Thanksgiving?

[KayZee]

Just wondering how everyone is spending thanksgiving?...And if anybody who plans on visiting with Ns needs moral support?

DH and I are driving up to see NM and enabling/Co-N D.  Basically, we feel compelled to spend Thanksgiving with them because we are ducking out of Xmas, spending it in our own house with my husband's side of the family (a triumph). 

My stomach is usually knotted with anxiety around this time of year, but I feel oddly calm for the moment (perhaps this will change as Wednesday nears).  Am going to do my damndest to maintain some emotional distance. 

Am pretty sure the visit will play out like this: NM criticizing my clothes, appearance, parenting; Co-N D ignoring me, talking over me at every available opportunity, then getting slurringly drunk.  Going to try, as always, to let it all roll off my back.  I have no expectations for a pleasant holiday nor any feelings of parental love, fellow-feeling or acceptance.  NM will do everything she can to make us feel un-at-home, implicitly forbid us from using the refrigerator, etc.

Pretty much going in with this one boundary: Don't mess with my kids.  Don't call my 2-year-old daughter a "brat" (I've called out NM on this before and she gets this evil smile saying, "Why not?  Why not?"  Try: Because it's name calling.  Because it's bullying and weird.)  Don't pretend that you're keeping an eye on my daughter and then "accidentally" let her get hurt or lost.  (NM did this the last time she visited with us.  Found DD hundreds of yards away from the house, minutes from being lost in some very dangerous craggy woods.)  Don't change her clothes without asking.  Co-N D: Don't lay down for a nap with my daughter after I've told you not to.  This is makes you look like a pedophile whether you are or not.  Is this really too much to ask?  God, I would love to go NC.

As for those of you who are NC, do you still struggle with this time of year and the memories it evokes?  Do you miss the idea of family, even if the family reality was always a bloody nightmare?

Just wondering...
Hope you all have a wonderful holiday.
Kay x

[Guest]

Hi Kay

I hardly celebrate any occasions (we don't have kids). Many moons ago I used to visit each of my parents at their homes around Christmas time, on my own. They didn't visit me at all, apart from my graduation day, until I bought my own home aged 30. Then I got a few visits, on their terms, always disruptive, always all about them. Eventually I stopped visiting them so much and now I don't see any FOO. These festive times used to make me feel as though if I didn't turn up, people wouldn't love me, I suppose. Well, it doesn't matter what you do, they don't change.

Wondering Kay, why you want to subject yourself, H and kids to NM anyway? I mean, if you don't want to, simply don't do it. If you have good reasons for seeing her, then remind yourself of those reasons all the time you're there and stick to your rules. Otherwise, I'd lie and say I'm ill, I can't make it, I'm staying at home. Or going away for a retreat with my family. I'm having a breakdown/crisis which has nothing to do with them and they can kindly leave me the hell alone. You don't have to go NC to look after yourself and your family first. Just be very 'selfish' and do what you want to do. And don't tell them any more than those basics. So what if they think x, y and z? They'll only worry about themselves...

Anyway, do I miss family...I miss the family I didn't have, once in a while, being unrealistic and whimsical. I don't miss the ones I had. I'm very lucky to be able to do pretty much what I want to at this time of year. That's worth more than fantasies! Ah the freedom.

[KayZee]

Freshwater,

Thank you so much for the reality check. 

Wondering Kay, why you want to subject yourself, H and kids to NM anyway? I mean, if you don't want to, simply don't do it.

It's nice to hear someone say, "You don't have to.  It's okay if you don't want to." 

It's easy to feel societal pressure around this time of year.  It's not really a socially acceptable thing to admit "I don't like my family.  I don't want to see them."

I guess you could say there are a few things that keep me going back:

- I never had any real relationship with my grandparents or other extended family growing up (NM didn't get along with them and felt jealous of any affinity I felt for my aunt.)  Anyway, this was sort of confusing to me as a kid?  Also, my NM and Co-N D used to say horrible things about my NGM in front of me from a very young age.  As a result, I was secretly terrified of her, absorbed their anger for her, etc.  I guess I've wanted to avoid repeating that pattern with my own kids.  I didn't want to have to explain to my own young children why they don't know their grandparents.  I worry that if I went NC, my kids would later think this was selfish of me?

- DH still really likes my Co-N D and visa versa.  I really don't want to deprive my husband of this relationship.  My NM has been so horrible to DH, I feel like he deserves some in-law love.

- Stockholm Syndrome/Guilt.  I worry that NM and Co-N D will be "lonely" (without anyone to emotionally prop them up) or "bored" (without anyone to look down their noses at or bully).  Other relatives hate my NM & Co-N D too much to celebrate with them anymore.  GC sister always bails on them at the holidays, yet she remains the GC.  How does that work?  Also worry about alcoholic, Co-N D who NM fully terrorizes now.  He's pretty cold to me/dismissive of me these days, but I worry that he'd hurt himself if I turned my back on them both.

- To prove I'm not the monster NM portrays me as to the rest of the family.  She's had such a smear campaign against me in recent years.  I guess I think if I keep going through the motions, keep showing up for holidays and calling on Sundays etc, it will prove (even just to myself) that I am not the heartless, crazy one.

If this sounds pretty bleak, it is.  But somehow I find the strength to go through the motions of the hollow, empty, one-sided "relationship" I have with NM.  I will cut it off in an instant if she ever goes after my children (she knows well enough to leave DH alone at this point).  I guess I'm just not ready to go NC.  Although I dream of it.  Literally, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night thinking: I want to be free of them.  I just want to be free.  There's no escape.  There's no escape.  There's no escape.

Anyway, sorry for the heaviness.  And all the personal detail.

I'm so glad for your freedom Freshwater.  That's definitely something to be thankful for!  You're an inspiration.  Thanks for the insight.

Kay x

[BonesMS]

I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do on Thanksgiving.  With the NWombdonor dead, and the smear campaign she started years ago still going on, I've come to realize that no matter how hard I try to twist myself into a pretzel to earn my worth and win their approval, it will NEVER make a lick of difference!  They believed everything she smeared on me and attempted to continue the verbal and emotional abuse after the NQueen !@#$ died.  They stopped short of physical abuse after I told them I WILL call the cops if they EVER attempted a home invasion in order to beat me into submission as the family slave!  (They had threatened to send the NGCB to my home to give me a beating because I DARED say NO to an unreasonable demand.)  After that, any and all contact became NC.

I still grieve for the family I NEVER had.  At times, the thought re-emerges that maybe my birth was a mistake, just like the Queen NWombdonor decreed.  (She had told me, at one point, that she always wanted to abort me and wished I were dead.  She announced, at the same time, that the NGCB was the ONLY child she ever wanted.  She wasn't angry...just stated it in a businesslike tone.)

I HATE THE HOLIDAYS!

Bones

[sKePTiKal]

It's not really a socially acceptable thing to admit "I don't like my family.  I don't want to see them."

Perhaps you simply think "other people" think it's not socially acceptable? You'd be surprised how many people would rather stay home in their jammies and be slugs the whole day. Even those with fairly normal families may not look forward to these "deals" - for all kinds of reasons. My SIL has 4 boys - I can predict that there will be at least one time-out; one fight that results in something broken or tears; and the parents won't be able to finish more than one sentence at a time, for yelling at one or the other boy. When they're here, my dog & hubs is a nervous wreck from trying to herd them every second... and I'm a nervous wreck trying to calm both of them down. Happy times.

The image of happy family at the holidays is - I believe - simply a marketing image; an ideal that almost never happens in reality. Try Elvis Costello's "The St. Stephen's Day Massacre" for another take on holiday family gatherings! It's fun.

Hubs and I have reservations at a fav restaurant for an interesting buffet. Haven't been invited out - rest of the family has other plans (my kids grew up with 4 sets of grandparents, so they know the drill of taking "turns" of where the go for holidays) and if I can pry hubs away from the football games & his normal nap - we'll play video games all day long.

[JustKathy]

I HATE THE HOLIDAYS!

Yes!!!! So do I Bones.

First of all, I need to say hello to everyone (familiar faces and new ones). I haven't been here in many months. Marital problems on top of a long distance move has kept me away, but that dreaded time of year is upon us, and I need to get back to posting here to help save my sanity during the upcoming months. What should be the happiest time of the year is a living hell for children of N's.

As for Thanksgiving, I'm taking a very bold step this year. When we moved last month we unplugged the phone and told absolutely no one in the family that we had moved. I basically fled. I've decided to go NC with the entire dysfunctional FOO. When my father calls me on Thanksgiving with his usual worship of my brother (the GC) and the same tired story about how my mother is dying of cancer and has only "four weeks to live," well, he's going to get a disconnected number. Anyone who is Internet savvy can easily Google me and find my new address, but I don't know if they'll put the effort into it. It will be interesting to see what happens when NM mails her annual box of Christmas insult gifts, because it won't be deliverable at the address they have. I'm hoping to have a completely peaceful holiday with NO contact from any of them. We'll see how it goes.

And for those of you who remember me, my mother is now entering her fourth year of terminal cancer and "four weeks to live." Apparently the family is getting sick of her drama, because I'm seeing her posting on message boards around the Net, telling anyone who will listen that she's dying of cancer. I hate to say this, but I wish she were. Still convinced that she's faking it though.

[JustKathy]

The image of happy family at the holidays is - I believe - simply a marketing image

Totally agree with that assessment. I know a LOT of people who dread family get-togethers, being forced to fly cross country in bad weather only to be insulted by their in-laws, bicker over the seating arrangements, argue over the dinner menu. IMO the perfectly wonderful traditional Christmas only exists on Hallmark cards and television commercials. Certainly, those of us with Ns in our lives experience a special kind of torment, but I think it's still a stressful time for "normal" people as well.

[teartracks]

In my life holidays are nonevents. They are days just like other days.  If I end up doing something memorable on 'holidays', great.  If I stay at home and do nothing, great.  When my children were young and when my grandchildren were young we did Christmas and Thanksgiving.  

On Thanksgiving, as a community outreach (no evangelizing or proselytizing, just a great meal), my church turns the sanctuary/gymnasium into a restaurant, linen tablecloths and everything where they serve a full course turkey dinner free to anyone who wishes to come.   I've invited all my family members (and anyone they wish to bring) to gather there where we can enjoy a wonderful meal together.  They may come.  They may not.  Either way, it's no insult to me because after all we are a twenty first century family with all the 'trimmings' like four grandparents, two mom's/dads along with some who live far away.  We have our share of dysfunction to boot. 

It's projected that just shy of 2000 people will partake.  I plan on being a server/waitress except when I eat with whatever family shows up.  That makes Thanksgiving a memorable event for me this year  .

Happy 'holidays' to all.

tt

[sKePTiKal]

AH! tt reminded me...

this year, we've been invited to the Tarheel family's (hubs' relatives) annual Christmas get-together. The price of entry is food for their local assistance group. No presents - just a chance to talk, eat & raise a donation. I rather like the idea of re-purposing these family get-togethers, for a good cause. And it also seems a good way to transform all the bad associations of the FOO version of holidays to something way better.

Kathy! Long time no see! (though I've wondered how you were doing...) I'll keep reading.

[BonesMS]

I HATE THE HOLIDAYS!

Yes!!!! So do I Bones.

First of all, I need to say hello to everyone (familiar faces and new ones). I haven't been here in many months. Marital problems on top of a long distance move has kept me away, but that dreaded time of year is upon us, and I need to get back to posting here to help save my sanity during the upcoming months. What should be the happiest time of the year is a living hell for children of N's.

As for Thanksgiving, I'm taking a very bold step this year. When we moved last month we unplugged the phone and told absolutely no one in the family that we had moved. I basically fled. I've decided to go NC with the entire dysfunctional FOO. When my father calls me on Thanksgiving with his usual worship of my brother (the GC) and the same tired story about how my mother is dying of cancer and has only "four weeks to live," well, he's going to get a disconnected number. Anyone who is Internet savvy can easily Google me and find my new address, but I don't know if they'll put the effort into it. It will be interesting to see what happens when NM mails her annual box of Christmas insult gifts, because it won't be deliverable at the address they have. I'm hoping to have a completely peaceful holiday with NO contact from any of them. We'll see how it goes.

And for those of you who remember me, my mother is now entering her fourth year of terminal cancer and "four weeks to live." Apparently the family is getting sick of her drama, because I'm seeing her posting on message boards around the Net, telling anyone who will listen that she's dying of cancer. I hate to say this, but I wish she were. Still convinced that she's faking it though.

Hi, Kathy, and thanks!

Good for you!!!

I don't blame you!!!

Bones

[Hopalong]

Welcome back, Kathy.
I'm really sorry to hear about all you're going through...
but glad you're telling it.

love,
Hops

[Hopalong]

((((((Bones))))))))

Your birth was not a mistake.
Your birth was as beautiful an event as any birth ever was, in the whole world, and always will be.

It's her motherhood that was ugly.  Not you.

And even though the two truths seem contradictory, it is the way of it in nature sometimes.
Some terrible thing or terrible power will be, like a volcano, and the lava that flows from it is beautiful...

Your imagination is beautiful, your mind and heart are beautiful, your life is beautiful.

She was the way nature made her...

Nature doesn't really make mistakes, but it does make cruelties.

You love yourself, Bones. Holidays and all.
Just keep on talking nice to yourself...no more cruelty.

You don't deserve it (and never did).

xo
Hops

[KayZee]

I agree, sweet Bones.

Your NM was the mistake.  And, even more importantly, she was mistaken.  In action and perception, thought and deed.

You did not deserve the way she treated you.  Her ill-treatment was not a reflection of you.  She was incapable of seeing you for the person you are.  And she missed out.  Because you're wonderful, thoughtful, smart, funny.  Whatever she thought she saw in you was just a projection of the qualities she despised in herself.

We're here now, regardless of our NParents intentions.  And even if we were "planned," our NMs certainly didn't plan on us having our own desires, needs, feelings, perceptions!  (How inconvenient for them! )  Our lives our ours.  Our feelings are valid.  And we control our destinies. 

I think AA's one-day-at-a-time slogan applies to DONM recovery too.  Sometimes, I think, I'll just focus on being kind and patient with myself today.  Or the rest of the day.  Or for the next few hours.  In tough times, it's sometimes easier to set short-term goals than it is to think in big terms like "my life," "the rest of my life," etc. 

Other times, when I realize I am speaking to myself in my NM's nasty, belittling voice, I kind of privately think Get out NM! and envision her flying out of my body exorcism-style.  This probably sounds a little schizo.  But visualizations can be powerful.

Here's hoping everyone's burden gets a little lighter every day.
Will be thankful this Thanksgiving for everyone on this board,
Kay x

[BonesMS]

((((((Bones))))))))

Your birth was not a mistake.
Your birth was as beautiful an event as any birth ever was, in the whole world, and always will be.

It's her motherhood that was ugly.  Not you.

And even though the two truths seem contradictory, it is the way of it in nature sometimes.
Some terrible thing or terrible power will be, like a volcano, and the lava that flows from it is beautiful...

Your imagination is beautiful, your mind and heart are beautiful, your life is beautiful.

She was the way nature made her...

Nature doesn't really make mistakes, but it does make cruelties.

You love yourself, Bones. Holidays and all.
Just keep on talking nice to yourself...no more cruelty.

You don't deserve it (and never did).

xo
Hops

Thanks, (((((((((Hops))))))))).

It's hard to turn off the flashbacks, especially when they wake me up from a sound sleep.

Bones

[BonesMS]

I agree, sweet Bones.

Your NM was the mistake.  And, even more importantly, she was mistaken.  In action and perception, thought and deed.

You did not deserve the way she treated you.  Her ill-treatment was not a reflection of you.  She was incapable of seeing you for the person you are.  And she missed out.  Because you're wonderful, thoughtful, smart, funny.  Whatever she thought she saw in you was just a projection of the qualities she despised in herself.

We're here now, regardless of our NParents intentions.  And even if we were "planned," our NMs certainly didn't plan on us having our own desires, needs, feelings, perceptions!  (How inconvenient for them! )  Our lives our ours.  Our feelings are valid.  And we control our destinies. 

I think AA's one-day-at-a-time slogan applies to DONM recovery too.  Sometimes, I think, I'll just focus on being kind and patient with myself today.  Or the rest of the day.  Or for the next few hours.  In tough times, it's sometimes easier to set short-term goals than it is to think in big terms like "my life," "the rest of my life," etc. 

Other times, when I realize I am speaking to myself in my NM's nasty, belittling voice, I kind of privately think Get out NM! and envision her flying out of my body exorcism-style.  This probably sounds a little schizo.  But visualizations can be powerful.

Here's hoping everyone's burden gets a little lighter every day.
Will be thankful this Thanksgiving for everyone on this board,
Kay x

Thanks, ((((((KayZee))))).

At times like these, I wish there were 3-D therapists around here who UNDERSTAND the issues that DONM struggle with every day.

Bones