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New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff

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Meh:
The heck you say!

sKePTiKal:
OK; a little grumpy today... because apparently I don't speak in such a way that hubs knows I'm simply making a statement - he takes it personally; that I'm commenting on him. He fell asleep on the couch... and I when I nudged him, and woke him... I also squinted at the clock (I'd been drifting off too) and said: It's not even 8 oclock.

He told me I was making fun of him for falling asleep; I told him - I'm sorry you feel that way, but here's what I meant...

And he STILL thinks this, this morning, that I was making fun of him.

This crap makes me crazy; I feel like I'm speaking in a foreign language and can't make myself understood. Do you guys think I'm speaking in a code?? I work hard to say specifically what I mean... constantly editing and watching my words... so I WON'T be misunderstood...

sKePTiKal:
Well, FW... that is certainly one of my trigger points. Being believed about what/how I feel, in particular.

There is more to this, tho... stuff I can change (my stuff that is)... and some things I can ask him to do/not do and why it might be important to me. We've gotten into the usual married-couple habits... and some of those habits habitually hit my trigger points -- but I didn't realize it before, nor did I think they might be reinforcing some "stuckness" for me... on things I want to change. It was all just hunky-dory before therapy... before regaining a relationship with my Self... and silly me; I expected hubs and the rest of the world to simply automatically see & recognize that... and adjust accordingly. It's not just Nmoms who don't do this - it's the whole world, no matter how much I still need someone to do that. Now the old relationship "games"... the silly ways we interact and play with each other - well, they need to adapt too.

I snapped his head off (verbally) last night, as he hit me with the parent-child game again last night in his communication to me. He needs to "get with the program"... he needs a report on where I am right now and what I DON'T need anymore... and to know what I do want from him. It's not his fault. I did tell him a long time ago what I wanted/needed... then that changed, but it kept changing too... metamorphosis is a process... so I haven't yet communicated at that level, the "who I am now"... which is why he keeps tripping my triggers. It might even be a welcome breath of fresh air to the relationship... at least some of it. He is trying SOOO hard these days to participate in the chores of daily life and meet me halfway on my expectations for his participation.

I don't often lash out like that anymore at anyone, much less him. But the parent-child crap combined with his constant attention-stroke seeking neediness was just too much for me. It's the old making me responsible for his crap - too - then bitching about how I take care of it. I'm not having any of that crap anymore. From anyone. For now.

Like I said - grumpy.

Meh:
I've got to admit, I don't get it P (then there are a lot of things I don't get), you wake up your husband because its early in the evening and you don't want him to fall asleep yet or something...then he thinks you are making fun of him?? You are a bit pissy for whatever reason. WHY are you grumpy?

I'm sorry but I don't see where the conflict is in this interaction...maybe I'm being dull but I'm missing something here P.

I would say something like this maybe just needs to blow over as a non-event...but then again I'm no expert.

You could say to him that you LUV him, (kiss), and that you feel irritable, AND most importantly you are going to immediately join a book group, START a new workout routine that includes going somewhere and walking someplace new...or going to a museum....or JUST go take a class any class....do some ZUMBA or something.... You don't really need to negotiate this with him do you? Can't you just sign up for a class and tell him casually as you are on your way out the door....."I've got a class to attend...here's some frozen pizza".....a minor commitment class....ANYTHING....cooking class....rock climbing.....investing....?

What the book and binoculars.....I'm going BIRD WATCHING.....I'll be back in three hours.....you can take a nap while I'm gone.

sKePTiKal:
OK, so maybe "grumpy" is a code-word for a volatile cocktail of more basic emotions... and maybe I was grumpier than I knew!

Boat - you're right, you did miss part of the picture. Hubs gets serious neck cramps when he falls asleep on the couch - sitting up; head lolling to one side or the other... or all scrunched up, in an awkward position. I was waking him, to prompt him to go lie down and stretch out more comfortably.

FW - I was in that fuzzy state between full consciousness and sleep, too. I think I had "come to" after sliding off into a short doze, when I realized hubs didn't look comfy at all. So my comment about the time, was an incredulous observation about both of us being sleepy so early. Easily explainable by the early hour we woke up that day, too. I'm gonna come back to that...

It was after he'd complained I was making fun of him, and also after I'd explained that I wasn't... and what I was doing... and he wasn't accepting it, that the "sorry you feel that way" came out. Because I need a boundary with him of this sort, on a daily basis. It's all low-level ground clutter stuff - each one doesn't have much significance - but it takes a cumulative toll on me, to "hold up" under this constant nitpicky stream of trying to make me responsible, accountable and "in charge of" his state of being. I really don't want to be - this is counter to one of my basic needs from this type of relationship, knowing that I can rely on him to pitch in... be part of the process... participate in decision-making... and manage his own crap, existential or otherwise. I'm looking for an equal partner, in other words with his own particular skill-set and differences, to collaborate with... and hubs does rise to this expectation in splendid form... sometimes.

That said, I agree with you about the distance and coldness in the "sorry..." remark. It wasn't helpful in that situation and unfortunately - distance and withdrawal is my relational "secret weapon" or refuge. I don't like this particular "hangover" from coping with my FOO and have been working on it. Some days are better than others, as far as my ability or capacity. Probably the most frequently used word in the house is "sorry"... and it's covering the gamut, the range... that Lighter so brilliantly connected to the meaning of "spicy" in any given situation. And it's used too often, to excuse what I think is an unconscious form of power struggle.

I did speak to him, about what I feel is a parent-child interaction/expectation pattern between us. He "babysits" me way too much for my comfort - and expects me to treat him in the same fashion. Like he'll tell me HOW to say things and HOW I should feel, even. How romantic, you know? [He knows this is an anger-trigger; been pointed out many times... but I guess he feels it shouldn't apply to him. SIGH] My hero... who I have to wake up and tell him to go to bed, where he's comfortable... a grown man who I expect to take care of me when I need him to, can't even take care of himself (according to my version of wisdom).

And yes, we're probably both grumpy about this under the surface stuff... and I'm frustrated because I want to change it... and he thinks it's just hunky-dory... it's all good, from where he sits. So, yes... the option to just get myself out of the house on a regular basis is the sensible thing to do. But even that gets turns into me having his emotions in my power... because he'll ask "where've you been?" "I was lonely" and he won't even feed himself... until I get home... much less find something to do for himself. My absence and non-babysitting approach is read as "you don't care about me".

No, I don't handle that kind of subtle hostility...passive aggressiveness, very well. When it's a constant sub-text to the relationship, it's like chinese water torture... and since he will go to extremes to avoid conflict, or won't believe me when I tell him my feelings... when we do talk about it... I'm feeling not heard, pretty intensely. Important only in the functional sense... i.e, taking "care of"... "caretaking" him. The whole co-dependency cycle...

NO WONDER I'm "grumpy" and touchy... well. Glad I was finally able to spit that out so I can look at it. Maybe I'm wrong... maybe this has more to do with hubs' ego & retirement than it does with anything else...

Thanks guys. More thinking, looking, talking and then I'll come back to this.

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