Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Cadbury on November 21, 2004, 05:25:04 AM
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Hi Everyone,
I'm new to this board and came here through an UK Cosmo article. My problem is my Nboyfriend. I left my husband to be with him as I had been desperately unhappy in my marriage and believed all the things my bf said about how much he loved me. Things were absolutely fantastic for about 7 months and then I started noticing all this behaviour that I now recognise as part of NPD. He tells me he loves me, but constantly critiscizes me. When I protest he says he isn't critiscizing, just helping me to become a better person. Through being with him I lost contact with most of my family as he believed that if I loved him I should never want to spend any time away from him.
Even though I am now pregnant with his child, I have been trying to leave him now for over a month. We have conversations that go like this:
"I don't want to be with you anymore. I haven't been happy"
"If you keep rejecting me, I will go"
"That's good. I want you to go"
"See, you said it again. What's your problem?"
These can go on for hours. If I say what it is that has made me unhappy, he takes it as a personal attack and goes mad. "I hate you for this. How dare you do this to me" etc etc ...
I am physically exhausted, emotionally drained and I don't know what else to do. Does anyone have any advice? How do you dump someone who cannot believe you would dare?!! I sound like I am coping, but I really am not so any replies would be appreciated. Thank you!
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Hello Cadbury,
Welcome to the board. Hope you find the help you need here. I certainly have (in most threads, anyway).
I can relate to the dilemma with your boyfriend. Although pregnancy wasn't a factor, I had given up/rearranged most of my life to pursue my ex-N's dream which removed me from the familiarity of family and friends. We actually moved to another city and I left my job. Talk about taking a risk! I can see now it was his way of isolating me in order to achieve complete control.
At any rate, the break up cycle (trying to leave him) is eerily reminiscent of what you shared. No sooner had we moved, I started feeling very uneasy because he didn't seem happy. This was evidenced by a 6-month compulsive buying spree (big ticket items) that left us financially unstable. When I queried him about his happiness, and shared that I felt extremely vulnerable since I was now depending on him as the breadwinner, he would turn it around and accuse me of wanting to run or leave him. This tit-for-tat went on for months. I got more and more sucked into his way of thinking. At the end of 7 months of this, I didn't know if I was coming or going. Throughout the summer I left (or threatened to leave) a couple of times because things were going so poorly. He attributed this to the sole demise of our relationship.
I can see now that HE was the one who wanted to leave. Having taken on a lot of responsibility by supporting my daughter and me, this no longer afforded the freedom or fun that he thought he deserved. I sensed that he viewed me as a burden (no fun for an N who is seeking supply). I felt extremely hurt and compromised. It was a huge step for me to trust him enough to pursue "the dream" and I had gone from being an ultra-independent woman to a sniveling, fearful and dependent person.
With hindsight, I can now see he did EVERYTHING to sabotage our relationship. I was so caught up in thinking that I was the problem (because this is what he told me) that I tried everything to save the relationship. As I look back with our couples counselor (who got to know his patterns) it's very clear that he wanted out but spun it so that I felt responsible. It wouldn't have looked good in his grandiose world to be thought of as someone who abandoned a woman and her child in a strange city with little support and no job.
Life was so crazy during the breakup cycle, that I lost 20 pounds and started smoking. I am on the mend but it was a fast trip to hell. My advice to you, Cadbury, is to trust your instincts and take care of yourself (and your child) first -- come what may. I was afraid to make the leap and terrified of what this would mean financially but am a firm believer that "we get what we need when we need it." I am managing to turn my life around and realize now that the fear of what would happen to me if I left my N was worse than the reality of it.
I'll leave you with one of my favorite Eleanor Roosevelt quotes: "You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself: 'I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.' You must do the thing you think you cannot do."
Good luck and keep us 'post'ed :D
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Welcome Cadbury,
Here is a site that's helped others here. The article I recommend first is, "Identifying Losers in Relationships." It talks about the most effective ways to safely break up with an abuser:
http://www.drjoecarver.com/
take care,
bunny
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Thank you those who have replied so far.
Bunny - I just read that article you sent me to. I cried and cried with all kinds of emotions. Mostly relief that I am not mad and that he is what I thought he was. Nearly every word rang true. Especially stuff about the break up. He has done every one of thos things. Threatened to go back to his ex (who doesn't want him anyway), threatened to kill himself, says he doesn't want anything to do with our baby, says no one else will put up with me, etc etc. I will try all the techniques in the article and hope that it helps. I find it hard because a part of me (obviously a very stupid part) misses him like mad. It's the good part I miss. Although I have to say that after reading all the articles I have I am beginning to see that those good things don't really exist and are all part of the game he plays.
I will keep you posted. I think I need to go to a counsellor about it all, as I do feel as though I have lost all sense of self through this relationship. Is this common?
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Dear Cadbury,
I just read your post and I don't know if it is common to lose "ones self" but I sure can relate to that statement. I was told for so long how most everything that went wrong was my fault that I still have a hard time shaking that. My former husband was abusive; especially emotionally and psychologicaly. Today I am struggling with...."Who am I?" My reality was dictated to me and my feelings were discounted. It is almost like I underwent brainwashing and now I have to pick and sort what is True and what is not. It is a horrible feeling and I am working with a counselor. The separation/divorce process is horrible right now and some days I am not sure I am going to make it. I have 3 children, 16, 13 and 8. The 13 year old does not live with me and his dad does not want my middle one to see me. A few nights ago I asked to talk to my middle child and his dad said he couldn't come to the phone because he was busy playing a computer game. I asked if he could return my call later then. Later never happened. This happens quite often. The next time I was on the phone I tried to make arrangments for my middle child to come over this weekend. His dad said that my son didn't want to because I caused great Hurt to him by splitting up with his dad. His dad told me that my son doesn't want anything to do with me because of hurting his dad. Everything seems to take on a twist of what I have done to him and the kids become pawns.
Where are all my feelings in all this? I keep them to myself, or share with my friends. It seems like he shouts his feelings to his kids through actions like this and others.
So...Who am I? I don't know if others have felt this way.....but I feel like someone who got swallowed up by an abusive N and is just beginning to find my path......very shakily and with no confidence....but trying to stay on the path of discovering myself again.
Meadow
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Cadbury,
On the same site is an article called "Love & Stockholm Syndrome: Loving an Abuser." It might help you.
bunny
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well cadbury i am new to this board too, if fact i came here through the cosmo article too - i thought i was mad! everythign you say is EXACTLY the same as me - i how ever get really bad threats to myself and my family that i will be killed etc - but what do you do? beleive or not beleive??
i have just ordered 2 books off of amazon that i am gonna read: walking on egg shells and i hate you dont leave me - so ill let you know how they go. Herne bay isnt too far from me either im in sidcup kent.
i feel my life is slowly drifting away from me and im half (if not less) than the person i was before - my only escape is going to work - something he hates also. He's slowly cutting me off from my family too and i dont know what to do. Because i live with him i will loose everything i have ever owned and be left with debts. but i think i would rather that than to continue for much longer. I dont know. I just know that you arent alone as i thought i was, it IS a known condition and there is ligth at the end of the tunnel - only i;'ve yet to get there myself yet!!! xx
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Bunny -- thank you for the articles. They're a great resource. I, too, cried while reading them -- especially the "The Loser" article. Unfortunately, my ex-N fit all descriptors but two. This explains why I felt so stressed, drained, uncertain, depressed and confused.
I am very glad to see people being brought to the site through the Cosmo article, too.
As I said in my earlier post to Cadbury, no one can make the decision for another as to ending/staying in a relationship. I will say this, however, if you think things will get better, they in all likelihood won't. Life will only get worse with an N. As they wear you down and chip away at your sense of self, it is more and more difficult to find the stamina and fortitude to leave.
I, too, faced great financial uncertainty with the prospect of breaking it off with my N. However, the fear of losing my sanity outweighed my fear of financial insecurity. What I wasn't able to do for myself, at the time, I was able to do for my daughter. I realized that she was suffering greatly while living in the chaos and foment of our household. In terms of her welfare, I was able to see things more clearly and it became very apparent that if my daughter was in the type of relationship that I was in, I'd tell her to run like hell.
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Cadbury, great name, wish I’d thought of a chocolate maker’s name – mmm!
My thoughts: How old are you? How pregnant are you? Are you happy to be pregnant?
Why were you so unhappy with your husband - was he similar in character to your boyfriend? (Because if so, you need to know how you’re going to avoid falling for this type of man again.)
If/when you leave your boyfriend, do you have plans on how you’ll practically cope? (I’m assuming you live at ‘his’ place and that to leave him you will have to leave the home.) Are you financially independent?
Can you stay with your family? Getting back in contact with your family – and/or friends – is a positive thing you can do right now. You need time to think away from this relationship. Can you try just a week away from him? P
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Hi Meadow. I may have missed news from you, but wanted to ask how things are with your daughter? (Sorry if you've already mentioned this elsewhere). P
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Thanks everyone! UKgirl, we should meet up! It could only help (if we can get away!!)
My situation is slightly complicated. I met my husband when I was 17 and he was 33. We were together for 10 years and I was starved of affection. He never cuddled me or kissed me and although we were friends that was really all. My bf was someone I had known at uni who then abducted his son and left the country for 7 years. He came bac last year, was arrested and contacted me when he was released. It isn't as bad as it sounds in that he has been justified in being awarded custody of his son now as the mother was as mad as he had tried to prove. Anyway, he made me feel so utterly special that I was absolutely swept of my feet. We have had a hell of a year as I have two small children from my ex (I'm truly not as bad as I sound!) and I am now four months pregnant with my bf's child (planned and very much wanted).
I am lucky enough not to be financially dependant on him and so the seperation is easy in that sense, but he obviously wants to be part of the baby's life. THe Loser article described him so exactly that I know I have to get away from him, but he plays games with me all the time. He spends days saying that he can accept the relationship is over and he will try and help as much as possible with the baby and then days where he willl phone me late at night and tell me he hates me and he is going to make me pay for what I have done to him. He tries to make me feel guilty for all the things he has done for me. He threatens to confront my family about my childhood, he threatens to hit my ex husband (Who is actually a very nice man, that accepted that the marriage should end) and all kinds of things. He tries to make my daughters want him more than me by almost refusing to let me do things for them and just generally erodes me from within.
I am trying to follow the advice in the article, but he came round last night after I had specifically asked him not to and spent hours making me feel terrible and messing with my head, before holding me close and kissing me and telling me he can't live without me. It goes on and on and it is getting to the stage where I start thinking I should go back to him just to stop the endless cycle. Sorry to go on for so long, but I have been so isolated for so long that I am unburdening it! You can ignore it if you want!
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I am trying to follow the advice in the article, but he came round last night after I had specifically asked him not to and spent hours making me feel terrible and messing with my head, before holding me close and kissing me and telling me he can't live without me.
You let him stay for hours after specifically asking him not to come over. He knows your boundaries are weak and he can trample on them. Can you work on your boundaries and limit-setting?
It goes on and on and it is getting to the stage where I start thinking I should go back to him just to stop the endless cycle.
There are children involved here so please protect them by not going back.
bunny
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Cadbury, you said:
He tries to make my daughters want him more than me by almost refusing to let me do things for them and just generally erodes me from within.
It is your choice and your responsibility to do things for your daughters. If you allow a man to stop you, that’s your choice. You’re putting him before your children and your children will recognise that. They will blame you in later years for their psychological problems!
You have a duty of care for your children. They come first!
Also, confronting your family about your childhood sounds interesting. Is it something you want to do? It’s something people here have thought about, talked about and even done in some cases. Talking about this here might be useful to you? We’ve had conversations here about difficult subjects so please talk if you wish. On the other hand, you mentioned seeing a counsellor – that sounds like a very good idea. Are you following it up?
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Well Cadbury, i relate to it all i really do - im thinking of just upping and leaving - but that means loosing everything i have ever worked for/ possesed including my clothes! i will ahve to give up my job and move away - i beleive its the only way to rid myself of him. Cadbury, theres nothing more than i would like to meet up and chat about it all, knowing someone is feeling just what i do is so enlighting too, but there is no way on this earth i will be "allowed" out!!! Comign home from work the other night and my train was cancelled so i had to make my way home by alturnative route - when i got home (half hour after i normally get in) a photo of us both had disappear he was siting there fumong at me, then later on started saying i stared this all get this, by sitting on a different seat in out house rather than sitting next to him!!!!!!??????
I know im not mad - but i am slowly going mad i know i am. But i am reading 'Stop walkign on egg shells' and i must say its really good really interesting - i ordered if off amazon, i also got "i hate you dont leave me" but am yet to read that. i would recomend having a look at it - but again its havng to hide it so they dont find it and then throw a fit at you. at the end of the day - the only person we a loosing is ourselves, and the only person who is being decieved is again ourselves by ourselves.
But there is hope, and there is a way out - its just easier said than done. xx
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Thanks again.
What he does with my daughters is he will ask them "Who do you want to pick you up from nursery today? Mummy or me?" They are three and a half and two years old so they answer to please him "you!". He then tries to make this a big issue by telling me I will be making them unhappy if I don't let him pick them up. I don't give in, but it isn't nice. If I make them a snack of fruit or toast or something (I try to get them to eat healthily) he will offer them a chocolate biscuit and when I say no I look like the "bad mummy".
When he came round the other night even though I'd asked him not to, he sent his son to the door and I can't have the big "you can't come in" thing with an eleven year old little boy who has been through so much already. Plus, his van had broken down and he couldn't start it easily. I know I should be stronger, but I guess my boundaries are weak. Does any one have any tips on setting strong boundaries?
I suffered minor sexual abuse when I was younger, by a close family member whom I have now forgiven and we get on well. My bf knows all about this and threatens to bring it up. This would open so many wounds in my family that it would destroy a lot of relationships. It is my ex-abuser who has offered to go to my bf and ask him to leave me alone. I don't think he knows what my bf (and others in narcissistic rage) can be like and I want to stop this from happenening. For this reason I have to hide a lot of things from my family in order to protect them.
How often do N people carry out their threats? Are they something to worry about?
UKgirl - where do you work (location not specifics!!) - we could meet at lunch one day perhaps?
I know I don't want to go back to him. I know he will make me unhappy. How long could it take for him to get the message? I am looking for a counsellor and hope to have an appointment soon.
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Oh Cadbury. Your boyfriend uses children to get what he wants. You might be used to being used and you might think it’s okay. It’s not okay. It’s wrong. Use is abuse.
I’m sorry Cadbury. You set boundaries by knowing what is good and helpful and healthy for you and your kids. You tell him next time he sends his son to your door, you’ll invite his son in, but not him. That’s outrageous, reprehensible behaviour on his part.
You’re protecting your ex-abuser and your family. You are not responsible for any of them! You are only responsible for yourself and your children. Please understand this. Your children are the most important people in your life. Please protect them and you. Not your boyfriend, not your family and particularly not the person who abused you.
And minor sexual abuse is never minor, and it’s not just sexual. Have you received any kind of therapy or counselling for what happened?
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i work in london, holborn who about yourself?? where have you gone about looking for a theropist??....i have no idea, but would like to for him and for me.
Did you know he had this condition before you read about it?? i didnt! i knew he werent right telling me what to do etc, but my thoughts where he was just jealous and possessive of me- agaon not a very healthy thing to be.
Mine has added conditions....he drinks quite alot and uses drugs which send him off...and tonight is usually his mid week "top up!!!" so i can look forward to no sleep, threats and lots of crying. Its generally how the cycle goes.
and i thought it was only me who got the threats - especially that my family will be killed, firebombed and i will have the same and gang raped and acid thrown in my face. God, reading back this makes me think why the hell did i even let it get so far?? What is wrong with me>>!??!!?
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I know my children come first. I hadn't seen what he was doing as a form of abuse of them, so thank you for waking me up to it.
What is the best way of letting him know the boudaries. I think I will be stronger at sticking to them now when I think of the effect the relationship could have on my children. Should I email him? The big problem (I don't know if this is part of the disorder or not) is that he doesn't tend to pay attention to what is written. I don't really want to phone him as it tends to go off on a tangent. So what could be the best approach here.
Does anyone have any ideas/experience in how to approach the involvement with the baby? I don't really want him to have a big part in the baby's upbringing as I have seen the way he is with his son. I don't doubt he loves his son (and would our baby), but he is very hard on him over the least thing. He seems to have no allowance for the fact that he is a little boy who does silly things sometimes and can be careless. I try to say it is because he is a child but my bf seems to expect ridiculously high standards from him. I don't want my baby growing up like that. Do you think it would be unreasonable to exclude him from the rest of the pregnancy? He has threatened that if I don't want to be with him then he won't have anything to do with the baby. I would actually quite like that, but don't know if it is fair on the baby. I love children and am a good mother, I say this because he does try to make me doubt myself so a little positive affirmation - hope you don't think I'm bigheaded. So I don't worry too much about bringing the baby up on my own. I just don't want him to use the baby as a pawn. What sort of worries do I have to have before I can limit contact to an absolute minimum. Sorry if a lot of these issues are irrelevant, but I thought I may as well ask incase anyone has any experience.
I am in Canterbury kent - UKgirl, but if you ever can get away pm me and ask!
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The above post is me by the way - I didn't realise I wasn't logged in. You probably realised that anyway!
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What is the best way of letting him know the boudaries.
Through action. If you tell him not to come around, then don't let him in the door. Not even if he sends his son ahead of him (he is abusing his son by doing this). Be firm and stand your ground, no matter what manipulation he uses. Don't email him and don't talk to him. Just be firm when he comes around.
I try to say it is because he is a child but my bf seems to expect ridiculously high standards from him. I don't want my baby growing up like that. Do you think it would be unreasonable to exclude him from the rest of the pregnancy?
He already abuses his son. He will also abuse your baby if you allow it. I wouldn't believe any threats about not having anything to do with the baby - of course he will. That is his easiest way to see you, to manipulate and abuse you. Your job is to protect your baby. He is not a good parent: he manipulates, blackmails and bribes little children for his own purposes.
I hope you can see a therapist as soon as possible...
bunny
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Cadbury-
Boundary & limit setting is key here for you.I hope you are trying really hard to find a counselor and that you find one soon.
Without this help it sounds like the exact life you are leading now could carry on a very long time. Like someone said, he knows you have weak boundaries and knows he can break them and exactly how.
Should I email him? The big problem (I don't know if this is part of the disorder or not) is that he doesn't tend to pay attention to what is written. I don't really want to phone him as it tends to go off on a tangent. So what could be the best approach here.
Yes- conversations with N's tend to get circular and pointless. You can always e-mail him. I read what you said about that but taking it seriously/paying attention to it is his problem not yours, Cadbury.
Then, you'd have to abide by what you'd said or the e-mail will have been meaningless.That is the hard part- the keeping up of boundaries.
I hope you find some help to do so soon, but you can even start reading books about strengthening boundaries [sorry I don't have any suggestions-maybe others might].
Just my opinion but what I don't think would be "fair' on the baby, is to very knowingly expose it to an abusive N father. You already said you don't think he loves his current son [and you don't want that for your child].
You might meet a lovely man one day who would be wonderful father and adopt the child as his own [with you of course]
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So I am trying to stick to boundaries. I am finding it hard. I have managed to make sure that he doesn't phone me or "pop" round whilst my children are awake so at least they have no contact with him.
He has offered to change and I have said that I don't want him to, that I just don't want to be in this relationship. I keep repeating that no matter what he says and I'm hoping that it will eventually go in.
When N's come out with all there "love comments" i.e. I have never loved anyone like this, you are so special etc etc do they mean any of it? Do they even *think* they mean it? Or do they purposefully say it in order to entrap you further? That is what I find hard. He says such lovely things then acts like such an arse. He has made me so happy and yet so unbearably sad. I know I don't want to be with him. I know that. So is this constant attention just a tool he uses to make sure I don't leave. I feel very confused by it all.
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He has offered to change and I have said that I don't want him to, that I just don't want to be in this relationship. I keep repeating that no matter what he says and I'm hoping that it will eventually go in.
Dialogue becomes pointless and if you are serious about cutting him out of your life, whenever you feel ready to try, zero contact will be the best way.
When N's come out with all there "love comments" i.e. I have never loved anyone like this, you are so special etc etc do they mean any of it? Do they even *think* they mean it? Or do they purposefully say it in order to entrap you further?
Depends. Some N's mean it at the time [but it will be a fleeting, and never a lasting feeling], some don't mean it and know very well they are manipulating for their own purposes.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because even if they mean it while they are saying it, they will never be able to sustain in a relationship, what those word mean. Things will turn around on a dime.
Relationships with N's are only emotionally abusive and that is the one quality they can naturally sustain.
That is what I find hard. He says such lovely things then acts like such an arse.
Always believe behaviors over words.
I know I don't want to be with him. I know that. So is this constant attention just a tool he uses to make sure I don't leave. I feel very confused by it all.
Yes the constant attention is a tool he uses. Don't mistake the attention showed to you as being about you. It is only about him. getting what he thinks he needs for emotional survival.
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Thank you for the response. I think I knew all that deep down. I keep trying to tell myself that in a "normal" relationship you get those good things without the crap. That is what I keep thinking of when I'm feeling lke I will never be loved that way again. I suppose that what he gives me isn't love as it should be anyway and were he to find someone else who would give him the same attention he would "love" them just as much, just as quickly. I feel so stupid to have fallen for it all and to have stayed so long when I haven't been happy.
It's like if I go along with his whims and give him exactly what he wants/needs and don't complain when he puts me down and cuts me off from everyone. If I put up with all the abuse and don't disagree with a word he says, then we can have a beautiful relationship!! Why couldn't I see all this before?
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This post is purely to vent annoyance and feelings about him! I have to get it off my chest and this seemed the best place to do it!
My bf thinks he is the most gorgeous man on the planet. He is good looking admittedly, and he is definitely my type. However, he's not so good looking that he is out of this world or anything. So whenevr he goes somewhere he is like "Do you see that girl over there looking at me" He tells me that everywhere he goes women look at him. Even when he went to his son's school he said that a lot of the girls there were looking at him. He says it as if it is a huge inconvenience to him and he can't understand why. But he is so bigheaded about it and he genuinely means it. He really thinks that women are following him everywhere. He even says to me "I could have any woman I wanted, but I only want you" as if I should be so grateful to have been chosen from the multitudes!
He cannot help but comment on everything anyone says and he has to drop in little bits of information to show how much he knows. He thinks people will then think he is so impressively clever, when in reality they just think he is an overbearing, pompous arse. I am doing a PhD in mathematics and he will look over my shoulder and say things like "yes, I can see that. It's actually very easy." Even if I turn round and say "Is it? Because I am stuck, so can you explain it to me" he just laughs. It's like he has to know more about everything than anyone else. He makes me feel as though what I am doing is so easy and unimportant that I may as well not bother. He says that he finds maths easy, but he just isn't interested in it.
He keeps sending me messages saying that he feels rejected and it is my rejection of him that is destroying the relationship?!! How can he not take the fact that I don't want to be with him? Everytime I say that it is over he says "you've said it again. How many more times are you going to reject me?" I replied "If you had gone the first time you wouldn't have had to be rejected so many times" HE JUST LAUGHS!! God, I think I am going mad at times
*****END OF RANT*******
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Everytime I say that it is over he says "you've said it again. How many more times are you going to reject me?" I replied "If you had gone the first time you wouldn't have had to be rejected so many times" HE JUST LAUGHS!!
If you wait for him to enforce your "it's over" decree, it will be a long wait indeed......
bunny
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As long as you continue to communicate with him whether in person, on the telephone, or by email you still have a relationship. If you really want it to be over, stop it!
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Flowers at my door, poetry sent by email, music sent by email, long beautiful emails...... it goes on and on. Is this a "normal" thing for N's to do when you have left? It is almost making me feel like I have made a huge mistake, but I have kept one of his messages he sent whilst in a "rage" and that stops me from doing anything about the feelings. I just find that I am missing the nice parts of the relationship, being held and loved and worshipped. I know the bad bits are not worth it, but I am pregnant with his child and I feel that I will never have anyone again so I guess I just start to get lonely and feeling a little sorry for myself (pathetic I know). What can I do to get over this? I can't see it getting any easier.
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That repertoire of pleasantries -- flowers, poems, gifts, e-mails -- sounds familiar. And, yes, Cadbury it's very tempting to think you're making a mistake. I clung to those pleasantries thinking all the while "this is the real person -- the kind one -- who is showering me with attention and nice things...he truly must be seeing things my way and having a change of heart."
WRONG -- this wasn't real. It was part of the fantasy that I fell for in the first place. It's different for everyone, I suppose. However, if an N isn't done with you, or it isn't their idea to leave/move on, my experience showed they'll do just about anything to get you hooked in again. Just when you think they've learned, that your relationship will become better for this upheaval, you let your guard down hoping to return to normalcy and-- BAM! The merry-go-round of Jekyll/Hyde -- the nice/mean cycle --starts all over again. The good stuff gets fewer and further between. The conflicts/chaos become more frequent. And no matter what, it's ALWAYS your fault for whatever comes down the pike.
I, too, worry about loneliness and am not even facing pregnancy. So I can empathize with you, Cadbury. Please be true to yourself (and your child). You'll know what's right if you can get quiet and still enough to hear the truth within yourself.
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Thank you for your reply. That really helps actually. It's like I know it myself, but hearing someone else say it makes it more real somehow.
Since having found this board, I can see a lot of his behaviour as a kind of outsider. I see something he does that is such typical N behaviour and whereas before I would have taken it to heart and tried to "fix" it, now I just see it for what it is and that is helping me to distance myself. It's nights like tonight where I am on my own as my twoo little girls are with their father for the night and I am cold and lonely and really want the intimacy that I know he can give me if I give in. That is when I am at my lowest and get most tempted. I guess this will get easier sa I go along, but it is hard at the moment. Talking on this board and reading all the other posts helps me to see that I can do this and that I definitely do not want to go back to him whatever happens.
As an aside: Is it common for N's to use sex as a tool? My bf is very good at it and almost puts my pleasure before his own. He then uses this to try and lure me into bed. Not so much now I don't see him as often, but he has written some emails etc. Once or twice his behaviour has come close to assault in that he won't listen to me when I say no. I say it over and over and in the end have to force him to leave me alone at which point he sulks as though I've done something wrong by refusing him!
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As an aside: Is it common for N's to use sex as a tool? My bf is very good at it and almost puts my pleasure before his own. He then uses this to try and lure me into bed. Not so much now I don't see him as often, but he has written some emails etc. Once or twice his behaviour has come close to assault in that he won't listen to me when I say no. I say it over and over and in the end have to force him to leave me alone at which point he sulks as though I've done something wrong by refusing him!
In my situation I found that sex was very much of a tool or weapon, if you will. The last few encounters with my N felt very different -- odd and strained. And, yes, he didn't respect me when I said 'no.' It was near the end of our relationship and I thought sex would complicate things, so I tried to refrain. By that time, however, it was the only time I felt close to him so I was very conflicted.
As for feeling lonely, Cadbury, there are many ways to find comfort other than back in the arms of our N. It's been 2-1/2 months since I left my relationship and 3 weeks without any contact whatsoever. I am starting to feel clear-headed and almost 'normal' again. For a while I really didn't think I'd make it through -- was in more emotional pain than I'd realized -- but through counseling, friends and another support group (and this board) I am managing to see light at the end of the proverbial tunnel. Took time and, I might add, some lonely nights to start crossing over to the other side. Be patient and gentle with yourself.
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Thank you Bludie.
It is so good to be able to talk about this without feeling as though I've gone mad. It is nice that there are people who understand. I have found it hard to explain to friends how good he could make me feel as well as how bad. They seem to think that anyone who could treat me the way he does has to be all bad. I suppose in truth he is, but it is so hard to fight the constant messages of how special I am etc etc I know he uses it to try and get me back as his supply, but it is hard to forget. He did used to make me feel like the best woman on Earth, which is why I think it is so hard to reconcile the "nice" part with the unacceptable part. Very confused about it all really. I just go day by day and hope that before too long I can turn round and see that I have actually got through it!
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You're very welcome Cadbury. Good to hear from you. And as I am experiencing, there are good days and bad days. Today I am feeling particularly vulnerable and actually missing my ex-N; wondering how it is that I am utterly indispensable despite being 'the light and love of his life' at one time.
I'd like to think that our Ns are sincere with their compliments. Wish we didn't rely on them so heavily or become intoxicated, so to speak, by this overly-exaggerated validation. In a sense I feel as sick as my N sometimes. He's off chasing N supply while I am reliving the sweet-nothings that were really just overt manipulation. Perhaps it's not that black and white. For now, I am keeping things on the up and up so as not to lapse into believing anymore of the sham I once lived with this man.
We'll get through -- all of us. Some days are harder than others.
Best,
Bludie
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Today I am feeling particularly vulnerable and actually missing my ex-N; wondering how it is that I am utterly indispensable despite being 'the light and love of his life' at one time.
Check that last post -- I meant dispensable
Bludie
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and I feel that I will never have anyone again
That is what can create "magical thinking' which skews your perception that the reality of what you lived wasn't as bad or unhealthy as it really was. As hard as it might be, try to remember that there is no reason in the world why you wouldn't meet someone else.
After you take some time to heal and think through this last relationship to learn from it, you can meet someone else eventually, and be much happier.
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I am the guest that posted about my mother threatening to take my son....I just wanted to tell you that I was in a five year relationship that sounds very similiar to yours only thankfully, I never shared a child with this man.
Even after he knew I was "gone" he continued trying to terrorize me for some time..threatening to ruin my relationship with the man I was dating (now my husband of 11 years). It was one of those "I don't want you but I don't want anyone else to have you" kinds of scenarios. Eventually after calling the police numerous time to remove him from my front porch he found someone else to focus on and has left me alone now for almost 12 years.
I read something in an article that I wanted to share with you....it said something along the lines that the most dangerous time with these people is when they are being NICE to you...it said "Don't worry when they are nasty to you but if they start to be nice to you, run like hell....it only means they are setting you up for something REALLY NASTY!"
I have found that to be very, very true.
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That last post is quite scary as he is being very, very nice at the moment. HE says things like "we can be friends, we owe it to the baby" and in the next breath "you know I will never let you go don't you?". Still, being distant and strong at the moment and it is sort of going in.
Thank you for all the support!
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Cadbury:
You already know beyond a shadow of a doubt from past experience that the nice never lasts. Do not forget all the nice words and moments that turned sour before long, over & over again.
Nothing has changed--you are just at the sweet phase in a repetitive cycle. Phase two awaits.
And the "you know i'll never let you go" is a very controlling, threatening (do you realise it is threatening?) and scary comment. Nothing healthy or loving about it.
Plan to end it for good.
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Well, we have been talking, mostly about the baby as obviously we cannot ignore it. Today he came round to see me and whilst he was here he used my computer briefly to check his email. He came across a web page where the description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is listed. (I hadn't cleared my history - ahhhh!) He asked me about it and I said that I had been filling out personality disorder tests for him and I and that was one of the things that had come up. He said "Who for? It must have been you as that doesn't describe me at all." I just said that I'd only done it for a laugh and it probably wasn't accurate anyway. He then made me show him the personality disorder page and proceeded to fill it out for himself. I was there when he did it and believe me, self- delusional doesn't even come close! I watched in absolute shock as he blatently misunderstood questions, or answered them totally falsely. I couldn't believe that he was that far wrapped up in it all not to be able to answer honestly. Is this because he genuinely has a different reality to me? Is there any hope for N people to be cured if they really cannot see it in themselves?
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I can feel your incredulity!
Some people are so successful at lying to themselves (changing facts, for example, how much money is in their bank account) - that they pass lie detector tests 100%. They do believe their own lies.
If they don't realise this (and how could they?) and don't want to change, of course they will never change. There is no compulsion for change.
Maybe losing their job, losing a relationship, hitting 'rock bottom' might get them to look at themselves, but even then, some people blame the world instead of themselves... Take care Cadbury, Portia
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Each interaction with him is telling you more & more about who he really is inside.
You are able to see him now, with new eyes, which gives you a lot to think about.
Keep watching...