Dismissiveness - the scars of living amonst the Ns

[sKePTiKal]

Hi GS...

How did I avoid the social expectations and empty forms of pleasantries?

Creativity in my responses to "How are you"? Accepting that other people had no obligation to care how I am... and releasing them from that expectation from me. If I wasn't fine - I said I was "OK". I wasn't "fine" for a real long time. Or give a short description or sometimes just the name of the emotion will do. That gave me a moment's gratification for expressing my genuine emotion - but didn't dump it all out over an unsuspecting bystander...

I had a "wake up" moment when I realized that people weren't sitting around waiting for me to say or do something, just so they could judge me - in fact, no one was paying attention at all. (That was a HUGE relief!!) That reduced a lot of the anxiety I had about saying, doing, being the "right" thing... in truth, there is no "right" way and the old social conventions actually get in the way of real connecting with others. My quirk of responding unexpectedly to the "how are you" question actually brought smiles from a lot of people, opened the door to real communication and connection sometimes. It also put a lot of people off - so it goes both ways. For me, this was a good way to separate the people who were really listening to me vs the ones who were only going through the motions. You'd be amazed how many never caught some of my wilder responses...

Establishing and nurturing a few relationships where I could express myself and emotions genuinely and directly also helps... where I could say anything and it was understood the reason I was saying it was to get it outside of where I was feeling it - so I might be able to see it from a different angle. Like we do here. One doesn't need hordes of friends like this - but not having anyone to do this with, kind of nurtures a form of desperate personal energy... like a wavelength of neediness or something... and it's hard to exist or breathe in that kind of desperation no matter which side of it you're on.

Of course - we can do that here and this is the great value of the board.

Back in the Twiggy-era, when I was really hurting... is when I came up with that way of responding to how are you. It was a way of being authentic (and not "caught" being truthful about my emotions - that wasn't allowed). It was also a way to weed out the fakey-fakey people who didn't even HEAR what I said - because they just didn't care. Children of abuse have some real issues with words meaning what they're supposed to mean. So often the parents said one thing and did the complete opposite, you know? This was my way to turning the tables on that crap...

Does that help you understand what I mean?

[sKePTiKal]

Hi there... wondering how you are and how things are going.

Did I totally lose you on my "theory" of social expectations? It wasn't overly clear... and maybe my other post says more about my own dysfunction than provides a useful structure for thinking about this... you know?

The thing is: a lot of the normal interactions of people going about their day simply don't have a designated space for the kinds of intense emotions that come up for me - or maybe you or ? - while in the process of working through to "blue sky"... and while we know that it's necessary to honor those emotions - they do stand out to others, who will do their best to avoid the emotions and look away... or in some cases, chastise the emotional one. That more intense level of emotion, I suspect, is too personal - too much information - for people who aren't intimately acquainted and in a close relationship with the person experiencing the emotion.

There were times, when even my hubs would try to get me to lower the intensity of what I was feeling. He was uncomfortable with how uncomfortable I was - and literally didn't know what to do or say that would help. This has gotten better, since I've begun to learn how to talk about my feelings... instead of becoming a giant ball of feeling, spinning so fast in the center of that feeling that bits and pieces of it flew off and splattered everyone and everything around me. I was the feeling, you know?

My feelings can still be extremely intense... but instead of becoming the feeling and letting myself be consumed by it... I simply give it a name and say: I'm feeling __________. And it still shows pretty clearly on my face what I'm feeling - but the simple act of saying what feeling I'm feeling... is just enough involvement of the rest of my brain... to contain it... and let it be controlled... and held... until dissapated enough that I start to work it the rest of the way out. And it's enough to say what I'm feeling - to people I don't know that well - without explaining why or what the story that goes with the feeling is...

... and I find that this is more "accepted" socially and even helps establish a connection. People can relate to the "name" of an emotion better than they can respond to the embodied expression of the emotion. There are no guarantees, however, nor any "accepted protocols" about emotions in social etiquette either, that I can think of... except that raw intense emotions are reserved for intimate relationships. And that's more of a personal observation than anything I've read in Miss Manners...

You know how we tell kids to "use their words" instead of act out their emotions? I think it's sort of the same thing and not something, I for one, was taught as a child. If it weren't for the board, where I know and trust - that my strong emotions will not scare off other people (adding that additional feeling of being "bad" and "dismissed" or like I just let off a loud fart in the middle of church) and that I will be heard out... I would have to work through to lowering the intensity all by myself, with the exception of a handful of people in 3-D that I know I can say anything to... to get the feeling out where I can look at it and it's not so toxic... and they are willing and able to help me with it. It takes a lot longer by myself, sometimes... I can be too immersed in the feeling - too close to it - to see it clearly. And it's still a new skill for me... I'm still learning how to do this.

I hope your tooth is better and that things are starting to return to "normal" a little now.

[Hopalong]

Just sitting down beside you on the porch swing
(or the porch swing I've mentally put on your house)...

...some company, a hug and a tissue.

Let's watch stuff turn green a while.
The earth thawing, your world coming back to life.

(That sparrow will be glad to see you at the cafe...)

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Hi Hon! How're you doing? Has this been a better week, for you? Any bright spots?

I 'spect you've been busy, with all the projects you listed last time... I'm off now, researching a brand NEW theory based on some random thing that fell out of my mouth a while ago... and once I think it makes SOME sense... I'll put it out here...

but I'm sure it's not an original thought... just some "connections" of ideas that I'm re-arranging different ways.

How 'bout an update when you get some breathing space?

[Gaining Strength]

very interested in reading about your research results.

have things to write about, have been reading some threads but there are so many thoughts and threads of thoughts right now and even though they are not a jumble to me, the effort and length that it would take to convey them is a little too much.

Hoping to distill them down.

recognizing why I get so frustrated, learning to shift while in that place, also learning that there is a strong resistance to shifting.
Thinking about the anger I feel at being dismissed and understanding why but also the unfortunate coincidence that society in general prefers to minimize others discomfort and that minimizations comes across or is usually interpreted as a kindness (I don't believe it is EVER a kindness) but most are more tolerant than I.  I process it as being dismissed; not heard at minimum.

Bumped into a friend Friday and we were trading brief "war" (mother) snippets and merging into family snippets when I listed one of the insanity things I am currently straightening out post father's death, having to do with a certificate he removed from myhome after my husband died but never mentioned to me.  When she asked why would he do that and I replied "because for him females don't exist unless married" and she said "no, but why would he do that" and I gave another example of how my assessment was correct and she continued to reject my point even though she had actually been a "victim" of his interminal obsessive demands to have/see a copy of the deed of her home which his grandfather had sold to her husband's grandfather (these calls and demands went on week after week for months and months and months on end) and yet what I explained to her simpy was rejected. 

No doubt it is crazy but still ....


Beyond frustrating for me to have my reality questioned, rejected, ignored - marginalized over and over and over again.  Part of it is simply because people do not want to believe that humans behave the way Ns really behave (especially Ns with other mental illnesses) and part of it is societies bizarre need to normalize the truly bizarre.  (But still not sure why then I become the non-"normalized" in their mind - why is it that people do such incredible mental gymnastics to normalize the mentally ill N but not the victim of the N??????

What is clear is the only way to get along in society is to function as though none of the N or mental illness stuff ever effected me.  Just not sure if I can do that and very aware that a large part of me doesn't want to do that but wants my "due" for having paid such a HUGE price for it all.  "Just acknowledge the disadvantages and the missing parts!!!!!!"

[sKePTiKal]

I hear ya - you know I freak out when someone doesn't believe me (and this is probably going to continue life-long, I'm guessing; I'm sort of resigning myself to being touchy about that). I'm just struck with the fact that your friend experienced your Dad's madness first-hand and still doesn't recognize how you feel about dealing it. I'm puzzled about her response... it's as if she has a blind spot or something. Or as if she's covering up for him... so I guess I'm just really confused by that whole interaction, even though I understand your feelings, having been in your shoes enough times. I can't explain it to myself, so that it makes any sense.

On another note - my new theory is about physical body work in conjunction with psychological/emotional work. I've seen body-work as a useful compliment for some time... but now I'm seeing where the relationship might be different than I'd assumed previously. Plainly - I think there might be some merit to thinking about bringing ourselves to a physical balance first to stimulate (not just accelerate) progress in balancing mind, emotion and spirit. That in some cases, physical imbalance is an invisible, intangible obstacle to breaking out through some kinds of emotional plateaus... MAYBE. It's still just a nebulous theory right now... and I have tons of research & experimenting to do.

Over on my healthy ego thread... one of the things that got added to the design list was "trust in yourself". I've always understood this as trusting my consciousness, soul, true Self, whatever... but then I started remembering a bit about sexual abuse responses where one doesn't trust one's own body (and the whole host of weird things that arise from that)... and I began to wonder if "trust in myself" (in my own personal situation) included trusting my body... and asking if perhaps I've had an adversarial relationship with my body... and that it was trying to "tell me something" - that I denied, ignored, and dismissed as "unimportant".

Again, I dunno yet. But it "feels" like there is some good "treasure" in the swirly, nebulous ideas I'm working with as a result of the theory. Then again, maybe I'm just working on becoming a bonafide eccentric!  LOL....

[Gaining Strength]

I'm puzzled about her response... it's as if she has a blind spot or something. Or as if she's covering up for him...

I do think it is about her.  I have experienced this with her a number of times and realized a few years ago that it was something that I would have to learn to overlook but on Friday I got caughlt off guard and stepped in it and got stuck for a brief period.  All of that is ultimately my responsibility - the triggering reaction.  That is where I am in my daily dealings - learning to even WANT to do something about it.  In some way I don't fully yet understand part of me sort of luxuriates in the yuckiness of it all.  The best I can understand it is that 2 year old me (or younger or older) is replaying and replaying waiting for the rescue, the loving, the "making it all right" to come along and snatch me out and put me down in a safer place where all is understood and right.

This is a frustrating place to be because I do recognize my role in this and yet am not yet able to move out of it.  Yet past experience tells me that this is part of the process - awareness, then after a period (sometimes long, sometimes short) a shift.  Waiting on the shift.

PR - re the physical work - without even getting there from where ever you got there - something in that rings true to me and I have been saying something along those lines to myself for some months and yet I am slipping down a slope on that account.  Very interested in this concept.

eccentric  e (ex) out from  centric the center
     out from the center honestly - there is no other place I would rather be - in spite of the price of marginalization.  Out from the center saves me from being part of that which I do not admire - the ostrich life of 90 +% of humanity.

[Hopalong]

I believe in your shift, GS...

you are honest and bold in looking at yourself and how you work.

How can you not find yourself moving toward a new position? I know it must feel like tectonic change sometimes. But that doesn't make it any less wonderful. You have changed so much, just since you were first here, imo.

I admire your steady gaze and your insights into yourself. I don't think you're just ruminating.

xo
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Hops - thank you.  your words touched me.  Aren't they exactly what I have longed to hear?  How so very kind and meaningful.  thank you.

[sKePTiKal]

Now this just isn't fair. I wrote a lengthy reply this morning and posted it - I SAW it posted... and now it's gone; evaporated into the cyber-ether. My connection must've blipped again... or I'm losing my mind completely... which is a possibility! I felt bad, even, about going off into my new theory... hogging space on your thread... apparently the cyber-gods agreed with me and intervened. OH WELL... maybe it was half-baked at this stage, anyway!

About all I remember, at this point in my day:

Your 2 yr old needs a great big hug, a cookie, and sent out to the swings to play in the sunshine. That will help her refocus on something that feels better than all the yuck. These are all physical things... and even simple things like this demonstrate how our physical state can "create" feelings... change feelings... etc.

I'll try again to explain tomorrow, when I'm back in expressive-reflective mode in the morning.

[Gaining Strength]

That happened so regularly to me for a while that I began writing offline and copying into the spaces here.  Then I forgot for a while.

so FRUSTRATING!!!! grrr.

think I might eat that 2 year olds cookie before she can

[sKePTiKal]

Well, you know - I get so enthralled with the process of writing - being able to reach right down inside of "me" and pull up something for "show and tell"... and when I have an audience, to boot??? OH..... I'm simply transported! I think that's why I liked being in front of a class teaching, you know? Those people paid tuition to pay attention to me and what I had to say. I filled 'em up till they overflowed! I didn't have the same reflex "I don't matter; no one's going to listen to me" self-conscious feelings, in that role. Go figure.

But I also lose part of myself in the process... and it's quite possible that after writing all that I was getting up to take a break and instead of clicking post - I clicked cancel instead. There is a shift in the balance of power between left-right brain me, lately and some of my old dyslexic stuff is coming back up and "brain-freezes" when I'm inundated with too many numbers or complex situations. I know what it is - this rebalancing of "me" states - and it's actually a good thing. It's also a result of my struggle with my physical condition... that whole topic of my relationship with my bones, flesh and how I look.

I think I'm probably just going to start a separate thread for my new "theory" GS. I'll be long-winded again, I know! So it's just as well that my first "draft" blew up yesterday. In a nutshell, I'm finding my physical body has a much more important impact on my emotional state - on whether I'm able to let something go, for instance - than I previously understood. And my relationship with my body - the way I neglect it in particular - is all intertwined with those levels of self-acceptance, self-worth, formation of "self" and expression thereof. I'm pretty convinced right now, that this will come back to attachment style. Toxic shame plays a role, too... but not in a straightforward way and I felt like I didn't completely understand what I was trying to say about it yesterday. You might feel like keeping some distance from that topic right now, with everything ELSE that's going on...

... so maybe the universe did us BOTH a favor when yesterday's babbling disappeared!

[Gaining Strength]

so looking forward to your new thread

recognizing (again) that distraction is an avoidance.

Internet for me is a distraction

time to go through all the yuck - allow myself to go through it.
So when you do that - sit with or whatever - allow that wretchedness to be felt - how long do you allow it and how do you get out of it when the time is up?????  this is as unpleasant an anticipation as taking some dread medication with promised side-effects.

[sKePTiKal]

Now, I have the option of allowing it to take as long as it takes... but I don't, because there are other things I want to do.

When I was working a job, or if it's a particularly painful kind of yuck - I would limit the amount of time to an hour. Amazing how quickly one can process and the amount that can be processed in a whole hour! Typically I only spent a week or two on a particular topic - even though I did revisit things again and again.

The other advantage to this paced idea is that over time - as something became familiar to me in it's every gory detail - my perspective on it changed... from the initial horror and grief and rage and abandonment... to more of an OK - now what do I do? approach. Revisiting topics allowed me to observe how my feelings about X changed over time, too. I became less engaged emotionally or had more control of and choice about how emotionally engaged I would be - less affected and upset - and therefore, according to my definition - freer of the original incident.

Tapping would work too, you know... I think it's the same kind of thing... and there is a physical component - in that you can release physically held emotions from those locations (like my shoulder and ribs, for instance and the old body memory of my injuries).

But the thing about limitation of time, is to not overwhelm a person...not re-traumatize... not turn it into a form of self-abuse or obsessive, forced naval gazing - bring up an event or repeated kind of event - let the emotion shine through all the details of the memory - and hold and honor that emotion... then physically open your hands and lift them up and out... and release it. Releasing it means only that you're choosing not to hang on to the emotion physically, mentally or emotionally... and then have something specific OTHER to turn your attention to.

The emotion will linger - like it's not sure it's really "free to go". Remind that part of yourself that what happened was a long time ago and NOW things are different... and after your session, do something that completely engages your mind and emotions and body. The yuck fades over time... changes (compost creates rich fertile soil)... so don't expect immediate "magic" results. After all - you've held on to it for dear life all these years.

[Gaining Strength]

So helpful PR.

I have to read it in bits.  Take in a bite, digest it and then have another.
Today, had a something, an experience, an insight, not either though bits of both, in which I "saw" that a healing hand on my heart allows me to "feel" the extraordinary pain but receive healing out of some kind of compassion that defies comprehension.

Confirmation, affirmation seems necessary in order to move into the healing place.  Getting "vision" of how to move forward.  Less worn out.  Less frestrated.  Less hopeless.