Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: KayZee on September 24, 2012, 02:12:41 PM
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So I've been trying to work up the strength and coherence to write this...The whole thing just makes me feel so trapped and exhausted...
I've been trying to keep NM at bay for the past couple of months. Every week or so she'd tell me (not ask, mind you, and usually with one day's notice) that she was going to come visit. And I kept responding, "No. No. No. It's not a good time. DH and I are under really stressful deadlines. I'll let you know when we're free to meet up. We for sure can't do it until late October. And even then, we will meet you halfway between our house and yours (about 1.5 hrs drive for both of us)." She'd then sulk or gossip about me to other family, saying I refused to let her see her grand kids even though I hadn't said 'no,' I'd simply said 'not now' because we are over-burdened with work and overtired with the kids' schedule.
Blah blah blah, she pulls the same thing with Skype, texting me to say, "Skype with me right now!" And I had to say, "Sorry. We can't now. We have friends visiting for the weekend. But we can Skype you later in the week." I text her later in the week to see if she is free to Skype and she totally ignores me. The trend being: if NM can't have what she wants the minute she wants it, she grows angry and dismissive. It is insane to think a family of four people (with a baby on the way) can drop everything for you at a moment's notice.
SO HERE'S THE REAL ISSUE: NM crashed in on DH and I yesterday. Drove over three hours to our house and arrived totally unannounced, ruining our plans for the afternoon. I knew she was going to do this eventually. I've been sensing it for months. And I thought I was prepared; I always imagined I would go outside and ask her to leave.
But in the moment, I couldn't. I just froze, shut down I was so shocked and let NM and Enabling D inside. There was also this issue: I felt like it was a horrible head game, a set-up. Like I couldn't ask them to leave because if I did I would look like I was the selfish, over-reactive, hateful one. Because it was all just "so innocent" and "loving." And who turns away "sweet old grandparents" who just want to "see their grandkids" and coming bearing a truckload of Trojan Horse presents? NM did not even acknowledge that she had turned up unannounced after explicitly being told it was not a good time.
When NM showed up, I felt this message: I OWN YOU. I WILL DO WHATEVER I PLEASE AND TROUNCE ON WHATEVER BOUNDARIES YOU PUT UP. YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME. And even worse, I felt the deviousness of it all. The gas lighting bit: IF YOU SAY NO TO ME, I WILL MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUY. I WILL TURN EVERYONE AGAINST YOU.
If I wasn't pregnant, and if I didn't have two small children I love more than life itself, I swear I would have done something terribly self-harm-y after NM left. I felt filled with despair and self-hatred. I really wanted, for the first time in years, to drink myself into a black out or slice up my arms. I felt like NM dumped all this hatred and darkness on my door, but at the same time, it was all disguised in this "who-me? I'm-just-a-thoughtful-grandparent" act. It was gaslighting on steroids. And it worked. It made me feel utterly insane and self-loathing.
To make matters worse, DH and I got into a horrible fight after they left. This always happens when we see my parents. But I was so upset. I think, because I felt so gaslighted and mixed up, I wanted/needed to hear someone else confirm that what NM did was messed-up, a perverse power play. (I had been on the phone before that with an uncle NM had got to and told all sorts of lies about how I won't let her see the grandkids but "let my in-laws drop in (FROM F-ING BRITAIN) at a moment's notice (IMPOSSIBLE!)."
Anyway, DH told me the worst thing: That he talks about my mother with me every freaking day and he's sick of it. And that I make every small thing she does into something sinister. Well that just about made me lose my mind. NM has turned everyone in my FOO against me already. And the thought that I have to stuff my feelings with my husband when I already feel so family-less and alone...it was too much. He's since said he was just tired, the weird unexpected visit was too exhausting...He wants me to know I can talk to him about anything. But it still hurts. Still makes me feel like NM can even play and manipulate him, come between us.
The thing I really need advice with is this... I feel I need to put a calm warning in writing to both parents (that my NM can't lie or exaggerate anything to my father). I'm thinking I need to say something like, "Thanks for the gifts. It was good to see you? (Even though it wasn't.) But in the future, DH and I can't do any surprised or unannounced visits." And maybe also something like, "If you turn up here uninvited, we will have to turn you away?" Does anyone have any advice about how to word this stuff? Have any of you written a letter like this before?
I got four hours of sleep last night because I was so upset, angry and stressed out. Who does this to someone who is third-trimester pregnant? I feel like I'm treading water as it is--trying to finish a big project, be the sole breadwinner and running around after two toddlers--but I feel like NM is constantly trying to sink me. I don't have the time or energy for her head games. I feel totally powerless. And pretty alone.
thanks for reading,
Kay x
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(((((((((((((((Kay-Zee)))))))))))))))))))))
I tend to become blunt and rude whenever anyone FORCES an UNINVITED visit on me! I don't know how to word something "diplomatically" to a !@#$ who REFUSED to HEAR me after I had already said NO!
Bones
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Hi Kay. I tried to write a reply last night but I'd had a couple of glasses of wine and I couldn't get my words out :)
Firstly, I wanted to say that you are not on your own, however much it feels like it at times. Remember that when things get tough xx
Secondly, I think your mum will bad mouth you whatever the situation, whatever you do. My feeling is, if I'm going to get bad mouthed I'd rather get bad mouthed for doing something that is healthy for me than bad mouthed for anything (everything) else. It takes courage, and it isn't nice to know you are being slagged off, but boundaries are there for you, not for anyone else and anyone who doesn't respect them doesn't deserve time/space/energy from you. It's easier said than done (and I still have trouble with boundaries) but you are doing this for the right reason and is does get easier with practise.
I think writing a letter is a good idea but.......................be prepared for them to ignore it! Perhaps look at it from your own perspective, make writing the letter about what you feel is right rather than what you hope their response will be. So, being the normal person that you are, you want to put your cards on the table calmly and let everyone know what the situation is. I think that can help (you) and I think the wording you've suggested is pretty much spot on. I'd be inclined to think that she won't respect what you want though, so plan B will be turning them away if/when they turn up again.
You can go for the down key approach (oh! We're just on our way out. You should have called, what a wasted journey for you, bye!) as you bundle everyone into the car and vanish. It's slightly easier than outright confrontation but has the disadvantage that you still disrupt all your plans and they might be there when you get back, or decide to stay nearby and turn up again in the morning.
You can, as Bonesie suggests, be really rude :) I've really let rip at my mum before and I know others have. It gave me a release that I still can't quite put into words but............you have your kiddies and if they're there you might not want to do that in front of them.
So your third option would be next time to say "Hi. I've already said it's not okay to turn up unannounced. It isn't convenient. You need to go home." or however it feels best for you to word it. And then go in and shut the door and just carry on like they aren't there.
It is incredibly hard, Kay, any you'll probably feel guilty and like the worst person in the world for doing it but, to be honest, if they're daft enough to do a three hour drive on the off chance that you're going to be home and available then that's down to them. I don't think there is a nice, easy way to distance yourself from difficult family, there are mind games, emotional manipulation issues and that horrible tug between wanting a family and not wanting the one you have!
And I do understand the way you feel about your hubby saying he's fed up with it all, I've been on both sides of the fence and it's so tough for everyone involved. Is he in your camp on this one? Does he want to stop them coming over like this as well? Perhaps the two of you, on the lawn together saying the same thing next time she comes over might help? Some people find a time limit to talking about it helps - ten minutes a day and then you get on with something else? Boundaries again - don't let her keep taking up your time, your head space, your relationship with your hubby, your lovely babies. It's hard, you have to kind of re-train your brain and that's a lot of work but it does get easier.
I hope that's not all come out as gibberish. It's early and I haven't had any coffee yet :)
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay-Zee))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
It's hard as hell dealing with an NMomster, or any N for that matter, who simply REFUSE to RESPECT boundaries! :P
I think I've shared a similar experience on another thread about an N who INSISTED on showing up on my doorstep, UNINVITED and UNANNOUNCED because, in her own little mind, she was DELUSIONAL about OWNING me! (This was someone I had known for over 40 years until I terminated all contact with her.)
If the children are not around when the NQueenC!@#$ turns up unannounced and uninvited again, if I were in your shoes I would probably react with the following:
"What part of the word 'NO' do you NOT understand?!?!?! F**K OFF!!!!"
I also got bad-mouthed no matter how hard I tried. It was damned if I did, damned if I didn't, and, as in Tupp's words, I got slagged off no matter what. If they choose to believe that you are nothing but a pile of dog !@#$, in their own small-minded opinions, then those kinds of dimwits don't need to be in your life. Reminds me of a saying I've seen from time to time......
Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter.
Bones
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Kay:
I remember being very sensitive and highly aware when I was pregnant...... and it didn't help I was being gaslighted and lied to..... made to doubt my reality, and made to feel guilty for speaking up about how I felt.
It's a terrible hard place to live, IME.
I also remember feeling like drinking myself into a black out stupor to escape the truth of my situation when it became apparent, and I couldn't deny it any longer. (I didn't, but I recall the moment I told my h his behavior made me WANT to do that.)
There are no good answers.
There are no win/win situations.
Every choice you'll make will have consequences that effect everyone around you (likely) negatively.
That's the reality, and I think you really care about the people around youm, and about how they perceive you, so it's harder still.
It's difficult to put together a logical game plan when you've been driven to distraction, doubted and made to feel bad for naming your reality.
THE NERVE!
I have to say, your idea of writing a calm, loving letter to your parents laying out boundaries along with gratitude for the gifts sounded like a very good plan to me.
If you can manage to parcel that into a long term plan of enforcing those boundaries calmly, with grace, and positive (outward) emotions, I believe you'll find a better response from your husband and other family members. They really don't see what you're going through. They don't understand.
It's my hope that your calm will bring out your mother's true character for all to see, and gain even more support for the boundaries you set. Your mother gains support when her behavior makes you look like the unstable, bitter one.
It's not wrong to have and set boundaries..... it's logical and healthy. Don't let yourself get baited into defending them, or your right to have them. Remain calm, sure sure sure about your rights, and it always helps me to write down all the hard feelings, and read them. Write some more then read and write again and again until I've internalized it all down to it's essence, and can discuss anything calmly without being triggered, thrown off my stride, respond with anger or shut down in hurt and confusion.
It will help you stay focused on your goals, and pay less attention to the pokes and prods your mother delivers. Focus on what you'll do, not on what she's done perhaps?
Good luck, I'm sorry you're going through this, esp with all those pregnancy hormones coursing through you.
Lighter
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This might help you sort things out, Kay -- write 2 letters.
In the first one, you're going to say, Mom - I'm not a child you can call to your side any side you want - I have a life, children, and responsibilities. Your behavior is rude and I wouldn't tolerate it in some other person. You're going to write out the kind of relationship you WISH you had with her -- where caring for each other is a 2-way proposition and no one keeps score. You're going to get all that out of your head, first... and this might take awhile. That gives your life and body and hormones a chance to get back to balance -- but also lets you get your feelings and boundaries absolutely positively unequivocably clear in your own mind. You will know for yourself exactly what she is doing/has done that is "wrong" from where you sit. And that will lead naturally, to...
the second letter, where you TELL her (not ask, plead, or request) exactly what you want her to do, what the "rules" are now, and why. This one, you can decide to mail or not -- the first one is simply for you. A letter from you, TO YOU. This is you sticking up for you, helping you enforce boundaries (which ya gotta know what they are, first -- you already know that -- but also WHY you need this boundary -- and that WHY is way higher on the priority level than anything NM could throw out there as "important", you know?)
You will have to explain to her, in words one of your children would understand -- that if she doesn't follow the rules, THIS is going to happen -- and make sure you're ready (and DH to back you up) to enforce it.
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A second item I saw in what you wrote: give DH a get out of jail free card -- give him a pass for not coming to your rescue, choosing to tolerate the visit to avoid a scene... poor guy probably feels caught in the middle of an emotional gun battle and his natural reaction is to duck. It will help him know how and when to ride to the rescue, when he knows what your absolute boundaries are too. My poor hubs has the patience of a saint -- after all these years, I still have the same self-harm reflex when I feel my boundaries have been trampled, and I b-itch about every little thing my NM does that makes me crazy... but it doesn't stick with me much anymore; I'm more able to accept: crazy is as crazy does and let it go.
Your DH doesn't know what to do to help; and is afraid of doing the wrong thing -- remember, he's gaslighted too. And Ns are incredible spin-masters... able to create appearances - illusion - of what is just normal human interaction while they drive the knife into your back and twist it for their own sick pleasure. Poor DH is confused about what's going on -- accepting the illusion of normalcy and not understanding what's there to hurt you. People who haven't experienced this particular PD -- can't be expected to know all the ways this works... and it takes some years of explaining (and learning ourselves) just what a trigger is -- and where (the boundaries) those triggers are.
((((((((((((((((((((((Kay)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
He's gonna have your back, don't worry about that. And there is no better feeling in the world. But for the moment, you need to take care of you -- pamper yourself a little, breathe slower and calmer, enjoy some fresh air -- and then set aside some time to write letter #1, for YOU. That will get you to letter #2 the fastest.
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(((((KZ))))
I really understand how you feel helpless, powerless, drained...when she Got Her Entitlement Way regardless of your needs. I think that's what N-mothering does. I have a dear friend in her 60s, gorgeous, accomplished, intelligent, who INSTANTLY lost all her ability to take good care of herself when her Nmother (now in her 80s) moved to this town from out of state. It's been sad to watch.
I think what you're describing is lack of assertiveness (or effective assertiveness). I can't imagine more helpful training for you than assertiveness training. I think that kind of workshop is tailor-made for children of invasive N-mothers. It's like the calm unruffled refusals, with grace, that Lighter describes. And along the way, plenty of the messy Nobody-is-Going-to-Validate-Me-Here feelings Tupp did.
It frustrates me that assertiveness training isn't still widely available as it was in the 60s and 70s, but there are smart practitioners out there who know how to teach it, and I think it's a sanity saver for people with mothers like yours.
I am really sorry she doesn't see your needs. She may legitimately yearn to see her grandchildren, but ... she doesn't have an automatic RIGHT to.
I wonder about this (and don't know if it's a good idea).
Dear Mom,
I need to explain something difficult. I hope that you will be able to understand and respect it, but if you can't, I feel a responsibility to communicate this clearly anyway.
For reasons I choose not to go into, it is important to my health and my family's well-being that you never again come to visit uninvited or after I have told you it is not a good time for you to come. You may be yearning to come, you may want to see the kids -- I am sure that is true.
But even if you must endure disappointment or frustration when I say No -- you must learn how to accept that it is my right to say when I want you to visit. And that No, means No.
I am going to do all I can to ensure that I communicate with you clearly about my boundaries. If I don't do it perfectly, I will work at it harder. But I want to clarify that I will no longer tolerate you overriding or ignoring my desires. My family and my home is a sanctuary, and whether you think I "should" feel stressed or not over the prospect of a visit -- I will defend my right to maintain the conditions I need to have for a healthful and positive life.
I expect my boundaries to be respected, even if it causes disappointment. Let me repeat this, clearly: DO NOT EVER AGAIN COME TO MY HOME FOR A VISIT WHEN I HAVE TOLD YOU NOT TO.
If you are able to respect this, then our relationship can continue. But it will have to include times when you do not get what you want when you want it, and it will have to EXCLUDE your ever again overriding my wishes and coming to visit because you refuse to wait.
Again, I am not going to go into the reasons with you. I hope you will be able to hear this, and act on it. Any future compulsion to "override" or "go anyway" will be seriously destructive to our relationship.
I don't know if it's a good idea. I guess, what I'm thinking is that IF you are going to learn assertiveness skills and dedicate yourself to practicing them with your mother literally without exception for the rest of her life....THEN, it would make sense to write something like this. It is a warning shot across her bow. But it would not be something to be tentative about.
I am so sorry you're going through these feelings...especially now. She has no clue about how much stress you're under, or how she is a walking Last Straw. But she is.
Much comfort,
Hops
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Thank you Bones!
I admire your bluntness. And I wish I could do it! I've spent the past two days mentally telling off NM in my head. But whenever I've gone there in real life with NM, I tend to get emotional and angry. And of course, NM just uses that as ammunition, makes me look like I'm the irrational, "crazy," difficult family member.
Agh! At any rate, thanks for listening and the encouraging words!
Kay x
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Thank you so much TwoaP!
Those are all really sound, amazing strategies. Exactly the kind of help I've been praying for.
I think I will draft a letter, keep it short, unemotional and to the point. And I'm not going to make any accusations or give any rationale or justification because I'm not going to prove anything to NM or make her hear me anyway. I'll just feel better once I resurrect the boundary and have some documentation in case NM gets even more stalkerish and mental.
DH is on my side. He's seen the depths of NM's nastiness; she was really vile with him for the first two years of dating and the first two years of marriage. (Not to mention the hideous way she treated him on our wedding day!) He doesn't want to see her either (under normal, planned circumstances and holidays) and he was just as floored as I was when they showed up to "surprise" us when I'd explicitly told them to give us some time and space. DH's way of dealing with things is just to downplay them, laugh them off, try to forget about them as quickly as possible. So I think he just instantly snapped into that mode after they left, whereas I spent the hours following reeling.
DH's comment hurt a bit because we don't talk about my mother every day. And even when I do bring her up, we don't often sit down and yak about my issues. But yes, lately, I've mentioned her every week. Because every week leading up to her surprise visit, she found someway to try to bulldoze into our lives. It's been weeks of her threatening to come up and me shutting her down (to DH's shared relief). So yes, I suppose she's been in our lives a bit more lately but only because she's been more ballsy and bullying then she's been in years.
I do need to retrain my brain though to keep her out... That's the other problem with these visits. (And probably the one that DH really feels and notices.) I feel totally distracted, emotional and jumpy for at least three times the length of the time I spend with her. So if I see her for two days, I feel deeply anxious and depressed for two days before and two days after. Even the three hours I spent with her after her surprise, translated into at least two days of difficulty concentrating, plus bad dreams. Last night I woke up screaming, dreamed with horror my 15 month old ate a taranchula and NM was on the sidelines cackling with joy like a witch, shrieking, "Don't you just love it when they eat the big ones?!"
Oh god, I wish there was a quick easy fix. But I truly can't thank you enough for the support and advice...
so much love and gratitude, Kay x
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Thank you so much Lighter!
They really don't see what you're going through. They don't understand.
So true. And I'm so, intensely grateful you all understand...
It's been a few days and I think I felt self-harmy because (in addition to losing the boundary between my house and NM's) I also lost the boundary between her and me? Like, it was all a game to her...showing up here, prodding me, trying to set me off in order to make me look irrational, difficult, crazy....and even though I didn't outwardly deliver, some part of me still wondered, after she left, am I the crazy one? Is it really bad of me to be outraged by this? I felt framed and body-snatched, like she'd managed to fill me with all her self-hatred and aggression. And some old part of my brain (I haven't cut myself in seven years or gotten drunk in nine) just wanted to obliterate her by obliterating myself.
It's not wrong to have and set boundaries..... it's logical and healthy. Don't let yourself get baited into defending them, or your right to have them. Remain calm, sure sure sure about your rights, and it always helps me to write down all the hard feelings, and read them. Write some more then read and write again and again until I've internalized it all down to it's essence, and can discuss anything calmly without being triggered, thrown off my stride, respond with anger or shut down in hurt and confusion.
I am definitely going to try this. I've never thought of it and no one's ever suggested it to me before. I find it so hard not to be triggered sometimes. I've gotten better over the years, but NM just pushes and pushes and pushes until she gets the reaction she's looking for. I try to remove myself from the situation before it gets to that point. But, it would be incredibly helpful to be able to talk about some of this stuff--even to DH--really calmly and coherently without dissolving into snot and tears.
Thank you so much for your help and support.
it means the world to me... Kay x
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Oh, P.R. Thank you! I don't know how you always manage to be filled with such compassion and so much good, strong strategy...
Two letters is brilliant!
And you are right about D.H. It's a horrible situation to be in, especially for normal guy from a supportive, good-enough family. He has no experience with these depths of dysfunction. And it's not his job to rescue me anyway. I think my mistake was: I was looking for him for affirmation ("this is messed up, right?") when I really should have taken a time-out, alone and worked on a spur-of-the-moment version of letter #1. I knew it was messed-up. I felt it. And yet, somehow that didn't seem like enough. I felt unsure of myself. And probably a little co-dependent.
Such good advice too about writing letter #2 in language my three-year-old would understand. Actually, my three year old has more emotional intelligence than NM! I might have to write it in language my 15-month-year-old would understand: basically, just No. No. No.
so much love and thank you!!! Kay x
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Thank you Bones!
I admire your bluntness. And I wish I could do it! I've spent the past two days mentally telling off NM in my head. But whenever I've gone there in real life with NM, I tend to get emotional and angry. And of course, NM just uses that as ammunition, makes me look like I'm the irrational, "crazy," difficult family member.
Agh! At any rate, thanks for listening and the encouraging words!
Kay x
((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Thank you Hops!!
Seriously, that letter is like Cliff's Notes! And I am totally going to use it as a jumping off point in what P.R. would call my letter #2. If you ever lead an assertiveness course, you should it plus a few others (a letter for the co-worker, for the friend, for the significant other) into a workbook and publish it! I haven't done it in years, but I find it really helpful to start with a script and practice it. That's what therapy (when I could afford it) mostly was for me--a constant dress-rehearsal for confrontations/self-assertions.
I think an assertiveness training class would do me well. I meant to go and hunt for one the last time you mentioned them. I feel I should be able to find one around here. I'm near Woodstock, NY... So there's lots of emotional wellness and personal growth stuff 'round here! We probably live more in the '60s and '70s than an average community!
At any rate, thank you deeply for the lifeline.
You all have shined so much light on a really dark place.
Kay x
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Thank you again for all the help...
I just sent my email no. 2, having spent a lot of time on it and making sure it was firm and clear, but un-accusatory(?) and not emotionally wrought. I have serious feeling it will provoke N-rage regardless, but am doing my best to "assert and relax" without stressing out about the fallout. I feel much better, having stood up for myself and the best needs of DH and the kids. Thank you all so much for listening and lending advice. I hope I'm not back with any stalking/restraining order updates (only half joking)...
lots of love, Kay x
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Whatever happens, Kay, you are doing the right thing and proceeding along the right lines. When things got so bad that I had to think about a restraining order my sol told me to write to her first and spell it out - no contact, direct, indirect, no bad mouthing me to people who know me, no sending shitty cards to my four year old son or getting my sister (and even my sister's kids, on one occasion) to write to me. That way if things do get really bad you have proof that you have calmly, politely asked her to respect your privacy and she has chosen to ignore you.
It's horrible. I think about my family a lot this time of year; my birthday is late summer - no family and then of course Christmas is fast on its heels and that's a time I really feel the lack of family, as many others do. Some friends of mine are getting married and are having huge stresses over who they can't invite; they've so many family and friends they're having to trim lists to fit people in. I've no-one. But I'd still rather have my health, my sanity and know my son isn't growing up with this craziness around him than put up with her bizarre behaviour so that I can avoid feeling like no-one loves me. It's tough, tough, tough but the situation can't go on as it is. You are doing the right thing.
Sending a big hug to you, a don't be crazy vibe to your mum and light and love to everyone else. Night night.
Tup xx
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Thank you so much, Tup,
And belated happy B-day... I can totally relate to the sharp loneliness of having no family. I've felt that way for years now, despite occasional contact with NM and even less than that with GC sister. But I'd still rather have my health, my sanity and know my son isn't growing up with this craziness around him than put up with her bizarre behaviour so that I can avoid feeling like no-one loves me.
I can't thank you enough for this insight. I never realized it before, but I think that's the reason I've avoided this confrontation for so long. Because I wanted to put off feeling that loneliness; I convinced myself that some family contact (no matter how one-sided and abusive) was better than no family ties. But it's not better. Anything is better than this. I'm reaching my breaking point where something's got to change. Maybe love of my kids and life I've built with DH outweighs lifelong fear of NM.
Anyway, you've for sure got family on this board. And give me a holler anytime you're feeling lonely...
Kay x
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Refuse to get my brain battered by this... NM finally responded via email after a week's sulking. And I don't even know where to begin about her message. Well, for a start, a normal person would have apologized for the intrusion...but NM is far from normal, so whatever. The whole thing is peppered with phony exclamation points and everything she's put in quotation marks are not thing's I've said! (Will include my original letter in a subsequent post.) All the name calling and weirdness ("monster," "supervised visits," "put up with") are total projections, aggressive words she's trying to put in my mouth. No doubt, she's already called up the rest of the family and told them that's what I've said to her:
Dear Kay,
We are back from the weekend wedding and I am ready to respond. Dad and I will be responding separately.
It causes me great sadness to think that communicating or being with me can cause you such distress. I cannot bear the thought that I may, in anyway, be affecting your health or well being! I think that we can both agree that our relationship since X or maybe even sometime before, has been superficial at best. We haven't had a real conversation in years. Whether we are visiting your home or you all come here, a cloud always seems to hover. Many issues that were brought up in X, I have tried to thoughtfully consider but I always feel that I come up short. Any interaction seems to be controlled - communicating via text messaging only. Every time I telephone, it goes directly to voice mail. It all just seems more than 'boundaries' - it feels like a concerted effort to keep me at arms length. However, that being said, I will not allow you to use this as a means to 'discontinue our relationship'! I will adhere to your demands - because they come across more as demands than wishes! I do not feel comfortable contacting you in anyway so I will wait to hear from you in the future.
Concerning the children - I thoroughly enjoy being around them! They are fantastic and I shouldn't be made to feel guilty because I want to see them! That brings up another issue that has been bothering me. Every time I see them I feel like it's some kind of 'supervised visitation'. Are you afraid to leave them alone with me? Am I really a monster when it comes to children?
I need to address one more issue. I will never again overstep when it comes to the boundaries you have put in place. However, I insist that I be treated with the same level of respect that you afford your neighbors, Barbara, your aunt, or the in-laws. Your demeanor towards me is disrespectful. Someone you have to 'put up with'? I wish for us a real relationship in the future, not one that is forced.
Ugh... she's so sickening. Like she wants a "real" relationship. She wants a phony "relationship" whereby I never say no to her and let her be as outrageous and abusive as she wants. Also, I am seriously creep-ed out by her being so pushy about wanting to be alone with the children. This does not seem normal to me. And it makes me wonder what the hell she feels she can't do with them while DH and I are in the same building.
Anyway, I responded with the below. My only regret is that I put the ball in her court with the last paragraph. In retrospect, I wish I'd just seized the moment when she said that thing about "not feeling comfortable contacting me" (as if I am the dangerous one); I wish I'd basically told her "don't contact me for a while." I guess part of me wondered, what the hell does she want from me, anyway? I know, don't get me wrong. I know like the good girl she's conditioned me to be, that she wants a relationship where I idolize the bejesus out of her, praise her to high heaven, let her badmouth people to me, stand docile-like while she criticizes me to my face and says weird stuff to my children, let her get her way, let her get away with murder, and let her suck all the air out of every freaking room. I know that, and I know I'm no longer willing to do that. But the good girl in me thought, Fine. Tell me what you want (everything) so I can tell you what I'm prepared to give (next to nothing.) :x
Hi there,
Thanks for responding. You raise a lot of issues here... I want to try to address them.
- You feel hurt if your calls go to voicemail. Anyone who calls me goes to voicemail. Usually because I am working (I have my phone off) or because I am busy looking after two children who don't take kindly to me talking on the phone. I'm sorry that you feel hurt by this. It's not personal.
- You feel I am "making you feel guilty" for wanting to see the kids. You are responsible for your feelings. I've never, ever said I don't want you to see them. I have said--and continue to say--that it is our choice (DH and me) when and how you see them. Period. When you give us little warning or when you "say" you are coming to visit rather than ask for a time that's convenient for everyone, you create a self-fulfilling prophesy...we say "no."
- We only let you have "supervised" visits. That is our prerogative as their parents. And we do not make it a habit to leave our kids alone with anyone, that includes you. I'm sorry if you feel hurt by this.
- That somehow I do not afford you the same "respect" that I give my other friends and family. They show me and DH respect. When they want to see us, they get and touch and arrange a good time. They recognize that we are a family of almost five, with little free time and lots of commitments. Stating my preferences and personal boundaries is not a disrespectful thing to do.
- My "demeanor" is disrespectful. I don't quite know what you mean here, as I have not criticized you in any way shape or form. All the below words "supervised visitation," "monster" and "put up with" have come, not from my mouth, but yours. Please don't put words in my mouth.
- "Real" versus "forced" relationship. I think we have two different ideas about the kind of relationship we're aiming for. I'm not sure how to make them meet in the middle. Maybe if you tell me the kind of relationship you have in mind, I can tell you the kind that I do and we can work from there.
love, Kay
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I think that was an impeccable response.
And nothing wrong with the last paragraph, either.
You were reasonable, assertive and courteous. I think it was a very mature response to her response.
hugs
Hops
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Don't nit-pick yourself via the letters, Kay. I think you did great, too.
And ya know what? I also think, in some ways, it's just and righteous to leave the ball in NM's court. You did it calmly, with no aggression or meanness - but got across the message (to those with ears) just how much the responsibility for change is on her shoulders. Accept it or not, put on your big girl panties, Mom. You DID IT, extremely well Kay. YAY!!!!!!
I know you're still looking for the other shoe to drop - so the only thing I saw brewing that might fit into that category is that she is going to use the kids and that all important "grandma card" -- as emotional blackmail. Lots of kids grow up without grandparents -- and turn out just fine because they had good parents. Don't put your kids into a tug of war situation. It's yucky.
The other blackmail tool I've seen used, is the false idea that we automatically "owe" a debt to our mothers for giving birth to us. Right. I'm sure you felt that way about your kids, huh? This one only holds true when we've really BEEN mothered. NMs don't see that part.
IF she changes and recognizes where she was in the wrong; if she learns to accept your limitations and boundaries... then you can reassess the situation with the kids. When kids are older -- when they have their own sense of self, values, good people vs the less-well intentioned -- they can fend for themselves with an N, who doesn't have other more unsavory intentions. Healthy kids aren't as vulnerable as others, for short timeframes of exposure with Ns.
Oh - and I'm stealing your letter!!!!!! (just kidding - hee hee!)
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((KayZee)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
GOOD JOB!!!! You Go Girl!!!
Bones
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Thank you so much Bones, P.R. and Hops,
I woke up this morning seething, feeling like my head was spinning and NM had worked her crazy-making magic on me again. Like somehow she'd taken this one firm request (do not show up at my house uninvited) and morphed it into this treacherous list of "demands," fired back at me with numerous accusations that justified her behavior. But I'm just gonna work through those feelings on my own, journal about it maybe. Thanks for helping me keep a clear head and maintain some perspective. It's so easy to get baited and sucked into her nightmare, and let her persuade me that I'm the one who is out of line.
I know you're still looking for the other shoe to drop - so the only thing I saw brewing that might fit into that category is that she is going to use the kids and that all important "grandma card" -- as emotional blackmail. Lots of kids grow up without grandparents -- and turn out just fine because they had good parents. Don't put your kids into a tug of war situation. It's yucky.
Thank you so much P.R., for the reminder that it's ok to temporarily come between my kids and NM. I feel a lot of guilt around that. And NM's emotional blackmail doesn't help. I'm with you...I fully expect her to bang on about her "grandparent's rights" until the bitter end. I can even see her trying to take me to court. She's initiated the same battle with my ex-brother-in-law too; and each time it's just as weird because no one has ever officially "cut her off" or forbid her from seeing the kids..she just doesn't seem to get that they are real people and our kids not hers. But the fact remains, she has no fundamental right to see them here in the state of New York. And she certainly is not entitled to the "unsupervised" visits she suspiciously insists upon (especially when the last time I left NM with my then two-year-old daughter, NM LOST her and left her in serious danger).
Don't quite know where I'd be without you all to talk to. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Kay x
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It continues...
Kay,
I have read many 'words' in your reply but everything you have said stems from (1) unannounced visit. Or am I missing something here? Have I crossed the line before and been unaware?
I observe your demeanor towards me as always being angry. It's body language - even when I'm invited - you are aloof. Maybe you are not aware, but it is quite obvious to me and others. If we need to discuss what kind of relationship we are aiming towards - that's a red flag right there! I would like a loving relationship where we laugh, talk, and enjoy each other's company. But, at this time, it is very clear to me that any relationship going forward will be mandated by you. As I stated in my previous email, that's fine with me. I will not allow you to use my noncompliance as a means of discontinuing our relationship!
NM
My reply...I just don't have the time and energy for this. These head trips take days to recover from. It's bad enough that she dumps all her feelings onto me, but then she tries to persuade me that all these nameless other people think I'm horrible too.
Exactly. I have been trying to address your unannounced visit. Period. Nothing more. You can say I've made "demands," but I've only asked one thing: that you please do not show up here unannounced.
Someone else might say "sorry" or "okay, I understand," but you're firing back with blanket accusations that you feel justify the behavior (the unannounced visit) that I've rightly told you makes me uncomfortable.
Please do not project your anger, emotions or inner conflicts onto me. I do not feel anger toward you. I do not expect you to be anything other than what you are. Please do not drag other people into our conversations nor try to tell me what an unnamed army of "others" think and feel about me; please do not triangulate, inserting yourself into a relationship that I have with other people or inserting them into whatever you are trying to say to me. I have not: raised my voice at you, called you names, blamed you for anything or done anything else that could be construed as angry or aggressive.
I don't think there's anything abnormal, unhealthy or "red flag" about asking what you feel you're not getting from me, especially when you've expressed unhappiness about our relationship. To me, this is called emotional intimacy and the first step to compromise.
To be honest, I'm under a deadline and need a bit of a hiatus from this conversation. I will be in touch if there is anything--an emergency for instance--that you need to know about, and I encourage you to do the same. But, barring that, I need a break. I'll be in touch closer to the holidays.
Kay x
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...and because I think email is a prime weapoN, I'd like to make a wild suggestion.
You could (if it felt right to you) send a brief PS --
Mom, as I plan to take a break from this conversation for now, I won't be reading emails. I will be in touch closer to the holidays.
She does have a controlling, threatening tone. "I will not allow you to use my noncompliance..." -- my ass.
Hops
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That's a very good idea! Thank you so much, Hops.
God, I didn't even pick up on that "will not allow you" bit (though her overall aggressive, "I-own-you" vibe always reaches me loud and clear). I really hope this works and I can fend her off, take a break!
lots of love & gratitude, Kay x
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I read it and let it sit overnight, Kay.
But my first reaction remains -- the longer you DO engage with her, the more opportunity for her to BE aggressive and threatening. You've defined your limits, your boundaries - even offered her a bone, that IF she's serious about repairing the relationship it's a start, but it can't happen right now...
you've got to stop replying, do not respond, and if necessary for you to shift your focus back to your family and YOU... don't even look at her messages.
Don't put a timeline on it. See how you feel after a week. Two weeks. Two months. Moms really shouldn't be looking over our shoulders and running around nagging us about anything -- when we're independent adults. Time for HER to let go, you know?
You control the degree to which she must let go. How she feels about it -- is her responsibility and concern -- and it's healthy N to put your family, and even your feelings before hers. She doesn't doesn't get a say, this time.
Yes, it's work. But truly - it's not hard. Stay engaged with you, your family, your life. That's all positive and will drain some of the yuckies away.
((((((Kay))))))
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(((KZ)))
I'm sure you already thought it through but if you liked the suggestion,
Step 2 to make it work is to Block Her Email after sending it.
(You can always Unblock it near the holidays or whenever YOU are ready.)
xo
Hops
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Thank you P.R.,
Can't tell you how much I needed to read this right now. The yucks are so yuckie...
Of course, because I put the foot down with NM and cut off the conversation, Dad stepped up and sent me a disgusting message on her behalf. Of course, it's just an echo of NM's message, all the same words used, except then he goes on to numerate "all the times" (like two) when he's been nice to me or supported me. Which made me feel like, oh right, so everything nice you do for me has strings too...and you'll use them later as justification for violating me. I'm even more upset when enabling Co-N D gets involved; somehow it hurts worse than NM.
Anyway, thank you for the advice, for giving me permission to just not read them. I find myself so upset after each one that I really can't concentrate on my kids or my deadlines...I still feel like they're winning.
So no more reading. No more engaging. This has to stop.
Thank you for your help...feel like I'm losing my mind.
Kay x
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Thanks Hops,
I just blocked their email (after I sent the below message to my father's reply). I think I'm going to go onto my cellphone and temporarily block their numbers too...
Hi Kay
I apologize for the delayed response, but X's wedding and the subsequent catch up effort with work took their toll. The delay also gave me time to ruminate about your email, and I have to say that I was absolutely stunned by its tone. First of all, there is nothing abnormal about parents dropping in for a surprise visit to see their daughter and grandkids. I was pretty much denied that pleasure when you and Nikki were young, due to the early death of both my parents. Additionally both Mom and I thought that, by restricting our visit to less than two hours, we were being considerate of both your and DH's time.
What I find distressing is that nobody displayed any annoyance at the time of our visit. Since it is now obvious that you were rattled by our presence, I wish that you had just raised the issue when we were there so that we could have discussed it and dealt with it.
I know that our relationship has been strained as of late, and I can’t fathom what transgression it is that we might have committed to justify this arm’s length relationship. I can only assure you that it wasn’t intentional. We’ve always been there to support you with both physical and emotional issues. Kay, we were there to care for your daughter during the birth of of your son. We were there to help with all of your moves, including the one into your current home. And, I certainly did my best to support you during your tumultuous time during X.
I can appreciate the fact that you are dealing with pressures of deadlines. But believe me when I tell you that everyone we love is suffering from enormous physical, emotional, and economic stress. We just need to acknowledge it, support each other, and try our best to repair any damage along the way. That’s the way families are supposed to function. I’m just saddened and disheartened by being reduced to using email in that attempt.
Dad
My response...I'm really done:
Hi Dad,
Thanks for writing...
I sent you an email because--after weeks of telling Mom by phone and text that this is not a good time for us and we will arrange a time to meet up once we've met our deadlines and commitments--I felt the need to put it in writing: we do not want unannounced visits. A surprise, when someone has been repeatedly told "not right now," is more like an ambush. It's more like bulldozing. There's nothing "arm's length" about asking you to please not show up at our house without clearing it with me first.
I didn't want to "talk it out" while you were here. All that would have accomplished was having this exact same conversation, experiencing the same lack of empathy and broad-stroke personal attacks....only not by email, in front of my children. And I'm unwilling to expose my kids or husband to my mother's rage. I'd like to think we could have discussed and dealt with it--like you said--but I think you know as well as I do that those kinds of discussions don't happen in our family. If I come to you hoping to address a very specific problem, Mom attacks me in a general way and you support her like a henchman. Which is fine. You're her partner and you have to live there.
It makes me really sad that you lost your parents so young. And I totally feel for you, wishing they could come visit and be involved in your life as a young dad.
I thank you very much for helping with DD while DS was born, and for helping with my moves and my tough time in X. I've appreciated them very much. But the fact that you bring them up now, makes them feel like you're trying to emotionally blackmail me--to say that because you've done that, you have some entitlement to drop in whenever you like, regardless of our time, commitments or level of comfort. I'm sorry if I put you out in any of those situations.
lots of love and take care,
Koren x
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They thrive on your distress.
Hard to believe - amazingly sad to thing to believe humans, especially parents - could be that way. They can.
Distress goes down, when you're not having to watch each & every violation (repeatedly) of boundaries... or wrack your brain for ways to try to express yourself in a way that they'll finally understand... finally accept that they've hurt you... finally apologize and treat you as an adult human being.
When distress goes down - sometimes, there's a sense of "loss". You'd think it would be relief instead - and there is some of that. But just like some folks get accustomed to the caffiene-fueled level of adrenalin - of always being on the go and bursting with energy... some become habituated to this kind of distress:
so much so, that it begins to substitute for what a real relationship is. We're very loathe to give that up... it's like a "last straw" of hope or something. But it's precisely this, that is required in "the game" -- for it to continue.
Without someone to distress - or at least, without you to distress - they'll go on to another "target", eventually. Accept that you will be bad-mouthed for a few weeks, until the next "outrage" in their life comes along. (Actually, I found that accepting this gave me the emotional "space" for some basic confidence in my own judgement, perception to grow... a positive "side-effect", if you will.)
You are guaranteed entitled to take a "time out" in the game -- for as long as you need or want.
Those time-outs can provide you with your answers and revelations about "what's next".
You must be at least 7 or 8 months along now, right? You're starting to tire more easily? PLEASE - do yourself and this child a favor - and take a time out for a couple of months! Your distress - and adrenalin levels - are perceptible, I believe by the bambino. You are, after all, his or her environment right?
Time-out for both of you, then.
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Gosh, yes...I'm exactly two months from my due date. Much too pregnant to be stressing the poor baby bump out. Couldn't sleep a wink last night. Following Dad's email, I was all grief, stress and raging heartburn.
Thank you so much, P.R. for talking it through with me. And for giving me the permission (or helping me give myself the permission) to walk away. I had the same realization at 2 a.m. last night: the bullying, the gossiping, the gaslighting, the boundary-stomping won't stop, not ever unless I break the cycle. And the only way I can do that is by ending contact. They will find themselves another scapegoat once I go away because they are incapable of living without one. All their childhood baggage and bad feelings have to go somewhere. But it won't be flung at me, not anymore.
I've totally played my part in this family game. Because I had some kind of Stockholm Syndrome, confused pain with love, felt like having a dysfunctional abusive family was better than having no family at all. But it's not better. It's much much worse. And all this crap is causing additional stress to my marriage, making it difficult for me to concentrate when I'm with my kids, and absolutely zapping me of any creative energy or ability to work.
So here I am...Line drawn. Emails and phone numbers blocked. Still a little bit worried they will escalate it further, but I think (hope) in a few days time, I'll be back to feeling calm, safe, and ready to focus (for the first time in a long time) on my recovery, my work, my real family (DH and the kids) and me.
((((P.R.))))
huge hugs of gratitude,
Kay x
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(((((((((((((((((((KayZee)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Oh Kay :( I think you've dealt with this brilliantly, much better than I could have done. I've always found myself rounded into a corner with letters and emails like those; my mum always seemed to get the upper hand (and did all the stuff like listing how much they'd helped me and just wanting us to get along).
I think the thing I found most difficult to deal with was that they couldn't see things from my point of view. I spent a lot of time wondering whether my 'demands' (I got that too, funny how the language is similar) were reasonable - like you, I was 'demanding' that they respect limits and boundaries. Eventually I accepted that they see the world differently and that our two worlds can't exist side by side. It is so, so sad when someone gets to a stage where they have to stop seeing their own family, but, like you, conact with them used to make me ill (all my mental health problems went away when I went NC). So as horrible as it is, I think you are doing the right thing.
Hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((((Kay)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Kay and Penny...
Something just popped into my head, from Penny's last post.
I wonder if the similarities in "modus operandi", "plot", and right down to the dialogue... are because the nparents are playing out the role of a character in a drama or stageplay?? As if they've hypnotized themselves to actually believe they ARE the character - us Nresisters are always the protagonists to their victimized, aggrieved, parent - and therefore they are able to "crazy-make" on that basis... never, ever, seeing beyond the "play" of the drama... to the real people and feelings in the roles??
Does that make any sense?? It was a snippet of an idea... that kinda fit into other snippets that I've noticed, from time to time. And kind of works with my idea that we can - we have the free choice, without invoking some karma or breaking some taboo - simply stop playing in THEIR drama.
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Yeah, I think there's something in that, Phoenix, my mum literally exists in a parallel universe - she just doesn't deal with reality so it's her way or no way. Perhaps they have that in common, that they're 'acting out' being alive instead of actually living (and feeling/relating/thinking etc). It's very difficult to deal with. And, like you say, the only way I was able to cope was to opt out and just do my own thing.
It's funny but I saw something similar like that last night; two friends of mine came round and for ninety minutes talked about themselves and things that had happened on their last night out. I felt like i was watching a play instead of being at home with a couple of friends. There was very little conversation or interaction, it was like watching two monologues interspersed with the odd dualogue; it was almost as if I wasn't there. Just like being at home, lol :)
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((((Tup))))
Eventually I accepted that they see the world differently and that our two worlds can't exist side by side. It is so, so sad when someone gets to a stage where they have to stop seeing their own family, but, like you, conact with them used to make me ill (all my mental health problems went away when I went NC). So as horrible as it is, I think you are doing the right thing.
I can totally relate to this. There is just no way to meet in the middle. I've been trying for years, and it just causes too much pain and confusion on both sides.
I found these "Ten Commandments of Dysfunctional Families" the other day: http://www.ministryhealth.net/mh_articles/064_ten_commandments_of_dysfunctional_families.html. They really hit home. The only way we could have a (in my folks' mind) peaceful "relationship" is if I adhered to all these rules. And I am truly incapable of doing that at this time in my life. Living that way makes me feel sick; it makes me self-sabotage and it ruins relationships with people outside my crazy FOO.
Spent the past couple of days outside, going on long fall walks with DH and the kids. Also had a good, honest, supportive talk with my aunt and uncle--for years, they've been the only strong family connection I have. Feeling much happier and more positive than I did a few days ago, although I do feel the guilt slowly starting to creep in.
Thank you so much for making me feel less alone.
It's sad, but comforting to know so many of us have experienced this...
Kay x
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P.R. and Tup, you hit the nail on the head.
they're 'acting out' being alive instead of actually living (and feeling/relating/thinking etc)
I often feel like FOO is a theater troupe or something. NM handed out the roles and the script a million years ago. And if you want to survive in my family, you have to talk like NM, be a good little echo.
Oddly, my childhood home always felt like a stage set. From the outside it was immaculate: big house, manicured lawn, landscaping, the works. But inside, it was dark and see-your-breath freezing cold because NM and D wouldn't "waste" money on heating or the electric bill. You couldn't touch the thermostat or flick on a second bulb to better read by. Meanwhile, there were, like, five expensive flood lights constantly illuminating the facade like it was Disney Land, and my parents were burning money on clothes, cars--costumes and props that their imagined "audience" could see.
Sometimes I think the scapegoat is the one who didn't get the script. But maybe that's a cop-out, because I've always been well aware of my role as the black sheep and often played into it. Anyway, my FOO never gets more enraged than they do when I try to go off script, ad lib, improvise, be authentic, acknowledge my reality, etc.
Life with them feels like some kind of acting exercise and I'm the bad student who can't seem to suspend disbelief and play along. They're there on stage like good aspiring actors, "calling me" the phone and I'm the one who refuses to take my cue. I'm the one saying, "that's not really a telephone....you're just talking into your hand." This doesn't serve their production very well. And they sure don't take kindly to it!
Kay x
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From the outside it was immaculate: big house, manicured lawn, landscaping, the works.
THIS is why I'm such a "failure". Gotta be it. I could never, ever, achieve this level of perfection with my house for more than say... 90 seconds. Too busy living life and taking care of the warm-blooded, breathing people in it. Usually this "magic moment" happens in the last hour before company is arriving. Doing my best impression of the Tasmanian Devil, eventually hubs feels "left out" and begins to assist. I rationalize it - say that at least we can start clean... because I know after 30 minutes of welcoming everyone, getting them settled, handing them a drink... that "perfection" is already sliding back to it's normal equilibrium:
hubs pulls out 2-3 magazines from his mystically organized, teetering stacks to share the "latest" with someone
the kid(s) start investigating what kind of toys are in the dog's basket
the dog is still barking, got so excited he peed on the floor
one of us has to take him out
someone asks if I have extra something that they forgot
oops - this kid is hungry
cats are either tearing through the house in panic -- or stealthily sneaking to one of their favorite hiding places
then someone upsets a drink... hubs sets down his magazines where-ever to grab some paper towels... a kid starts howling; stops in less than 5 mins...
then we're off to another space in the house...
letting the road weary stretch, unwind, get their land-legs back...
... and the kid-toys come out... to repose where-ever attention wandered to something else...
and if I'm REALLY into my "hostess-goodie-chick", "good housekeeping" mode... I'll have snacks at hand... dinner's all ready to throw in the oven... and breakfast is pre-made. A lot of times? In reality? That doesn't happen... and we're putting plates of pizza rolls into the microwave.
People don't believe me, when they ask: where does this go? and I say: it doesn't matter... put it where you think it should go and I'll sort it all out later. When I had 4 teenagers in the house -- I learned that this was the trade-off for actually getting some help. Sometimes their ideas of "where this goes" was better than mine... so I kept that arrangement. It's just really so much easier this way... there are no melt-downs... very few scenes or tantrums... no one goes hungry... and if something needs wiped off -- someone does it.
But the house will never make the cover of the "House Beautiful" or be featured on HGTV... those houses have all the "life" edited out of the rooms... nothing personal remains... it's just the bare-bones idea of someone's "concept" or "design" - a stage-set for a paper-doll, 2-D life... it's not a place to curl up under a throw, with a cup o'tea and a cat, and a really good book... and have a nap with my honey.
Until the next batch of company has an ETA.
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Oh P.R.,
I'm so relieved to hear you say that! DH and I are exactly the same way. I'd say on an average day, our house is chaotic, cluttered, pretty messy. Doesn't help that we both work from home and have two toddlers; we are all constantly dirtying dishes, spilling drinks, spilling toys, scattering books around.
We'll all pitch in and do a huge clean if we're expecting company, but even then, we have to do it on the morning before our guests' arrival otherwise it just gets washed away like a sandcastle in the tide. It was actually really lucky we were expecting friends on the afternoon NM made her ambush. The house was uncharacteristically clean.
And forget about landscaping! During NM's surprise visit, she, like, surveyed my garden beds. Pointed out my failure to edge them (as if we have time) and lay down new mulch (as if that's where I want to put our limited money), then went on to tell me all about the new trees, and beds, and $400-worth of mulch she and my dad have applied to their lawn this fall (a shocking sum, given they have no jobs, burned through their retirement cash in less than five years, and are living on god knows what).
We are still new homeowners, a young family, so most of our furniture is junk-shopped and Craigslisted. Or it came with the house, and we slapped a fresh coat of paint on it. It's functional. I like that. And also pretty comfortable. And I quite like the feeling of not having anything that I'm too attached to--nothing that would be worth shouting at my kids over if they broke it or smeared it with food or paint. That was a regular in my FOO's house. It was, like, you couldn't touch anything. Even if it was in your room or was quote-unquote yours. Every Christmas when we were small, NM made a big show of "giving" my sister and I these Madame Alexander dolls. We only got to oooh and ahhh over them for a second (while NM held them in her hand), and then she quickly swept them into a locking glass display case. Forget about playing with them, we never even got to touch them. They were just more accessories for NM's "perfect" house.
I just read that book The Narcissism Epidemic and found my favorite chapters were the ones about homeownership and the way Americans live. The authors point out just how much the square-footage of the American family spiked in the past decade or so, how colossal our living spaces are compared to other cultures. Even if the financial crisis and housing collapse have meant people buy smaller homes (no more McMansions), a lot still spend exorbitant sums spanking their cribs out with granite, stainless steel, etc; people go smaller as an excuse to go more luxurious. The authors argue home ownership is still a lot about "show" and superficialities. Do real friends really care if you have trend-conscious curtains? Who cares if you have Viking appliances, just so long as your appliances work?
Here's to "bad housekeeping!" But hopefully good parenting... My kids and DH are so much more important than my weed-ridden bed and offensive wallpaper.
Kay x
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LOL... oops... looks like my digression hit a couple of nerves! LOL...
Well, so we're all in the same leaky boat as far as Good Housekeeping Awards are concerned, huh? That's probably a REALLY good sign of health. What you said tt, about realizing you're "not in control" -- THAT'S it, really. The key to what winds up the Tasmanian Devil, too. Like there's something bad about not being in control... like the old witch is gonna come along and punish us or put us down, for not being like her -- master of her universe, making everyone "hop to". I would've tried to find a way, to not be the one deciding what item meant the most to someone else - it's a common thing between hubs & me - I don't want to be responsible for his stuff, couldn't possibly know what matters most to him - so I require at least his participation in the process, though I prefer him to do it himself while I do other things. (That rarely happens.)
Yep; I know about Pex piping. Our very first trip down to this house, with a load of stuff from the old one - we had one of my friends with us. As we walked in the door downstairs and started to unload the truck - she pointed out the ceiling in the kitchen was dripping water. I ran upstairs and tried to guess where the water was coming from - cold water supply in the upstairs kitchen island, where it fed into the faucet. Hubs turned the cut-off, right then, we put dishpans under all the sinks that weekend -- and I still don't have cold water at the island...!!
Kay: I live in a house, in a neighborhood full of houses that are "perfect". Folks here call our house the "pretty house"... it's kinda mediterranean, cruciform layout inside with columns & arches... and palm trees outside. The epitome of McMansion. We use solar lights to create shadows through the palm trees onto the walls of the house. The knee-high grass in the bed I didn't get weeded in the 90+ degree humidity finally all fell over. I have weed-trees to saw out of my property border of hollies. It needs to be cool and dry for me to go back in there. We moved from a non-descript, 2-bed/1-1/2 bath brick rancher that had a finished basement and garage for hubs to die for (and it almost killed him to empty out all his "junk" from there when we moved, too.) I could never, ever in my wildest dreams think that someday I would own a house like this. Big patio out back, pool, separate completely closed in poolhouse, too. That's our "adult play room"... our "bar"... Margaritaville, style. I call it the "Miami Vice" house... but it's transforming into something else right now. Part of that is intentional - design; part of that is just our living in the space and figuring out how we live in it.
The "dirty little secret" about these houses... is that most of us clean them and do the bulk of the yardwork ourselves. And so, when you look beyond the first impression - it's far from "perfect". Look up at vaulted ceilings and you'll be sure to find at least one cobweb. There are some HUGE houses here - over 10,000 sq ft. Makes ours seem puny, except that the upstairs - where we really live - is all open, with bedroom wings separated by a very long and wide hallway and an office. Open plans can become "cluttered" simply by living in them. The folks who do have those "perfect" houses? They don't seem very happy, I've noticed. They have less fun, even, than I do... and I'm supposedly a quiet, withdrawn, inhibited introverted sort. Our kids will come right out & say: you don't HAVE to clean for us!! Don't you DARE kill yourself cleaning - we'll be fine. They are used to and most comfortable in "lived in" spaces and only nervous in the "too perfect", "museum quality" House Beautiful environments where one's afraid to put their feet up. I don't want to do that to people, so I've told the Tasmanian Devil to stuff it, on occasion.
So far, I've taught myself that I don't have to be ashamed of having dirty dishes in the sink and the sink drainer out (yeah, I have a dish washer - but hubs & I don't often make enough dishes dirty to run it - so I just hand wash). I don't have to be ashamed of hubs' stacks of magazines everywhere... so far, no one's even mentioned "you must read alot" yet. If they do, I'll just say they're his - LOL!! If you look at other people's houses -- really look -- you'll see the same thing.
BUT: all this talk of houses reminds me -- my T and I talked a lot about Jungian symbolism; my dreams prompted that. Maybe there's enough in that for a whole separate topic... so when I get a chance... I'll take this digression on over to a new thread and dig through it a little more. It must be I sense an early winter coming on... I'm in full hibernation-nesting mode already. And that sort of turns up the wick on the reflection lamp, too.
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((((T.T.))))
I'm so sorry about your supply line. Definitely rest up, take it easy. That clean up job sounds stressful, strenuous. I know what you mean about feeling like it's not under your control. I'm still a pretty new homeowner (been less than a year), but I already feel like this place has a will and a mind of its own!
P.R.,
Your house sounds so beautiful, comfortable, welcoming and calm. I think it's going to be a good long while before DH and I can make our abode beautiful or calm, but in the meantime, we can try for welcoming! When I first started living with DH, I'd get really stressed out about cleaning before anyone came over (still had that mentality from all those years in my FOO's house that everything had to look perfect). Anyway, DH always used to tell me "Don't make it too clean or our friends, family, whoever won't feel comfortable!" I had little idea what he meant at the time, but now I do. There's something really nice about going round someone's house and finding it in its usual state: books scattered, sink full of dishes, messy dinner prep all over the counters; somehow it makes me feel like part of their family. I only hope people who come to my pigsty feel the same!
Kay x
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Odd how backwards that is, isn't it?
If you clean up too much... make things "too perfect"... the normal folk of the world are afraid to sit down and relax. Hubs' cousins have told me: don't you dare clean up... just for us. Don't fuss. We'll be just fine. My kids have forcefully put me in a chair, handed me a drink, and told me: you don't have to do this Mom... we got it. Relax. (And you know I was only able to sit 5-10 minutes, don't you?)
My thing, has a shame aspect to it, for sure. My mom's place - being a hoarder - was claustrophobic for me. Large rooms with only a foot wide path through them... and with dogs & cats... layers of hair, inches thick. I coughed continuously being in there and it was even worse when we were helping her pack up to move. Some of the dirt & dust was decades old (my step-dad wasn't much of a housekeeper either). I only had a couple friends who "knew"... that I wasn't totally embarrassed to let them see the "mess" she preferred to live in.
In my desperation to "not be like her"... I think I got a bit neurotic and obsessive about cleaning, arranging things (I have this OCD thing about creating little still-lifes around the house... wacko-me... it's kinda fun), and I was just sooooo ashamed that someone would look around and think: "ooooo yuck! look at that dust" and then judge me, the way I judged my mom (how could anyone live like that??). There was a whole difference in scale, in comparison, that I wasn't taking into consideration though.
My BFF from high school told tales of how her mom, used to follow behind her after she cleaned the house, with white gloves... to see if she missed any dust. (We made up awful, childish, mean nursery rhymes about her... this was before we knew what an N was.) There's just a whole lot more to life, that a person misses... if you focus on those things that people don't really notice, anyway. Now, I just pick my battles... and if anyone says anything (no, they never do - just compliments)... my "excuse" is that I'm starting to age & slow down... and I just "didn't get there" before I pooped out & company showed up!
:D
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Blergggg....... Two more quick questions on the NC front:
Dilemma #1: And I suspected this would happen... NM sent a package in the mail, which was the one form of communication I didn't explicitly say not to contact me through. It filled me with feelings of revulsion from the first second I saw it, so I tried to sweep it out of sight until I could figure out whether to return it to sender. Anyway, my three year old saw it anyway and begged to open it, so I reluctantly let her (it was addressed to her and my son). No note or anything inside. NM just filled a priority mail box with a bunch of junk (old puppets) from her attic. It was, like, she wanted to send something just to send something. Just to prove I couldn't keep her out of our lives. I also had the feeling of being baited; there's not a chance in hell I'm going to get in touch with NM to thank her, and then of course, she'll have the satisfaction of going around and telling the rest of my family what an ingrate I am. ANYWAY... What should I do about this? I don't want to have any contact with her, including getting in touch again to say please don't contact me by mail. But DH and I were both a bit iffy about taking it back to the post office, which NM will consider a full declaration of war. I also don't want to give this too much thought; that makes me feel like she's winning...she's still managing to disrupt my work schedule and third trimester. Managed to bring the kids out for an autumn drive this afternoon, and we chanced upon this beautiful barn dance with line-dancing and free pony rides. But I still went hours feeling like there was a big cloud hanging over me, dread and depression for the first time since going NC.
Dilemma #2: Before their surprise visit, I'd invited NM and co-NDad to our house for Thanksgiving and Xmas. They didn't say they were coming. In fact, NM ignored the invitation outright and gave the general impression of being aggrieved about the whole thing (every year she insists everyone comes to her house). So it was a bigger deal than it should have been saying NO, we will NOT come to you on Thanksgiving (which is close to my due date) and we will NOT drive three plus hours to see you for X-mas with our newborn baby. But having been NC for a couple of weeks, I find my resolve growing instead of weakening (the exact opposite of what I expected to happen). I really don't want to see them for either holiday, which they will undoubtedly ruin as always. And very likely they'll be even more punishing after this period of being NC. Is it okay to dis-invite them? They haven't even accepted the invitation to begin with and, left up to them, they would likely string us along until the day before just like last year--never saying whether they plan on coming. I can't really imagine how I'd do it. Except maybe to say, that DH and I want to do our own thing this year.
I really can't take them. I don't want to be around them. So far, being NC has only given me more clarity. The more time I spend away from them, the more I realize that their cruelty is so subtle, secretive, systematic and selective (aimed only at scapegoats, "bad" guys like me). I feel like it's truly evil, repulsive and creepy. I just don't want it in my life. Came across this quote by Simone Weil and totally related: "Imaginary evil is romantic and varied, real evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring." I'm so sick of playing out NM's same dull melodrama. I just want away from her.
Anyway, if anyone's got any advice, I'd really appreciate it!
Kay x
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A note, mailed?
We will not be hosting Thanksgiving or Christmas this year, and will be spending the holidays on our own.
best wishes for the holiday season.
Nothing works but I do think, (((((((KZ)))))))) that I recognize this feeling you describe -- I felt it often with my mother. A crawling smothering anxiety that made me nearly phobic about her. It was a very long time before I became unaffected by her smallest gestures.
I think phobic is really how it felt. It DID get better. By late in her life I had ZERO expectation that she would change at all -- and with great age, she no longer had the power to "push my buttons". I wish I could say I had simply won the battle in my own mind to not react or overreact to her. I didn't win, but I became more inured. I no longer expected fairness, reciprocity, sensitivity, courtesy, or lack of manipulation. At the same time, I stopped hating and blaming her for being what she was. I realized that she was what she was. And most of it was beyond her control.
After a looooong time, my choice to view her with compassion (while learning to say No and hold my boundaries) ... enabled me to feel at ease again. (No confusion of compassion with obedience, btw!)
I think you're in a vulnerable state right now and that makes it worse. I think you deserve mothering and lots of it ... but that it will have to be other-mothers. I learned to get it from myself and from amazing groups of women in my church. I was tremendously supported (as I have been here).
I really feel for you, I am so sorry you're feeling this stress (and that she is compulsively passive aggressive toward you). I think you should (if another package comes) LISTEN TO your instant revulsion and respect it -- it was the delay (Until I could figure out whether to return it) that did you in.
Remember this -- an unwanted package does NOT have to be "returned to sender." It can be immediately rushed to the nearest off-premises trash receptacle and dumped in, unopened. And then a major happy distraction -- cooking, calling a friend, watching a totally absorbing movie .. and lost of busyness until the fear of disobeying wears off.
It works!
love toyou
Hops
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I don't know, Kayzee:
I'd be tempted to drop those puppets off at the nearest Goodwill store. Send those creepy puppets out into the universe for someone to enjoy. Yup yup yup.
About the Thanksgiving and Christmas invitations.....
go ahead and cancel those invites, the quicker the better. I hate to think of that hanging over your head too long.
Can you have your husband deal with it? Why are you always the one dealing with it? It's not like you aren;t in your third trimester, and in need of serenity, for goodness sake.
Let dh field just this one, and get it behind you as quickly as you can. Maybe he can make a quick phone call, and say
"Due to current circumstances, we realize it was a mistake to invite you for Christmas etc. Please do not concern yourselves with RSVPing as those plans have been cancelled. Contact won't be taking place until X number of months have passed. Your respectful compliance, or lack thereof, will be part of the decision process going forward, so thanks in advance for being mindful of our wishes. Goodbye.
Click.
I realize that conversation isn't unlikely to go well for dh, so perhaps an e mail? It would make it easier for your parents to broadcast your decision, which would weigh pretty heavily in my decision to cut them out, or not. Maybe you could ask them to keep your private business, private, thus providing one more opportunity for them to hang themselves and prove why you've limited contact and might should cut them out completely. It would really tick me off to have my e mail circulated during the holidays when I was giving birth, and struggling with a personal issue of boundary transgression with my overbearing PD parents.
A break is called for, and it's possible contact will resume, but you don't have to make that decision right now. Maybe trust your gut and play it by ear. See how it goes.
IF they do a good job, you might feel differently when the baby arrives, then again, you may be more certain about keeping he NC rule in place.
Lighter
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Wow, it's like there's a handbook they all share, this is exactly what my mum did!
Kay, I'd take a deep breath and firmly tell yourself not to worry about what your mum tells the rest of your family. She isn't telling the truth, never has, never will. It's really hard, I still struggle with worrying about what people think of me. But you are a good, kind, gracious, loving person and ignoring this randomly sent box of old toys is not a bad thing to do. You've politely asked for no contact. I find this kind of thing very passive aggressive. I agree with Lighter completely, take them to your nearest charity shop/recycling centre/whever you can - someone else will love them and want them, or at least be able to reuse the bits and make something new. You don't need to communicate anything about this. You asked for no contact - you can only control your own side of things so you stick to no contact and just ignore them. And yes, a quick note or email, very simple, as suggested by Hops and Lighter.
Over the years my mum has told dirty, horrible lies about me. It's a terribly cruel form of control, particularly as the person being lied about may have no idea what's being said! But, with hindsight, those that knew me dismissed the lies as nonsense and those that didn't bought into it - but they didn't know me and they weren't part of my life so, as hard as it is to cope with, I think the only thing you can do is work on letting it go. My therapist hammered into me for years the thought that what matters is what I think about myself, not what anyone else thinks. I still find it hard, but it's a good thing to aim for.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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My therapist hammered into me for years the thought that what matters is what I think about myself, not what anyone else thinks. I still find it hard, but it's a good thing to aim for.
The above stands out for me, of all the really good feedback you got, Kay.
This won't be your mom's first grandchild. It's not as if you'd be denying her the excitement of the experience of her first one, you know? My MIL told me one time - after the first couple, the novelty wears off -- even though you're always pleased about a new person joining the family and getting to know them. Let's modify that a bit: lets think about it this way -
Your mom-skills are already top-notch. You're a fluent "mommers". You do have the challenge of fitting a newborn into the family and juggling attention for all 3 -- so that they all have their special time with mom. That is MORE than enough to handle - and we know you have other obligations, too. SURELY, as a mother, your mother can understand that you need your space and some time to adjust to being a bigger family. That's simply par for the course - it's not at all part of your relationship issues with mom. Those issues can wait for ultimate decisions and working through, if that's the path you all take. Because she probably doesn't see it that -- it will have to be enforced by everyone in a position to do so, not just you.
I'll even go so far as to suggest that, in mothering this baby -- in peace -- you'll also do a lot healing yourself. Nurturing yourself is no different than nurturing that little one. Those mom-issues will look a lot different to you after a few months of this. Save any decision-making till then - or even after. Just tune everything else out, let someone else handle it, your task is to take care of yourself & the little cherub. Mom can take care of herself - that's certainly not your job. Don't give it a single thought. That stuff isn't going anywhere -- but life allows you a good long "time out" from even thinking about it. It absolutely does NOT matter what anyone else thinks about this. Period. End of discussion. It's your perogative. And it's necessary, too - for the cherub and brothers & sisters. Mama Tiger knows she can defend them - so doesn't have to worry over that - and turns her attention to caring for the kittens/cubs... being there for them.
You are also well within reason to request that you aren't feeling up to the usual preparations and shindig of the holidays - so won't be hosting or travelling. It's normal to want to just stay home with the newborn and nest awhile... pick up those infant rhythms again and integrate them with the older children and the family schedules. It's even fun, we've found, to scale back on all that holiday hoopla... and enjoy the simple traditions of the season: making cookies, decorating the tree, and making simple, fun, secret presents and just enjoying each other - your very own family unit. It's a bonding ritual that will help create a life-long appreciation of the holidays -- without the commercial glitz, pressure/expectations, and stress -- it creates a happy memory. It also keeps the "melt-downs" to a minimum... especially with kids. They're helping to "make" Christmas... and not so focused on "what they'll get".
People who don't get that? Have an opinion? Well, who are THEY to judge someone else?
You know what they say about opinions: they're like buttholes - everyone has one.
It's not your job to take care of other people's happiness: except for your own and your family's. End of job description... no "other duties as assigned" clause that you are required to allow time and energy for.
I'd just love to be able to peek in on you & baby... and feel that transfer of mama-love in the air! What we didn't have -- we sure know how to create ourselves, don't we? We become the mom we didn't have - because we know SO well what it should be like. Or at least, we try! ;)
Other things just aren't as important.
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Such great advice to you, KZ, including PR's...I would just differ in two little spots with a couple things that happened to be in PR's post but I could've easily written them and likely others too (hope you'll forgive me for sticking nose into your wording, (((PR)))? Just helps me focus the wordbrain...
SURELY, as a mother, your mother can understand that you need your space and some time
I just found my popup response on this was No, her mother literally cannot. Her mother's boundar-ybashing is compulsive and reflects that she really, genuinely, cannot understand KZ's needs for this (could be in the context of motherhood, military service, medical illness, child crisis, interplanetary galactic alien invasion, whatever...her mother literally will not/cannot understand it on any basis, since that's Nism).
And this one, where my klaxons sounded only at one word:
You are also well within reason to request that you aren't feeling up to the usual preparations and shindig of the holidays -
AahOOOgah! No permission needed. No permission! Boundary-setting with her Mom requires the opposite.
But I sure understand what you meant in BOTH instances, PR (and I'm sure you see it too, KZ) -- as in, In What World Does a Person Not Relate to the True Needs of Another Person Whom They Ostensibly "Love"?
N world. Broken world. Non-ideal world.
I live there too and have been on both sides of this fence. I feel for your struggle KZ and feel for your exasperation PR...I share them both!
love
Hops
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Oh boy.... So sorry for the delay. DH, DS and DD all came down with a nasty cold, and I've been running around picking up tissues and dispensing Tylenol for the past two days.
Hops: Thank you so much for kind, compassionate advice. Yes, I think a mailed letter is probably the best way to go; I don't want to get into another back-and-forth email battle with them. (As it stands, I keep having dreams that they find someway to contact me and resume the fight. I spend all night, angry, thrashing in the sheets, dreaming some rebuttal.)
A crawling smothering anxiety that made me nearly phobic about her. It was a very long time before I became unaffected by her smallest gestures.
I think phobic is really how it felt.
I can't tell you how much I relate to this. Especially the "phobic" part! I've been reading M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie: the Hope for Healing Human Evil and was really affected by one of the case studies in it, about a woman who was deathly afraid of spiders and came to realize her NM was very spider-ish in the way she clung to and smothered her daughter, held her in her web, etc.
Anyway, I realized years ago that my mouse-phobia was directly related to my mother. But it was only after this NC fiasco that I realized how. NM was always very mouse-like in her intrusions when I lived in her house. Like, I'd always find her eavesdropping on my conversations, barging in on me when I was in my bedroom or the bath, going through my stuff, etc. The thing that's always freaked me out about mice, is the same thing that freaks me out about NM: both just scuttle out with no notice, catch a person off guard. That's exactly what NM did with her surprise visit. And she's been very "mouse-like" in these few weeks of NC too; like a mouse, she seems to tunnel through any barrier, fit through the smallest hole, scale up to places you wouldn't guess she'd be able to. I guess I've realized, I've always been quite a doormouse in the way I've dealt with her. For most of my adult life, people have hinted that I'm mousey, not-assertive enough, voice is a squeak, scuttle around hoping to go unnoticed. I've certainly always tried to just stay out of NM's way rather than standing up to her.
At any rate... such a phobia tangent. Sorry. All to say, I can't thank you enough for understanding and relating (as well as the advice!). It gives me hope to know you got to a place where NM's tricks and meaning didn't work on you. At the moment, it's hard to imagine ever feeling comfortable around her. She gives me the willies, makes me fearful. I just want to run.
Kay x
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Thank you Lighter!
I'm definitely going to take your advice re: those creepy puppets! It was such a funny choice of gift when you get down to it. DH was, like, "Are these puppets a metaphor or something? There are three of them. It's like, in your NM's mind, they're you, your dad and your sister!" They also reminded me a little bit of the puppets that feature in Gillian Flynn's Gone Girl. (Such a good thriller! I won't spoil it for anyone who might be interested in reading.)
I'm reluctant to have DH do the uninviting, and generally try to keep him out of the family N-sanity as much as possible. Just because NM scapegoated him quite a bit when we first began dating, and for someone from a relatively normal, loving, empathetic family it really, really hurt and confused him. I swear, NM was such a vicious hag to DH during our wedding, I was a little bit worried he was going to change his mind completely and leave me hanging at the altar! For his part, DH is really understanding about my family, but their constant drama is the one thing in my marriage that I always feel truly apologetic about. I don't want my parents to make a villain of him the way they did with my sister's ex-husband (although there, they had my sis's collusion).
Mostly, I want to make it very clear that NC is my choice. I think it's an important step for me, not only the kindest option for DH. Also, I know how my folks work in these situations, and unless I fight this battle myself, they will convince themselves that DH is "corrupting me" and "turning me against them." They look for any excuse to self-deceive and insist there's no real problem.
At any rate, thank you so much for talking this through with me! I swear, I don't know what I'd do without you all.
Kay x
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((((Tup)))))
I'm so sorry your NM spread lies about you. The triangulation thing is what hurts and enrages me most about Ns! I feel, like saying to NM: "Fine, be malicious, be devious, cover over your cruelty with expressions of 'love,' but let's just battle one-on-one, okay? It'll still be gross and soul-crushing, but at least it will be fair." But they just can't do it... Powerless as I feel around NM, she must feel weaker, or she wouldn't need to go around enlisting everybody she knows.
It's really hard, I still struggle with worrying about what people think of me.
This means so much. I'm so glad to know I'm not alone.
I think I'm just really sensitive to NM's triangulations because I'm still grieving the way NM managed to effectively ruin my relationship with my sister and father. But even then, I know deep down that she just took away the illusion of a relationship. Because dad and sister have always been scared of her, they've never been particularly understanding or compassionate to me, they've always been willing to sell me out to NM as soon as it served their purpose, spared them from her or elevated them in her eyes. I haven't lost a real give-and-take, emotionally-intimate relationship, I've just lost this "idea" of having a family. But for whatever reason, it still hurts.
My aunt and uncle are the only real FOO I have. The only ones who've ever been willing to talk about feelings (mine and theirs), been able to grieve or celebrate with me. And our relationship is strong and real enough that I don't think NM could change that. You're right...the people who truly know us and our Ns, can't be deceived. But there's always a little inkling of worry. (Ugh, still remember the time NM lied about me to aunt and uncle on the day of my middle school graduation. She told them I'd called them stupid or something, and they left mid-ceremony and were angry with me for a while. I had such Stockholm Syndrome, I convinced myself I must have said it and failed to remember it because what kind of mother would lie about such a thing?)
Anyway, this period of NC would be a good time to work on not worrying what other people think. I picture a nice winter hibernation, where I can just work on the things I think need improving: a few home-projects, a few more mommy-toddler play dates, definitely finishing deadlines and lining up some more work, and, of course, helping the little ones adjust to a new baby (and adjusting myself)!
lots of love to you Tup & thanks for the help,
Kay x
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(((((P.R.)))))
Thank you. Your post made me cry....
I know exactly what you mean. I'm so grateful to be able to experience a normal mother-child bond from at least the "mommy" side. It's incredibly healing. Not in the way of my NM, mind you, who had kids so they would love and attend to her as though she was the infant! But rather, knowing the way I feel about my own kids--knowing how much I want to cuddle and protect them and yet how amazing it feels to watch them take tiny steps towards self-growth and independence--it makes me realize just how deeply, profoundly, chemically effed-up my NM was/is. I guess, in becoming a mom, I see now that the way she treated me and the fact she couldn't love me wasn't my fault. I see just how vulnerable and dependent I was in the way my kids are so vulnerable and dependent. I look at them, and I just can't imagine how anyone could do or say half the things NM did to a child who was so small, emotional, eager to learn and connect.
Save any decision-making till then - or even after. Just tune everything else out, let someone else handle it, your task is to take care of yourself & the little cherub. Mom can take care of herself - that's certainly not your job. Don't give it a single thought. That stuff isn't going anywhere -- but life allows you a good long "time out" from even thinking about it. It absolutely does NOT matter what anyone else thinks about this. Period. End of discussion. It's your perogative. And it's necessary, too - for the cherub and brothers & sisters.
I don't quite know how to thank you for this. It's like the doctor's note I'm not strong enough to give myself yet. I guess I still have so much guilt and shame, I'm too eager to provide a million excuses and reasons against doing the things I badly want to do. It's really nice to hear someone say, "It's okay. Take your time-out, trust your gut."
Thank you from the bottom of my heart,
Kay x
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Aw Kay... one thing you need to know about me is that I'll battle against the forces of evil for other people, just as I would battle to save myself. Must've read too much classical lit or something. You're welcome... to any of the tools I've got, in carrying on the battle yourself.
(and Hops: if I ever get around to writing a book, you'll be my editor, right?? :D Yes, thank you for fixing the words and seeing the meaning. I can't believe I let that one slip about her mom having some understanding - even if it was only social norms or intellectual - about the need for space. DUH, Amber... ::smacks forehead:: )
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Hi Kay,
Definitely focus on you and yours. I often find it helps to ask myself what I'd tell my son to do in that situation in the future - if someone was lying about him, disrespecting his boundaries, making him feel guilty about things that weren't his fault, would I tell him to keep hanging out with them? You can guess the answer to that one.
Slowly, slowly, slowly I've worked my family out of my life. They aren't part of it any more, their tentacles still reach out but the can't grasp me. I've rebuilt it on my rules. My home is messy, grubby, none of the furniture matches, there's a defunct dishwasher in the hall that's been there for months waiting for me to organise a refuse collection for it, if friends come round and the house is clean they always assume we must be moving out. But it's full of love. My son plays with his toys for as long as he wants, we paint things, make things, there are books everywhere, little pots with seeds he has planted, piles of wood in the corner to make things out of, bulbs to plant for spring. He goes to bed happy every night, with a kiss and a cuddle. He's not aware of it, but he's completely safe in his own bed, no-one will be going in his room in the night and stealing his childhood away from him. Focus on you and your babies (and your hubby!). They're your family and the more you focus on them, the more your mum and dad, your sister and anyone else who doesn't really know or value you as you are, will fade away and become less and less important over time. When your kids are older and they look back on their childhood they'll have such good memories of you and the time they spent with you. That's a really lovely thing to give them xxx