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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Redhead Erin on July 24, 2012, 02:49:00 AM

Title: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on July 24, 2012, 02:49:00 AM

I have told this story here before, but I want to do it again.  In a minute I'll explain why.

My mother has always had a "thing" about my body.  It has never been good enough for her.  I have known I was fat from the time I was about 5 years old.  That is when NM too me to the pediatrician and wanted to know why I was so chubby.  Then she called all her friends and told them that the Dr. had told htem it was "just baby fat," and that I would "grow out of it." That was when I first looked at my body and saw (real or imagined) rolls of fat, and I began to hate the way my body looked.

From that time on, NM was constantly manipulating my food, telling me what I could and couldn't have.  Like everything in NM's and my world, the rules changed when she wanted them to change. For instance, ice cream was forbidden until she wanted some, then we would have giant ice cream sundaes instead of dinner.  She was constantly starting some new cockamamie diet, coercing me to go on it with her. I started my first highly-structured diet, Diet Workshop, when I was 12.  When I was in high school, about 16 years old or so, My mother convinced me that for Christmas i should allow her to give me Nutra System as a gift.

I probably wanted something for my horse, but I let ehr convince me that I would look much better in the saddle if I lost some weight, so off we went.  Nutra system is one of those brutally expensive things that require you to buy all your food from them, plus weigh in, take classes, and have 1-on-1 counseling.  At the time, their food really sucked, too!   I started in the fall, and the counselor (Mother of the ridiculously over-achieving editor of my school paper) and my mother decided for me that at 5'6" I should weigh 133 lbs. This is actually too low for me, according to the Met Life tables, which is what they should have been using.

Needless to say, I had a horrible time of it.  I ate those horrible dehydrated dinners on thanksgiving, Christmas, my birthday, Valentines day, and my1-year anniversary with my then-boyfriend. I don't think I even had a cake on my birthday.  the BF gave me candy for valentines day, and I hid in my room to eat it, even though NM insisted I should put it in the living room for "everybody" (her and the dog) to enjoy. I still didn't make my goal, so they put me on a 500 calorie a day liquid diet.  This was ridiculous because I was a pretty active kid as a teen.  I had a paper route and a horse and I must have been working somewhere, because I worked all the time after I bought that horse when I was 14. I had to have a doctor's note to skip gym class; it was THAT bad.

Well, sometime in the spring, I reached the magic goal. I somehow managed to get down to 133. My mom bought me a couple of snazzy new outfits in my new tiny size. My grandma bough tme new show clothes because my old ones were now far too big.  I went on the maintenance at Nutra Systems (where they teach you how to eat real food) and all seemed well.   

Then one morning, MN had a jones for some pastry.  I already knew what I should eat for breakfast, but she wanted me to stop on my way home form the paper route and grab some stuff from the bakery.  I would have been glad to get her something, and then eaten my eggs and toast that I had planned.  But NO! that was not good enough.  Apparently she needed me to eat WITH her!  So she screamed at me, the worst thing anybody ever said to me:

WHY CAN'T YOU EAT LIKE A NORMAL PERSON?

That was all it took.  The light at the end of the tunnel went out and all those months of struggle came crashing down around me like the walls of the tunnel.  Hundreds of dollars--wasted! Months of my life--gone! Herculean effort and saint-like self denial--pointless!

 
The weight came back and stayed back. I began a secret binge-eating cycle that stayed with me for years. In a few months the new clothes were too tight and I was told I looked like a hooker in them. The new riding jacket hung in my closet, barely touched. I quit riding competitively. I turned my attention to a boy (NM's choice) who turned out to be a toxic blight in my life to this day.

I became overweight and stayed over weight for the next 7 or 8 years, until I found Overeaters Anonymous.  Then I joined the Army, which forced me to control my weight, then I went though a period when I really could not afford much food. So I had a lot of external influences controlling my weight for me.  As soon as I had some money (Ironically by becoming a lingerie model) I returned to my crazy and self-destructive eating habits. the first time O got on a scale after my son was born, I weighed 230 lbs!


I have lost most of that weight (My son is now 11) but for the last 2 or 3 years I have been fooling around with the same 15 lbs, just out of my goal range.  My doctor and my trainer both agree that 145 is a reasonable, safe, and attainable goal for me, but I just cannot seem to go there.  I know for certain this is more a case of self-sabotage than anything else.  I know it because, any time I have any reasonable  progress, I do something to wreck it.  For instance, just last week, I had a better than average loss.  So I binged all weekend.

I had a big meltdown over this today.  I wanted desperately to "get back on the horse" with my diet, but hubs wanted to go out for dinner.  As soon as he suggested it, I began to panic. (This happens a lot) We talked about it some, but I feel unhappy using Hubs for a therapist. Especially since his father recently died and he has his own burden right now.  I hate to pile all my problems on him, too. 

Anyway, this is what came out of the talk:

1.  That moment, and the statement "WHY CANT YOU EAT LIKE A NORMAL PERSON" resonates because it sums up my wntire relationship with food and with her at that time. 

2.  I still do not feel like a normal person.  Even in a society where more than half of adults are overweight, I feel as if my efforts toward healthy eating are somehow deviant or obsessive.

2a. Actually I frequently do not feel normal in any respect.

3.  I have come to believe it doesn't matter how hard I work on my diet, I will ultimately fail.  Therefore, it does not matter if I try or not. Why not have the treat now, if there is no reward later?

4.  My needs do not matter. NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, NOT ONE BIT.  Even those months of struggle as a teen ager became null and void compared to my mothers "whim of the moment" (Ted's phrase, so apt!)

5.  Asking for what I need makes me a food weirdo, and also very selfish. 

6.  People will not like me if I constantly (read: EVER) refuse to comply with their whims and partake in things that are bad for me.  (Way to teach me about peer pressure, MOM!) In other words, I have no right to decline form participating in activities that may hurt me.

7---No , wait!--unhealthy eating activities CAN'T hurt me, because I wasn't going to make my goal anyway! (Cue the Queen music: "Nothing really matters/anyone can see/nothing really matters/noting really matters....to meeeeeeeee............any way the wind blows........")


Then there are all the horrible associated mixed messages that are only halfway related to food:

Nobody likes a fatty<==> thin women are out to steal your man and can't be trusted

You will never get a man looking like that <==>women who are interested in attracting a man are tramps

A woman without a man is nothing <==> a woman who wants to attract a man is a tramp

Women are not really your friends, they are your competition


So apparently I should strive to be attractive and get a man, but I should expect that other women will hate me for being attractive. I should also understand that attempting to get a man makes me a whore, so I should never REALLY attempt to get a man, just sit around with all my shallow competitive friends and try to look pretty without them noticing.   :?


I, um, I have some stuff to work out here.  Can you tell?

 

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Hopalong on July 24, 2012, 07:17:17 AM

I know it's backward in a way, but
you are not your body.

I think we are trained to over-identify with our bodies. For "good" and "bad" reasons.

I mean...it's not that one should disconnect and not feel the pleasure/health/ill-health of our physical wellbing. I don't mean that.

It's just that in our culture (much less with insane Nmothers who appropriate daughters' bodies as accessories) -- women are taught to believe that the vessel is the content.

YOU are the content. All the good alive interesting loving bright trying learning creative Erin -- that's the content.

I think you should treat your body lovingly, but not love "it", if that makes sense.

Love YOU. Then, healing from her appropriation of your body, and healing from other ways you've hurt YOU, will accelerate. And a natural outcome of that, will be a fitter, healthier body that you can enjoy more. How it looks may be part of that, usually is, but how it feels will be the real motivator.

(Your face is beautiful and I'm sure your body is too. Right now, as is. But back to the subject -- YOU.)

I told my ex² who had bad scarring and a host of physical damage from an accident: I really like your body, just as it is I find it interesting and beautiful. But your body is just a house. I'm in love with the man who lives there.

love
Hops

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 24, 2012, 09:08:28 AM

Well, Erin. Really you're not alone, in the situation you wrote about - I've posted some about the same things, too.

At 16, I was 5'6"... but I weighed 110 lbs. and no amount of food could overcome my metabolism and nutritional deficiencies (the metabolism was probably anxiety-driven). Even pregnant, the doc was concerned I wasn't putting on enough weight - but both girls were full-term and weighed over 7 lbs. Then, more recently, after all the menopause dramas... my metabolism has totally flipped around. Easy to put it on; hard to take it off... and to make matters complicated, there's all my auto-immune crap to sort out, too. It's all a legacy malfunction of the mind-body connection and how Nmoms interfere with the normal functioning of that...

thinking you're hungry, when in reality you're eating to "manage your emotions"...
not eating because your emotions are in such a chaotic state of turmoil... (I get nauseous even looking at food, in that state)
eating/not eating... to please someone else... or letting their choices of food/portions dominate yours...

These are all a sort of delayed reaction to the complicated (and screwed up) primary caregiver (Nmom) attachment relationship. (I'll bet you're saying GEE, that's soooo helpful, right??) How each piece fits together into that explanation will only become clear after a long time of studying it - if you're even willing to do that much work. Suffice it to say - there is an almost magical result... where an infant/small or developing child - simply will not "thrive"... whether this manifests as being sickly, eating disorders, learning challenges... if there is not a strong, loving bond from the beginning with dear old mom. It's like that infant KNOWS and has enough consciousness to recognize... where he/she rates with mom. From that early, on...

and then it gets MESSY; all the different threads of colored yarn start to get knit into bits and pieces of identity... but tangled, not properly joined... until the result turns out to be this knotted up, jumbled, messy ball of yarn.

Some of the things that jumped out at me, in what you wrote... about where/how and what got messy:

Even when you were 5, she was projecting her body image issues onto you; not allowing you to simply be who YOU were - a separate, complete, self-contained package of YOU. Sounds like her specialty was "enmeshment". (You can look up all these words here and see what we've talked about before... and there are other websites.) The forced dieting at that age should've - could've been stopped by a doctor - but I imagine that was never brought to his/her attention. It's the opposite of what happened to me: I was bullied and browbeaten to eat and clean my plate every meal... and put down as being "skin and bones"... and boys wouldn't be interested in such a skinny-minny... until I was so upset, I'd throw up if I ate. I was never hungry; wouldn't dare start that whole mess. That was my way of taking back my power; exerting my control.

I think our unconscious selves go into resistance mode: YOU CAN'T MAKE ME. And so that part of ourselves gains, maintains and reverts to "control" over those fundamental mind-body connections: knowing when you're full, or hungry, food cravings for specific things...

The thing that I know from my own experience, is connected to self-sabotage - is what your said Nmom said to you; the way she crushed your fresh bud of the flower of confidence and self-esteem for reaching the goal - which was obviously so important to HER, that surely she'd be pleased at your success, isn't that the way it works?? - but no. She still found a way to put you down - and you came to the conclusion that what you did/didn't do... didn't matter; i.e., you didn't matter enough to even warrant that simple recognition of a job well-done. There is a lot of messy, not totally focused anger in that feeling... and it goes in a lot of directions - not just at mom. Hence, self-sabotage.

The takeaway from that (which I admit, is probably more my experience than anything I could possibly know about you)... is simply this: YOU get to decide whether it was a job well done and how you feel about it - Mom's words, treatment of you, and attempts to put you "in your place" - say a whole hell of lot more about HER... than about YOU. If you did it once - you CAN do it again; you have all the inner resources to accomplish your goals. Stop being her sock-puppet - don't let her jealousy of your success (and her withholding of praise for it) - rain on your parade. She has been trying her whole life to export to YOU... all of her issues, feelings about herself... and then she is able to put them down... by putting YOU down. And when you don't understand and comply with her "stated desire" - to control your weight, you're missing the message that really matters to her in the "under the radar" kind of role you're supposed to play... (you did what she can't do herself)... well, then she gets nasty and has to hurt your feelings and put you down. Like she's allowed to do that and get away with it... simply because she's "Mom".

Inhale. Exhale.

For the sake of your own health, you need to try something on for size. That's the idea that "Mom" - and I mean the whole complete warped, perverse package of memories, feelings, life lived or postponed that include her - "Mom" is just another person, like a stranger on the street or in Walmart. She has no special knowledge of who/how you are... she barely sees you; all she "sees" (and even that is questionable) is a reflection of her SELF. She doesn't see Erin; know Erin; and anything she thinks she knows -- is about her.

And when you can really experience what it feels like - to be ERIN... not mom's idea of Erin (that weird reflection version)... and you WILL feel that...
then that messy knotted up ball of different colored yarns... will start to loosen and separate and organize all the threads into separate colors again... order from chaos... and it'll be easier to understand, you'll be free-er of the old crap, and you'll feel so light (and colors around you will appear brighter) you'll feel so light, and totally able to simply "do" what you know is in your best interests... you'll even start to forget that this person called "mom" was such a factor in who you are... and wonder how you could ever think that in the first place.

Then, it'll be a whole lot easier to untangle that other ball of yarn of mixed messages about what is/isn't true of women and how women are healthy. Then, your needs - to be healthy - will just be natural and nurturing and disconnected from the experiences that were the opposite.
Then, it won't be such a conflict.

BTW - everything Hops said is true and invaluable in the stuff I've suggested above, too. In fact, it's probably a very necessary complimentary new "habit" to help you get through the other stuff. Just giving you my way of thinking about these things - for what it's worth. Your mileage may vary! Good luck, kiddo... you're about to discover (and doing really, really well I might add) some amazing things about YOU.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on July 24, 2012, 09:28:36 AM

Ohhhhhh, thanks Hops.  You always say the nicest things.  

It seems like I have 2 separate but related things going on:

1) I really don't like the way I look.  Objectively, I do not have the look for pin-up modeling, which has been a hobby of mine for years.  So whenever I have a photo session and get the pictures back, I am really disappointed with the results.  And while I know this is entirely about the vessel, it is still sad and disappointing, to the point where I am ready to take down my website and call it quits.  Looking at my pictures lately only reminds me of my lack of progress in the last 3 years. This makes me feel bad for being undisciplined and doing all the things I know I shouldn't.

2) I have a lot of negative programming around food/body/sexuality/social life/my personal likability.  It's easy to make the jump from "Why did I skip the gym and eat those cookies yesterday?  I am never going to reach my goal like that!" to "I am an undisciplined pig who always eats way too much and nobody would ever like me if they knew what a horrible glutton I am."   (Learning from my mistakes is sort of a new concept here.But I am getting it, a little)

3)  On the other side of the coin, I am also sort of afraid of success because what if I do reach my goal and make Pin-up Queen of the Year or something? Then will everybody hate me because they will think I am a tamp and a whore and trying to steal their men? I don't want that either!

So, I want to look the way I want to look.  I'm not striving for an unhealthy weight, and I know the limits of what diet and exercise can do.  Part of my obsession with this is that I want to master my body and my eating, and be able to say to myself and the world, "I AM DISCIPLINED! I AM COMPETETANT! I CAN DO THIS! I AN IN CONTROL!"

And also, I feel that once I do that, and have the actual weight loss goal out of the way, I can focus more seriously on the rest of my issues.  I have tried all that "Love your body the way it is" and it is seriously difficult for me.  My subconscious always screams, "What? Love this mess?  Are you crazy?"  It seems like fixing the mess is the better alternative.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on July 24, 2012, 09:35:21 AM

Phoenix--Your reply posted while I was typing.  I want to go through it more later but right now I am on the way to help paint a bus for the 4-H club to run in the Schoolbus Demo Derby.  See ya!

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 24, 2012, 03:33:13 PM

Erin, have only skimmed through the posts but the thing that struck me was whether you could change your goal to perhaps something health related rather than weight?  Say being able to do a certain number of sit ups or run a certain number of miles or swim a certain number of lengths - that sort of thing, rather than having a number in mind that you 'fail' by not getting to?

My guess is that you put youself through hell to try to please your mum, you got to this ridiculously tiny weight that she wanted you to get to - and then you still weren't good enough.  I'd guess that somewhere inside your body remembers that and stops you doing it again.  So I'm wondering if changing the goal would help you get to know your body in a positive way and see it as a living, breathing, incredible organism that needs to be fueled in the right way, rather than seeing it as something disgusting that's only acceptable if you get to a certain magic number?

I agree with all the 'love yourself as you are' stuff being difficult - I feel happier slimmer because I just feel better for it, because it generally means I'm eating well, exercising and generally happy with myself.  Just a quick thought for now! :)

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on July 24, 2012, 08:56:14 PM

Phoenix and Tup,

There is so much in your replies, and for some reason I can't take it all in right now.  The ED has become bigger than Mom or me or all the food in the world.  It's not even entirely about food any more. It has grown to be about my likability as a friend to other women  and my incompetence and inability to achieve my life's goals in general.

If I cannot manage my own weight, how on earth am I going to manage anything else in my life? I could not achieve even this one goal, so how can I possibly achieve any others?  And I certainly don't want anyone to hate me for my success (Don't hate me because I'm beautiful....)

As for striving for an unrealistic weight,  I really am not.  I am working with a trainer, and have looked at a bunch of weight charts, and the goal I have in mind (145 pounds) is really on the high end of my healthy range.  It is the weight I was supposed to be in the Army. 

Tup, I considered what you said about changing my goals from a weight goal to something else. This took a little thought because I really am quite shallow in this respect and it really is all about my looks.  I am an exotic dancer by trade and a pin-up model as a hobby.  There is no way this cannot be at least partially about my looks. I looked up the measurements of my favorite pin-up idol, Bettie Page. http://www.bettiepage.com/gallery/bikini/index.html#  (http://www.bettiepage.com/gallery/bikini/index.html#)This is what I found:

Height: 5 feet 5 1/2 inches
Weight: 128-130 (during 1950's)
Measurements: 36 - 24 - 35

According to Marilyn Monroe's dressmaker, Marilyn measurements were 35-22-35.  Hardly unattainable. 

I cannot do anything about the bust measurement except build up my pecs, but the waist and hip measurements are within my ability to change. 

I really want to give this issue some more attention, but my dumb husband is sitting next to me, bugging me about a 4-H project and I cant focus on it right now.  More later.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on July 25, 2012, 04:48:38 AM

HEre is one bit of the puzzle:

Mom always gave me to believe that women hate other women whom they perceive as more attractive than themselves. She herself was once pretty, but she never kept up with herself and for the last 40 years has been just as plain as dirt.  Yet she was bitter and jealous of good-looking women, always insinuating they were either trash  or sluts, and generally selfish or irresponsible for investing the time and money to make themselves look nice. 

Unfortunately, I have seen Mom's theory that all women hate hate pretty women this proven time and again at my work.  Granted, dancers are some of the cattiest, nastiest, most vindictive women on the planet, to be sure.   I know my work is an artificial environment where every woman's self worth and earning potential is related directly to her perceived outward attractiveness.  However, years of being exposed to that toxic environment only served to reinforce the original message.

Now I am trying to transition out of dancing into a new career and to spend more time doing things with my family.  Doing things with my husband and son means meeting the wives or mothers of their friends.  Many of these women have not made their appearance their first priority.  It would be logical to assume that, if they do not appear overly concerned with their own appearance, then they likely do not care about  mine. 

However, my fears get the better of me and I am terrified to the point of aloofness that they will think poorly of me for investing so much time and energy in my appearance.  I am afraid they will think I am a rotten bitch or worse, that I am out to get their men.  These ideas come directly from my mother, who told me in as many words, that that is what women think of attractive women. 

So once again I am in a quandary.  I don't want to sabotage my weight loss, but I don't want to alienate my new friends, either.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Hopalong on July 25, 2012, 07:29:16 AM

Dolly Parton goes to the revival? Or to the 4-H meeting?
Or kind of an Erin Brockovitch style in a buttoned-up culture?

Women internalize the sexism around them, and some lash out at
themselves and other women. I just approach every single female
I meet as my ally whether she knows it or not. Make more friends
that way.

I can understand that some women would blame you automatically
for "man stealing" if they know your line of work. These would be
the same women who blame/attack the horrible "other woman"
for "seducing" their husband/s. I do think there's moral culpability
in others' marriages if one steps into that space. However, I also
always found that sad and unfair. HE broke a vow by being disloyal
or disrespectful or straying or leering. Why is she pilloried for it?
(Because our culture hates women, that is why. And so the world.)

And, I have a lot of amateur armchair theories about why women
go into sex work or just dancing work. I know there are proud and
liberated exceptions but I think most go there from hurt. And the
industry takes advantage of their hurt. And the world rolls on and
the club owners and pimps get rich. The injustice of that bothers me
a lot more than the flaunting of sexuality.

My inner prude has learned a lot from hearing about your life, Erin.
Thank you for sharing it here.

I'm wondering if there's any sort of women's group, support group,
class, workshop etc., where you can get to know women during a time
where the focus is OFF the vessel and ON the content...when really
everybody in the room is there because they need to share their
"contents" in an authentic way with others.

Couple of my closest friends I would never have "picked out"
based on obvious things...but we got to know each other slowly,
and in real ways. And now I see the contents.

The other thing that popped into my head was how the more
intentionally I try to love myself, the less my distress over aging.
I don't LIKE the changes, but I don't feel ASHAMED. Gradually,
I'm beginning to interpret each one positively. Earned. Like
weather. So...as a mountain or stone is formed and weathered
and those are beautiful, that's how I'm looking at old bodies.
(Might as well practice with my own...)

"History Detectives" on PBS last night had a episode/section on
a lost image of Betty Paige.

Hops

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 25, 2012, 08:22:29 AM

Oh jeez - don't have a lot of time this a.m. - but Penny: this is sooo well said, and helpful, and easier to understand than how I describe my inner "resistance" -- that paralyzes me, then "defeats" my wish to achieve my goals, and ultimately leads to self-sabotage:

Quote

My guess is that you put youself through hell to try to please your mum, you got to this ridiculously tiny weight that she wanted you to get to - and then you still weren't good enough. I'd guess that somewhere inside your body remembers that and stops you doing it again.  So I'm wondering if changing the goal would help you get to know your body in a positive way and see it as a living, breathing, incredible organism that needs to be fueled in the right way, rather than seeing it as something disgusting that's only acceptable if you get to a certain magic number?

Our bodies DO remember - they want their current "security blankets", their normal "comfort zone" habits... of eating poorly, inactivity, etc. (and the body doesn't "think" per se... and so doesn't realize that it's avoiding/denying... what our emotional and rational goals are. Those original, wounding experiences can be SOOOOO painful at the time - that it's even felt at the body level. This is a negative "body memory"... when we find ourselves struggling up the "gravel mountain"... one step forward.... 15 back... and it's composed of a toxic combination of things. I've tried working one color thread out of the toxic ball of yarn at a time... and I just want to set the whole damn ball on fire - frustration, lack of patience with myself, wanting a "magic pill solution"... but then: isn't that exactly what I experienced from mom? (the message: you can't do it right!! you're so stupid!! give it to me. And then, whatever it was - it wasn't something I achieved or created; it was mom's - I felt she stole it from me -- and I HATED the end result).

Your suggestion of changing the goal (and I'd include even the wording and how I talk to myself about it)... is practical and helpful. I call it approaching the problem sideways -- instead of a head-on confrontation. I persuade - not demand. Sort of a "body whisperer" approach. I have struggled now for YEARS with how to change those "self-uncare" or "self-neglect" habits... and what I found was that I CAN make changes... if I start with what seems like little, teeny-tiny - and totally unrelated things. I'm proud and a little embarrassed of my new habit of brushing my teeth - TWICE a day; instead of just once. It's built in and automatic now. I started out leaving myself a post-it reminder... until now, if I don't feel like brushing at night (and this does come up)... it feels uncomfortable. I don't like that feeling... so working with like/dislike is part of the change process, too. So now, I have a self-reinforcing habit to brush before bed. That was the goal. Repetition... pure, simple repetition can undo the old, bad habits.   But beware of making exceptions - excuses to yourself - or rationalizations: like, it won't matter if I don't brush tonight; it's only one night... that won't undo my progress. YES, it WILL... because it's much easier to return to old habits that lasted so much longer than this new one.

On the weight and body image - there's nothing like getting older to make you confront your issues here. You can't run and you can't hide... LOL!! So, the self-talk I'm using now - with mixed results, tho - is to talk about "training"... I'm competitive; training makes the assumption that I can "improve" from where I am now... stronger, more toned, better core muscles. The self-talk about losing weight is almost ALWAYS starting from the premise and assumption that there is something WRONG (pick a mean, negative word: lazy, no self-discipline, whatever) with where I am now. That kinda guarantees that whatever this week's goal is... is only reinforcing that old original experience of: no matter what I do, what my success is - it won't be good enough. Training starts with: here are your strengths, and weaknesses... look at what you can do now; where you are now... POSITIVE and what you want to work on. No pressure; no deadlines; no counting calories... just " I have this goal and it matters to ME, because I matter to ME. " The rest of it, is just repetition. (and I gotta work on this...)

Erin - before you lock yourself into the damned if I do, damned if I don't situation by saying achieving your body-image goal of your definition of beautiful has a guaranteed negative outcome... I gotta ask: what do you think beautiful FEELS like, inside? How frequently do you feel this now? In the past? NOT what it looks like -- that's all the societal stuff imposed our culture and collective understanding (and how often have we acknowledged beauty in people who don't meet those imposed "definitions"??)

I call it: feeling comfortable in my own skin. With the extra 20 lbs I don't want; with the skin - immune/allergy - crap I have; with the freckles that so upset my inner child; and not apologizing nor hiding the fact that I color my Andy Warhol white hair... just for ME - just so I don't have to look at it and feel that I'm sooo old, that it "doesn't matter" if I lose the 20 lbs... or get heathier... or...

it's kinda silly really - but having this hair color and consistently having a really good haircut (that I don't have to fuss with for it to look good) has been a very, very important step forward - even though a lot of women would see it as a teeny-tiny-baby step and maybe accuse me of not wanting to accept my aging. I'm reinforcing forward progress with this hair - that there's nothing "wrong" with me... and that I do MATTER, to ME... enough to, take care of myself and work toward the rest of my goals. It feels like I'm bribing myself or tricking myself sometimes... and maybe I am tricking that old "body memory" into accepting a change from it's old, yucky past... into trying something new that feels better. (All's fair in LOVE and working on oneself... getting well and healthy and happy).

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on July 26, 2012, 02:00:36 AM

First some good news: Although I didn't register any loss in pounds, I did lose 5 inches in various measurements around my body and 1 1/2 % body fat, while gaining 3 lbs of lean muscle from when I started with this training program 2 weeks ago. So If I had just lost fat, I would have shown about a 3 lb loss.  Pretty good, I think. Being able to measure body fat and lean body mass helps me visualize what is happening inside my body, rather than just relying on the scale for information and validation. 

Hops:

Think Harper Valley PTA.

I too have often wondered why the "other woman" gets blamed when a man can't keep his pants on.  Are men really that stupid that they cannot be held accountable for their actions?  Can you imagine what would happen if a man renigged on a car note? "I couldn't help it, Mr. Collections Agent.  See, this little Ferrari started coming around and I just had to have it, and I gave all my car payment money to the Ferrari dealer.  It was the Ferrari's fault.  If my sedan didn't want me to cheat on it, it should have tried to be more like the Ferrari and then I would still be paying the sedan note. Can't we start over?" :roll:

I know there are a lot of armchair theories about why women get into the sex/entertainment biz, and most of them are wrong.  Many of us come to it through desperation or lack of better prospects, but that is the same for any job that requires more native intelligence and street smarts than credentials  and formal education. Nobody sits around saying that coal  miners or commercial fishermen or waitresses or slaughterhouse workers do their dead end jobs because they were abused or coming from a place of hurt or pain.  They needed a job and the one they have pays the bills.  Every business makes its money on the backs of its labor force.  The difference with sex/entertainment workers is America's puritanical view of these women and men, so that no laws are ever passed to protect them.  Therefore it is easier for management to exploit them.  I have heard it said that a high percentage of women in the business have been abused.  I think a high percentage of women in general have been abused.  If the number is higher in my business, I would argue that we as a group are more desensitized to sexual situations and therefore have more ability to cope with the artificial intimacy in the club. (For example, I have absolutely no issues about being seen nude and never have, since before I was of legal age, being seen nude was the least of the things that had happened to me.)

I'm not sure if I want to go to any kind of special women's group, since I probably would not fit in there, anyway.  From what I see of these women, they really are actually nice people.   I am getting to know them around the common cause of supporting our kids and I like that.  My big fear is that I will turn out to be totally unacceptable to them, that they will be nice to my face but talk behind my back, suspect me of all kinds of horrible stuff, not because of my work (they don't know) but just because I'm me, especially if I am attractive.  I have seen a lot of women act that way, in many social settings (including the leaders of the cub-scout pack) and I h ave a gut feeling that I would make a nice target.  I am terrified of being talked about. One of the worst things I can imagine is having people be nice to your face and then talk about you behind your back.

I am in a weird place where I pretty much like myself most of the time, but I am more afraid other women will judge me on my appearance or just not "get" me and form unfairly poor opinions of me.  My real porblem here, I think, is a deep suspician that women are just like that, that it is carried in the chromosomes or something, and that there is no escape.  The more I move toward my goal, the more I also move into the crosshairs of female rancor.

Twoapenny--
I missed this the first time, but you are right, I believe i do  have an ingrained sense of "dieting is miserable and you won't get what you want out of it, so why bother?" It could very well be a body memory, although I had never thought about that before.  I do carry all my excess weight on my front, like a shield, and it has been there for as long as I can remember.  I think it is supposed to be there to protect me.  As I build muscle, I hope I can let the fat go.  I can protect myself now; I dont need a fatty blanket to do it for me.

Phoenix--

I completely relate about your toxic ball of  yarn--its so jumbled up, isn't it?  I feel like I have one of those skeins where the yarn is colored several different colors on the same string, so it changes as you go along.  See, here I started talking about my weight, and now its about my mother, and no its about my relationships with women.  One thing just keeps leading to another.
 

 I know how it feels to feel beautiful.. I get there once in a while.  I enjoy it for like 2 days, then I am off on a binge again.  I just cannot seem to maintain it. 

Oh, so sleepy.  I have to go to bed soon.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 26, 2012, 09:37:56 AM

Thanks Erin.

Keep talking about this - however it comes out and whichever part of it is "today's focus". They are all connected anyway, I think. And thanks for answering my question! I'm glad to know that you do feel beautiful, sometimes. (It's probably an attention thing - you know: work, kids, the phone rings... and it's of no major "therapeutic" importance... just my curiosity and trying to understand your ball of yarn.)

I guess I'm in thinking mode today - more than talking mode. Be back later...

(((((Erin))))))

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on July 27, 2012, 01:09:33 AM

Its a funny thing, but when I do start to feel good about myself, I immediately start to sabotage and berate myself.  Occasionally the voices in my head speak clearly enough to be understood, and I actually do hear phrases that tell me a lot about myself.  The best one is that I need to be "taken down a notch," followed by a littany of all my body issues.  Like, I iwll look in the mirror and think, hey, I'm actaully kinda pretty.  Then I hear clearly in my head, "You need to be taken down a notch."  Following that, I will start to remember all the things I believe are wrong with me:  I look ok when I am not smiling but my smile is forced and goofy; my dental work shows; my abs and waist re not what they should be; my spider veins are getting worse. And so on.

Once I was feeling particularly vile toward myself, and the voices said, "I need to be punished.  I need to d this to myself." 

I also tell myself a lot of crap about how I don't deserve to eat or don't deserve to have the food I need to stick to my diet.  The other day I nearly had a brekdown because I wanted to go to the gym and Ted had suggested going out to eat.  I felt so selfish for wanting time for myself.  I kept saying I dont deserve to take time for myself and it was selfish of me not to be home doing then for him and Connal and being "in my place" as a wife. 

Speaking of which, I need to do some dishes.  Good night, all.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 27, 2012, 05:37:39 AM

Hi Erin,

Again, I've only skimmed through quickly (hectic times at home at the minute), but first off, I'd guess that if you're working as a dancer and a model you're probably already looking pretty amazing!  I think what I was trying to get at was how to side step that sort of self sabotage.  I've done it all my life - I don't turn up for exams that I could easily pass, I 'left' my dissertation on the train, I meet a great guy and get depressed (unsuprisingly most guys don't want to do date number three at in a psych ward so that ends that), I've set up businesses that I've just abandoned, had great friends that I've not kept in touch with etc etc - and I'm pretty sure now all of that is down to those messages that you talk about - you're only good if you do this and even that isn't enough (incidentally, my mum has the same bat shit crazy ideas about how women interact with other women.  Messed up women act that way, healthy ones don't).  I also had this real need for perfection - if I couldn't do something amazingly then there was no point bothering.  I've always loved to sing, but never took lessons because my voice isn't good enough to be some interntational superstar.  The idea of just singing because I like it and just improving an average voice was completely unpalatable to me.  What I've found helped is breaking things down into little pieces and focusing on one small thing at a time, and that's kind of what I meant by focusing on active goals - and goals were you attain something - rather than numbers (weight and measurements) - and goals where you have to lose part of yourself because you don't think it's an acceptable part of you.  Does that make any sense?  (I always find it hard to know if what I'm trying to say actually makes sense to someone else!).

So in your head, the focus is on say swimming a mile a day (just an example).  A by product of that would be weight loss, muscle tone etc but you're focusing on gaining something (strength, skill, stamina) because you want to and you're good at it, rather than losing something (pounds or inches) that your mum always told you was unacceptable.  Plus you may make new friends based on your interests (sport), you have something to chat to your new mum friends about (one of them might appreciate some help with getting fit, it's the kind of thing that can be easier if you work with someone) and it just gradually becomes more about you achieving things rather than those old messages in your head about what's acceptable to your mum (nothing, because then she has nothing to bitch about).  I just found that I needed to change how I thought about things in order to change those old records.  Something else I noticed was that focusing on other problems - wieght, money, boyfriends whatever - stopped me focusing on what had hurt me and made me feel so wretched for so much of my life.  But I've chipped away at it a tiny bit at a time - there's still more there!

Anyway, hope that might be a bit of a clearer explanation of what I was getting at - not that it shouldn't be about wanting to look good/feel good etc but getting where you want to be in a way that doesn't involve your mum and those old records she plays round and round in your head (I still have them!  To this day every time I see someone, hear something, experience something my first thought in my mind - no word of a lie - is my mum's voice and exactly what she'd say in that situation.  She did that good a job.  I have to say, quietly, in my mind "Shut the f**k up and get out of my head space".  And then decide what I think.  She must go!!  Lol). xx

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on August 01, 2012, 02:12:23 AM

I thought I'd made progress by changing my goal from weight (maybe impossible) to measurements (Do-able and more indicative of what I really want, which is to produce a certain kind of image in photographs) I dont know that there is anything I want to actually do; at least nothing I need to strive for.  I already am physically able to do most anything I want.  I would like to take up figure skating or maybe get good enough at hockey to join a beer league; and I would like to have the time and money to go back to pole dancing lessons.  That might be something I could work on. 

I realized something the other day--I have a hard tome dressing in an appropriate way.  Sunday I had to take the chickens for a blood test so we can show them in the county fair.  I had a new pair of denim shorts--the kind that fit like skinny jeans and come to just above the knee--and a completely ordinary t-shirt, the kind that fits close to the skin, not a baggy one.  I put it on, found it was extremely flattering in a casual, not-trying-at-all kind of way, and immediately decided it was too tight and looked slutty.  I ran it by Ted, who stood me in front of the mirror, pulled the shirt back tight and up to show my belly, and said, Now THAT looks slutty.  You look just fine.

I saw the difference after he showed it to me, but I realized I really do have a problem with thinking any flattering outfit, especially one that shows my figure, is automatically slutty.  So hard to know the difference some times.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: sKePTiKal on August 01, 2012, 07:49:33 AM

Quote

I saw the difference after he showed it to me, but I realized I really do have a problem with thinking any flattering outfit, especially one that shows my figure, is automatically slutty.  So hard to know the difference some times.

Man, did this sound familiar to me! You know how we say Nmoms gave us mixed messages? Prime example.

It works sorta like this - I'm gonna use parentheses to include the "subtext" - the contradictory message inside the words that gets kids all mixed up and confused... and then that becomes these habits that keep following us, as adults.

There are just some clothes that are cut exactly right to flatter our particular bodies; the color is pleasing; they "feel" good and generate that positive, confident, well-being glow just to be in them. As kids, these are our favorites and we'd wear them all the time if we were allowed.

So: Nm says "Go get dressed and put on something nice". (I want to impress people and you WILL NOT look like a ragamuffin and embarrass me.)

Kid puts on those "magic clothes" and returns. Nm says: "OH NO... you're not going out looking like that! What were you thinking? What's wrong with you?" (How DARE you look so much prettier, happier and healthier than I do??) Nm's green with envy - so automatically "blames/shames" the kid.

When kid is older - and that's a range of ages, really - when she (especially she) is old enough to follow fashion and is experimenting with the idea of how to express herself - with clothes & accessories - to say: I'm like 'everyone else'... but also like me, too, at the same time... kid is old enough to be at the awareness stage of feeling included (group acceptance), feeling autonomous (uniquely you), and is normally quite perceptive and emotionally sensitive to kid group social cues.

Parents who are parenting, recognize this stage and the emotional minefield that it is. Parents need to start letting go, in phases. Kid is starting to push boundaries, too... the "you can't tell me who I am, what to wear, how to look, or what to do" stage. It's a volatile, tricky point in everyone's growth/development - especially, I think for mom's and daughters - NORMALLY.

Nms don't recognize that anything is different about kid - in their mind, the relationship remains the same: Nm is totally in control and D is persona non grata --- EXCEPT as how you reflect Nm back to her and the false image she projects out to the world. The LAST thing Nm wants to admit in this stage of growth in D, is that she is an autonomous individual -- that is actually a threat to Nm's fragile, self-constructed fantasy of total power and control. The healthier the D is, the more control an Nm will exert over her - almost making her a prisoner - because she is envious, jealous of the D and her healthy personality. As a teen with an Nm, it's like a daily dose of evil, critical, bitch... there is no escape, yet we desperately try... like a bird that gets trapped inside the house.

Sometimes, Nms will project their feelings/attitudes about themselves onto the D -- this is the "you're just like me" statements. Like, you're so fat you need to diet just like me. This is one form of control - like brainwashing. When it starts when you are a kid, the beginnings of that tangled mess are buried deep, deep within oneself. We want to follow "the rules", we want to "be good girls", we want mom to love us unconditionally... that is just as normal as breathing. So we do what Mom asks/tells/insists we do to get in her good graces. Then, when we do succeed (lord knows we're motivated enough!) - all it does is contrast so clearly with Nm's lack of success... she feels entitled to be selfish, jealous and mean... (Your success makes me feel bad - it's all your fault.)...
that she just dumps all those negative feelings on to kid.

Kid is appropriately confused as hell. This over here is "good" - you did this; and now it's "bad". And on top of that, you MADE Nm feel bad about herself too... but you weren't trying to... you were doing what she said to do...

... and kid thinks: I can't do anything right. Screw it. It's not worth trying anymore. There's something wrong with me that I can't MAKE Nm happy with me... there's something wrong with ME, that Nm doesn't love me the way I am.

With me so far? OK... now lets say Nm has conflicting feelings about her own sexuality. Maybe she blames/hates men... they're only after one thing, you know... they have no real "feelings"... maybe she's completely at odds with how she looks, how she feels about how she looks, is totally jealous and paranoid about all other women... and this whole ball of yuck is threatening to overwhelm and destroy her fantasy of being the "most beautiful of them all", the most powerful of them all...

in her so-called relationship with a D, she pushes, insinuates, i.e. projects those feelings onto D as well -- which temporarily puts the "problem" she's dealing with... outside of herself. "You're like me, when I was your age. You're just like me." When she's watching you go through the same thing - that is unresolved for her - she is using you to try to solve or reconcile her own inner conflict (she's not accepting responsibility for her own feelings - that "you make me feel... statement" gets slightly adjusted to the "judging/criticism" channel: why do you dress so sexy? you look like a tramp! If you dress like that, don't be surprised when men get the wrong idea. I suspect - at least for me - this is how my inner critic got so strong and out of control.

I KNOW, from my own similar experience with my mom... that my distorted perception of myself was directly due to not being able to tell my own real feelings apart from all the stuff my mom projected into/onto/around me. It was terrifying what she did. At a sanity/primal level... and I learned to cope, as a kid... by completely hiding my "self"... even trying to hide it from my own mind -- so I wouldn't unconsciously telegraph something that would bring down the "dragon lady" on the last shred of self-respect which I clung to with my psychological fingernails. Very few other things in life were as terrifying as that experience.

So - the "work" of repair to the self - can be done with journals. Separating, remembering, "hearing" the voices in one's mind... of you, yourself, Erin... and untangling that from Nm's projection, jealousy, and control-issues. Writing down all those times, that one remembers... you start to hear your own self - loud and clear. Boy, is she pissed!!   ;)   She can/will work through that and eventually let it go. She will learn to let go of Nm's ideas about her - to actually return them; give them back to where they came from (an emotional, NO THANK YOU) - and a very large weight will be lifted from her. Sometimes, that translates via the mind-body connection physically, too.

Something else that helps -- is to counter the messages that Nm stuck in your head with what other think. To take a poll, so to speak. Of people you trust, and maybe even total strangers. When everything is tallied up, you'll find out that Nm is the ONLY one who thinks/thought those things about you. Other people have completely different perceptions of you... and she can't be the expert/authority on YOU - because a.) she lives in a bubble that only consists of her and b.) she doesn't even SEE you - who you really are - most likely. [Yeah, that's a tough one to swallow; but it explains SOOO much.]

So it's your perception of you... versus Nms perception of you. The fight of the century! But it's all within your own thoughts and feelings about yourself. It's not like she's constantly "at you" now... her work is all done -- she's succeeded at making you as miserable as she is. She's off and about spreading the "joy" elsewhere now. That is a huge advantage to you, you know.

While she's not reinforcing the old feelings and messages and projections -- you can purge all the crap that's "not you - it's Nm" from your perception of yourself. Peel it off, throw it out, save it in a box, bag or book -- and give it back to her metaphorically.

It doesn't belong to you. You don't deserve it. You didn't "earn" it. It's NOT YOURS. Return to sender.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Overcomer on August 06, 2012, 01:29:35 PM

Erin.  I haven't been to the board for a long time.  When I logged in your thread immediately caught my eye.  Oh my!!  Did it resonate with me.

As a youngster my mom would call me "Fat Fat."  Now she is constantly reminding me and my daughters how she stays skinny.  However, her bird like eating does nothing for the constant constipation she has.  We have all told her to make sure she eats fiber so she will go.  She does not listen.

Unfortunately, those brain patterns are hard wired into our brains.  It is so hard to rewire the brain washing we endured.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Hopalong on August 06, 2012, 07:52:06 PM

You know those amazing retractable cords that are in most new vaccuum cleaners?

Sometimes I think Nmothers have uber-secret-engineered NASA-type (no offense, Mars, hello) umbilical cords, which when everybody else just thinks...ahh, now that's severed so we move on to the separate human being part, and maybe they hide them under their hospital gowns, or have a subdural spring-loaded coil housing for them that's invisible on medical exams, so when the baby (especially the baby-daughter) gets home, it turns out she's still plugged into Mama, and Mama comes soooooo close, and that's all good while one is concentrating on getting through infancy, but then the self, rather the Self, is supposed to start straining the leash, but NMom's invisible-retractable umbilical is soooooooooooooooo sophisticated that even when little Self is alone in its room or reading a book, one punch (of Nmom's trigger finger) on the button under her rib, and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzhhhhhhhhooooom, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiipppppppppp, here comes little daughter, flopping and strangling, but absolutely, completely unable

NOT
TO
HEEL

(I believe I morphed this metaphor from umbilical cord into retractable dog leash, but if the leash fits....)

Aaarrrggghh.

Woof.

Hops

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Ales2 on August 06, 2012, 08:26:53 PM

Hi All - Very interesting thread. A suggested reading is the chapter on food in THE MOTHER FACTOR by Stephen Poulter. You can probably access it online at Amazon or check a library. His observations about the reasoning behind Nmothers obsessions with food and weight is explained.

Hello and hope all is well here with everyone.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: sKePTiKal on August 07, 2012, 07:01:56 AM

Hops, leashes wear out... break... from overuse.

I had to recover from laughing on the floor before I could even type - that is absolutely a great image!

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: sKePTiKal on August 09, 2012, 06:43:03 AM

Erin:

Thinking about those self-sabotage feedback loops -- and how to get out of them this morning, a thought suddenly occurred to me. Thought I'd pass it on and maybe it'll snowball into something useful; if not -- well, we can always keep plugging along.

Thought was: that NMs are ALL about "rules"... problem with their rules, is that not even they knew what the rules were consistently. One day we don't eat enough... the next day we eat too much... according to "SHE who makes the RULES and is always RIGHT".

I think in a primal attempt to have my own autonomy - independence of thought, feeling and action - I decided to "break the rules" at some point. Out of frustration, I'd guess, at trying to "be a good girl and follow the rules"... because everytime you think NOW, I'm sure to gain approval or love or respect... the rules changed again. In my case, I deliberately chose things that are supposed to be "bad for you". Out of frustration at trying to figure out the mystery of what I could do to earn that NM "gold star" seal of approval... at least there was no uncertainty about the things on her "bad" list, you know? That was easier, clearer. (Even if it didn't help me be happier or like myself more.)

I wonder if it's possible to help break those old, bad habits by proposing to break the rules -- in a healthy, happy, good for our Self way?

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on August 10, 2012, 01:35:00 AM

I am getting a very clear picture of the self-sabotage I am committing.  It is sort of creepy.

Yesterday I found out that in spite of having been camping at the county fair for a week, living on peanut butter and fair food (fair fare?) I had actually lost 3 pounds! Now this should have been cause for celebration, right?  What a pleasant surprise.

Ummm......not so much.

What happened instead was, I got depressed.  I went psychotic on my husband because he smelled up the house with pop-tarts and didn't save any for me.  I slammed cupboard doors.   I broke down in tears. I started a binge.


It started with a little sneaky bit of candy from the health food store.  Hey, nobody has to know, right?  Then it was an extra piece of pizza for dinner, because I conveniently "forgot" I had had too much bread for lunch.  Then the horrible meltdown over the poptarts and the culmination of smearing peanut butter all over a fiber-1 brownie because it was the only thing I had left in the house that would satisfy my need to for something sweet and damaging. 

Fortunately I didn't get too far because I am adept at recognizing the bingeing behavior and putting a stop to it. It also helps that I have packed the house with diet foods, like 100-calorie snack packs and fat-free everything, so I can't do as much damage as I could have.  I stop because as soon as I recognize a binge for what it is, I get scared.  Not only do I fear the weight gain, but I also hate the out-of-control feeling.  It gives me flashbacks to sitting on the floor in my mother's house, in front of the cabinet with all the sweet gooey things in it, and just stuffing my mouth as fast as I could until the very last minute when I would have to leave for my paper route or work.  I have started putting together weird food combinations again, too, like peanut butter on a brownie. 

The interesting thing is that, this time I had the very clear understanding that I was intentionally trying to hurt myself with food.  It was almost as if someone had said to me, "Somebody around here does not want you to achieve your goals, and now you have made progress, you must be thwarted."

There are other career and life issues going on right now, which leads me to consider all the failed enterprises and self-defeating poor choices in my past and to feel that I am destined to repeat this loop again and again forever.


ETA: I did my food diary on MyFitnessPal.com, and it turns out I dint do that much damage to myself over all.  My calorie counts were high, but the workouts at the gym saved me.  I guess things could be worse.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: sKePTiKal on August 10, 2012, 08:22:51 AM

Quote

The interesting thing is that, this time I had the very clear understanding that I was intentionally trying to hurt myself with food.  It was almost as if someone had said to me, "Somebody around here does not want you to achieve your goals, and now you have made progress, you must be thwarted."

There are other career and life issues going on right now, which leads me to consider all the failed enterprises and self-defeating poor choices in my past and to feel that I am destined to repeat this loop again and again forever.

Bear with me, Erin... I know how it feels, when you say the urge to eat like this feels out of control... and even though it feels that way; it isn't. I know, that for myself, this kind of eating is a substitute - call it a pacifier - for what I really need; what I really am feeling (and trying to avoid feeling). I even have a half-memory of my Nmom telling me: here, eat these potato chips... you'll feel better and forget all about - whatever you angry about, sad about, whatever. It's a kind of "numbing out" eating, for me. That's thing 1, that I know. (These are all like individual "clues" -- but I don't know how they all fit together exactly; what the narrative is.)

Thing 2, is that this "need" is overwhelmingly compelling. I simply can't focus on anything else, until the need is met or placated. I've been known to have the meltdowns you describe... until allowed to "feed that need". Stress will strengthen and empower this "need"... and the more I try meet that stress with denying myself... the bigger the meltdown.

As far as being thwarted about your goals... it's Thing 3 -- or maybe 5 or 6, I'm not really sure. I do know, that mine feels as though it's a being with it's own consciousness, goals, and it's purpose in life is to disrupt: to laugh at those goals I set... and prove that I'm not worthy to even entertain such basic human endeavors... after all, who do I think I am??  As many times as I've tried to face mine head on, and bring it to heel - control it through direct force - I've lost... even though I occasionally get glimpses of the face that belongs to this "disrupter". It is in so much pain... that it lashes out with teeth, claws, blows and words at even the most innocent kind "contact"... to hurt me. This is why, I've shifted to slowly changing the behaviors of this inner creature -- approaching it sideways, never looking it in the eyes, moving very, very, very slowly and softly. A while back, I started calling it my inner "feral cat"... and it's like that. The only way to tame it, is with the "horse whisperer" technique, total unconditional kindness, olympian patience, and enlisting the curiosity and participation of the cat... to "forget" it's agenda to thwart. Gaining it's trust in other words.

It's only my theory - so who knows if it applies in your situation or if there's anything valid to it - but I think this poor inner feral cat consciousness came into being as an EXPRESSION of the mutually exclusive emotional reality of what one expects in the way "nurturing" from a "mom"... and the opposite reality of pain/abuse experienced at the hands of that mom-person. And that thwarting compelling need can be triggered by both having a day when everything seems to go wrong and is totally difficult... AND experiencing genuine human kindness from others. Perhaps, stuck in a hidden fold of your brain, is one of those mortally painful experiences where your mom used food as weapon of hostility against you... an undeserved, unfair punishment... or as a form of control: to avoid actually giving you the encouragement you needed and the recognition of achievement you so deserved... I don't know - but it sounds like you're getting close to figuring it out.

More practical feedback: I've read that "not eating" or severely restricting calories - for most people - backfires. I've noticed, for myself that if I do remember to eat a little breakfast, then lunch and a light dinner... I sort of "vaccinate" myself against that need to binge, mindlessly. When I'm eating like that - yes, a few pounds drop - and it's not a total mystery, because when I relax - drop the draconian "YOU MUST ONLY EAT THIS MANY CALORIES" and stop stressing about "CONTROL YOURSELF" kinds of messages - when I relax, in other words... my cortisol hormones calm down; my body (yes, it has it's own kind of brain/feeling) doesn't feel as stressed - threatened - so the racing adrenalin doesn't feed that "compelling need"... and I simply don't think about or feel I need to substitute empty calorie food... for that empty emotional hole.

For me, those kinds of "rules" are useless... because it was the same technique that Nmom used that hurt me. That IS a kind of endless loop... and one CAN break out of it and weaken it. The only thing that worked for me - was self-kindness; understanding why I do this; and forgiving myself for not having able to protect myself better from the old dragon-lady Nmom.


(((((((((((((((Erin)))))))))))))))))

The "problem" isn't you, hon... You are just fine! You're smart, caring, witty, and I'll bet gorgeous, too -- just the way you are. Your life and happiness don't depend on being a certain weight - and when the "importance" of getting to that weight is more reasonable to you - it might also get a little easier.

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Hopalong on August 11, 2012, 08:07:52 AM

Hi Erin,
Something jumped out at me and in the way that dreams aren't literal but still have truth, I felt something very hopeful when I read it.

You said:

Quote

....this time I had the very clear understanding that I was intentionally trying to hurt myself....

And then next:

Quote

...I am destined to repeat this loop again and again forever.

My mind said, well, what if time isn't quite as linear as we think, and that even if this mental experience felt like Thought One which was then undermined, cancelled, or defeated by Thought Two...maybe it's not so? Maybe BOTH thoughts are in active dialogue (among others) with your deep inner life-loving self, and your mind is actually full of Good New Things?

But you noticed both thoughts, which allowed this to happen. What jumped out for me was seeing your post this way:

Quote

...I [considered I] am destined to repeat this loop again and again forever....BUT....this time I had the very clear understanding that I was intentionally trying to hurt myself.

Once epiphanies, understandings, window-opens-rational moments like that shed light into the mind, even if momentarily -- I believe that light doesn't go out again. (It can get obscured, but its energy is still there, like a light-seed.)

I am mixing metaphors again, but I think there are "thought-seeds" and you sowed one.

The old "doom loop thought" is about a mechanical future, and no matter what/how/where you think it, you are not a machine. It may be familiar but despairing/negative/hopeless thoughts are chlorophyll-free, emotionally. The doom loop thought is like a "styrofoam seed" -- made of something toxic, and no life in it.

So I loved reading (no matter what "logical" order it originally appeared in) your beautiful seed-thought:

I had the very clear understanding

Suddenly, clearly understanding what you were doing at the moment IN that moment? That's HUGE! Clarity and understanding are life changing. It's like...a crack in the dike, a seed coat splitting. It's not meaningless, that you had "the very clear understanding." It's wonderful. To me, it sounds like the kind of watershed thought that actually changes a life. (Watch for it. In small ways. There will be more.)

As small a seed-thought as that can heave up sidewalks, create extraordinary canopies, beautiful bark, swaying, sounds of wind, safe places for a child to climb, and beauty that is only more inspiring, the older it gets.

love,
Hops

Title: Re: The worst thing anybody ever said to me (the eating disorder that will not die)
Post by: Redhead Erin on August 11, 2012, 12:15:38 PM

Ok, a hot cup of coffee and a Saturday morning, and I can get my thoughts together.....

First, thank you guys all so much for being there for  me.  I come back to this thread and read the posts over and over.  You are really wonderful. 

Hops...your mixed mataphores are wonderful!  They remind me of "Fractured Fairy tales" From the Rocky and Bullwinkle show http://www.brownielocks.com/fracturedfairytales.html.  (http://www.brownielocks.com/fracturedfairytales.html.)

Alles--I found a bunch of stuff about that author on line.  He is also concerned with the effect of missing fathers in popeles lives, which is something else I might learn from, considering I lost my father when I was 13

There is so much in all your letters that I want to reply to.... and I can't do it this morning, unfortunately.  but here are a few highlights:

**I have been waiting until I have a "perfect" body to peruse some of my other goals, like getting my personal trainer licence, selling "me" merchandise on line, and thinking about starting  a business that will last until and hopefully through retirement. I have also been a big weenie about getting more pictures taken for my website, fussing about not being sure of my "artistic vision" and other such nonsense.   

8Well, today I sent a proposal to the small business mentoring agency SCORE, (See my other thread http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=10066.0 (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=10066.0)). 

*I have decided that my "artistic vision" for my site is just what it has always been--fun, playful pin-ups with a modern twist, and I am going to carve out time to work on this next week.  There is a bunch of stuff I need to do, and if I don't do some of it soon, I will run out of pictures and lose my site on the big server. I have considered whether I want to quit when the pictures run out, and I am really not ready yet.

* I have made up some new goals.  I don't know exactly how this operated in my mind, but I started with an issue of Mary Jane's Farm, a magazine I bought in a health-food store.  Turns out there is a whole on-line are real community where you can meet other women with similar interests and even earn badges (like girl scouts) I made up my mind right there to earn the Entrepreneurial Spirit badge, because there was a short mention of some ohter member who had done it and use it as a tool to start a business.  The first step of the badge is to write a business plan, so off I go! I found the SCORE webiste, submitted an request, and soon will have a mentor to help me write a plan.  I also have free online plan template I am going to use for my website business, to bring it around more to what I want it to be. 

**Some other goals I came up with include taking ice skating lessons, continuing pole-dance lessons (I would like to get certified as an instructor someday, but it takes years...) and horseback riding lessons (more physically demanding than you might think, especially since I am going to pay for said lessons by cleaning stalls, just like when I was a kid! ).  I would like to participate in the year-end performances with the ice skating and the pole dance. 


There is more I want to say, but I dont have time now.  I love all of you and thank you so much for being here on this journey.  (Oh, now I'm going to tear up-----)

'Bye now!

PS..do you know my hands were shaking as I wrote about my progress and goals, something that NEVER happens when I am writing about misery, sorrow, and being stuck? Wonder what's up with that.......