Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Stacey Lynn on November 20, 2004, 01:35:27 AM
-
Uhhh! I'm brewing right now! I just can't get over the fact that all these sick N individuals get to go blindly through their lives "technically" not even aware of the total destruction they caused so many people! How is this fair! We have laws and consequences in our society for people who cause pain/harm/emotional suffering ie: sexual harassment and all the millions of other bullshit reasons people today feel they need to either sue, blow schools up, etc.. Here we all are....and we can't do sh-t! Why? Are perps don't have the capacity to understand!!! But nevertheless, they are allowed the freedom to roam the planet freely, causing pain and destruction to most who dare cross their paths! I just can't swallow it some days!!! Sometimes I truely feel like ripping my mother's head off! Especially when she speaks as though she hasn't has a CLUE to why her daughter is and has been so angry with her!!! Are you kidding me!!! I've learned that it's a lost cause, but it's still gets my panties twisted now and again!
-
I hear you. hang in there.
bunny
-
I hear you, Stacey Lynn! It can be so infuriating. When I was waking up finally and getting a clue about the two wack-a-doo's who call themselves my parents, I was having a really tough time with my anger. I felt they'd ruined everything for me and GOT AWAY WITH IT and were still doing it. During this time, my father was being more obnoxious than usual, probably because he sensed I was pulling away, and I turned to my mother and said "I don't know how much more of this I can take from you people. I AM SICK OF THIS!" And she gave me the ugliest look and spit out "Sick of what?? What's YOUR problem anyway?"
Anyway I had to not to not speak to them for a couple of years and things are better now, we communicate and I visit and such, but they didn't and still DON'T GET IT and no its not fair. And I still get angry about it sometimes.
-
Now that I'm all riled up :-), I wanted to clarify something I just said because I don't think I conveyed what I meant. What my parents didn't and still don't get why *I* was angry with them. But that doesn't mean I think they don't know full well that how they treated me was wrong. I sincerely believe their treatment of me was a deliberate conscious choice. Thats why I'm still angry today. They just don't get why I suddenly got torked off after 30 years of putting up with it. Like "what's your problem all of a sudden?"
Anyway, Stacey Lynn, I hear you. Be angry, get mad, and vent!
-
Stacey Lynn and Frustrated,
I hear you both loud and clear. You speak my thoughts today!
The most frustrating part is that they act like they don't know what they are doing to us and they refuse to admit to things. BUT.....
I have caught my Nmom in SOOOO many lies, that I'm convinced her and my Ndad's acting like they don't realize what they are doing is in itself another trumped up lie.
They have spent their life together coniving to get us kids (wea re now 47, 45 and 38) to do exactly as they want. They pump up each other when one feels slighted because they don't get their way with me.
My problems exist because I moved far away and that makes them angrier than ever. When they can't get to me to "punish" me they fume. Then they spend much time trying to come up with ways to get at me and try to bring me back into the fold so they can keep harassing.
But I'm never moving back, never reverting to my old compliant ways and never treating them with kindness again. That's my satisfaction.
-
Hey Stacey Lynn: Simma donna!! (If you don't know what that means watch SNL where Cheri Oteri is an Italian lady - what she means? Simmer down now!! )
Really, I am just in a goofy mood and whenever my friend or I get riled up and start to go off the deep end with our stupid, N moms (or in her case, sister..............) we always say Simma donna! and it immediately diffuses the situation!!!
Someone also told me to imagine my mom with big Minnie Mouse ears and speaking in a really squeaky voice and when I look at her behavior through those glasses, it really takes the pressure off the situation. A few times I have kind of giggled while she was being so serious and I know that just makes her mad (and makes her think she is justified in thinking that I am immature!!)
But you are right!! It isn't fair that so many Ns get to be jerks and everyone thinks that I (or you in your case) have the problem. I guess we have to just walk away and know that we know that WE are not the problem and also know that we will NEVER EVER be able to change those frustrating, sick people!!! Kelly
PS. You can vent this way anytime!!!
-
Hi again...
I'm feeling a bit better today! For those of you who haven't read my prior posts....
This past May will mark 6 1/2 months since my official disassociation with my mother. Although I know it was absolutely the best thing I ever did for myself, I still can't swallow one MAJOR factor of this disorder....
The fact that....
-This sick, abusive woman basically ignored me my entire life
-I chased after her for 31 years wanting nothing more than her love.
-I have spent over 15 years in therapy for one reason or another to finally find out it's all so simple! It was her all along!
-My childhood was a complete BUST!
-I was stamped as the "drama queen" and the "black sheep" of the family my entire life
-Although I lived under the same roof with my brother, we are polar opposites of each other. He not only worships my mom, but is well on his way to successfully cloning her.
-My father never once defended me, even though I know in his heart there were hundreds of occassions he knew mom was psycho.
-She has successfully managed to manipulate the minds of everyone she associates with into believing that I am the troubled one!
-I NO LONGER HAVE MY FAMILY!
Ya know...I as well as all of you, could go on and on with this list. Sometimes I don't get myself...maybe because I've just started the real birth of finding out who the REAL Stacey Lynn is. To date...I can't believe it myself sometimes, but I am the happiest I have ever been. I know this contradicts the anger just mentioned, but truely I can say I've never felt better. Things just kinda started to fall into place after this happened. I have an amazing support network now. I wake up happy and what used to feel like I was living in a Soap Opera is no longer. It's just this one issue that still burns me up....
Where the hell do these psychos get off looking like the heros! It's like the biggest slap in the face! After all the victimization, after the joyous relief of learning there is actually a name for this behavior and in general, finally getting confirmation that I was right all along. Then deciding to take that huge leap and cut myself free once and for all.....what does mom make of it?
NOTHING MUCH!!! I can almost hear her talking to my father saying something like, "Stacey's at it again! When will her drama stop? I mean c'mon Bob (dad)...how on earth does she expect me to know why she's so angry if she doesn't clue me in on anything?"
:twisted: THIS IS THE PART I STILL RAGE ABOUT!!!
IS THIS SOME KIND OF SICK JOKE???
I feel like I'm living in a gameshow! I'm the contestant on the Price is Right! I was instucted to pick the prize behing door number 1, door number 2 or door number 3. As I pointed to the door...Bob Barker exclaims, "You just won the fabulous prize of having parents who completely F-Up your childhood. But wait...there's more...you've also won the Bonus Prize, which entails recovering from your abuse, but accepting the fact that your abuser will never admit to ever causing you harm!
It's like being violated all over again!
I recently have gotten much more involved in my religion and spirituality, and just stiving to become a better person. I find comfort in praying for my parents, and all of this has truely helped enormously in my healing process.
I choose to believe that there's a bigger plan behind all of it. There has to be a reason we all have gone through this. It can't be in vain. I hang on to the hope that I'll be blessed with discovering why I needed to go through this. Maybe It's because it's the only way I could be granted the prize behind the other 2 doors! Who knows?
I struggle daily with thoughts of slowly torturing her or ripping a limp..you know...just pure rage! Then, I calm myself and remind myself that I'm trying to be a better person. Uhg! It's just unbelievably so hard to swallow!
Thanks to all who let me vent! Didn't I say somewhere above, "I'm feeling a bit better today."? Maybe I should have re-thought that!
Thanks...Stacey Lynn
-
Thanks to all who let me vent! Didn't I say somewhere above, "I'm feeling a bit better today."? Maybe I should have re-thought that!
Thanks...Stacey Lynn
((((Stacey Lynn))))) Seems we've got to process our hurts again and again and it sure is not a picnic with absolutely no closure coming from our abusers. I have no one left from my extended family. They were poisoned against me years ago. My mom paints me as defective. She has more money than me so they believe her. It is like a silent poison she spread behind the scenes. I have a brother who is N and he will tattle to his mommy. He is over 50 years old!
I want to say that I love your description about the game show.
Your relatives picked the wrong door and lost out of winning you. Their loss.
-
Your relatives picked the wrong door and lost out of winning you. Their loss.
Flower,
Thanks for the kind words. It cheered me up!
-
Hi Stacey Lynn, :)
Looks like you posted and I edited during the same minute! :) I added an edit above because I wanted to say I love your description of the game show, it really reflects the truth for me about the dynamics of it all :
"you've also won the Bonus Prize, which entails recovering from your abuse, but accepting the fact that your abuser will never admit to ever causing you harm!"
Thanks for your perspective, it gave me a picture to help remember the dynamics.
:)
-
Hi Stacey Lynn,
If I remember, you're Jewish.....so am I. My feeling is that the Jewish religion didn't give me enough tools to deal with the unfairness and frustration. Maybe that's why Jews invented psychoanalysis, to compensate for what the religion didn't really cover. :P
Anyway I found a lot of peace in integrating the Eastern spiritual stuff about higher consciousness, awareness, accepting that other people may be an extremely low level of awareness. I don't know if things happen for a reason because a lot of bad things happen. Yesterday my elderly uncle started reminiscing to me about Auschwitz. I wasn't prepared to hear it, but he seemed to want to tell me. There's no reason for Auschwitz. It was irrational and a nightmare. But life throws stuff at us, and at humanity.
So I think life is about being the best person you can be. If you are a mensch, and I think you are, then you're on the right road. Your mother is not on that road. She has a different journey from yours and (imo) a sadder and more miserable one.
A book that changed my entire way of thinking when I read it, years ago, was Handbook to Higher Consciousness by Ken Keyes. It's very "1960's" but I was helped very quickly by what he wrote.
bunny
-
bunny, I wish I had an elderly uncle who would confide some deep things about his past that are significant.
On another note:
Stacey Lynn, I was smiling inside while I wrote the post above. I think I got carried away on the smileys.
I've got to cut down on the smiley faces. I remember when smileys first came out when I was in highschool, back in the olden days. We became sick of them by the time the fad wore out. They put smileys on everything it seems - like clothes, whatever. I actually had to overcome my adversion to smileys on the net, and since we can't see facial expressions and tone of voice, I try to use them for clarification.
To me the game show word picture shows in a nutshell what kind of parents we got, no fault of our own and the disappointment and also the additional aspect of that although we are healing we can never have validation from the ones who were supposed to have nurtured us. My mom and dad will never see my perspective. I'm giving up on ever getting their affirmation about my perspective of their behavior toward me.
And I still think your relatives lost out of winning you.
Warm regards and I think your search for the meaning of your painful experiences is a worthy search.
For me, I see bad experiences can be turned around and used for growth purposes, as painful as the experiences still remain. I've faced different adversities- a plenty - and they made me a different person than I would have been without the adversities. When I hold on to how things come into my life for a reason and there is a greater good, I can hold on until a brighter day. Part of the purpose of things becomes how I can try to offer comfort to someone else when they are going through a similar experience as I have, in order to comfort them as I have been comforted before by another who has been there.
-
Stacey Lynn
[The fact that....
-This sick, abusive woman basically ignored me my entire life
-I chased after her for 31 years wanting nothing more than her love.
-I have spent over 15 years in therapy for one reason or another to finally find out it's all so simple! It was her all along!
-My childhood was a complete BUST!
-I was stamped as the "drama queen" and the "black sheep" of the family my entire life
-Although I lived under the same roof with my brother, we are polar opposites of each other. He not only worships my mom, but is well on his way to successfully cloning her.
-My father never once defended me, even though I know in his heart there were hundreds of occassions he knew mom was psycho.
-She has successfully managed to manipulate the minds of everyone she associates with into believing that I am the troubled one!
-I NO LONGER HAVE MY FAMILY!]
I endured the same treatment... exactly. EXACTLY!
It's amazing! I didnt think there was anyone who went
through the same thing! WOW
Thanks so much for sharing this.
I must say you have a FABULOUS sense of Humor!
I Laughed out Loud at this part of your post.
Humor is the funnest way to heal! :D
you wrote:
[IS THIS SOME KIND OF SICK JOKE???
I feel like I'm living in a gameshow! I'm the contestant on the Price is Right! I was instucted to pick the prize behing door number 1, door number 2 or door number 3. As I pointed to the door...Bob Barker exclaims, "You just won the fabulous prize of having parents who completely F-Up your childhood. But wait...there's more...you've also won the Bonus Prize, which entails recovering from your abuse, but accepting the fact that your abuser will never admit to ever causing you harm!
It's like being violated all over again!
Thanks
Judith
-
But wait...there's more...you've also won the Bonus Prize, which entails recovering from your abuse, but accepting the fact that your abuser will never admit to ever causing you harm!
It's like being violated all over again!
Stacey Lynn,
I just read this thread and laughed out loud, too, at your game description analogy. Funny. Thanks for the chuckle.
But on a serious note, I can very much identify. With my relationship over and no contact whatsoever for a month, I've had time to reflect. The initial shock, numbness and grief has been replaced by anger. Lately I find myself internally raging at some of the stuff my ex-N-fiance pulled toward the end. This included poisoning the well with pur neighbors (they now ignore my daughter and me even though he's long gone and we're still here); calling the bank and making up horror stories as to my role in our finances; writing a letter to my attorney that was full of highly personal details not only about our relationship but about my daughter, too; calling my boss; and generally painting a picture to mutual friends that HE was the one who had been victimized and taken advantage of --that I'd gone off the deep end, have significant emotional problems and preyed on him like a black widow.
From the little bit I know, he's now off to Chicago having purchased an expensive bachelor pad in a trendy neighborhood. More than likely he's chasing every skirt in the jazz clubs and once again pretending he's big man on campus. Meanwhile, I am left here with the home we purchased that was part of the "dream" (like an idiot I allowed him to hijack our lives -- quit my job, moved to another city, lost my support system and completely changed our environs) and am mopping up the details from his last manic acquisition phase.
Not only that, he seems to be able to walk away from this emotionally scot free while I am the one who is lamenting, processing, grieving and trying to survive -- both financially and emotionally. What burns me most is that he's convinced he's the victim and has persuaded some of our friends of same. He's back to drinking, carousing and burning money as if there's no tomorrow and I am in therapy, meditating, praying and trying to make sense of how I allowed all of this to happen.
DOESN'T SEEM FAIR and at low ebbs on bad days I almost feel that he's won and I lost; that my path toward emotional healing and spirituality seems pedantic and silly; that perhaps I am the problem and he has a better handle on life.
In reading my own writing, I know that this is faulty reasoning and I need to reframe it. But I agree with you, Stacey Lynn, it's unfair that they are allowed the freedom to roam the planet freely, causing pain and destruction to most who dare cross their paths! I just can't swallow it some days!!!
-
OK... I'd like to give you all an update....
Let's start by briefing you all that since all of this BS has hit the fan back in May. I have chosen a very different direction to head in life. I returned to my religion in hopes of healing and striving to forgive. I had 2 ways of dealing with all this...
I could rage and head in the direction of making my life's goal to "destroy my mother". Or...choose to be a bigger/better person, and have some sort of faith that there was a rason this all had to happen.
I chose the latter. (which is really a huge step for me). I have been in "full speed ahead" mode with learning more about my religion and striving to be better and do better. I must say....I feel the best I've EVER felt in my 32 years.
All the while, I have had little to no contact with my parents.
To date, I know I have more healing to do. But, a had a hard time decided what to do last week. It was my N mother's birthday. Humm...
Should I call or not! I told myself after asking many friends that I should call. Of course I prayed for an answering machine. Thankfully, my prayers were answered. Not only did I leave the message, but I had also sent 2 cards...one from my children and one from my husband and I.
I was feeling good. I did the mature thing. "I'm being a better person than her." I told myself. I was out most of the evening and returned to a message from her saying, " Hi Stacey, It's mom. Thank you so much for calling and sending the cards. It really made my birthday. Listen, I would love to talk with you. If your interested, call me."
I must have been in a good mood that night. Usually, as expected...she'd the last person I want to talk with anymore. I guess I threw her a bone.
We ended up speaking for close to 2 hours! I was exhausted afterwards because we started speak about "the issues" which I don't think I was exactly ready for. I'll spare you all the details.
What I wanted to note is this...
I told her I needed more time. I explained the spectrum of emotions I experience daily when thinking about our relationship. I stated that I didn't know how much time it would take to come to peace with it all.
My mother responded by saying, " Take as much time as you need. I'll be here whenever you're ready. Please know, that your father and I love you, and have always loved you. I feel so sad that you hold such anger towards us, and feel abused in some way. Noone has perfect parents. My parents did a lot of crazy things to me during childhood. The difference is...There comes a point in adulthood where you have to tell yourself, "My parents did the best they knew how. Nothing will change the past. Such is true with you Stacey. We loved you the best we knew how. We did the best we could. I'm sorry it wasn't good enough for you."
I responded semi-stunned. I thanked her for respecting my feelings. I also mentioned that there may come a day when I will come to peace with her comment. However, we'll never have to same kind of relationship again.
Now thinking back on it....YOU BET YOUR A-- IT'LL NEVER BE THE SAME! That's the wonderful part! I actually smiled! We never had a good relationship to begin with, and now...I can never be disappointed again. I have started to realize that they can only give so much. Therefore, my expectations are gone. It is one step closer to peace.
Thanks for listening! :)
-
Thanks StaceyLynn for updating us on your journey.
I'm happy about your choice and growth!
I could rage and head in the direction of making my life's goal to "destroy my mother". Or...choose to be a bigger/better person, and have some sort of faith that there was a rason this all had to happen.
I chose the latter. (which is really a huge step for me). I have been in "full speed ahead" mode with learning more about my religion and striving to be better and do better. I must say....I feel the best I've EVER felt in my 32 years.
You were really brave to talk to your mom!!! Here is a big hug (((StaceyLynn))). I am proud of you. I wish I could have told you earlier than now. I just started posting again today- hadn't posted since Dec. 31st. I had some rough times very early in January.
My mother responded by saying, " Take as much time as you need. I'll be here whenever you're ready. Please know, that your father and I love you, and have always loved you. I feel so sad that you hold such anger towards us, and feel abused in some way. Noone has perfect parents. My parents did a lot of crazy things to me during childhood. The difference is...There comes a point in adulthood where you have to tell yourself, "My parents did the best they knew how. Nothing will change the past. Such is true with you Stacey. We loved you the best we knew how. We did the best we could. I'm sorry it wasn't good enough for you."
That last sentence of what your mom said really hit me hard. It made me angry. I hope you don't mind me saying this. From my perspective, my parents wanted me to be perfect and I wasn't good enough for them.
Perfect isn't even the standard....just decency is all a person wants, IMO.
And it is all about her...she feels "abused in some way" arrgghh.
I hope you don't mind me sharing my reactions like this.
You did well to hold your composure. You did well to take the high road.
We never had a good relationship to begin with, and now...I can never be disappointed again
Your quote above says it so well. I wish you well on your journey to peace.
flower
-
Stacey Lynn and others.
Hope my post made sense. I just think your mom has things backwards.
I am just too tired. Thankyou everyone for your support these last seven months. Take care and don't let your Ns get to you. They are rattle snakes without rattles - unnatural trouble makers full of poison not happy unless they are stirring things up and putting us down.
-
Hi Stacey Lynn
Well done on your attitude towards your parents. I think in some ways letting go of the pain is the only way to truly move forward, but that is so much easier to say than do!
From what your mother said I just had a couple of little things that made me worry. The way she said that she was sorry it wasn't good enough for you seemed to me to be a way of turning it back on you, as if you were the one with the problem in all this. My ex bf does the same. "I will always love you more than you've ever been loved, I'm sorry that's not enough for you". It just made me think that she was doing the same kind of thing in not taking any responsibility for her actions. I'm not saying don't forgive her or anything, just that if she is N, she is unlikely to change of her own accord and all the things she did that made yo unhappy as a child are likely still to be there and ready to wound you again. Just be careful you don't get hurt again. Good luck with it all, take care.
-
I told her I needed more time. I explained the spectrum of emotions I experience daily when thinking about our relationship. I stated that I didn't know how much time it would take to come to peace with it all.
I think this is so important: to honor the fact you need more time. For many years, even after his death, I thought my Dad's real problem was alcoholism. In learning about NPD I am quite certain he suffered from this, too, and may be one reason I got so easily sucked in with my ex-N-fiance. It was familiar albeit dysfunctional and unhealthy.
At any rate, the alcoholism and, likely, NPD caused my Mom, siblings and me a lot of strife. Throughout the past five or six years, relationships with my sibs have gotten very complicated and downright negative. I have decided to take a break from all of this especially in light of what I was going through during the recent breakup with my ex-N.
Some days I chide myself for taking this time. But in reading your post, Stacey Lynn, I am reminded it's necessary so that real healing and growth can take place. In times past I've found myself people-pleasing then wondering why I've taken another fall after climbing out onto a limb prematurely.
As Cadbury wrote: "I will always love you more than you've ever been loved, I'm sorry that's not enough for you".
This is a trap and a no-win situation. In my experience, responding to a statement like this has been a case of taking the bait and then ending up with the conflict being my fault. And this isn't love. It smacks of power and control over another.
Flower: Warm regards and I think your search for the meaning of your painful experiences is a worthy search.
My sentiments exactly.
Best,
bludie
-
Some of the imagery on this thread is really useful. One of the pictures was of our families living in a kind of soap opera, where we used to be an actor too, but somehow we found out that it is all make believe, and yet there they are, acting the part they have on their script, and expecting us to believe it too.
I think the thing to remember is that they have chosen to believe that the soap opera is real. They have just as much evidence as we have that their thinking is not good, and that they are missing the plot. My own dad used to say to me when I was a child that if ever it came to a choice between backing up me and my brother, or backing my mum, he would always choose to back her up, even if he knew she was wrong. And he did. And still does.
That is his choice. He chose to allow her to abuse all three of us in any way she liked. He still allows her to abuse the grandchildren any way she likes.
The one consolation in all this appalling scenario, is that of all the people who suffer, I honestly believe she suffers most. Her behaviour comes from her very deep insecurity, and self loathing. That is so deep she would never be able to see the bottom of it if ever she tried. And so she spreads it around onto other people instead. We once had a really bad row, several years ago, when she complained about my behaviour towards her. She said; 'I am supposed to be your mother!' (Interesting choice of words, don't you think?) My reply was, 'Well, why don't you act like it, then!' But she can't do it. She wants the credit for being the Holy Mother, but she cannot begin to do the compassion, the empathy, the caring, the putting others before herself. And she doesn't even know that there is a whole raft of things that mothers do that she doesn't even know exist.
In her eyes I am heartless, cold, selfish, callous and unable to appreciate the martyr that she is. Fine. If that is what she chooses to think, then it is her loss. My friends say I am compassionate, caring, generous, sensitive, spiritual, kind, funny. My mother will never ever know who I am. Who loses most by this?
I think what I am trying to say is that it is wrong to say these people get off scot free. They have lost more than they can ever imagine.
I would rather be on the outside of the soap opera and able to see my own daughter as a growing and changing human being, with her own desires and ambitions, her own ideas which are not the same as mine, than to have her as a kind of extension of my own personality, to manipulate as I wish, and to feed my own need for attention and adulation.
Just one last thing on the 'we did the best we could' line. My dad uses this one too. He says they did their best for me. This is nonsense. They did the minimum they could get away with, and they know it. But by saying now that it was their best, what they are actually saying is that if they had it all to do again they would not change a thing. It is a denial of the very worst kind. Not only, we made mistakes, but we would do it again.
I have tried to do my best for my daughter since the day she was born. But looking back, there are things I would change. This is not to beat myself up, but to say, yes, there are things I got wrong, and that I would now, with hindsight, not do. I did the best I could, but I did not get it all right. Most of it. But not all. I made mistakes, but I would not do it again.
That is the difference between those living to a fantasy script, and those who have broken free. We can - with hard work - learn from our mistakes. they can only make them, over and over and over.