busy.

The smiling face wants you to thank it for it's smiling words. ::twist::

It wants you to let your guard down, and forget.  ::twist::

Drop your present course, and be hopeful again.  ::twist twist::

Make plans with the smiling face.   ::twist:: 

You can trust it.... it's smiling.

::twist::

The combination of smiling words and busy blade can be very nauseating, IME.

Eventually, the phrase: "What you are speaks so loudly in my ears, I can't hear a word you're saying" pops into your mind whenever the smiling face opens it's pathological pie hole.
Lighter

[Ales2]

Let me finish your sentence, with all due respect!

When narcissists are nice, they are just controlling you..... you open up, share and then they turn on you. Don't fall for it!


Love and support to all of us who got sucked in! 

[nolongeraslave]

Let me finish your sentence, with all due respect!

When narcissists are nice, they are just controlling you..... you open up, share and then they turn on you. Don't fall for it!


Love and support to all of us who got sucked in! 

Phew, you summed it up so nicely and short.

[Twoapenny]

Hi NLS,

My mum can charm the birds out of the trees when she turns it on.  She'd be doing dispicable things one minute and then be so lovely I would think I'd over reacted or misinterpreted what she'd done before.  She'd be a bitch to me to my face and then say really nice things about me to other people.  She'd be lovely to me and be saying awful things about me to others.  One time I rang her after several months of having nothing to do with her at all after a particularly viscious row.  She said "Oh hello love" like she'd last spoken to me the day before and chatted away as if nothing had ever happened.  If it weren't for the fact a couple of my friends had seen the state I was in after the row I'd have thought I'd imagined the whole thing.

What I've found has helped me over the years is to focus on me and what I want.  Spend the holidays where I want to spend them, spend my money on what I like, hang out with the people I enjoy.  If you feel like you can spend an hour or two with her every now and again, do that - if it feels like too much, do something else.  I think it's hard to get your head into a kind of "I'm just going to think about me" kind of setting, but I found it helped me a lot.

I also think the marrying a good man thing is partly generational.  For a long time women really had no worth unless they were hooked up, and they got their status (and often their income) from their husbands.  I think the idea of complete independence - or even of just dating for fun rather than to try and find a husband - are still pretty alien concepts for some people.  Which doesn't detract from her messing with your head, I just think it's another avenue where some people will try and control and influence what you do and how you live.

And I think you're right to listen to your body.  Our bodies are fab at letting us know something's wrong, but we're often not so great at hearing what they're saying.  My mum was quite literally toxic to me.  So many of my health problems went away once I stopped having contact with her.  It's very sad.  You sound like you're handling things really well - and enjoying your chap!

[nolongeraslave]

Twoapenny, you just described my life story.  My roommate even said "You're not going back to Chicago. You were so depressed for a month after you came back!"   I have been focusing on myself, but N mom is like  someone that keeps tugging you. They know that you're improving yourself, and they will do everything it takes to knock you back down. Maybe my mom's obsession with marriage is her way of trying to regain control.  Since I don't live with her and am challenging her beliefs, she probably feels crazy. She needs SOMETHING to fuss over.

The reward of focusing on myself has been worth it.  Being happy single and independent first has attracted a nice man in my life. Feeling that I needed a man to save me has only attracted the wrong types.  

The fact that my mom demands to know where something is going when I just met someone irks me.  Her behavior has caused me to act anxious in the past, and the man just runs off.  Has anyone read "Why men marry bitches? or "The rules?" Asking "Where is this going?" and "Do you want to get married? Am I wasting my time" just harm your chances more of securing a commitment.

I'm trying VERY hard to not to let her feed thoughts in my head.  If this current relationship ends, I need to be prepared and move on. I can't feel like damaged goods or feel sad as to why I  haven't been married yet.  This is my mom's language and I need to get it out. It's okay to be happy alone, and men respect that more than a woman who feels incomplete without marriage.



I must admit the perosn I'm seeing is the opposite of an abuser. In a way, it's an experience to help me show what a healthy relationship is. If it ends, it's just a lesson to help me move on to something better and break the cycle.

[sKePTiKal]

Caller ID....

is your friend! When she calls and wants to go on in this vein - or even if you simply don't WANT to take a chance that she does - don't pick up. Let it go to voice mail.

If nothing else - you can yell back at the voicemail and know that you are completely safe behind your boundaries. Then, maybe later, you'll be able to tell her flat out - hey! Nothing personal mom, but it's none of your business!! And I'm not discussing it with you.

[Hopalong]

Lighter, you just described my boss' "display" to a T. Shudder.

NLAS, you're really thinking straight. I hear you about how HER pushiness (over your boundaries, into your personal life, as any relationship you may or may not be building with a man is YOUR property and business, not hers...she should NOT hear about its existence until there is something you decide to tell her on your own timetable, not because she's dying to know...) comes out as your own anxiety.

Big firm boundary with her, none of her business. Change the subject. Over and over.

New habit, but it'll create space for you to build a healthy relationship or just enjoy dating.

xo
Hops

[nolongeraslave]

Not picking up doesn't work. She will persistently call and leave nasty messages on how I'm ignoring her, or play "victim" by saying "Waah you don't like me anymore".   She will also get other family members to gang up on me.  God knows what nasty rumors she's spreading about me as of now. N moms LOVE to plot siblings against each other.

I'm still working on changing the subject with her.  I feel like she knows what I'm trying to do, so she will use any smart comeback to get me irritated.    When I say "I don't know. Got to go", she will prod and prod and prod....You just have to be there to know what it's like to give up!

I've always felt like nothing works with her.

The reason why I had to tell her about my current bf is b/c she put my ad on a dating around the same time I met him. I wanted to keep him private, but that situation made me tell the truth.  Otherwise, she would have been leading many men on that I was single. That's not fair to them.    These men were even leaving me voicemails on asking me to call them back!  Another man was constantly texting me, even when I told him I wasn't interested. Yet, he was trying his "luck" thinking that he could win me over.

I gave up and told all of these men, "Look, I'm seeing someone. This was all my parents' idea." Of course, my mom  said "Why are you telling them your business?"
She was scared as to what these Indian men will think, but that was the only way to get these men to stop bothering me.     A lot of Indian guys think Indian women are sluts for dating outside of their race.   When my boyfriend and I walk out in public, we notice that we get tons of dirty looks from Indian men.  But, I don't give a shit.

Sorry, I'm rambling on.  It's just been a moody week.

[sKePTiKal]

NLS -

well, I can appreciate that you don't want to give her any more ammunition to make you look awful, via her version of how she believes you're treating her. Thing is, with boundaries, if she can't be trusted to respect your wishes - and your privacy - then she can't be trusted with any information on that topic. Changing the topic often backfires for me; my mom is too obsessive and can feel threatened if I try to herd her along to less sensitive areas of conversation. (unless I'm asking something directly about her!)

An essential aspect of the "game" she plays, depends precisely on the fact that she can count on you to pick up the phone... to play. That you won't just let it go to voicemail; that you won't refuse to participate in conversation about certain things - so that she can get her digs & jabs in... try to play the "make NLS feel guilty" card... and even try to get you to slip up and give her a snippet of information that she can then weave all kinds of imaginary storylines around.... with you as the villain and herself as long-suffering victim, of course.

I don't know how this sits with you, but I sure get tired & angry dealing with this! So, for me it's just much easier to not pick up - and let the chips fall where they may - about what she might say to someone else. For me, it's the lesser of two evils... since I'm already the scapegoat in the family, you know?

[lighter]

It's like having someone smile at you..... expectantly......

while they try to push your face under the water.....

asking why you're so upset?

Why don't you just calm down?

Everything will be OK, if you'd just stop struggling.

::shudder::

[Hopalong]

NLAS,

You're under so much pressure. Because it's not just your mother and abuser step-dad, there's also a particular cultural expectation that your life does not belong to you, and that planning for and matchmaking YOU is something other people can do without your permission, and they're all free to speculate about you as though you were a prize heifer.

Even if she weren't an N, your mother has the excuse of her culture--to interfere, smash boundaries, and treat you like a possession or an object for sale on EBay rather than a person.

It will take a lot of clarity and strength to decide how much of your original culture (and their support) you're going to enjoy and work into your life, and what parts you're going to leave behind. Culture is fluid, like phamily. It is changing and being modified in every generation, all the time. And free human beings, who are not slaves, have a choice about what they want to perpetuate.

There's a cost to permitting so many disrespectful intrusions, literal and metaphorical, and you have already paid a lot of it. I do think you're building the clarity and strength you will need to draw boundaries for yourself, and stop being her canvas.

As to stranger swains who may be making assumptions about you based on her false information? You know, you are not responsible for protecting them. They'll manage their disappointment or confusion just fine. They will not be harmed if you simply say the truth as you have been: "No, I am not available. My mother is confused and did this without my permission." But it might be nice to just change your phone number.

(BTW, "not available" -- you don't even have to tell those males that you're involved with another male, in order to have "permission" to say No to them. You are allowed to belong to yourself. This is what Not a Slave means.)

I had a friend in grad school who first taught me about that. She wouldn't answer the phone or the door not for any dramatic reason, but just because at that time she was thinking, or painting, and she just valued her own mind's freedom. A ringing bell obligated her to absolutely nothing.

love,
Hops