N-Counsleor (NSaint)

[Gabben]

Hi Everyone,

Have not been here much in the last couple years but my healing from growing up in dysfunctional N home continues.

What initially brought me to this board was my work with a counselor (NSaint as I would call her), but in my spiritual growth I have worked to not objectify or even worse demonize people as my dark side, shadow part of myself was doing. The darkness in me, my shadow, was filled with contempt for abusers, raw hatred. This raw hatred came from buried unconscious feelings of hatred and humiliation within me. Old stores of shame that my abusive N mom had dumped on me as a child, such as abandonment as well as being objectified by my mom, neglected in my emotional needs etc.. My work with the N counselor triggered my deeper wounds of N, my own, and what came to me from my N FOO.

The story with the Ncounselor drove people nuts (putting it lightly) having to hear about it over and over again.  I would move on from her, get her out from under my skin and then she would show back up in my community circle or social circle. I would hear of her doing some ministry or speaking engagement and it would trigger the feelings of powerlessness as well as humiliation that she put me through as well as the old unfinished business. But I found a way to see God or healing in this strange drama by recognizing the sifting I was getting by her evil behavior, helping to bring up the wounds, for you cannot heal what you cannot feel and like lyrics in a song, “the wounds she gave me would be the wounds that would heal me.”


Last year, my parish actually tried to stand up for me to her for her slander, calumny and covert relational aggression of me. Her excuse or cover up was to make or fabricate photos of me (perhaps a no face person) trying to have sex with a dog and show them to my parish, pastor etc. Her idea was to try to smear me in the eyes of others as evil. She is convinced that I am evil, she has demonized me and made me out to be her scapegoat for her darkness that she of course refused to own. Eventually, my parish realized that the photos were fake. However, there was zero consequence for her in her lies. My parish, as a matter of fact, continues to promote her book and website.

I have had to move away from this again. I know that at some point she will just destroy herself or someone will hold a very powerful mirror up to her that will help her heal, as I have been praying. But for the most part, she is a genius at hiding her N stuff, she is an actress and her act is the saintly one.

What amazes me is that  she is so deeply and full blown in her Narcissism. She is the ultimate proverbial wolf in sheep’s clothing, gobbling up people, unknowingly to them.

How do and why do N’s get away with their abuses?

At least this last hit, received last night, is pulling up more pain for me and helping me to get well. It is another whack of evil, sifting me to deeper feelings of humiliation, confusion and old trauma as well as the new trauma. I am hoping that this last hit will free me even more from the bondage of self that keeps me in mild dysfunction. I actually need to thank this counselor, for she has healed me more than she knows, despite the fact that she would want me to stay ill and wounded more than anything.

[Gaining Strength]

Gabben - so good to see you here again.
Your story is mind-boggling.  Even as much as I have experienced, I find the stories of N abuse stunning.
I am so speechless about what she is doing and angered by (though VERY familiar with) the reaction (or non-reaction) by your parrish. 

How are you holding up?

[Gabben]

Hi GS,

Thanks for the response. I have often read your posts, very helpful and encouraging for me to see another really working to heal the dysfunction out of themselves, as I have been. It is the straight and narrow path but so hard to stay on, at least for me.

One of the reasons that the N-counselor is so convinced that I am the wrong one in this is because I tried to call her on her stuff, especially her lack of empathy which is hard to see because she acts like she cares so much, it had me fooled for a very long time. She thinks very highly of herself, she thinks that she is "great" which I once heard her tell me when she was trying to understand why someone else who she worked with was having problems with her. She could not understand why anyone would have issues with her because she has such a high opinion of herself as N's do. Full blown ego in disguise so it is hard for her to imagine why I would be upset with her. The truth I have tried to present to her about herself, the mirror I tried to hold up to her hurts her EGO. It is the opposite of suffering for love which she is incapable of doing.

I used to actually practically worship her, really adored her for what seemed her non-judgmental compassion, it seemed to just ooze out of her. But as time went on in my work with her I would come to understand that her compassion was not real. This became apparent for me whenever I was in pain or memories. I had done so much original pain work in the past that I new the way out was tears, going through the layers, and having a safe other as someone to tell the stories to.  I always say tears wash our eyes so we can see reality better. Also, she lacked real insight so I was able to finally realize that she herself did not have emotions or really suffer, in other words she was emotionally shallow and very fear based, not love based which eventually came out in our work together.

I'm holding up OK. The hit of her lies about me to my parish was last year. Then, yesterday, I looked at my parishes bulletin to see her book and website being promoted. It hurt like heck, as if my parish just brushed off her meanness and cruelty towards me as if it was nothing. It was so confusing. I have reached out to her several times in the last years, inviting her to meet with me in but she ignores me, probably under her pretend cover as how busy she is.

I’ve just decided to move away from my parish for good, I am in heavy grief today saying goodbye to a place that had helped in this dark world to find my way as well as it had my shelter and refuge. But in the last few years the parish has been a constant source of trauma for me. Just when I start to get strong and well another hit of confusion comes. The pain is not so much about her as it is about the frustration with the lack of justice and the wrong of people that are supposed to be fighting for truth and goodness, supposed to be shepherding people to God, not to her and her sneaking deceitful ways of fooling people into thinking that she actually has faith or love in her heart.

I just need to write this out, just need to heal it out. What is hard for me is to think about the way that others, like myself, when in pain or trying to heal, will be fooled and confused by her. They will suffer the same stuff that I suffered for along time in my work with her, her inability to really empathize. Some people, who have N FOO issues will be triggered just like I was by her, but of course she will not know what or how to handle it. I just keep hearing my God saying that in time the real truth of her will come out. I thought that her lies to my parish about me were enough for people to see her truth, but I guess people just turn a blind eye, that is why so many in this world get away with lying and hurting others, very few have the courage to do something.

[Gaining Strength]

One of the reasons that the N-counselor is so convinced that I am the wrong one in this is because I tried to call her on her stuff, especially her lack of empathy which is hard to see because she acts like she cares so much, it had me fooled for a very long time.

I have seen this type of person fool so many.  We as humans seem to want to believe in the good of others and so are quick to attribute good qualities to appearances.  People who "appear" good: physically and tempermentally are able to sway many to be their supporters.  Some of those are nothing more than conmen who use that against specific individuals and are able to sabotage their viticms by proactively subverting the reputation of the victim within a particular community and then sit back and do the "who me?" thing when the "sh8t" hits the fan from the hidden bomb the conman planted. (I am not very good at writing out my thoughts but I hope you can follow my line of thinking.)  My point is people like your N therapist are successful at what they do for a number of reasons.  They are able to get people to believe them because they (the N) appear to be what others admire or value.  The ConNs are fantastic at reflecting back to people what they want to see of themselves.  In other words, these ConNs make people feel good and that gives the ConNs even more power when it comes to destroying a victim.  It is so horrendous - -the injustice of it all.  The whole thing is so hidden and no one seems to listen, believe or care about what is happening, the damage being done, or the truth.

I have such compassion for what you are going through.

This became apparent for me whenever I was in pain or memories. I had done so much original pain work in the past that I new the way out was tears, going through the layers, and having a safe other as someone to tell the stories to.  I always say tears wash our eyes so we can see reality better. Also, she lacked real insight so I was able to finally realize that she herself did not have emotions or really suffer, in other words she was emotionally shallow and very fear based, not love based which eventually came out in our work together.

You have touched on something that is still a mystery to me but there is a certain number of people who seem to have great insight but the world turns a deaf ear to.  Many of these seem to be the the victim of Ns or personality disorders or addicts.  Many also seem to be voiceless for some bizarre but fascinating reason.  Unraveling this mystery might be very empowering for you and me and so many others.  This may be one of the major keys to giving voice to the voiceless.  I think you are touching on a very critical aspect here.

I'm holding up OK. The hit of her lies about me to my parish was last year. Then, yesterday, I looked at my parishes bulletin to see her book and website being promoted. It hurt like heck, as if my parish just brushed off her meanness and cruelty towards me as if it was nothing. It was so confusing. I have reached out to her several times in the last years, inviting her to meet with me in but she ignores me, probably under her pretend cover as how busy she is.

Here is my take on what you have written here.  Remember, it is based solely on this very limited bit of information and not on your whole experience so take it with a tiny grain of salt.  if it doesn't fit just throw it out.  But you write that you called her on her stuff.  That means that if anyone were to truly hear you her hoax would be up and her power destroyed.  Because you see the truth you actually are her enemy and a danger to her.  She doesn't care about truth with a capital T she only cares about her survival (as do we all).  Only she sees her survival as dependant on destroying your credibility.  I wager a bet that she is the child of N or other personality disordered parents.  It is no wonder that she wants to destroy your credibility but the other side of this is that your parrish still gives her credibility.

Honestly, I truly feel the pain you must have felt when you saw that.  I suspect it shot through you like an electrical bolt and left you stinging and numb.  Why would they do that?  do they think so little of you and so much of her?  It must feel that way but I suspect there is something much more mundane at work here - mundane but nepharious none-the-less.  It goes to the human actions that evoked the quotation, "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."  I am resigned to accept that in the face of wrong or evil most humans will do nothing particularly if that evil does not have a direct and unequivocal effect on them. 

[Gabben]

Wow GS, really helpful insights and ideas shared by you. They are very powerful for me in helping me through this; validating and affirming what my intuitions have known about her.

For so long my battle was wondering if I was the really sick one, the "hungry wolf" so to speak. I wondered if I was the N who was working to constantly pull the wool over peoples eyes. I have plenty of N traits, I can be envious, I am self-centered and I love attention in the form of praise and compliments, feels really good. But I also know that I am human and those traits are just normal human traits that we all have to wrestle with.

The problem in my work with her was that I could not be human, I could not admit to my failings with her. Oh at first I did, but then I caught on to her walls of hatred for weakness and her stone walled heart. I thought that what I was seeing in her could be me, was it me I wondered? I had done years in psychoanalysis where I became very familiar with my projection defense, able to spot when I was doing this, on the spot, as well as able to see my transference defense because I had used these defenses in therapy through the years to unbury myself from dysfunction. 

Anyways, it gets confusing and that is exactly what evil, forgive the harshness of that word, but it is exactly what evil does, it confuses.

This morning I awoke with the pain of powerlessness up, the agonizing way that we feel when in the face of N abuse we are powerless to fight back, all we can do is suffer the wounds. I have found my voice and I have grieved not getting to use it thoughout most of my life. Then, I have used it but like a race horse out of the gate, wild and messy, running over with foul words, not the graceful silence in suffering that I have wanted. For the most part, my even writing here is a bit of a disappointment for me in that my goal is to be able to suffer the injustices of this world in silence, just like my Hero, Christ, with forgiving love and surrendering the desires for revenge which have hurt me more than anyone, into God’s hands.

At least this morning I can feel the stab, black stab of powerlessness, the raw hurt from this and not have to lash out. At least this morning I can just allow the pain of this to wash away the buried old feelings of powerlessness that have led me into dysfunction over and over again.

Thanks for all you wrote, I am still digesting it and working to move beyond this. I am taking the message from my parish that they just do not want me there and that she is what they want. I am moving on, letting her have it all and diminishing myself, but I know that I am never diminished in God’s eyes. My faith really saves me.

[Gabben]

"I suspect it shot through you like an electrical bolt and left you stinging and numb."

Yes, it was as if a hundred knives pressed into my brain all at once. It was staggering me, I started drinking because it was so excruciating and I do not drink or struggle with addiction with alcohols as I used to. I did not drink that much, but I drank wine fast and then threw up all over the place. It was almost as if my brain and body would not tolerate or digest the reality of evil; t was so painful the pain was too much for me to bear, it was as if I needed to take the initial edge off so that I could begin to wrap my brain around the evil of it, the lack of justice and as you put so well, my parish giving her credibility reinforcing her lies and feeding her ego.

Now that I have absorbed some of this I am seeing my own envy towards her, my own feelings of being nothing, unwanted, hated and perhaps worth nothing, for what have I done, I certainly have no degrees like her, no book written, no experience in healing and helping others at the level that she has. But one thing that keeps me grounded is knowing that she is incapable of genuine love, she may have all the externals in place and many fooled by them, especially the worldly minded, so that she appears the loving saint, but she cannot love and that is a truth that is unshakable for me.

Here are some validating of what you wrote and just validating for the experiences of N's:

"Pathological narcissists succeed for a time because of the extreme resonance of their personality structure. As Samuel Vaknin writes: "Narcissists appear to be unpleasantly deliberate... They are too human, or too inhuman, or too modest, or too haughty, or too loving, or too cold, or too empathic, or too strong, or too industrious, or too casual, or too enthusiastic, or too indifferent, or too courteous, or too abrasive."17 He is an enigma, at least prior to his exposure. One can't help but reason that he's either an outstanding citizen, leader, priest, court judge, teacher, etc., or he's the most morally depraved individual you are going to meet for a long while. And very few of us expect to discover such a depth of depravity in well dressed professional adults. So we naturally conclude the former. For he is careful not to show opposite extremes to one and the same person, especially if that person is someone he needs. The majority in his immediate environment will see his "too good" side only. Should anyone no longer be needed, or should one happen to become a threat to his facade, such a one is likely to get a taste of the narcissist's vindictive nature, even one who has been a close "friend" to him for a number of years -- a narcissist's loyalty is paper thin, for he is incapable of genuinely intimate friendships18. But only the targeted victim will see his vindictive nature, or a small few. He is careful to keep this side of himself from others, for it is an inconsistency that might expose him. So adept is he at this narrowly focused persecution, in fact, that any attempt by the victim to tell another will in all probability make him (the victim) appear as if he is losing his mind."Doug McManaman




"The unrepentant excuse themselves, and motivated by an unconscious desire to be excused by others (not forgiven, which implies confession and contrition), he will readily excuse the faults and failings of others, obliging them to do likewise. Hence, the current widespread approbation of tolerance as the perfection of justice. But tolerance is not necessarily a virtue, for there is a great deal that love refuses to tolerate." Doug McManaman

[Gaining Strength]

I have plenty of N traits, I can be envious, I am self-centered and I love attention in the form of praise and compliments, feels really good. But I also know that I am human and those traits are just normal human traits that we all have to wrestle with.

These are not only human traits but ones that children experience and if not given into and fed as a toddler then we sort of get stuck with that unfulfilled need, sort of like getting stuck with the throttle on.  If parents give the loving and attention and encouragement needed then the child can learn to provide that sustenance for themselves otherwise we get stuck in that infantile need to get it all from others because our own recognition feels utterly inadequate.

For the most part, my even writing here is a bit of a disappointment for me in that my goal is to be able to suffer the injustices of this world in silence, just like my Hero, Christ, with forgiving love and surrendering the desires for revenge which have hurt me more than anyone, into God’s hands.

At the risk of posting something that is not in line with your theology I start with the suggestion that if this doesn't fit just toss it.  I find that knowing that Christ is there with me to heal those wounds it is my job to open my being to receive that.  I further remind myself that he was willing to give his life because he knew that I and all the others are human and not able to give up these resentments and longing fro revenge on our own.  What could be more difficult.  If I get there it will only be through surrender to his perfected healing and i suspect it will be incremental.

I am taking the message from my parish that they just do not want me there and that she is what they want. I am moving on, letting her have it all and diminishing myself,

Gabben - I don't think your parish can understand that they actually made a choice between you and this N.  It has to do with humanity in generals unwilliingness to see how evil some people in decent packages can be.  It is that very typical "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" coice of sticking their heads in the sand.  The conman, pathological liar, sociopath always wins in these circumstances - ALWAYS.  I do think you have little choice but to "tolerate" (not a real choice) or to leave.  But I take a LARGE issue with the last phrase that this will be "diminishing" yourself.  In fact I will argue that it is exactly the opposite that it is protecting and elevating yourself.  It is keeping you out of being reactive and it is acknowledging that YOU DESERVE better than what you are getting.  Perhaps you can trust that this is a way for a door to close because there is a door that is open for you that is a place where you will flourish.  This is not your detriment it is a painful push to make a transition that will be a great gift, a transition that you would not make if you had not experienced this wretched pain.

Yes, it was as if a hundred knives pressed into my brain all at once. It was staggering me, I started drinking because it was so excruciating and I do not drink or struggle with addiction with alcohols as I used to. I did not drink that much, but I drank wine fast and then threw up all over the place. It was almost as if my brain and body would not tolerate or digest the reality of evil; t was so painful the pain was too much for me to bear, it was as if I needed to take the initial edge off so that I could begin to wrap my brain around the evil of it, the lack of justice and as you put so well, my parish giving her credibility reinforcing her lies and feeding her ego.

I am so sorry.  How horrific.  You are describing a pain that goes so deep, that is qute simply unbearable - even to read.  I know that pain.  I have experienced it too and it is so alienating and debilitating.  My heart goes out to you and I hurt with you.  This is what I encourage you to think about.  The physical analogy is much like having been hit by a freight train.  Your psyche had been traumatized and is in shock.  You must now go through a kind of hospitalization where you are in survival.  Just as would be done for you in a hospital, the foremost need is nurturing and nutrition and gentle, kind care and sleep.  As you gain strength in the coming days or weeks continue to care for yourself.  You have been traumatized.  It is just like a physical trauma.  It is a psychological trauma and it can lead to PTSD so you must be gentle and kind and caring for your soul and not expect yourself to be up to par.  You might well go through the stages of grief as you get stronger.  Do not be surprised.  Most importantly be very kind and patient and supportive of your own self.  Know that you have been hit hard and recovery will not be instantaneous.

The information you shared from Vadkin and about "tolerance" are quite eye opening.

[Gabben]

 "If parents give the loving and attention and encouragement needed then the child can learn to provide that sustenance for themselves otherwise we get stuck in that infantile need to get it all from others because our own recognition feels utterly inadequate."

Well said. Yes, it has been a journey for me to uncover my unmet love needs that had morphed into painful dysfunction as the years went by. I can tell stories of the search and hunger in me that eventually did lead me back to the real loving source of God. But healing the layers of codependency has been a constant journey for me with inches and leaps in all directions but I can see the progress forward as well. I find my heart these days really does lean on God as my source as well as I have grieved the spirits in me, or desires in me that overreached themselves so that they no longer take over my life, leading it.


"At the risk of posting something that is not in line with your theology I start with the suggestion that if this doesn't fit just toss it.  I find that knowing that Christ is there with me to heal those wounds it is my job to open my being to receive that.  I further remind myself that he was willing to give his life because he knew that I and all the others are human and not able to give up these resentments and longing fro revenge on our own.  What could be more difficult.  If I get there it will only be through surrender to his perfected healing and i suspect it will be incremental."


This makes sense. I found comfort in reading this, especially the part about Christ being our enlightened witness, and especially an empathetic one.


"I am so sorry.  How horrific.  You are describing a pain that goes so deep, that is qute simply unbearable - even to read.  I know that pain.  I have experienced it too and it is so alienating and debilitating.  My heart goes out to you and I hurt with you.  This is what I encourage you to think about.  The physical analogy is much like having been hit by a freight train.  Your psyche had been traumatized and is in shock.  You must now go through a kind of hospitalization where you are in survival.  Just as would be done for you in a hospital, the foremost need is nurturing and nutrition and gentle, kind care and sleep.  As you gain strength in the coming days or weeks continue to care for yourself.  You have been traumatized.  It is just like a physical trauma.  It is a psychological trauma and it can lead to PTSD so you must be gentle and kind and caring for your soul and not expect yourself to be up to par.  You might well go through the stages of grief as you get stronger.  Do not be surprised.  Most importantly be very kind and patient and supportive of your own self.  Know that you have been hit hard and recovery will not be instantaneous."

The information you shared from Vadkin and about "tolerance" are quite eye opening.



Thank you so much for your validation, understanding and compassion. It really helps. I've had to heal a lot of my trauma in the last few years alone, with exception of this board and others who have helped me outside. Compassion in trauma healing is so needed, like a soothing balm in that helps the stab in our heads in a way I cannot articulate. And thank you for the reminder to nuture myself. Today, I just baked some cookies, grapefruit cream filled! Cleaned my refridge out and drove to Marin, over the Golden Gate Bridge, which is beautiful, sunny and refreshing to get out of the city. I visited with people that was the bright spot of my day. Now I am home to rest and them go spend time in prayer at my most favorite sanctuary, a little Catholic monastery in the Height and Ashbury district of SF! I am feeling better than the other day.

I think my seeing my parish as telling me goodbye is black and white thinking on my part, I really do not have the whole picture. But I know one thing, there is so much peace and hope that comes to me from leaving that place for good, for really separating myself away and putting it behind me. I feel strong in my faith and strong with my own friendships and community to support me.

Also, I really need to heal this very deeply embedded or entrenched wound that was triggered. It is a form of masochism on my part, something I have been working on for a very long time. As I always say the way out is through and you cannot heal what you cannot feel.

Thank you ((((((GS))))))

[Gaining Strength]

I know that what I need most is someone who will listen without telling me that I need to just do X, Y and Z. 
I still need to be heard. 
Each time I write something like that I feel validated by the very name of this forum.

As I was driving yesterday I was thinking about how hard it is to get people to hear and to understand.  I was thinking about it in the context of your parish and I thought about my frequent experience of describing my mother to people I know.  It does not matter if it is someone I just met or someone I and my mother have knows for decades the usual response is some form of minimization.  Many people will say it is due to her age and when I give a handful examples of the same type of behavior from 40 years ago they cannot adjust their reaction.  I have finally come to understand that it has something to do with the natuer of most humans.  It is not the way I am made so I don't understand it but I am far too familiar with it and I have come to expect it.  It does not make each and every incident less painful - actually quite the opposite - each incident actually feels more and more isolating and marks me as "other" and ever more alone.

I have a real need to "hear" as well as to be heard.
I am beyond thankful that people like you and PR will open up and share your struggles and your pain in an honest attempt to find solace and healing.  It is the very writing that connects with my own journey and provides real and helpful insights to my own plight. So I thank you Gabben, more than you can imagine.

By the way - grapefruit cream filled cookies! - I have never heard of such but can just imagine how they taste on my tongue.  Your day sounds delightful.  So glad you are taking care of yourself.

[Hopalong]

Gabben, hello!

Wow. You have been gone a while so the growth and seasoning really shows through in your voice.

I'm running late but wanted to just tell you two things that really jumped out at me as so very positive:

--your decision to leave the parish, and not let your life be focused in a place where there's so much opportunity to be repeatedly hurt. Knowing when to fold 'em.

--your naming and recognizing your own feelings of envy. I think that is huge.

--your recognizing your pain and feeling it, and in the same breath saying you trust it, that you will allow it to move through.

I feel hopeful for you too! And very happy to hear you are stepping forward into a future. The past is real, we still carry it...but this is like hearing you've chewed your way through an ankle bracelet.

bravo!

Hops

[Gabben]

It does not matter if it is someone I just met or someone I and my mother have knows for decades the usual response is some form of minimization.  Many people will say it is due to her age and when I give a handful examples of the same type of behavior from 40 years ago they cannot adjust their reaction.  I have finally come to understand that it has something to do with the natuer of most humans.  It is not the way I am made so I don't understand it but I am far too familiar with it and I have come to expect it.  It does not make each and every incident less painful - actually quite the opposite - each incident actually feels more and more isolating and marks me as "other" and ever more alone.

HI ! GS,

Minimization is a good way or word to put it. I think that the reason we, healing seekers (such as you and I), do not minimize but rather work to see things as they really were, horrific at times, may have something to do with suffering; our pain vs others who have yet to really embrace their pain.  Minimization is a defense, they do not want to hear because our words and wounds touch their wounds which they may not be ready to face or fully feel. I can relate to just thinking back to when I was still in denial of my own pains and how even hearing a baby cry was hard on me, "get that kid out of here!" I would think to myself. Now, when I hear a baby crying, after having to become my wounded baby/child again in order to heal the voicelessness that I never fully experienced as a child, I want to reach for the babies and lightly sooth and comfort them. I call that progress.

A thought that came to me is that perhaps the reason it felt isolating is because there are very few like you and myself that take the risk to be wounded; struggling, which most people do not want to even been seen as struggling which sometimes means having to face our ugly in order to heal to become whole again.

[Gabben]

--your decision to leave the parish, and not let your life be focused in a place where there's so much opportunity to be repeatedly hurt. Knowing when to fold 'em.

--your naming and recognizing your own feelings of envy. I think that is huge.

--your recognizing your pain and feeling it, and in the same breath saying you trust it, that you will allow it to move through.

Thank you Hops! I appreciate your encouragement in the form of showing me my progress. It really feels good to make it over some of those huge hurdles of internal voices of shame to face myself; it was sort of like having to walk through my own internal smoldering smelly walls, in other words, the toxic waste land of my own soul.

[river]

Hi,
I've read first post, but not whole thread, sorry.  Ths sounds important, and I so ID.  I had an N therapist and went through similar, although yours sounds way beyond the pale. 
First most important thing would be to report her, but without getting involved in any wrangling over it.  I feel we have a duty to report really dangerous practitioners,  of the sort you describe here.   

For me the trouble was not her behaviour, buy my attraction back to her, and longing because, as you say, it feels like a taste of the original and in that sense could be healing.   But for me it wasnt healing it was a repeat.  I needed the proper access to healing, it was my own character defects, or issues that kept me attracted to N types, and its at that specific deptth of my disorder I needed to work.   

Wishing you the best for this recovery.   

[Gabben]

Hi GS,

This weekend I thought more about your post on minimization. Without reading up on anything what came to me was that minimization, in addition to a defense is also a form of lack of empathy. I am guilty of this recently. I have a friend who is transgender, a women in a man's body. Not having walked in her shoes I could not understand her insides, her reality. When I looked at her I still saw man but in her heart and mind she was fully a woman and always had been. My minimization once was to refer to her as a "guy." This hurt her deeply.

Sometimes it is hard to understand others pain and in that I minimize as well as have had my pain minimized. Part of what is bringing this up for me today is the minimization I experienced as a child when four and dropped off at my aunt and uncles house who were complete strangers to me, and being told that it was "only for one year." I was four and although I did not know what a year was I knew something was very wrong, but my tears and pain were minimized.

I think it also had to do with guilt on my grandma's part when she saw my tears and pain, for it was her who dropped me off.

[Gabben]

Hi,
I've read first post, but not whole thread, sorry.  Ths sounds important, and I so ID.  I had an N therapist and went through similar, although yours sounds way beyond the pale. 
First most important thing would be to report her, but without getting involved in any wrangling over it.  I feel we have a duty to report really dangerous practitioners,  of the sort you describe here.   

For me the trouble was not her behaviour, buy my attraction back to her, and longing because, as you say, it feels like a taste of the original and in that sense could be healing.   But for me it wasnt healing it was a repeat.  I needed the proper access to healing, it was my own character defects, or issues that kept me attracted to N types, and its at that specific deptth of my disorder I needed to work.   

Wishing you the best for this recovery.   

Hi River,

I reported her a long time ago, just as you said. I was told to write out my story with her and send it to the Board of Behavioral Science. I did this,  but her response was that we were doing spiritual direction and not therapy, which I do believe now to be true but the principals and lines she crossed where still damaging to me. I let it go, just feeling good to be able to voice out my pain as well as know that at least it is on record for if and when someone else gets hurt in her care and files a complaint. I really struggled in filing it because I knew the backlash would be severe with her, it was more a leap of faith than anything for at the time I was just wanting to move on from her.

I’m not in regret of the pain that I have gone through with her for it has served to really heal me. I am frustrated with the fact of her disorder and lies. But I am powerless to do anything but let go again, and really lower my expectations of her ever coming to honesty or real love. N’s and P’s need to win, it is what they are all about, they do not play by the rules and power is their goal. They never stop until they get what they want. I am stopping, I just want peace and to be free of her and the realm that she spoils with her lies and evil.