Narcissism and Mind Reading

[Hopalong]

I don't think Ns see into other people very well in the sense that I don't think they know other people. To really know someone else requires empathy.

But I have experienced that the Ns I have known have just-amazing radar when a person (target, Nsupplier, relative) shows some vulnerability. Even a very subtle and slight or briefly slipped vulnerability. I think they detect those cracks in boundaries much better than other people do, because exploiting others' vulnerability is how they get their supply.

Normal healthy people with sturdy functional boundaries don't live with Nabuse. If they detected it, they'd just leave. But those who hang in, or are trapped in, are the ones Ns practice this radar on...

Any vulnerability is an opportunity. I sense it with my Nboss all the time. He watches, he pokes for reactions, he tries different "displays" of his various "wonderfulness" and then slides back around to whatever his other agenda is. He's a chameleon, a slick dancer, and a mind games master.

Great radar is part of it...but it's not knowing people or making friends. It's know when there's a scent of vulnerability, and he'll sniff it out faster than anyone in the building, and soon enough, he'll make some sly remark, oh so subtle, that shows you he was recording.

That's what the new employer said about his son, who'll get a totally masked look on his face now and then, which is really creepy. "He's recording." That's how it feels with his father too, and the Nsigns are in the son too.

Hops

[Guest]

Really made sense to me Hops. That 'recording' face is one I know well (danger danger!).

We have to learn to 'mask' ourselves in their presence, so that our vulnerabilities are more difficult to see.

[Hopalong]

Eggzactly, Guest.

And that's what is so exhausting.

I'm naturally open and love to engage...and it is just a whole pile of work to remember to be on guard. It does not come naturally and I dislike it.

But what I CAN do is try to be sure that most of the rest of the time, my free time, I'm spending with people who don't go blank-mask-with-knife...

Bless my friends. Bless my church. And bless all-a-y'all.

Hops

[Guest]

Hops

It does not come naturally and I dislike it.

Oh I learned to do it so well it seemed natural! Of course, in a way, it was....

No more. It's just a tool i can get out and use if need be. Useful but not always necessary, as you say.

[sKePTiKal]

I quite resent feeling forced into that kind of masking. I'm not even sure it's that useful as a protection tool anymore... a survival strategy... I have been practicing other techniques that seem to be as - if not more - effective.... SOME TIMES.

But I wanted to pop on here and comment on my own expectations of having my mind read... I don't know whether it's from just a profound mismatch of "type" between my mom and I... where she simply didn't have the ability to "see" what I needed... or if I simply incorporated her demand that we kowtow and anticipate her needs... as my own way of functioning. I've seen it come up enough times lately - that maybe it's being sloughed off (and still hanging on by fingernails).

Particularly in my close relationships, I've started to see the cycle of unspoken "need" or "demand"... the confusion that ensues when say hubs, is trying to figure out what I want/need, and how quickly my disappointment shifts into frustration - giving up - despair - hopelessness emotions... and of course, coming to the conclusion there's something wrong with me - self-blame and condemnation. I guess I see it better from the vantage point where I'm at now... just a bit of distance lets you take in more than just the close-up details...

anyway - it seems this is a basic communication issue, mostly. And if we're programmed to assume that the rest of the world doesn't or can't understand our base-level emotional need (which simply isn't true - it's the old pattern of Nmom) and we don't even try to verbalize or communicate with the other person... aren't we just shooting ourself in the foot? Aren't we hoping that someone magically sees and knows how to help us?

I went through something like this with hubs this week - where my brain went into melt-down mode and locked up and wouldn't process any more information... because something emotional was coming up and blocking the mental process. I was trying to tell me something, I think - but I couldn't hear it because of all the mental details hubs was focussing on in an attempt to magically satisfy and blow away my growing discomfort. He thought I was angry - and I looked and almost felt like I was angry - but it was different energy. I knew I had to simply get away physically from the task at hand. I didn't go back to it or think about it until the next day. And it had settled enough that I was finally able to put into words what my concerns were... what I wanted... and what that felt like.

So, yeah - even we can have those emotional expectations that someone "knows" us well enough; is so well attuned to us and our thoughts and emotions and needs that they can read our minds. And I also think this is part of what we all yearn for - that sense of oneness, belonging, being loved and accepted unconditionally... it's something we've missed out on - or didn't have "enough" of - and we're simultaneously wary of any semblance of promises of this - because of the hidden teeth or nastiness we've experienced through the dysfunctional experiences of this type of relationship.

Once doesn't mean "always"... and I think we cheat ourselves out of opportunities by letting low-level brain functions try to warn us off of any relationships that might have some attunement capability (snake-stick syndrome)... or throw up a "caution N-ahead" sign for ourselves... and therefore limit and mask ourselves - unnecessarily, i.e., doing to ourselves what we HAD to do previously... when we have other tools at our disposal which do not include shrinking ourselves, hiding, or putting ourselves down - just to create some "safety".

Other tools include communication skills, defining and maintaining clear boundaries, management of expectations (what's possible and realistic vs ideal and presuming)... etc. These other tools DO work well in relationships with Ns... way better than I had any reason to hope they would; and it's does involve a serious effort and intent on my part... not letting my guard down, in other words... they don't have any impact whatsoever on other PD types, though.

[Guest]

Good points Amber.

I don't expect any mind-reading from anyone. I talk my head off with safe others. I'm quite selfish about it. I give myself a headache!

Yeah, those things do work with Ns. So long as they're not really incredibly stupid. Stupid Ns don't listen much and if they do, they don't understand. Too busy thinking of their next sentence/paragraph/chapter. I had 47 minutes non-stop on the phone last week and i tried to talk several times and was talked over. Sod that eh?

Masking is not detrimental to me. It is simply going blank of emotion or connection, like a snake. It doesn't hurt! It's just a surface shut-down state until i can remove myself from their presence. Just for looks really. make sense?

[Hopalong]

if we're programmed to assume that the rest of the world doesn't or can't understand our base-level emotional need (which simply isn't true - it's the old pattern of Nmom) and we don't even try to verbalize or communicate with the other person... aren't we just shooting ourself in the foot? Aren't we hoping that someone magically sees and knows how to help us?

I have learned it is utterly UNSAFE to verbalize my needs with Nboss. Boundaries and the other "on guard" examples you give are all that matter in this situation. Otherwise, communicating (even clearly and unemotionally) can backfire. Like I said, he has just-amazing radar and despite all my efforts, I cannot be perfectly "sealed" against the pain of mistreatment. I am not capable of closing down that much but I do need to, to survive here.

Guest, thank you for this. My goal with masking is to be able to do this exactly -- I need it badly:

Masking is not detrimental to me. It is simply going blank of emotion or connection, like a snake. It doesn't hurt! It's just a surface shut-down state until i can remove myself from their presence.

It's just very difficult for me to stay so shut-down 40 hours a week. It's exhausting to stifle my spirit for so long. But that truly is what it takes, to endure this job. I need to work on finding a more Zen way of doing it, that isn't like wrenching my spirit back into a box of ice.



Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Aww Hops - that quote refers to other Normal people - I find I'm secretly hoping and expecting other people "get me" and what I need... without my directly communicating those needs to them. With your Nboss... that would be kinda like offering yourself up as a sacrifice... definitely not recommended for use with a landshark!

But I remain convinced that the Nboss' of the world aren't as all-powerful (and definitely not as all-knowing) as they like to think they are... and I know for a fact, that it's the people around them who have the most power - people like you Hops. Problem is - we get so beat down by just the bleakness and futility you're talking about - we miss the opportunities the Ns offer to exercise that power. (They are so self-unaware they don't ever catch those opportunities they're opening up, either.) There are chinks in their shiny, warped armor... and it is possible to claim our power again with these types of people. Ultimately - yes, getting away is the only solution... but until that opportunity presents itself - you gotta start looking for those chinks in the armor!

[Guest]

((((((Hops)))))))
You can't do it 40 hours a week and you shouldn't have to (I mean, he must have to pee sometimes?)

Be slightly wary about exercising power through chinks in armour. If they get a whiff that you are challenging, capable, secure..they will overwork you and then kick you down. Just my experience.

On the other hand, insist on your rights and just take them. Go out to lunch (if it's a legal requirement that you take lunch), leave on time etc....

[Hopalong]

Thanks, PR...actually I don't want to engage him or look for his own chinks --  it really is too dangerous and I am too tired and he does exceed my skills. Not only is he a smart, charming N, but he had 20+ years of training from a guru in manipulating (on top of the garden-variety Nskills at that). Nope, I do not want to engage or fancy myself a sly combatant with him. I will lose. Already have, in most of the ways that matter. I am not exhilarated by the thought of outwitting him. Though sometimes I do based on raw skills (I see a lot about the zeitgeist and about consumers and the demographic that he misses, since he fundamentally isn't interested in who people are. And that's useful) -- it's not helpful. (Again, he resents that I give what is needed so ... ehhh, it's gotta be boring hearing me go on about this.)

He senses whenever I withdraw...the next thing, predictable as rain, is that he gushes insincere praise for me in front of a third party (always an outsider, never the men on the board). Once he said, "oh, I forgot to give you praise for that" and I thought, eeeek, does that sound like the mechanistic interactions of a guru, or what? Ewwww. Squick.

Thanks, Guest. I am beginning to assert rights in small ways, the main one being I simply state that I am taking a walk break, and for 20 minutes a day, I leave the premises. (Drive down the road to walk down an empty lane. Sometimes that's depressing too...as it's more isolation...but the walk does help.) And today, I meditated in the bathroom for 5 minutes.

I have battled overtime from the get-go, and will not give away the time any more. Fortunately, the nicest coworker, who manages the calendar, has some similar feelings. Even 40 hours of this, though, feels like 80.

I'll be better in future. Once I'm through the losing-home and moving bit, and no longer swimming in fear: where will I go, how bleak will it be? I'll be okay I think. Not okay enough to look forward to not having to work like this, but okay in a place.

As to swiping a little time on the Net or having a snack? Every day.

xo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Yep - like guest says, the latter option of standing up for you and without asking permission - just stating that you're enforcing your rights is often the easiest way to draw a line in your position. I DO understand about the energy required (it's taken me down to keep trying this, too). And the guru aspect of it?? Well, that's why I left Ex#2... and wasted no time between announcing and doing. People like that can rationalize away crimes against nature and make you BELIEVE the blue sky is actually more of solid, medium-warm gray... (about a #6 gray...). Run like hell is the only practical option I think... but sweetie, I do know you can't... I'm just saying there are ways to combat the bleakness (which is a form of neutralizing the N - or winning), and maybe the effectiveness of a particular thing dims over time and you need a whole collection of things - yeah, there are just days all the feral cat wants to do is go back to bed and pull the covers over her...

I'm just tryin' to reflect a little bright sun optimism over your way. So you don't completely convince yourself that bleakness is all you can expect in the future - your inescapable fate - and that there is only one way the facts of your current situation will fit together... and that this is unavoidably awful. Maybe I'm just full o' hot air... and maybe I'm wrong... but I think part of the reason I still fight so much of my own self-doubt... is that little by little my own convictions about how life sucks are getting worn away by life-evidence to the contrary. And believe it or not - I still fight against, resist - being convinced of that, myself.

It's like - because all "happiness" is temporary (my warped logic goes on to say)... it's less real; less enjoyable even and not to be trusted... than just accepting the bleakness. And that logic's corollary is that because the bleakness is so easy to see and appears to be everywhere... well, then that's more "real" than the opposite. That's my OLD mindset... and I think this belief - this warped logic - is actually the source of a lot of the upside-down Alice in Wonderland kind o' crap that I've been trying to jettison and replace with new stuff.

One thing I've decided makes more sense - and is more accurate to my perception - is that the bleakness and happiness are co-existant and constant all the time. They are different frequencies of (maybe something like) electromagnetic energy that are always all around us. And if I make an intentional effort to work past the static by adjusting my receiver - just so - I can actually tune in the station that I really want. Sometimes that knob gets loose and can't make the fine adjustments needed... so it's time to bring out the microtools and find the allen wrench and give a screw a few tweaks, to tighten it!!

I've got more wack-o stuff like this... if it made you smile!

[Hopalong]

thanks, PR...I appreciate the cheer.
I don't state anything about "rights" to him (that increases his aggression, because he dislikes government, because he is so special --read "enlightened" that the rules/regs are just annoying) -- I just do it. In very small ways, and that is okay. I'll find more things to do. Going to bring in a very special piece of art from home, in fact, and rotate art in and out, so I get to spend time looking at my favorite and most meaningful things.

I don't know if this makes sense, but perhaps your change in circumstances (external ones) has also contributed to your optimism? Sure would mine. I am trying to maintain or rebuild optimism when my practical circumstances are heading in an opposite direction. I will make my accomodations to it all and it sure will not drain meaning or opportunities for happiness from my life, but it sure is having an real effect on my physical and mental health.

Too much work + too much worry. If those could ease some, all would change.

I am grateful for your energy, and time writing...thanks, (((((Amber)))).

xo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

perhaps your change in circumstances (external ones) has also contributed to your optimism?

HA - you'd think so, wouldn't you?

I still struggle daily with the same old, same old Hops. I still have fear, anxiety, and I have daily grief letting go sessions - the eyes just leak, and I'm no longer trying to stifle that, explain it or cover it up... I don't even care anymore what part of my past or present story I'm grieving... pick one!! I still have a very difficult time opening up and trusting others - even Hubs - emotionally. And while I don't fear it - I KNOW that my circumstances can change just as quickly again in the other direction. I live with that fact every day and struggle with it, too. I still don't believe in 'security' - except my personal security of being able to adapt and respond to situational change.

Something HAS shifted in me, though. I'm not completely stuck in my old "life sucks" negativism - and I'm not totally free of it either. I have a built-in surviver's guilt meter... and the critical thought, behavior, and emotion "cop" on my shoulder to deal with... that knee-jerk reflex that asks: why did you do/say that?? Excruciating self-consciousness AFTER the fact. Just because I let myself be myself - without any mask on.

And I still have a lot of the entrenched, embedded self-sabotage - self-abuse, to root out - it's as invasive as bamboo... and just as hard to eradicate.

But I'm also dealing with this head-on, less and less. It doesn't work anymore. Instead, I'm deliberating looking for the Yang in the Yin, seeking to increase my awareness of it... and eventually come to whatever is my own natural balance of cynicism, sarcasm, and optimism. In push hands, a basic premise of how it works to defeat an opponent, is to wait until you sense they're building to an aggressive moment... then you simply step out of the way... and their own energy/force defeats themselves.

I'm trying to get out of the way of my own self-sabotage programming... not be there, to be a target. And the only other place to be - is the sunny side of life, you know? [this is all trial and error stuff... me stumbling around trying this & that... discarding what doesn't work; keeping what does... and just trying to aware of what's going on... there is no method in my madness]