need quick advice

[Ales2]

Yeah, its probably not a good substitute for individual treatment, I get that.  I wish I had not done the study and I will take the first out I can. Its not going to work and I probably won't get out of it what I'd hoped. So, what else is new?

Thanks for all the advice.

[Ales2]

I had a very bad day, lots of anxiety yesterday and a sleepless night. Very worried that nothing will change for me even if I stick with the medication. Can't get unstuck from this and its killing my motivation and productivity. Not sure I can get anything done at all today.

[Hopalong]

((((((Ales)))))

Anxiety is horrible and I understand it very well.
I suffered from incessant worry (still do sometimes) and disabling panic attacks for years.

I swear to you, medication was a miracle during the time I needed to learn how to self-manage the panic.

It's not the study or the Rx that are the obstacle, it's the thinking.

I know how hard it is to turn your mind in a different direction (say, pushing a locomotive off its track without help, with one arm, in the rain)...

...but please have faith it can be done. Keep trying to calm yourself.

Keep trying on, even if you can't believe in them, positive thoughts.

Chant to yourself, go for a walk and repeat something like I will abide, it is getting better, with every step.

It truly is "faking it until you make it." And it's okay.
You're rewiring your own thought channels.

love,
Hops

[Ales2]

The thing that triggered the anxiety was that I read a journal from exactly a year ago and it very plainly told me that I have learned nothing from what I went through last year and I keep repeating the same mistakes for the same reason.
1. Projects don't get finished b/c I want approval, not a completed project.
2. People who have lied to me, I give them another chance because
         a.I had a crush/got emotionally attracted to someone not at all available to me (read Dr.G article on people repeating not out of masochism, but in attempts to heal. I'm NOT healing at all) 
         b. I always choose to give others the benefit of the doubt and look for the good in others, even when that hurts myself (thats masochism)
         c. He turned out to be exactly what I thought he was. Its a year later and I still have not learned.
All this concerns me because I dont know how to rewire this part of my functioning. There really is no use in feeling better if I can't make better judgements and decisions and attract better people in the future. I keep repeating the same dead ends and wonder why nothing moves forward.

How can medication possibly help that? Therapy certainly did nothing for me in this area. I chronically choose people who disrespect me and I chronically disrespect myself, but am blind to it at the time.

[Meh]

Ales, sometimes exercise and spending time with other people in mild low stress social situations has helped me a little bit just to get a feeling like things are a little bit okay.

I hope I didn't discourage you. Taking medication or not taking is such a personal choice and it seems to be different for everybody.
But all it really does is "level you off" as they say, it changes the brain chemistry but I don't think it can change your habits or cause you to find the man of your dreams. Finding the right medication is probably not going to = the American dream. So if you are trying out medications but you are deciding whether or not they are working based on if your hopes of relationship etc have been fulfilled then maybe you are assessing the efficacy of the medication on wrong criteria?

I think you need to decide if your medication is working based on simple things like are you sleeping better and do you have more energy..you know stuff like that.

You know if this doesnt make sense or doesnt help just ignore my comments.

[sKePTiKal]

Wanna know a secret Ales?

I've got 16 journals that all pretty much say the same thing; written since 2004... what's that 7 years? And yes, I'm still struggling with self-sabotage and self-harm (including kicking myself - judging myself too harshly, and expecting way more out of myself than is reasonable for a human being). I still get disappointed in people that I trust... sometimes it's bad; sometimes it's a forgivable mistake but still makes me more wary - or tired & depressed about the human condition. At the moment, I'm not communicating real well with hubs... and feel pretty emotionally needy... it's coming out in physical ailments too... and I don't have a clue where THIS came from or what to do about it. Maybe it's a new inner self strategy to sabotage myself again...

... or maybe it's simply "growing pains"... emotional ones... as I get to used to and assimilate that 7 years worth of multiple (yet redundant) <sarcasm> "brilliant flashes of insight" </sarcasm> into my own dysfunctional state of being, that I came to in all those journals.

But hey! THAT'S ME... not YOU. Point being, there is no "normal" timeframe... no yardstick... no shoulds... about where you get to, when, in the recovery from abuse process. It's just so unfair and not really possible to compare ourselves to other people or some concept of "normal", for a lot of reasons. Because it takes a long time to completely rewire one's brain - and the method of rewiring is repetition - I believe (you don't have to) that's one of the reasons we "repeat" experiences in the healing process. The other reason for repeating experiences, that I'm currently exploring, is that we're "waking up" our emotions each time. Feeling them more and feeling different things. Some of those things are scary; many are good. Feeling feelings is a GOOD thing; it's how humans are designed to be... and I am just wacky enough to include all the negative feelings, too. Which leads me to my theory... (please bear with me; I'm "chatty" and in professor-mode this a.m.)...

Emotional pain, anxiety, depression (some of the time), anger, despair, self-pity, and what I'll call just general emotional agony and frustration... are all symptoms of a conflict in our being that grew in response to abusive FOOs in our development years. Sure, symptoms can be severe and require medical (Rx) intervention. That's not bad in and of itself. Each to his/her own, in their own needs and present moments. Like Hops has said... it can help one get to "another place" - another frame of mind - in which to address and deal with things more productively. But all it does is treat the symptoms, IMO, so that one can "carry on". It does NOT deal with or change the original source of the problem. It may, for some people, help them get to that frame of mind where they CAN begin to address the source of the problem.

I'm one who has bizarre reactions to drugs, so that wasn't an option for me. I knew and had to persuade the people trying to help me (MD, T) that it would only make things more complex, confusing, and essentially postpone doing what I needed to do - get to the source of why I was in this battle with myself and finally understand why I am this way... and be able to figure what in the world I could do about it. And perhaps making this choice, only made things harder on myself - it was certainly more painful - but looking back now, from this perspective, I see that being allowed to FEEL all my pain... all those awful emotions... was my "way out". To simply HEAR myself wail and rant and bitch and... well, HEAR MY SELF. To know "who I am". It was exactly what I was fighting to NOT do - resisting by clinging to avoidance of my pain and agony... trying to run away from it before I even knew what "it" was... so of course I was over-anxious... exhausted... because:

everywhere I went there "it" was.

I am better than I was. I have some control over my need to harm myself, kick myself, or even change my routines and habits. It's not a lot of control and I still have to put forth effort, focus, and concentration. I have to lecture myself sternly... to not treat myself exactly the way my mom did. I even woke hubs up the other night - talking in my sleep - while I was dreaming I was screaming at myself in a last-straw rage. All of this is part of the growth, development and re-wiring process. Even that dream was a positive development because I am angry with myself and I might as well SAY so and express the emotion and really FEEL it -- otherwise how will it ever change, diminish, or be let go??

Avoiding FEELING (anything & everything) is my problem... it was my response to my particular set of warped, sick, perverse family mind-games and abuse. And this caused the anxiety and depression symptoms I had; one feels even when one is trying not to (no, those feelings are not all gone... 'coz guess what? Even "normal" folk experience these feelings in response to real-life situations. Not to be confused with feeling those "symptoms" for no rational reason or way out of proportion to reality.) It also caused a form a paralysis in my life; where all this bad stuff happened to me and I couldn't do anything about it. I didn't know what to do about it... because I didn't know what I wanted; because I kept avoiding my feelings - including the good ones: fun, happy, want... need.

Well, hell. Enough about me and where I've been on the path! I wanted to post something yesterday because I HEARD the feelings in what you wrote, real clearly, Ales. And I heard you asking to be shown the way out, too. And I felt I wanted to reach out to you and pull you right out of that place to someplace a little more comfortable. But I wasn't sure I could explain at least my way out, clearly enough or that it was a good fit for you. If it's not - just move on and ignore what I wrote.

What I wanted to tell you (and all the rest is back story masquerading as preamble)... is that you need to cut yourself a break. If you're having a day when you're just not up to anything - THAT'S OK. Curl up on the couch and read a book or watch soaps or movies all day. Sometimes, all that frantic "doing" is only digging the exhaustion, frustration and anxiety hole deeper. Do whatever you FEEL like doing... go back to bed and pull the covers over your head... stay in your jammies all day and don't answer the door or the phone. Do whatever works for you to rest, relax, feel cozy and safe and taken care of. We are allowed to take a time-out from this work... we are allowed to take a whole day (or live large & take two days!) off... from all this... to be Scarlett O'Hara and say: "I'll think about this tomorrow..."

You are allowed to be... whatever you are... right this minute and if you're exasperated with it all, then take some time off from trying to fix it! Kick all the feelings of guilt, or shoulds, or "other people" to the curb with a resounding F-you! Anxiety about getting too comfy shows up? Set an alarm clock for as long a time ahead as you want or can, given your life obligations... and make a deal with yourself, that you'll re-assess where you are THEN, do what you have to do and if you need more time off - schedule it.

You are allowed to do this because it's called taking care of yourself. You will probably feel some things while you do this. Just feel them, OK? Then let it drift off... distract yourself... don't think about the feeling. Cry if you feel like it. Beat pillows if you feel angry. Yell at the tv... cheer... laugh... and give your brain a rest. Tomorrow will be better. Just hear your self. Write some more if you feel like it... see if the tone is different today.

It's OK, it's all right - even if it doesn't FEEL like it right now. You're doing all the right things and going in the right direction.

JEEZ... anyone wanna soapbox??? (sorry that was so long Ales... and I really hope it helps a little.)

[Ales2]

Thank you both for your posts and insight. It was very helpful!

I went in for my check up today and as it turns out, the bad day last week was a PMS day, although my thoughts on the matter are the same, my anxiety level decreased over the week and I had a decent weekend. My check today indicates that the medication is working.

The things that still concern me are:

1.There is no substitute for family. The holidays are coming up and I might be alone again this year. Going to friends or events on the actual holidays makes me feel worse, so I avoid that. Ever year I say I will meet my match and well, 43 single christmases and no such luck. My dream of having my own family is fading very quickly. 

2. Still dont know how to attract different bosses or jobs or relationships, so keep repeating same dead ends. Not sure how this can or ever will change.

3. Productivity on the job search and writing is still not happening. This HAS to change if I am going to get anywhere, but #2 keeps paralyzing me.

Thats about it. I was skeptical that the medication would work, since I think its external stuff, not my brain chemistry, that is making me depressed. My last concern is:

4. I'll get relief from depression, but it will relapse by the holidays or worse, I will have a meltdown. I also have some concern that I only have four weeks left on medication, and I hope they can help me find another resource for medication, if I still need it,  when the study ends.

Thats it for now. Sorry I am not responding much to other people's posts these days, I'm just trying to focus on myself and keep my head up. All the best to everyone.

[Hopalong]

As hard as that week was, Ales...

you hung in.

That's no small thing.

Courage.

(I know what you mean--I have to begin the anti-holiday battle soon too.)

love,
Hops

[Ales2]

Thanks Hops.

The study coordinator was trying to get me to see that being NC was a success and requires courage, however I view it as a failure - in the sense of not getting along well with others.  It causes difficulty for me when others are quick to judge, suggesting that I am the sole problem and not acknowledging any accountability on her part. It should also be noted that in my case, NC is not the result of something that happened many years ago and I've just not been able to forgive, but a continuing, present day dysfunction and verbal abuse that continues to be destructive.

[Ales2]

One of the weird paradoxes of anti-d's is that everyone tells us happiness or wellbeing is on the inside.  Taking medication seems to be seeking an outside source to change what is inside.  I cant quite wrap my head around that. Feels like I'm becoming nothing more than a drug addict, trying to medicate away the pain. Also, I wanted to ask the depression study coordinator if people who believe that external factors make them happy or well, are not likely to be helped from anti-d'd because they dont acknowledge the inner wellbeing?

I guess I will find out.

[Hopalong]

Hi Ales,

I think depression is multi-facted, not as simple as "internal" or "external".
It can be "endogenous" or "exogenous" or a combo. It has causes including:
--stress
--life events
--genetic predisposition
--biochemical imbalance (which the ADs address)
--nutritional status
--ways of thinking/beliefs

Right? So the spiritual or thinking sides of it, which would be internal states, are just part of it.

I think of ADs as a supplement and an aid, while one works to manage and change the things one can, which would include working on attitude, thinking, perhaps sprituality if the term suits.

I don't see a contradiction...or there isn't one for me.
And I'm wary of "everyone tells us" -- you know?

I think what matters most is what you tell you. That's literally you programming yourself with positive and rationally hopeful self-talk...or on the other hand, negative or hopeless self-talk...

(It's what my work is, anyway. Fixing my stinking thinking...such a labor. Being vigilant about what I say to myself....But when I get a 'shift' -- I get it!)

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

When it comes to family, we don't have the power to choose... what's the old kid saying?? ... "but you can pick your friends" (or nose! depending on which version we grew up with). We really don't have to like them, even if we remain associated with them. Nowhere is it written that we have to like people who are mean to us repeatedly... or neglect us... or only know we exist when they want to use us.

When the situation is unrelated people, we have a lot more power; there's no mysterious "attraction" about it. Just as we are interviewed for a job... it's up to us, to interview the people and place we might be interested in working - because you're going to spend a lot of time there! You're allowed to have a checklist of things you're looking for too. And boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable. There really is such a thing as a "good fit" in groups of people. A "click" of understanding between two people, a common frequency of wavelength. And one can do a lot to actually create that, by understanding what the company needs from someone in the position that is interviewed for and "matching" the expectations of the interviewer with someone you know is true of yourself. Don't expect the company to print that in the job description! Even the supervisor may not really know what he/she really needs from an employee in that specific position. Observation of the place of business, repeated and lengthy and in-depth conversations are needed to come to understand what those needs are... so in reality, it's hard to know this before actually working there. It helps if one knows exactly, precisely what one is looking for. If you like a collaborative, team-oriented environment look for people talking together in the building. That kind of thing. And it's perfectly OK to work somewhere for a paycheck - and put up with the "crap" and move on in a while. You're allowed to try to find what works best for you.

I'm troubled tho by the subtext of what you wrote - the 4 numbered items - so, I have to ask you Ales... even tho I feel it's impertinant, none of my business and suspect you'll feel it's personal, so you don't have to answer though I hope you'll at least consider the possibility...

that somehow you're blaming yourself for all that is missing in your life. That there's something wrong with you, because your family makes impossible to have a normal relationship with them. That there is some inherent thing - depression, personality, luck, whatever - that you just can't quite put your finger on - that is "all your fault".

That is what I heard you saying - not in so many words - in what you wrote... those 4 numbered items. Maybe I misheard, or heard my own experience instead and if so I apologize and please just toss this in the trashbin. If there is any truth in my perception of what you were really saying... then also consider that many times, many of us who grew up with these warped parents are also programmed to blame ourselves whenever anything isn't absolutely, over-the-top, perfect with us and our lives. As a consequence, we develop these patterns in our lives of driving ourselves beyond reason and exhaustion looking for the "perfect" that gains us entry into the cherished, beloved, supported and protected status of self that should've been given us as children. It's a crap snowball that just gets bigger over time and through repetition. This can show up in a lot different ways, too. Paralysis... that inability to get up and do what needs to be done that so resembles depression. Or frantic running around doing things that are completely irrelevant to the real task waiting to be done (busywork, to distract ourselves). Or something else... some other kind of "coping" mechanism to bandaid our discomfort and hurt while trying to carry on.

I also heard that you might be open to fixing something internal (along with the externals) to de-program this reflex in yourself. I think that's a big positive for you to start exploring. So, one "trick" that works sometimes, is to learn to recognize when you're blaming yourself, putting yourself down, or saying you're not worthy of what you want. We do this in those lightning fast thoughts that are dragging around criticism, judgement, and condemnation -- blame. We can learn to talk back to those thoughts. Tell 'em off! Tell that thought - "YOU DON"T KNOW ME" - and stop the repetition in your head, until you begin to feel that those thoughts were unfair... and you didn't deserve that. Then, start your own cheering section and pat yourself on the back for submitting that resume today... for chatting with and smiling at a stranger in a checkout line... and... doing all those things that you know are going to help you get to what it is you want from life. Even if it comes to nothing "this time"... it's practice. Even if you make an embarrassing mistake... it's practice and you're learning... to be you from a different "feeling place" about yourself.

And you're completely free to disown any of the unwanted "programming" that was brainwashed into your feelings about yourself. It's NOT like DNA (oh... and the science nerds are even learning to alter DNA). Thought patterns do have the power to wreck and sabotage our own internal wills to live and thrive in well-being. We can hand them back to the people who never even gave us a chance because of who THEY were. And this does work - but it's more like mastering an art that takes time and needs constant tweaking... nurturing... to flower. And over that time, one hits this abstract "plateau" on the learning curve - where some skills become automatic, they don't take conscious awareness and concentration to execute. Just like you don't have to spell out every word that you type... you just "know" to do this. Once you hit the plateau - then you start learning faster & faster & deeper - your momentum picks up... your normal energy levels return... and just about "everything" looks unquestionably - but also undefinably - different.

Like the difference of 256 shades in a grayscale photo - and 16 million color pixels.

OH... and hon, it's also not your fault that this might not work for you or that you don't already know how to do this (maybe you do & I'm just babbling, too). There ARE other ways through the legacy of "us" to a new, better "us".

[Ales2]

OK, well it appears that the medication is not at all working. I am just as depressed and apathetic as I have been even more so.  Its just not working. It looked like I had some improvement but it really wasnt more than a couple of good days where I felt better but nothing, not even my productivity changed. If my productivity does not change I cannot expect anything to get better at all. Simple as that. 

[Hopalong]

Got any exercise going, Ales?

I have to literally force/demand/cajole/out the old sweats on the floor in front of the toilet so they're the first thing I encounter in the morning, then go-quickly-so-I-don't-wake-up-until-I'm-halfway-down-the-sidewalk...to get myself to go for a walk in the morning.

BUT.

Every single day I do do it -- less depression.

xo
Hops

[Ales2]

Hi Hops - I used to run 6 miles in the morning before work and kept up the routine of working out in the morning. But now its worse, I have no appetite and have insomnia that robs me of the sleep I need to be able to exercise. I've probably walked 5 days out of the last 14.  Everyone seems to think running helps depression, but it has not worked for me. If I am depressed, the running doesnt help. When I feel better I also exercise better and at a better intensity.

But thanks for that thought.