Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: finding peace on September 16, 2012, 10:49:27 PM
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Why, why, why,
sorry folks I know you are all dealing with your own personal demons.
My home life is shattered.
Why :cry: can life never be peacful?
Pain
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Finding Peace, I feel your pain! It is hard. It's a long, lonely battle and there have been times I wished I was dead, times I've thought, "Why not just be an alcoholic/do drugs/shop compulsively", anything to get away from it and not feel it, experience it, be part of it.
But ......................... I've learnt something from every painful experience. Sometimes I've gone through the same experience dozens of times before I've learnt anything, but eventually the penny's dropped. Now when something that I don't like happens, I find myself being more analytical about it, looking at it as a way to learn more about me, myself, my life. It still hurts, it still causes confusion, it still makes me feel tired. But it's a lot more manageable than it used to be.
And I think I've found peace now. I don't know for sure. Sometimes you can coast along and everything's okay and something trips you over. But for now, life feels peaceful - partly because there just aren't many people in my life any more, but that's what suits me - a few good people, who cope with their own lives pretty well, and a real restriction on the ones who cause the dramas, or add to them (or stop me resolving them).
Don't give up. Focus on the here and now. Do something that immediately calms you - herbal tea, meditation, a long walk/swim/run, read a book, garden, whatever you find peaceful. Can you change anything about the situation by changing your response to it? Is there anyone you can avoid, even just for a few hours? Can you change the dynamic by saying no, or not right now, or no thanks, I'm not interested? I do believe peace is there for everyone, it's just very well hidden at times. Don't give up xxx
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Hiya, peace...
I'm all ears when you're ready to spill the beans. Sorry it's turned sour on ya.
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Sending comfort, Peace...
Please don't apologize for being upset on the board.
Hearing voices is what we're here for...upset voices, too.
Want to talk about it?
with love,
Hops
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((((((((((((((Finding Peace)))))))))))))
Hugs, shared tears, shared hope,
tt
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Here and ready to listen......((((((((((((((((((((Peace)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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((((FP))))
It's going to be OK again.
Light
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((((((((((((((((((Peace))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I hear ya!!!
Alcoholism is a HELLISH disease. It sounds as if he is still on what is called "a Dry Drunk". The alcohol may be absent, (for now), but the sick behaviors are all still there. Based on what I'm reading, I presume he is not going to AA nor has an AA sponsor.
Have you had the opportunity to talk to someone in Al-Anon, the support group for families of alcoholics? They can help save your sanity and the sanity of your children.
Just my two-cents' worth.
Bones
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Awwww Peace... :(
It's not your fault. You're not having a pity party, either.
You are only as strong as you are - for yourself, your D, for your family. You can't carry hubby's burden along with that, too. What's not fair, is that he's expecting you to help carry it. And in the process, his "illness" is going to drag you down too. Unless you say NO.
Bones is right; Al-anon will help some. It'll help sort out the tangles of over-responsibility, enmeshment, protecting the person causing the distress, and help you define what your own limits are. My own experience is that it's the drinking itself... that attempts to make the people around the drinker, responsible - in all kinds of ways - for how "well" the drinker is doing. Up to a point. Then, the drinking double-dares the responsible supporters to prevent the drinker from doing him or herself in... drinking. It's not possible to win against that level of addictive intent and it's not possible to reason with it, either. The costs - the real risks - of attempting to intervene, interrupt, or divert this intent can be exorbitantly high for those who try.
You're being traumatized, kiddo. In your attempt to care for someone who isn't going to cooperate. Even if he says he wants to -- unless he recognizes that all the yuck and chaos is created precisely from his drinking -- he can't accept the responsibility for what it's effects have been on anyone; not even himself. It's almost impossible to get people so far into the clutches of that destructive intent -- to want to get help.
(Insert giant, never ending hug here, OK?)
But you can help you and your family. You have to be the cavalry that rides to the rescue and helps get them to a calm safe place. I know you can do that. It'll be way easier to do this, if you have help where you are. Start with Al-Anon. Ask for referrals to what you need, the practical things... take it one step at a time. You do need to be able to rest, to be able to live life without wondering all the time, when the other shoe is going to drop... and these folks KNOW and CARE about the kinds of things you've been going through.
You don't have to struggle with this, all by yourself.
(More hugs....)
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I'm hoping these links might help:
http://www.al-anon-alateen-msp.org/pages/AboutAlcoholism.html
http://alanon.activeboard.com/t27785416/dry-drunk-syndrome/
And the following quote helps me:
"I have to remind myself of the three C's, I didn't cause it I can't control it, I can't cure it."
Bones
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Yup yup yup....
Al-Anon, FP.
You've carried so much, for so long.
Some of the burden isn't yours to carry, and I find myself wondering why you, so wise when viewing the problems of others here this board, can't see what's plain to us.
You can't save people from themselves. It's impossible.
You must save yourself, even if you don't know how, you must learn.
Even it if breaks your heart and rips you in two, you find a way, begin to mend, and become stronger..... to show your children how to do it.
What do you or your husband, or your children gain from the hours of arguing every night?
You're trying to "help" your husband take responsibility, when his goal is to continuing shifting blame onto your shoulders.
Shoulders strong enough to carry it.
Shoulders used to carrying it.
Why? It's not yours to carry.... time to learn what's yours and what's his.
Time top step back.
Bow out.
Allow your h to take the responsibility of his actions, bc you've layed them at his feet, silently, without argument that he must pick it up.
Or not.
You didn't cause his sickness.
You won't be the person who convinces him to change, or begin fixing it.
You're more than willing to take responsibility, but it's time to wisely assess what part is yours......
and what part belongs to your h.
Yes, it will harm your children if your h can't find the strength and will to grow through his alcoholism and get better, but it's not good for them to watch you carrying this man, arguing uselessly with him, saving him from certain destruction while he blames you, and stand for it. Better for him to find his precipice himself and either turn away or jump, but you carrying him off that precipice, over and over again, is prolonging what must come sooner or later.
Maybe it's time to go, FP? Take your children to a place with peace, and calm, and give them the stability all children need, away from the crazy?
What do you want your children to learn about adult man/woman relationships that they can't learn from watching their parents locked in this terrible dance of addiction, co-dependance, and emotional turmoil without relief?
I think you will find powerful relief in accepting the truth of your situation.....
your husband is sick, and you didn't cause that, and you can't fix that.
He's got to do it for himself, and all the writhing, and trying and carrying of this man is only putting off the envitable choices everyone eventually has to make for themselves.
(((((FP)))))
I have to admit I'm a little relieved that you're physically healthy, and have your IL's help in this...... I was afraid of so many things for you when I read your first post.
Perhaps it's time to hand your h over to the IL's and step back in peace with your children?
How old are your children, FP? Maybe you and your children can go to Al-Anon, there are different groups, and find relief together?
Lighter
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(((((((FP)))))))))
It was so good to read you say, "I am done."
For the rest, I echo Alanon, and all that Lighter said.
You cannot "be right" or "win an argument" with a blaming alcoholic.
"Dry" or "wet" -- the blaming game means the illness is nowhere near cured.
But you can sacrifice your very life, and your children's possibility for a mentally healthy future...by trying to win.
I also suggest talking to a women's shelter. You have not described extreme violence and I don't fear
that for you. But I think you are not recognizing what is abuse (in the sense that abusive behavior,
no matter what the cause of it....means--you're done.)
Done, as in ready to take action for your own life, and your children's.
with love, courage...
Hops
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Oh Peace. It's very common for alcoholics - or drug addicts, or gamblers, or any other category of people with problems - to blame those closest to them for the things that go wrong and to fail/refuse to see that anything is their fault or their responsibility. Your situation sounds terrible - it's not a pity party so please don't think of yourself in that way. You mention leaving - can you do that? Can you take the kids and go? Or get some sort of order put in place where he has to leave and you and the kids can stay? I don't know how it all works where you are (I'm assuming your in the States?). I know in the UK those are options. But please don't blame yourself for any of this. You sound like you need head space to get yourself clear. Keep posting. People on here care about you.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Finding Peace)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((Finding Peace)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Peace, hon...
we ain't goin' anywhere! Be right here when you have time. You just take care of you & kiddos right now...
and we'll send ya a bouquet of white light support and prayers and hope that comfort starts to envelope you with rest.
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(((FP)))
I'm so sorry, but I can't help but feel relief that you asked your h to leave.
I feel deeper relief that he's left your home without drama, violence or even small pushes and pinches.
THAT had to end, no matter what.
I'm hoping you've done some research to find Al-Anon groups for you and your children..... everyone will benefit, and Lord knows your children deserve age appropriate explanation that makes sense of all this, and perhaps to be with other children in the same boat. Your children probably feel pretty isolated and alone in this, and they should know that's not at all the case.
Their father's sick. He has an illness.
He can get better, and there are ways to support him in that, or enable him out of it.
Information is power.
::sending strength and light to you and your family, FP::
It's going to be OK.
Lighter
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((((((((((((((((((((((((finding peace))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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You did the right thing, Peace.
The storm of emotion will pass -- hold on, one hour/day at a time.
The pain will pass, you just live through it.
For yourself, and for your children.
You WILL be looking back one day, and know that this was the
time you decided to choose peace.
You made the step that will allow it to become possible.
love and comfort,
Hops
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Ahhhh, Peace.
It must be excruciating to live in this terrible space.....
a good friend of mine calls it the abyss.
You can't go back, all comfort and safety have gone.
Going forward? Well.........
that's only an idea right now, and so dreadful painful to contemplate, you're sure you won't survive, but forward you must go, Peace.
It won't really kill you, and it leads to the other side of the abyss. It leads to solace, and serenity, so know you're on your way, even though it's hard to hold in your mind for long. Remember it.
Right now all you can do is teach your children how to survive these things.....
You get them back into as normal routine as you can..... homework, dinner, baths, teeth.
Clean night clothes for everyone, to bed on time, and perhaps a new bedtime ritual..... something that fills the space where your husband used to be, and offers comfort to you all.
Quiet talks about the fears, the the hopes and the needs you all share.
What each of you would like to happen, and what you'll do if it doesn't.
What are their worst fears? Right now they're likely focused on you with their anger and pain, but (I'm so sorry about that) I think you're a safe place to put their blame and anger, bc you've always been the strong one. The safe one. The one they know can take it. What will they have to say after their anger is spent, and acknowledged, and there's room for what comes next? (I assume we're talking about tweens and teens here?)
Perhaps it's time to take the shadows out of the closet, look them over, and see what's there? You can help your children navigate out of this painful place, along with yourself, but I'm thinking members of Al-Anon have been there, done that, and will have loads of good advice to get you through this process with economy of motion.
Self care, FP.
Where are those comfy jammies you used to love to wear in the fall? Can you find them, honor them and make them crisp and fresh and lay them out for this evening's snuggled chats with your children? Sluff in the shower tonight. Work on those callused feet, maybe paint your toes and apricot scrub your face before tucking your children in tonight or whenever you feel strong enough to sit quietly through the hard questions/statements and simply validate those hard feelings. Not respond. Just listen, and slow talk back. Validate so your children can move past the anger.
Are you able to talk to them, FP?
It's so hard for children to think of us as human beings, with feeling and needs...... esp when they've seen their one strong parent hold everything together, without asking for help, for so long. I don't think they know, and maybe it's our job to tell them, but we owe it to them to show them it's OK to ask for help. To accept help...... we can't do everything all by ourselves.... we learned that the hard way, and ya, we failed. We didn't save everyone from everything, and it wasn't for lack of trying. Now, what can we teach? To ask for help, and to be patient and kind and appropriate.
That's a pretty tall order when you're struggling just to keep up with the business of day to day survival.
At some point you'll have an opportunity to explain how you feel to your children, but without blaming anyone else. When your children are asking questions, then you can tell them about you, and how you've been getting through these past years. They don't know, and they haven't had any choices in this, while you and your h have. They need to get all the hurt out, and aren't they lucky to have such a wise, wonderful mother to guide them through this?
Yes, your face is pressed up against the glass, but that won't last forever, FP.
Honestly, getting Al-Anon's help in this will likely give you lots of helpful information going forward, and help you gain perspective more quickly.
You're going to be OK, and so will your children.
There's no going back, only forward.
In the meantime, I picture my friend, FP, in clean sheets chatting with her children about their reality (dim lights, not too much reality please!) understanding that everything will be OK. There are things that must be done, self care chief among them, and the terrible truth............
facing our fears is the only way to banish them for good.
Lighter
ps I've been having such a wonderful time reconnecting with my oldest child, who's been going through a normal middle school disconnect, but so painful nonetheless for me. This morning she put her head on my chest, and chatted easily, calmly, happily, about herself, her class and some of her fears. My oldest loves it when I smell like lavender. She'll remember these times, I know she will, and I make sure my hands are always clean and smell of lavender when I touch her at bedtime and when I Wake her up. Mindful small things help me be present with my children. Rituals help create space to share and feel safe.... to bring us closer. That's what I strive for, FP. You are your childrens' safe place. What will that look like over the next month? 6 months? Year? Maybe it's time to create a new ritual for yourselves..... Something to add strength and support you all, whatever that looks like?
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Hi FP,
I can feel your pain from your posts, so sorry to hear you are going through this.
I agree with all the other posts here and would add trying CoDA - which is co-dependents anonymous - its also a 12 step program for people living with alcoholics/addicts. Its a process - no immediate answers, but offers lots of support. I know, I went and found it very helpful. I still attend when necessary.
When someone is sobering up a bit ...out comes the anger and blame. There are answers out there to deal with the blame and shame triangle and how to deal with the emotional games people play during these times. It might help with coping and finding new solutions.
Wishing you healing and lots of good luck!
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Hi Peace,
Something that I struggled to get my head around for a long time is that allowing people to hurt you doesn't help them. It means they can keep avoiding dealing with whatever is causing them the pain and instead focus on dishing out to others. I don't mean that in a harsh way; I truly believe people who do unkind things have usually been treated very badly themselves and don't know another way. If no-one stops them, they never learn a different way.
From what you've written it sounds as if your hubbie would be happier, healthier, stronger if he stopped drinking - and perhaps the drink is how he copes with his pain? If he's going to stop drinking he will need to find another way to deal with his hurt. And it will hurt, it will rip him to pieces if he's going through anything like the things most of us have been through, but when he comes out the other side his life will be so much fuller, so much more enriched.
You can be supportive without putting up with abuse. You can make it clear to him that it's certain aspects of his behaviour that you are rejecting, not him as a person. You can remind him of the good things in him, you can tell him how thankfull you are that you have your beautiful children (if you feel any of that is appropriate). But we all need lines in the sand, and we need other people to respect them - particularly for those of us who find drawing those lines difficult.
And I do feel that we re-live experiences - I think it's how we learn our lessons. And we do learn eventually. Of course you feel sad. Feeling sad is okay. You're in pain too, don't forget that. My mum's horrendous childhood - and it was horrendous, there's no two ways about that - was what kept me at her side for years. I knew how badly she'd been hurt and I used that to excuse what she did to us. It does make it understandable, from an intellectual point of view - but it doesn't make it acceptable.
You are both hurting. It's a time to look after all of you - and sometimes that does mean being apart. Hold on to yourself, minute by minute - you'll get there (((((((((((((((((Finding Peace)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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FP:
When I read "I asked him to leave, for good" I thought......
well..... she's asked him to remove himself in his present state for the good of the family AND to motivate him to get the help he truly needs, which seems wise and makes the most sense of anything she could be doing right now. Perhaps it will be the motivating factor for him to take a good hard look at himself, and get the help he truly needs.
You didn't ask him to leave when he was drinking, you did it when he was sober and acting out in his dry drunk phase, which everyone is hoping will lead to the next phase........
getting truly sober, and living with sobriety.
It's OK to love your husband in the way you need to love him, right now. Even if it's not the way he wants you to care for him, that;s OK.
Putting distance between you, him and the children means you get to work on you, and he gets to work on him.
It means a safety zone for the children to live in has been established, Peace.
All these things are necessary, and it doesn't mean you've desserted him, or turned your back on his pain.
It means you're both responsible for yourselves, and that you can't fix this for him.
You can't. Accept that. It's a fact. His pain is with him, and it's not you who caused it, and it won't be you who fixes it.
He's going to have to dig deep, and find it in himself to do it for himself, without you there catching, and propping and taking responsibility......
you've done the kindest thing for him that you possibly can under the circumstances.....
you're taking care of yourself and the children.
THAT is all you can do at this time, as hard as it is.
Please do your best, and remember that your husband just might have needed to be put out of the house as a wake up call, he otherwise would not have gotten.
He just might decide he doesn't like the way things are going, and DO something about it.
THAT's the goal here, but that's HIS goal.
What is your goal, in this moment, FP?
You must forgive yourself, be gentle and put your mind into self care rituals, even though you don't feel like it or understand where it's going.
It leads to feeling better, and one good feeling leads to another, IME.
You are going to get through this, things will be OK, even if they're not OK, and your children are learning from you every day.
What will you teach them, FP?
Go out into your yard when you're at your wits end. Wiggle your toes in the cool fall grass. Breath the air and write a list of things you'll do every day, for yourself and your children, that will bring order and feelings of safety back into your lives.
Simple things like this will help, IME.
Do you have a journal? RIGHT NOW is the time to get it out and scream your thoughts into it. Read it, then write again. Read and write. Read. Write.
It will help you understand exactly exactly what about this is hurting so much. You can internalize it, understand it, and deal with it more logically, IME. You can discuss it without becoming overwhelmed, and shutting down.
In the meantime, what do your days look like? (rhetorical) What do you want them to look like? You're teaching every day..... what do you want your children to learn from this?
Lighter
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He is not a bad person, he has had a tremendous amount of pain to deal with throughout his life. More than most will ever have to experience, just like me.
I think I get it (with all of your help), that I have to draw lines in the sand.
But, just like me, he has also had a very painful life.
Where do I draw the line?
How do I desert someone that is causing me pain, because, etc.
I believe you, all of it. People can love people who are in pain and become abusive to express that pain. What I believe is that you will give him an opportunity to save himself if you remove yourself as the whipping post for his lashing out. I'm sorry he's in pain too, but he is a grown human who must decide for himself whether he wants to live and be whole enough to commit to sobriety and completely abandon abuse.
Until then, you must abandon him in order to give him the gift of experiencing his own consequences (because that's the only hope he has). It's not being "mean." It's being deeply adult enough to have respect for the fact that there are forces going on in his life that DO NOT LEAVE ROOM for a healthy relationship with spouse OR child...and given the tenor of the relationship, how toxic and destructive it became (for everyone) -- the adult who has the strength of character to put an end to that sick cycle...is the adult who WILL find peace.
And of course you wish the same for him. But meanwhile it is not uncaring to move on to a better life for yourself and your children. You are grieving, but grief by its nature knows how to eventually pass. And when it does, you will be in spring. And you will be relaxed, and thinking with hope and anticipation about things that aren't even yet in your mind.
Please try to remember that loving yourself enough to take this important step (and not go back) is your first responsibility. To yourself, and to your children.
love
Hops
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I am not playing this cat and mouse (me) game with him anymore.
No more.
It is done.
My emotions are all over the place – it feels like a ping pong ball is ricocheting around my brain until I am too muddled to think clearly – not a good sign. I go back and forth from what is comfortable and known, to what will be completely different.
That is sad. I want the comfort of what I know (which is not healthy for any of us because it leads to pain and dysfunction for all of us), to the unknown; jumping off into the unknown scares me.
Bonsey – your 0.02 is worth 2 million, thank you. I went to the website and wow – you know your stuff and are spot-on! 3c’s – beautiful.
Hops, teartracks, as always … you have a huge piece of my heart! Thank you so much for the support.
Two a penny – thank you so much for your sane, calm, voice; it has helped that ping pong ball slow down – thank you!
Lighter – as always – you have had more than most should ever have to endure – and yet, you are the calming voice (that reminds me – no joke – of the scent of lavender – I grow my own and dry it). Thanks for pitching in for me – sending you light too – wish I could do more to help your never-ending nightmare. It will end – you are so strong.
Ales2 – Thank you – a lot, your post means a lot to me – thank you.
Phoenix – can I share your name – thank you so, so, so much for your support – it helps me find my backbone. I am not backing down this time – no more of that, it is what enabled him in the first place.
I am not blameless – I am not – but neither is he, until he recognizes his part in the madness, we cannot be.
Love you all and cannot thank you enough – I never had this level of support at any time when I was a child – I am not sure I know how to handle it, except to say thank you.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Finding Peace))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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FP:
What Hops said :shock:
She has a way of distilling down, to clearest, most vivid truth, what I wish I could have said, but failed, in ten times the words.
I love the image of your tending lavender, FP....
tying neat little bundles to dry in your window box.
The familiar repetition of garden meditations, helping you fend off the most difficult feelings......
and getting you through and to the other side, uncrushed, and in tact.
Lighter
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((((((F.P.))))))
Sending you lots of strength, peace, love and light. You're an amazingly strong woman and loving mother. Remind yourself a lot that you're not to blame for hubby's disease or his deceptions (those alcoholics are sooooo darn sneaky, as good as deceiving others as they are at deceiving themselves).
so much love and lots of hugs, Kay
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Go ahead and appropriate the name, Peace! It's just a name, the symbolic charm has worn off for me. ;)
I want to quibble with you, tho - over the idea that you're deserting him... He's not a child that needs mothering. As tough as his situation is, he's a grown man and it seems to me...
what you're really doing - is saving yourself, refusing to be the mouse to his cat, and saving your kids...
and giving him the real space to make a real choice for himself about change. No one - not even you, the super-mama, can do it for him. He absolutely HAS to do the work, walk the walk, himself. He can't do that within the comfort zone of the support and safety net the family provides for him. The power of "habit" is too strong in the comfort zone.
(((((((Peace))))))))
Eat well, get plenty of sleep. Don't torment yourself thinking thoughts of over-responsibility for things he needs to do for himself. Keep your thoughts focused on what needs to be taken care of today... tomorrow... one baby-step at a time as you move forward into a new comfort zone.
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You are welcome, Sweet Pea...ce.
And thank you for what you said.
Sometimes when I can get it down and someone finds it really speaks to their need,
I feel as though I've been given a gift too.
So thank you. Helping you makes me feel good.
love and courage == you are through the gate now.
What's on the other side will be different, and that's okay;
you will be okay
love,
Hops
and PS, Lighter, thank you for your kind seeing,
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Hi Hon! How're you holding up?
Are things starting to be calmer now... falls into life-rhythms again?
Are you feeling any better?
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Peace:
Have you found a group (that you like) to help you gain information and support for youself?
You're going to need advocates, and steady souls, who've been where you are to sturdy you up, IMO.
It's OK to reach out for help. You don't have to carry the entire world all by yourself any more.
It's not in your power, so try seeking out people who know where you, and how to get through it, huh?
(((((Finding Peace and family))))
Lighter
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I relate. I relate. I relate. But I keep going back for more. If I could get a divorce and like the movie, Click, fast forward through all of it I would!
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FP:
I'm picturing you sliding down walls, or having contact with your husband during your absence from the board.
It's OK to do either of those things, but I wanted to make sure you're OK.
Lighter
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uh...I second what Lighter asked - are you OK?
Hope you have a minute somewhere to just check in...
Hugs to you
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FP:
It's been over a month since we've heard from you, dear.
Please check in and let us know you're OK..... I have the sense your husband is back in the house.
I'm esp hopeful he agreed to treatment as part of that deal.
Where are you? How are you doing?
Lighter
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Peace,
Just sending you some love and hopes that you are finding some joy in your days. I am so sorry you ahve to go through all of this. Life with an alcoholic cannot be anything other than awful :(
I see you haven't been on in a while and I will be praying your life is on the mend and you are doing better.
Beth