Struggling

[Twoapenny]

Hi everyone,

Sorry, I know I'm taking more than I'm giving at the minute, for which I apologise

I am really struggling with my emotions.  They are so strong sometimes.  I feel like someone has ripped my heart out.  Last night I sobbed and sobbed and sobbed, no-one's ever wanted me.  I want so desperately to be wanted but no-one ever has and now I wonder if I've made myself unwantable, you know, so it doesn't hurt so bad.  I know it sounds silly but I felt my mum's rejection so acutely last night, not of me as an adult but when I was a kid.  She just didn't want me around.  When I look back I can see that I morphed myself into the golden child, I created this individual personality that was funny and cheerful and always full of beans, that constantly told her how wonderful she was and never complained or grumbled or had any needs or desires.  When I was like that she really liked me.  The real me - the quiet, bookish, shy child who was quite sensitive, who needed a lot of support, who wanted love and affection and craved company and encouragement - she couldn't stand.  So I just locked her away.  Now I feel like she's trying to come out but there's so much pain there, I'm finding it so hard to get it out, to let it out.  I feel like I want to do it, need to do, but at the same time I don't feel like I'm strong enough.  Another part of me just wants to run away and never come back, never deal with it.  I'm so scared if I don't do it I'll end up like my mum - drunk half the time to numb it out, no feeling for others, no empathy, no emotion, totally focused on material things and keeping up appearances.  I don't want to be like that.  Sorry.  I don't know if I'm making any sense. I feel like I've got the wrong life.  My friends are all wrong, my house is wrong, my job/my income, all of it feels wrong.  I feel like I'm living someone else's life and I don't know how to get out of it.  I keep wishing I'd find out I was adopted, for some reason I feel like that would make it all go away, I've got a real mum out there somewhere and she's just waiting to find me.  I know it's not true but I want to believe it.  It feels like trying to keep two different lifestyles going and I don't feel like I can do it anymore.  Sorry I know I'm rambling xx

[BonesMS]

Hi everyone,

Sorry, I know I'm taking more than I'm giving at the minute, for which I apologise

I am really struggling with my emotions.  They are so strong sometimes.  I feel like someone has ripped my heart out.  Last night I sobbed and sobbed and sobbed, no-one's ever wanted me.  I want so desperately to be wanted but no-one ever has and now I wonder if I've made myself unwantable, you know, so it doesn't hurt so bad.  I know it sounds silly but I felt my mum's rejection so acutely last night, not of me as an adult but when I was a kid.  She just didn't want me around.  When I look back I can see that I morphed myself into the golden child, I created this individual personality that was funny and cheerful and always full of beans, that constantly told her how wonderful she was and never complained or grumbled or had any needs or desires.  When I was like that she really liked me.  The real me - the quiet, bookish, shy child who was quite sensitive, who needed a lot of support, who wanted love and affection and craved company and encouragement - she couldn't stand.  So I just locked her away.  Now I feel like she's trying to come out but there's so much pain there, I'm finding it so hard to get it out, to let it out.  I feel like I want to do it, need to do, but at the same time I don't feel like I'm strong enough.  Another part of me just wants to run away and never come back, never deal with it.  I'm so scared if I don't do it I'll end up like my mum - drunk half the time to numb it out, no feeling for others, no empathy, no emotion, totally focused on material things and keeping up appearances.  I don't want to be like that.  Sorry.  I don't know if I'm making any sense. I feel like I've got the wrong life.  My friends are all wrong, my house is wrong, my job/my income, all of it feels wrong.  I feel like I'm living someone else's life and I don't know how to get out of it.  I keep wishing I'd find out I was adopted, for some reason I feel like that would make it all go away, I've got a real mum out there somewhere and she's just waiting to find me.  I know it's not true but I want to believe it.  It feels like trying to keep two different lifestyles going and I don't feel like I can do it anymore.  Sorry I know I'm rambling xx

((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

You are NOT alone!!!!  I can identify with EVERYTHING you describe here!!!!!

Bones

[sKePTiKal]

Hi Hon!

Deep breaths... then, just slow the breathing down (doesn't have to be as deep). That'll help just a little... and a little might be enough. Same with pulling out the emotional stuff... a little at a time - babysteps - it's STILL progress no matter how small it might seem. You don't have to eat the elephant all in one bite... even the smaller pieces might make you choke because of the significance - the MEANING...

First of all - you are allowed to be "needy" right now. You are allowed to come and ask for whatever you need... even if it turns out you really needed something else later. You are allowed to be YOU... and not have to adjust yourself, twist yourself, into someone else's idea of who you are. It doesn't matter at all what "age" the you that needs is... you're ALLOWED to be that right now... and it's OK - I still see Penny there, too; she didn't go anywhere. Lucky Penny and little Penny.

Intense emotions are scary - especially when you've been convinced that there's something bad about having them, or that you're "not allowed" to have them, or that (in the case of little Penny) you'll get in trouble for having and expressing them. Intense emotions are scary when you're small and no momma's there to help you learn that emotions come and go... to hold you until the tears stop, no matter how long that takes... when we're small we're so afraid our face and feelings will "freeze like that" and we won't be able to feel the happy things again. That's not true, by the way... the fear subsides as you get acquainted with "you"... and no, I don't think it's possible for you to turn into someone with no empathy; you are feeling a ton and a half of compassion for yourself right now - even in the midst of all the other swirly, muddy emotions.

One of the emotional bear traps that are set by bioNic moms... is that any compassion for ourselves gets denigrated as "self-pity"... and of course, we can't - as children - be allowed to "indulge" in self-pity! Oh no... that would just make us "weaklings", or selfish, or whatever... and of course bioNic mom doesn't want anyone else feeling sorry for you either - that would just divert attention away from her... and how she's the victim... etc.

Hogwash. Even the youngest children learn empathy by knowing how they would feel in someone else's shoes... by having experienced something themselves. If little Penny fell and hurt herself - she would cry. She hurts. She needs cleaned up, a bandaid, held & hugged, the boo-boo kissed and a cookie maybe. She crys because it hurts and she feels compassion for herself... until someone else comes along and gives her compassion too... and comfort. You're allowed to ask for that here, tupps... we've all needed it from time to time, too.

I like to believe that lost somewhere in history, is the true purpose of crying. And that it's true purpose isn't just expressing pain or feeling "bad".... although this is a frequent association. I think crying's real purpose is detoxification. Crying lowers the intensity of emotions... though it may take longer than one expects! Crying is the same as feeling compassion for one self. Crying isn't a weakness or character flaw or self-pity personified. I cry when I'm really, really angry. I cry when I'm being crushed under the weight of too much to do or too much responsibility (usually my own fault). I cry when I feel loss so great there aren't any words... deep sadness... yearning... grief. And silly me - this contradicts my own little theory here - I cry when I feel intense love and compassion and connection...

... and I guess you might know why that it is, huh? But crying is like rain - it washes all the accumulated dust, muck, and yuck away... and it might take a lot of crying all at once (or short periods of crying over a long, long time frame)... or some other combination like this... until little Penny is done. Until she's washed all that out of her system. Your job is to hold her, do what you can to comfort her (no matter how silly it seems!)... stroke her hair, rock her, cuddle her... and allow her the time it takes to grieve her little girl's sorrows.

This is a rough stage because you do have to go about your normal life; functioning... despite all the turmoil going on emotionally. As if you are parenting yourself - because you are in the process of parenting little Penny - you do need to comfort her, console her... and gently but firmly... teach her to give you a break, too... without sending her to her room all by herself. You two have to agree on how much time to spend on this... and get to know what "feels right"... and she might be quite willing to help you, if asked, say... clean in the kitchen... or go for a walk with you and your son...

sometimes you'll "listen" to her... and sometimes, you'll "talk" to her...

[Twoapenny]

Thank you, Bonesie.  It means a lot to hear that.  Thank you ((((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))))

Thank you, Phoenix.

"First of all - you are allowed to be "needy" right now. You are allowed to come and ask for whatever you need... even if it turns out you really needed something else later. You are allowed to be YOU... and not have to adjust yourself, twist yourself, into someone else's idea of who you are. It doesn't matter at all what "age" the you that needs is... you're ALLOWED to be that right now... and it's OK - I still see Penny there, too; she didn't go anywhere. Lucky Penny and little Penny."

I think this is something I really struggle with.  I have never been allowed to be needy, even as a young child.  I have never been able to ask for anything, or be allowed to be me.  My mum often used to tell me the story of how she and my dad had a row one day and she threw his meal at him.  It hit the wall and smashed all over the floor.  My dad went to the pub and my mum went to her bedroom to cry.  She says I appeared five minutes later telling her I'd cleaned up the mess on the floor, having just witnessed what had happened, and then comforted her.  She thought this was a lovely story.  I was four years old.  Even then, having just witnessed a violent incident, neither of them looked after me.  One left, the other one waited for me to look after her.  I am really struggling with putting my arms out, crying to be held - and expecting it to happen.  I feel like the baby that never cries for a bottle because no-one ever comes with one anyway.  It feels so unnatural for me to ask for anything or even to need anything.  It makes me feel ashamed if I can't cope or I need to ask for help.  I feel like I should be able to do it all on my own.

I even feel like I need to filter for my therapist.  I feel like I ought to go to her with a neat package for her to deal with.  The thought of going in there, spilling, crying, shouting, losing it and letting her deal with whatever happens feels so, so wrong - even though in my head I know that's absolutely what I ought to be doing.  It's her job to put me back together!  But I feel like I shouldn't give her too much work to do (I must add that she's never made me feel like that, I just find it so hard to open up).

I totally get what you say about crying being like a detox.  I feel tired today because I cried so much yesterday, but I feel cleaner on the inside.  It's really odd.  But I feel so bad about crying; I find it impossible to cry in front of other people.  It feels so wrong.  It's okay to cry for someone else - at a funeral, for example - but not for me.

Something that was nice yesterday - and I wonder if it was partly what kicked me off again - was my boy.  I was driving him to his gymnastics class.  He sits in a car seat in the front of my car (he's 9 next month).  He had his hands up behind his head and his feet up on the dashboard.  He was gazing out of the window and every now and again he just commented on a car or something else he saw as we drove along (he loves trucks and really wants me to buy one, every time we go past one he says "Is that the one we're buying, Mummy?").  I looked at him and he looked so totally relaxed and happy.  I've never felt like that my whole life.  And at that minute I really felt like I'd done it, I'd given him a happy childhood and made him feel safe and secure and confident.  I really wanted him to have what I didn't and I feel like I gave him that.  So that was a really happy moment but I wonder if it woke up the little girl who never got that.

Thank you for your kind (and wise) words.  ((((((((((((((((((Phoenix)))))))))

[sKePTiKal]

You bet that woke up the little girl! She wants - still wants - that too. Those moments - when you realize you've been able to do this for your boy and others - will be something to tell her: See? It does happen like this. It's real. And maybe that will be a comfort... especially if you find a way to do this for her - now - all these years later, too.

You'll need to promise her that you'll find the way to do this for her, that works for her. It won't be just one way I don't think...

Before I formally started in on this work... I was unconsciously responding to my inner little girl and her wants & needs. I'd find myself looking at little girls shoes - the sequined red ones like in Wizard of Oz - and couldn't pull myself away, wishing they made them in my size. Or a pink bow... or some silly little toy, like a tiny stuffed pony. Sometimes I indulged the little girl... against all forms of common sense and the policeman in my head. After starting the formal work, and when I knew what was going on... I made a point of regularly responding to that kind emotional "tap on the shoulder"... the little voice saying "me too?" and making a specific effort to say with these kinds of real "gifts" - yes, you too. Sometimes it was just taking photos of my garden... flitting about with my camera taking pictures - for no real reason other than I wanted to - like some silly excited kid and yes, I was in my PJs...

... it was the conscious time & effort I was making in my "normal life" to recognize that my little girl was real - and that she was important to me that helped me comfort her. Your relationship with her and your experience of her feelings will grow and change over time. Right now, you're sort of in the "ripping the bandaid off" phase. It gets better!! I'll bet she's got a whole quirky personality waiting to unfurl itself... given a "safe" audience.

[lighter]

Keep crying ((Tup.))

Keep being brave enough to bring up, and vomit it out.

It won't kill you, though it feels like it might.

There's a part of you that needs to be heard, have your wounds recognized and mourned.

Really, deeply felt, and mourned.

Let that part have her say...... it'll be all right.

The past keeps tapping you on the shoulder, haunting your life, coming out sideways, if you don't.

It's painful.

Most people can't force themselves to do this kind of work.

You're very brave, and you're going to feel better for it, though things getting worse seems daunting.

Just know that it will get better.

Lighter

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi twoapenny

I can understand what you are saying, as I am like that but the opposite, if you will. HUH?

First of all, feel fortunate that you CAN FEEL and can cry when you need to, because I can't. I don't even know if I need to. I don't become deeply involved in an emotional way anymore. In a way I am like the psychopath, who is charming and likeable, friendly and giving, and everyone likes me, but underneath I am devoid of emotion...YET.... having at one time in my life experienced all these emotions, they (all of them) are packed away in a little compartment in my head so that I can refer to it when it is necessary (well see my guilt thread I just posted.)

My emotions were ripped right out of me when I was a little girl and I have never been much of a crier, just a loner, then I was really done in when my ex S.I.L. kicked me out and I lost D and 3 grandkids. I cried then, 1991, and not again until 2008 (at Eight Below movie) and if you have seen it, it about how the huskies left behind, 'loved' and supported one another for, what? a year? until their owner came back. it was the love and support of family to me, that I NEVER had and still don't.

I 'know' what my feelings are but they are all treated with logic instead of emotion. I am like Spock on Star Trek.

I don't advise for you to become a 'robot'; I don't have any advice, except perhaps to understand your emotions fully and put each of them in place, attached to whatever causes them----love=your son, love or anger=your mother------then my logic says to put them all in separate boxes and open only the boxes that are good for you.

I had a very strange experience about the way my mind works-- a decision to be made. Someone said the words. I, in a nanosecond, reached up and grabbed my thought before it got put away in my compartment, and I was able to immediately follow that thought to fruition, without rummaging through my compartment for the next 30 years.

Good Luck and just be happy that
you aren't
Izzy

[Twoapenny]

Hi Phoenix,

What you wrote makes so much sense.  She feels younger at the minute - about 9?  Which interestingly is how old my boy will be next month.  I was eight when my dad died and it's his birthday next week, his anniversary the week after.  Maybe that is all stirring things up at the same time.

At the minute I feel like she needs to be carried.  Just to be carried around, you know the way you do a baby?  When my son was younger I just used to carry him all over the place.  He just liked being picked up so I did it all the time.  He still likes it now but he's almost as tall as me so it's not quite so easy!  But I feel like she just wants me to carry her for a while.  I saw my T yesterday - she's fab.  I told her I have no childhood memories of being looked after - cared for, nurtured, comforted or made to feel safe.  I don't remember being hugged when I was upset - in fact my mum never knew when I was upset because I used to hide it from her.  She didn't like me crying so if she found me doing it she wasn't mean exactly but there was no space for it in our house.  If my son cries I sit with him till he feels better.  My mum would tell us to stop - not exactly in a nasty way, but it was clear that it wasn't acceptable and we couldn't just sit there doing it.  I don't think she knew any different.  She was good at all the practical stuff - cooking, cleaning, buying presents etc - but emotion just didn't feature.  Emotionally, I raised myself.

Lighter, I am crying buckets!  I wept in front of my T yesterday.  I find it so hard to cry in front of people.  We were talking about my dad and I told her how I still used to go and wait by the road for his car after he died.  I used to think that, maybe if I still waited for him like normal he'd come.  I'd never told anyone that before, not out loud.  I've written it down but not said the words.  I avoid talking about things that make me feel upset, because I don't like to cry in front of anybody.  I felt ashamed afterwards, but feel better this morning.  I know I shouldn't feel ashamed to cry for my dad.  I still miss him.

Hi Izzy,

I do understand what you mean!  For a long time I didn't really 'feel' stuff.  I blocked things out for years with booze and drugs, and later with prescription meds.  I plugged up the gaps with shopping and redecorating and long periods of time at work.  I am glad that I'm starting to feel and work through it.  Just sometimes find it tough in the moment.  I guess the longer you lock stuff away the harder it gets to get to it again?  I can see in my mum that she isn't this evil ogre that I've felt her to be at times.  She just didn't have anyone to care for her or look after her, or to teach her how to be healthy emotionally.  So she shut bits down and she locked bits away, and she plugged up the gaps and eventually her world seemed really different to everyone else's.  I feel sad for her that she didn't have anyone to help her.  I do feel lucky that I have a therapist to work through this stuff with me, and this board, and various things like self-help books that have helped me at different times over the years.  We were talking yesterday about how your children can trigger different things in you as they get to the ages you were when things happened.  I think my mum must have had those triggers to deal with, and the only way she knew how was to get drunk and pretend it didn't happen.

I hope your guilt feelings go away!  I don't think you have anything to feel guilty for.  Without wanting to be rude about your lady, it is her responsibility to make sure her earnings are covered if she's ill.  I understand what you're saying but I don't feel it's your responsibility to make sure she can't get sick in your house.  We all get ill from time to time - she might have been run down anyway and only got ill because her immune system was already low?  I know that doesn't make you feel any less guilty and I feel sorry for the poor lady as well but sometimes these things just happen and it isn't anyone's fault, it's just life.  Like you say, if she had an accident and was off work for two years what would she do?  So I hope you don't keep feeling guilty!

Thank you everyone.  Thank you so much.  I'm off to spend a quiet day with Little Penny and my little boy xxxxx

[sKePTiKal]

Hey kiddo - keep up the GOOD WORK! Really, I mean it - you're doing really well, even if it feels like crap at this point...

and that is the point - to do an archeological dig, complete with emotional forensics - to determine what those feelings are, where they're located, and to finally deal with them. Yes, it might involve a few crying jags... the practice might make crying feel a bit more "normal"? Like, it's OK to cry over things like this... other people really do understand and would cry if it happened to them, too.

It's really a good sign, if you "know" what it is little Penny needs/wants, and instinctively give it to her. She might need to be carried around for awhile - like your son did - just to establish that it's really OK to have that primal need for gentle touch and physical closeness actually met. Once she knows she can count on it being there - if she really needs it - she'll get down and do something else. It's through these instincts... that kind of "knowing"... that you'll establish the relationship needed later on. You'll start to feel like you've just added the perfect "best friend" ever in your life... even though at the moment, it feels like she needs you more than you need her; the situation does reverse and y'all will start taking turns.

And let's not underestimate the cohones needed to deliberately turn and face those crap feelings! Once and for all... it's no easy task for an adult... so it's easy to forgive the little one, who simply couldn't face it - especially alone - and needed someone to show her the "ropes" about how to face it, at least the first time. She might surprise you, in this too - in that she may have done pretty well for a little one; better than some adults might have. But she's still just a "little one" - with all those emotional needs... and wants to be treated that way for now.

[BonesMS]

(((((((((TwoAPenny/TUP/Lucky Penny/Little Girl Penny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I hear you!

Bones

[lighter]

TupL

It might help you to sit and talk to your dad, and say what you would have said when you were 9yo.

You can tell him how sad it was to sit by the road and wait.

How much he meant to you and why.

What it felt like to miss him.

Just keen and slobber and let it all out...... that 9yo needs to say it, I think.

Hugs to you and your courage, my dear.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Dear ((((Tupp))))

This isn't meant to be as superficial as it may sound:

1) I'm so glad you're letting those cleansing tears flow.

2) Please drink a lot more water and herbal tea than you usually do. (Double it.)

You're actually maybe dehydrated. People forget.

love,
Mamahops

[Twoapenny]

Phoenix, thank you.  I'm finding it quite frenetic at the minute.  Good days, bad days, in between days.  Sometimes I feel like I'm glimpsing the future - without all the mess, self doubt, constant analysis and so on.  It looks nice.  Other days it's taking everything I've got just to get out of bed and get dressed.  In between days are okay, I can just potter around and get on with things.  On a good note, the house and garden are both much easier to keep on top of since you all encouraged me to have a good de-clutter.  And in my nice new spaces, I've put a little vase of flowers, a picture of my dad and a candle.  I wasn't allowed to really acknowledge him before.  If my mum were still in touch with me she'd look at that and see it as a sign of mental illness.  So it feels like quite a big deal to give him pride of place on the mantlepiece.  I bought some spring flowers for the vase and I have a little elephant candle holder that I bought at an exhibition about WW2.  My dad fought in Burma so it feels very apt to have that next to his photo.

Bones, thank you, from all the Pennies!  You are always so supportive, I appreciate it so much

Lighter, I will sit and talk to my dad.  Now I have this space I've created it feels like I have somewhere to focus on him.  I've never had that before.  It's his anniversary next week.  I haven't been able to go to the cemetery for a long time because of my son (it's a long drive and my little boy doesn't understand what the place is so the last time I took him he just ran around and I couldn't sit and think, I had to just grab him and get out of there!).  But I've got childcare arranged for next week so I can go up there and spend some time with him.  I've also written to The Salvation Army to see if they can help me trace my brother.  I haven't seen him since I was 7.  I'd really like to reconnect with that side of the family.  I might ask if they can help at the crematorium; I thought they might keep records about whoever arranges the funerals or something so there might be some information that could be useful.  Worth asking, I think, as I'll be up there anyway.

Hopsie, thank you.  I hadn't thought about dehydrating.  I haven't been drinking much water at all lately.  I will get on the case!  I've been getting headaches, that might be why.  Thank you.

Thank you, everyone ((((((((((((((((((Everyone)))))))))))))))))) !!!

[sKePTiKal]

(((((((((((((Twoapenny)))))))))))))

It sounds like you're doing pretty good, actually. The emotions aren't easy, I know. But you do seem to be handling it all OK... and all by itself - that is an achievement! Don't forget to give yourself credit and pat yourself on the back, too. A little treat or reward - or even day off - from time to time helps.

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, Phoenix.  My son is at holiday club four days next week.  I am having a day out shopping - first for 9 years! and getting my hair cut.  Hopefully meeting up with an old friend I haven't seen for years as well but that depends on his work so don't know just yet.  But I am trying to build some nice bits in to look forward to.  Winter is starting to recede as well which is always good, just having a bit more daylight every day makes a difference!  Thank you.  I hope you have a nice weekend xxx