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need quick advice

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Hopalong:
Hi Ales,

I think depression is multi-facted, not as simple as "internal" or "external".
It can be "endogenous" or "exogenous" or a combo. It has causes including:
--stress
--life events
--genetic predisposition
--biochemical imbalance (which the ADs address)
--nutritional status
--ways of thinking/beliefs

Right? So the spiritual or thinking sides of it, which would be internal states, are just part of it.

I think of ADs as a supplement and an aid, while one works to manage and change the things one can, which would include working on attitude, thinking, perhaps sprituality if the term suits.

I don't see a contradiction...or there isn't one for me.
And I'm wary of "everyone tells us" -- you know?

I think what matters most is what you tell you. That's literally you programming yourself with positive and rationally hopeful self-talk...or on the other hand, negative or hopeless self-talk...

(It's what my work is, anyway. Fixing my stinking thinking...such a labor. Being vigilant about what I say to myself....But when I get a 'shift' -- I get it!)

Hops

sKePTiKal:
When it comes to family, we don't have the power to choose... what's the old kid saying?? ... "but you can pick your friends" (or nose! depending on which version we grew up with). We really don't have to like them, even if we remain associated with them. Nowhere is it written that we have to like people who are mean to us repeatedly... or neglect us... or only know we exist when they want to use us.

When the situation is unrelated people, we have a lot more power; there's no mysterious "attraction" about it. Just as we are interviewed for a job... it's up to us, to interview the people and place we might be interested in working - because you're going to spend a lot of time there! You're allowed to have a checklist of things you're looking for too. And boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable. There really is such a thing as a "good fit" in groups of people. A "click" of understanding between two people, a common frequency of wavelength. And one can do a lot to actually create that, by understanding what the company needs from someone in the position that is interviewed for and "matching" the expectations of the interviewer with someone you know is true of yourself. Don't expect the company to print that in the job description! Even the supervisor may not really know what he/she really needs from an employee in that specific position. Observation of the place of business, repeated and lengthy and in-depth conversations are needed to come to understand what those needs are... so in reality, it's hard to know this before actually working there. It helps if one knows exactly, precisely what one is looking for. If you like a collaborative, team-oriented environment look for people talking together in the building. That kind of thing. And it's perfectly OK to work somewhere for a paycheck - and put up with the "crap" and move on in a while. You're allowed to try to find what works best for you.

I'm troubled tho by the subtext of what you wrote - the 4 numbered items - so, I have to ask you Ales... even tho I feel it's impertinant, none of my business and suspect you'll feel it's personal, so you don't have to answer though I hope you'll at least consider the possibility...

that somehow you're blaming yourself for all that is missing in your life. That there's something wrong with you, because your family makes impossible to have a normal relationship with them. That there is some inherent thing - depression, personality, luck, whatever - that you just can't quite put your finger on - that is "all your fault".

That is what I heard you saying - not in so many words - in what you wrote... those 4 numbered items. Maybe I misheard, or heard my own experience instead and if so I apologize and please just toss this in the trashbin. If there is any truth in my perception of what you were really saying... then also consider that many times, many of us who grew up with these warped parents are also programmed to blame ourselves whenever anything isn't absolutely, over-the-top, perfect with us and our lives. As a consequence, we develop these patterns in our lives of driving ourselves beyond reason and exhaustion looking for the "perfect" that gains us entry into the cherished, beloved, supported and protected status of self that should've been given us as children. It's a crap snowball that just gets bigger over time and through repetition. This can show up in a lot different ways, too. Paralysis... that inability to get up and do what needs to be done that so resembles depression. Or frantic running around doing things that are completely irrelevant to the real task waiting to be done (busywork, to distract ourselves). Or something else... some other kind of "coping" mechanism to bandaid our discomfort and hurt while trying to carry on.

I also heard that you might be open to fixing something internal (along with the externals) to de-program this reflex in yourself. I think that's a big positive for you to start exploring. So, one "trick" that works sometimes, is to learn to recognize when you're blaming yourself, putting yourself down, or saying you're not worthy of what you want. We do this in those lightning fast thoughts that are dragging around criticism, judgement, and condemnation -- blame. We can learn to talk back to those thoughts. Tell 'em off! Tell that thought - "YOU DON"T KNOW ME" - and stop the repetition in your head, until you begin to feel that those thoughts were unfair... and you didn't deserve that. Then, start your own cheering section and pat yourself on the back for submitting that resume today... for chatting with and smiling at a stranger in a checkout line... and... doing all those things that you know are going to help you get to what it is you want from life. Even if it comes to nothing "this time"... it's practice. Even if you make an embarrassing mistake... it's practice and you're learning... to be you from a different "feeling place" about yourself.

And you're completely free to disown any of the unwanted "programming" that was brainwashed into your feelings about yourself. It's NOT like DNA (oh... and the science nerds are even learning to alter DNA). Thought patterns do have the power to wreck and sabotage our own internal wills to live and thrive in well-being. We can hand them back to the people who never even gave us a chance because of who THEY were. And this does work - but it's more like mastering an art that takes time and needs constant tweaking... nurturing... to flower. And over that time, one hits this abstract "plateau" on the learning curve - where some skills become automatic, they don't take conscious awareness and concentration to execute. Just like you don't have to spell out every word that you type... you just "know" to do this. Once you hit the plateau - then you start learning faster & faster & deeper - your momentum picks up... your normal energy levels return... and just about "everything" looks unquestionably - but also undefinably - different.

Like the difference of 256 shades in a grayscale photo - and 16 million color pixels.

OH... and hon, it's also not your fault that this might not work for you or that you don't already know how to do this (maybe you do & I'm just babbling, too). There ARE other ways through the legacy of "us" to a new, better "us".

Ales2:
OK, well it appears that the medication is not at all working. I am just as depressed and apathetic as I have been even more so.  Its just not working. It looked like I had some improvement but it really wasnt more than a couple of good days where I felt better but nothing, not even my productivity changed. If my productivity does not change I cannot expect anything to get better at all. Simple as that. 

Hopalong:
Got any exercise going, Ales?

I have to literally force/demand/cajole/out the old sweats on the floor in front of the toilet so they're the first thing I encounter in the morning, then go-quickly-so-I-don't-wake-up-until-I'm-halfway-down-the-sidewalk...to get myself to go for a walk in the morning.

BUT.

Every single day I do do it -- less depression.

xo
Hops

Ales2:
Hi Hops - I used to run 6 miles in the morning before work and kept up the routine of working out in the morning. But now its worse, I have no appetite and have insomnia that robs me of the sleep I need to be able to exercise. I've probably walked 5 days out of the last 14.  Everyone seems to think running helps depression, but it has not worked for me. If I am depressed, the running doesnt help. When I feel better I also exercise better and at a better intensity.

But thanks for that thought.

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