Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff

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sKePTiKal:
ah.... mud! how right you are. I hope you know I'm still laughing, tho... (good timing!!)

Isn't it weird (rhetorical question) that we're programmed to constantly worry what someone ELSE is thinking about us, whether they're ready to pounce with a criticism, a cut-down, just another plop of yucky emotional crap??? All because of that one (or more) N in our life? It's a problem we don't have to have -- with other people -- yet we do.

Maybe that's a sort zen-koan answer to Boat's question about what this topic of play, flirting, intimacy... has to do with voicelessness.

sKePTiKal:
Hi NLS...

no, there's no tight definition of what this topic is about - we've even digressed into how the concept of play (which I've been thinking about again, lately) comes into thoughts, feelings... our attitudes about relationships - what works/what doesn't - what we want to change, etc. For me, how I function in a relationship is built on all the other crap about me that is more or less dysfunctional, on any given day.


--- Quote ---I get to protect myself until I feel ready to be vulnerable.
--- End quote ---

I think your decision here gets very close to the heart of the topic, in fact.

Like tt says, what we practice a lot starts to feel natural... our comfortzone... us. I'm gonna guess that a few of us - I know I have had this experience - I will think I'm safe and protecting myself... in the midst of flirting, or "play"... and then suddenly - without noticing it happening - find myself vulnerable. Trapped. Cornered. Forced into an either/or decision that is totally no-win. OOPS. I don't like these situations.

I don't have much practice being vulnerable; at least not enough, where I can truly trust that I will be safe, seen, heard and taken care of***. So, it's not built into my feelings... not easily recognized... I don't consciously know the various things that go into the "recipe" either... where yes, I still have my boundaries - but they're not so high & inpenetrable & formidable that the perceived message is "go away, I vant to be alone" - and I'm also feeling safe enough that I can be vulnerable... and still "play".

***
"being taken care of" seems to be new theme with me. I used to joke, that hubs & I needed a live-in mommy... but it's less funny in the context of this topic. I do think, this is an indication I have some needs not getting met. Is it possible to crave something that scares the crap out of oneself? Isn't "being taken care of" the same as vulnerability & intimacy?? Or am I being emotionally naive again??

Meh:
Well I know that both my mother and grandmother give horrible horrible advice related to romance. More noticeable though is the over all lack of valuable wisdom they have to offer in this area.

Well except that my grandmother said "date nerds"......maybe that was good advice I'm not certain.

sKePTiKal:
Oh, tt... I thought THIS was very, very, very, very wise:


--- Quote ---If his inner man doesn't feel safe with you, you will rarely see him.
--- End quote ---

Very helpful, too.

NLS: question for you to think about! (It's ok, if you don't want to answer here).

Do you sometimes feel as if your mom wants to choose your guys -- so that you end up exactly in the kind of relationship she's in? So that misery will have company?  If so, then ask another question: WHY has she stay married to this person, if he is all you say he is? What does that say, about how she sees herself? Does she REALLY believe that women don't have the right to say no to a man's sexual advances? (yes... one can tell hubby no, too - contrary to some old belief-systems).

Trying to answer those questions, might give you some clues to just how bad her advice to you, really is... and also why she's so forthcoming with it.


Now, my own question for input from y'all... WHY is it, some kind of girls' social sport to gripe about, criticize, and generally put down our hubbys? I can't seem to escape this in my 3D connections lately. Yes, I "play" too... because I'm trying to find solutions to the problems with hubs and me that seem - well, downright silly and should be easy to change. But it doesn't feel "fair" to me to engage in that whole thing. He has begun to help in the kitchen more - will take care of the dishes, for instance without prompting or asking. Just because it needs to be done. (Progress!) He helps recycle the stacks of magazines and junk mail that he's responsible for bringing into the house now, too.

These people (with a couple exceptions) don't seem all that seriously upset about the relationship or interested in changing it. They'd rather just let off steam with a good round of "ain't they awful"... is this some kind of female bonding ritual? Do those even exist? My brain has a memory of being told that women form relationships with each other this way, working in the kitchen, minding the babes & putting up the harvest. Of course, in my lifelong avoidance of female friends... it hasn't been that way for me. I'm lucky to have any female friends, really. So I am asking a serious question - because I don't know.

Comments? Insights?

Guest:
PR


--- Quote ---WHY is it, some kind of girls' social sport to gripe about, criticize, and generally put down our hubbys?
--- End quote ---


To stop other women stealing them? ("He's so useless, you wouldn't want him".)
 
Or to encourage other women to have a go at stealing them ("I don't want him, he's useless"), so that the griper can be free to choose another one?

Or because they see men as a separate species? One to regard as the enemy?

Whatever the reason, I find it off-putting; I don't like it. I pretend to not be affronted by such stuff but I take notice of who does it and don't take part.

How would these women like it if they heard their hubby talking about them with their mates in similar terms?

Soapbox over.

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