Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 21, 2004, 10:47:35 PM
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I am in a situation with my N mother that I am not sure how to handle. Until recently my mother split her verbal abuse between my step-father and me but they divorced in the spring and he has ceased contact with her. The result is that she has come after me with everything she has got and it's a lot!
I had no boundaries before...just always did what she said. When her behavior became so bizarre last holiday season I started doing research on NPB and began seeing a therapist who helped me begin to set some very minimal boundaries. It worked for the summer months. In August, things started going downhill again. I am an only child, my mother has no friends and no family (two sisters, one also NPB, the other is estranged from both my mother and N aunt).
I began to feel very uncomfortable with her behavior around my 8 year old son. Without my step-father to monitor her behavior, I couldn't feel sure that he was safe. About two weeks ago, she was in my home to pick up my son for an outing, she became angry because I did not have time to look at some photographs she had taken, she began to scream and curse at me and then to yell at my son to "get in the car" so I told her that he would be staying home and that she needed to leave. She tried to push me out the front door of my own home, cursing and screaming the entire time. My husband (who has never been involved in any sort of physical confrontation in his entire life) tried to restrain her from pushing me, she began to hit him and eventually he worked her to the front door and outside (her screaming and cursing at him to get "get HER (meaning me) under control."
Since that evening, we have not answered her numerous telephone calls, resulting in many vile, scathing messages left on our answering machine. I have also not responded to several emails she has sent along the same vien. She is threatening legal action to have my son removed from my home. She has told people in the community that I am crazy and that my son is in danger. She even called my therapist's office and left a message that "My daughter is in crisis. My grandson is in grave physical danger and I have been beaten and battered my daughter."
I feel that in ignoring her, which I do believe is the best option for my sanity, it is causing her behavior and threats to escalate. I know that it will get worse as the holidays approach. I don't know if I should respond to her in some way or continue to ignore her.
I am doing the best I can to remain calm, I have saved the ugly emails and all the ugly phone messages. Has anyone been harassed in this way by a parent? Can you think of any effective way to stop her harassment?
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Have you and your husband considered a restraining order? You and your family deserve protection from this disturbed individual. Have you been in contact with your stepfather at all? What is your therapist saying about this?
bunny
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Hi Bunny,
Thank you for replying. I've never been able to post to this board before although I read it frequently. We have considered a restraining order. I asked my therapist about it and he thought we should wait (this was last week) to see what she would do next.
He thought it was interesting that although she threatens action (I have powerful friends...I have started a campaign against you...) she has yet to contact anyone (children's services, the police, etc) who could do actually do anything. She has only contacted people who can only listen (my therapist, ministers at our church, friends and family). He said it was a very disturbing situation. He told me that if I knew for sure a person she had talked to, I should call that person and just touch base with them. That is the only reason I have not blocked her calls and saved myself hearing the ugly messages....I wanted to know who she had talked with. But now I realize that in her messages to me, she has left only vague references to people she has called, no specifics. I found out that she called the ministers because she left their names on a message to my step-father. I knew that she called the therapist because he read me the message.
I think she is just trying to make me afraid and embarrassed. This would have definitely worked in the past. I had convinced myself that I had a normal family and had she threatened to call family and friends, etc, a year ago it would have had me crying and pleading with her not to do so. I certainly had no confidence in myself and would never have believed that anyone would take my word over hers. Now her behavior has become so bizarre I just have to believe that other people know it whether they have said anything to me or not.
My husband is out of town, my son has been sick, I have been sick and I guess last night when I got the latest vile, sick message it got to me. I would like to stand up for myself for once in my life but my husband, family and therapist think that ignoring her is the best way to stand up for myself. My step-father has been very supportive but there is really nothing he can do other than offer support and sympathy and share what information he has been able to gather.
I don't know anyone else who has ever had a mother like this. If anyone has ever been in a similiar situation and could share experiences, I would be very grateful.
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Hi it's me again.
My mother isn't like this, but I believe that others have had similar experiences -- those whose mothers have a mental illness. Your mother sounds paranoid. She knows how far she can go; she isn't contacting any legal authorities but only people she believes will be "nice" to her. It's highly unusual for a therapist to talk to a patient's mother without the patient present, so I'm wondering whether your therapist has an idea for persuading her into medical treatment or something. How do you feel about his talking to her on the phone?
Maybe at some point you'll have enough hard evidence on tape and can block her phone calls so you don't have to hear any more of them. I think it's great that you've saved some vicious ones in case they're needed.
I'm really sorry your mom is so disturbed and not getting treated.
bunny
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Thank you Bunny. I had never given consideration to the fact the as well as the personality disorder my mother may also be mentally ill.
At age 40, having always been the "good girl", the "loving daughter", etc, etc, I never thought to find myself in this situation....defending myself against horrible accusations from my own mother. I realize now that things were not right when I was a child. My therapist said the denial was very deep seated. It was not until last year, as my mother and step-father began their divorce, that things became so strange and surreal that I finally accepted there was seriously something wrong and that it had been for as long as I could remember.
I know what was the start of this episode...the fact that for the first time in my life, my husband and I decided to spend Thanksgiving with another part of our family and not my mother. In 11 years of marriage we have never gone to be with my husband's family for a holiday, including minor holidays. This year we decided to be with my father's family...a strange mixture of children from three marriages who somehow have managed to form a loving, tight knit family unit. We wanted to be with them and when I told my mother that is what we would be doing for Thanksgiving you could literally see the phony mask drop from her face for just a few seconds and then immediately it returned and she said things like "I'm so glad. I have so many new friends now that I wouldn't have time to be with you anyway. I think you've made a good decision. You are always so stressed by trying to see them after Thanksgiving."
But she immediately began to call my step-father and tried to enlist him in an "intervention" to get me "under control" because she was not going to "tolerate being abandoned" by me at Thanksgiving "after all the sacrifices she had made" for me. I told my therapist that I was sure this would have happened 1 year ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago...at whatever point I finally made a decision on my own. He agreed.
He told me that he would call my mother if I wanted to do so. I asked if he thought there would be any benefit and he said no, that all he would do would listen to her. He asked if she had any family who could intervene and unfortunately, there is no one. He encouraged me, when I spoke to the ministers, to urge them to provide her any pastoral care that they could. Unfortunately, when I spoke to them, they were quite clear that they are not equipped to deal with something of this magnitude.
I am alone in this...as far as being the only family who cares about her. Right now, I am so angry with her that I cannot find any compassion. I just want her to leave us alone. I have a happy life. I love my husband, my son is a happy, smart and confident little boy. I know in many ways the poor parenting I received only strengthened my resolve to be the best parent I could be. My heart soars when I see my son stand in front of a group and make some sort of presentation or run with confidence on to an athletic field.....knowing that as a child I would have never, ever been able to do such things and still have difficulty as an adult. But still, I am horrified and feel more betrayed than ever before by her threats to take him from me and to convince others that I am abusing him. That is a line I never really believed she would cross.
I am only comforted by the fact that I know she really does not want him. She would never spend her money on attorney's fees (she is very selfish with money although extravagant with herself) and she would never want the actual responsibility of getting him to school, etc. I do think though, that if she could get him removed from my home and in to foster care, she wouldn't think twice about it. After all...it's not about my son, it's about punishing me for my disobedience.
Thank you for listening.
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Hi, I was touched by your posts.
Your mother can’t take your son from you. People need proof of abuse before children are removed from their parents and even then, children don’t necessarily go and stay with their grandparents. It’s not going to happen to you and your son. Your mother is talking rubbish and no-one is going to listen. She’s full of empty threats. Good for you for keeping that evidence, just in case she starts to really lose it and tells lies about you to someone in authority. Make sure all the adults in your family know the score all the time. Don’t keep any secrets to yourself for fear of not being caring or dutiful. Your first priority is you and your family. She’s way down the list.
You’re a great mother. Listening to you talk about your son, it’s obvious you love him and put him first. And he sounds great too! You’ve broken the abuse cycle and I think that’s fantastic.
It’s probably not your ‘disobedience’ that’s the worse thing to her, it’s envy. She’s envious of you because she wants the love you have with your son. And she can’t ‘have’ it. I’m sorry, but sometimes it really is that basic and horrific. Take lots of care of yourself, P
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A personality disorder is a mental illness. And there is a PD called "paranoid personality disorder." Of course I don't know what your mother's problem is, but she clearly has one. Part of the issue here is that your mother hasn't been evaluated and diagnosed by a medical professional. It seems the ministers she's talked to consider her disturbed. And you would find it easier to deal with her if she were under medical supervision and had a diagnosis. But since she isn't in treatment and isn't seeking treatment, you may have to protect yourself and your family. She may end up in the ER for some reason, and get psychiatrically evaluated. That sometimes happens. It's not in your power to control her, she needs a team of doctors at this point.
Oh - and she has zero power to take away your son. That isn't going to happen at all. She's clearly a mental case and no one is going to think your son is endangered. There'd have to be a big investigation first anyway and even that won't happen.
bunny
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My mother will definitely not seek treatment. She is convinced that the rest of us are crazy, in particular me. She says my husband is afraid of me and won't stand up to me. She said my step-father was crazy but now that she thinks she needs him to prove her case against me, she doesn't think he's crazy anymore. Before she and my step-father decided to divorce, they attempted joint therapy. What ensued was nightmarish. First, after my step-father broke down and faced some things that happened to him in his childhood and my mother then used those things to try to blackmail him (expose his secrets, etc).
So my step-father refused to see the therapist jointly anymore but agreed for the two of them to continue to see the therapist separately. At that point, my mother began to attack the therapist. She went to her sessions armed with the latest Oprah or Dr. Phil book, informed the therapist that she was not properly treating my step-father, etc, etc. Eventually, the therapist refused to see my mother any more although she continued to treat my step-father. My mother then dismissed her as a quack. (Bear in mind, a few weeks before she had been recommending this therapist right and left to anyone she could think of.)
So, you are quite right that she has not been properly diagnosed, although my therapist feels she is NPB, having read many of her emails to me. Last November, in sheer desperation, I thought to myself I have heard about detachment in dealing with alcoholics and I think that is what I need to do. So I started doing web searches for detachment, thinking it would lead me to sites about dealing with alcoholics (which she is not) but instead I kept finding links to sites dealing with personality disorders.
When I found the list of nine characteristics of NPB I was completely shocked. My mother exhibits them all! I believe the standard is that there must be 5 of 9 traits present. I had not told my husband at all what I was doing...just left that list of traits on the screen and asked him to read it. I didn't tell him I was thinking about my mom...just said "read this". He read it and looked at me and said "What do you we do if your Mom has all nine?"
I feel sure she suffers from this but I am wondering if that is all she suffers from. Who would know? She is a very attractive woman, very young looking for her age. She can be quite charming although that is beginning to fade as she no longer monitors herself around anyone. (Puts her nose within an inch of your nose if she is talking face to face with you...even with strangers, gives way to much information about her sex life to even casual acquaintances, wears very inappropriate clothing, she never did these things before.) She has had rounds of plastic surgery and revels in the fact that younger men are attracted to her. Last Christmas, she told her best friend this about me "She is just jealous of me because I am so much prettier than her and always have been and she knows her husband is attracted to me." That friend no longer has contact with her because once I retreated and my step-father retreated she went after her friend and began to abuse her (her only close friend for the past 15 or so years.)
I felt like I was living in some sort of twilight zone until I found the information on the disorder. And though I think I understand why she does what she does now I still really don't know how to deal with her full scale assault on me. And it still hurts even though I know she is sick. I know that I will never be able to forgive her for threatening to take my son.
Thank you and P for your kind words and for listening to me. With my husband out of town I was feeling a bit isolated and this has helped me to relieve some of the stress.
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Hi guest,
I can feel for you. I have been through Nparents threatening to take away my kids. I still do not trust that my Nparents are not up to something at this momnet, but they have threatened so much, I finally chalk it up to threats.
I have a wonderful family, 3 beautiful kids, a loving H and my Nparents think we are the most terrible people in the world simply because we will not GIVE them our kids.
There is envy going on to the extreme. They did take my sister's child and adopted her with all kinds of threats. They are evil. My Ndad threatened to have me thrown in jail because I used curse words when we last spoke.
It's all about control. As long as they can threaten and think they are getting to you - they are in control in their minds. I stopped listening to my Nparents threats. I proved I was no longer afraid of them so they started using my oldest son - writing letters full of lies. We will intercept the letters from now on.
I don't call it mental as much as evil. My Nparents know exactly what they are doing - they just think it's ok because it's what they want - I am their child and they can still tell me what to do. They are livid now that I do not respond to that but if we ever met face-to-face, we would probably have a similar experience to yours.
Be strong - if she starts to act on the threats get the restraining order. But that is what my Nparents want - so they can tell all their friends how terrible we are to keep them away from the grandkids. They have not visited in over 8 years. But they need a good excuse and will not reveal that it's because they do not want to visit. They need to blame me.
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Hi Ellie,
Yes, that is what I hear over and over again......"don't think that you can withhold my grandson from because of your own problems."
When I spoke to the first minister, she would not (understandably) tell me exactly what my mother said. Actually, I didn't even ask. I told her that I just wanted to make myself available if she had any questions or concerns (specifically because my husband and I are in charge of several youth programs at our church). Eventually she said "I hope that you will be able to find some way for your mother to see your son." I gave no details but told her that although my husband and I had done everything in our power to preserve that relationship it was no longer safe and we could not allow her to see him.
I told her that my mother had made some terrible accusations regarding myself and my husband and that if we needed to step down from our positions with the children at the church in order to save the church from being concerned about those children's safety with us, that we would do so. She was absolutely horrified and said "I had no idea you were so far from family mediation. I did not understand what a horrible situation you are in." She told me there were no concerns from our church family.
At any rate, as I write this, yet another message is coming in on the answering machine. More threats....just heard "you are horrible parents and horrible people!"
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Hi guest - we must have the same mother! Actually my Nmom will not call anymore.
Sounds like its time to really smack her around some. I think I would change my recording to "we're not available so leave a message, unless this is my crazy mother. If you are my crazy mother, we don't want to her your carzy rantings. Go tell someone who cares. Have a good day."
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I think your mother is very seriously disturbed. I'm surprised that the original couples therapist refused to keep seeing her. If a therapist rejects mentally ill patients, what is the point of being a therapist? I don't get it. Have you ever phoned that therapist to tell her what's going on now? Is your stepfather still seeing this therapist?
bunny
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Hi Bonnie,
I never called the therapist because I felt sure she would not discuss anything with me. I don't know for sure why the therapist terminated the visits. I do know that at the time my mother's behavior was still fairly controlled in public. Her public persona did not begin to deteriorate until more recently. I believe that my mother attempted to manipulate the therapist and became very angry and abusive with the therapist when the therapist did not shut up and do what my mother told her she should do...which was tell my step-father he was wrong and their marital problems were all his fault. It was for marital counseling that they were originally seeing the therapist.....perhaps when they decided to divorce the therapist saw no further use in dealing with my mother although she continued treating my step-father. I just don't know.
I realize it's a very complicated situation. I have decided to uncomplicate it for myself. I am going to block my mother's calls and not do anything else until I am actually contacted by someone of authority or by her attorney. She left a message for my step-father tonight that she had contacted an attorney who was going to force us in to mediation so that she can see my son. She left a similiar message for me only she did not mention an attorney...she said she was arranging a mediation with members of our church. I don't believe any of it. I guess it could be true but I will wait to hear from the attorney and then I will hire an attorney of my own and produce her caustic emails and phone messages.
I think I mentioned that I have been sick and my son has also been sick. Today he did go to school but I found myself unable to accomplish anything except the most simple tasks and then only for a few minutes at a time. I spent a great deal of time "resting" which I recognize now as signs that I am becoming depressed again. I don't want to end up that way again and I think it is because of the sickening phone messages. So to take care of myself I need to stop listening to them.
Thanks again for listening. It has been a big help to me.
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Guest,
The stress you are under can hinder your health. You desperately need to try some form of seperation from her harsh and cruel thrashings. She is fighting to keep you under her control. I've seen my Nparents do things like this. They keep it up for a while as they think they are getting to you. But when they reach a point that they see they are not accomplishing anything anymore, they let up - at least for a period of time. I guess it could be a pit stop for refueling - at that time they refuel on another supply til they are strong enough to start at you again. Ns have been compared to vampires for a good reason. They need you for their survival supply. Cutting off the supply will force them to someone else.
Cut her off and give yourself a break to get healthy and stronger again. Good luck. Get well soon. :)
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Hi again. Some of what you describe sounds like my mother too. Do you need to hear this? - I’m sorry that your mother is unable to love you. You deserve to be loved as much as anyone. Maybe part of being tired is feeling this in your bones?
If this wasn’t your mother, but say someone who was stalking you, someone you’d worked with, would you have told the Police by now? I might have. Just so that they are aware of the situation, should I need to call them. I’m not saying you should! But I want to say, be ready without hesitation to call them. Just because it’s your mother doesn’t mean she’s outside the law.
Good for you for blocking her calls. Take care, P
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Hi Portia,
Thank you. Actually, it's somehow comforting to know that I am not the only one with a mother like this. That sounds kind of sick because I wouldn't wish this treatment on anyone.
I would not hesitate to call the police on my mother. I feel no loyalty to her whatsoever anymore. I knew she was vicious but in the past, I just got the silent treatment. As a child and young person that was devastating to me and I would have done anything to earn back her "affection". But now that I know more and I know how sick that was making me (chronic near constant low levels of anxiety that were escalating to panic attacks and severe bouts of depression), I realized I had to set some boundaries. These attacks on me are new behavior because I never stood up for myself before.
I feel like I am being crushed or snuffed out......she really does want to destroy me. It is taking every ounce of energy I can summon just to make it through the day.
Thank you for your concern.
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I never called the therapist because I felt sure she would not discuss anything with me.
Maybe your therapist could talk to this therapist.
I believe that my mother attempted to manipulate the therapist and became very angry and abusive with the therapist when the therapist did not shut up and do what my mother told her she should do...which was tell my step-father he was wrong and their marital problems were all his fault. It was for marital counseling that they were originally seeing the therapist.....perhaps when they decided to divorce the therapist saw no further use in dealing with my mother although she continued treating my step-father. I just don't know.
I'm not upset with you for not knowing what happened but I'm a bit frustrated with this therapist. They aren't supposed to "fire" patients who get angry and abusive with them. Your mother was actually in a therapist's office and the opportunity to help her was squandered. *sigh*
Good for you for blocking her calls!! Who needs them. You have enough of them recorded already. Oh, maybe she called an attorney but I doubt any fees passed hands and the attorney probably told her to go away. They talk to lots of nutcases in their line of work.
bunny
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Hello again,
I just returned home from our Thanksgiving trip and did indeed find a letter from an attorney waiting for me. It was sort of a strange letter....started off with "As a lawyer, there is nothing I can do to resolve the issues between you and your mother. I might suggest counseling to sort through the issues with a minister or professional counselor." Then it goes on to tell the long story of his divorce and how he and his wife took the high road for the benefit of their children and urges me to do the same.
At any rate, I am meeting with an attorney of my own in the morning. I hope with the voice mails and emails I have, it will be enough to get a restraining order. I am hoping that will send a message to my mother that I will not tolerate this any longer.
I have been able to block her calls on my home phone but not on my cell phone (it's a work cell phone so I can't change it). Apparently now she has decided that I am an alcoholic and using drugs. Even in my darkest depressions I have never used drugs and am only a social drinker. Of course, I know this and everyone around me knows this but it still is disturbing to hear her say these things to me in her messages.
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I guess your mother found a loony attorney to write a nutty letter. Obviously he knows there are no legal grounds for her to do anything. Good luck with your attorney and let us know how it goes.
bunny
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Although my N-father has been dead for nearly 5 years, this thread reminds me of some of his machinations from long ago when he felt threatened or wasn't getting his way. It's amazing the lengths they'll go to in order to get our attention or manipulate.
From my recent experience with my ex-N-fiance, I can tell you that threats abounded for many weeks in the aftermath of our breakup. I eventually changed the locks, got an unlisted phone number, blocked his e-mails, filed for a no contact order, and resolved to call the police if he showed up at my door. This was very difficult to do considering that I still loved him and was grieving the loss of our relationship.
He used the same demeaning and libelous tactics as your mother -- telling neighbors and friends that I was crazy and disturbed. He even tried phoning my boss who refused to talk to him. This has finally stopped for now because I think he's either chasing or has become involved with his latest N-supply-victim.
Though it was difficult -- and I second-guessed myself as to the 'surreal' qualities of where my life had gone -- I completely cut contact. I erased his last few phone messages on my old number without ever listening to them. Feeble as it sounds, this was a turning point because I recognized that he was losing his hold over me and I was taking back my life.
I feel for you and agree with Bunny. Your mother sounds extremely disturbed. Completely cutting contact -- perhaps even changing your phone number -- might give you a break so you don't spiral down into depression.
As for helping your mother get help, I don't know. It sounds as if her denial is strong. You could spend months trying to break through only to realize she's manipulating. Who knows what the cost would be to your sanity and self esteem?
As with the other posters above, I urge you to be gentle with yourself and take care of YOU.
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Thanks so much Bunny and Bludie! I appreciate your posts very much. I only got to give some details to the attorney today. She is supposed to call back tomorrow so that we can form a strategy.
I feel so much stronger now! I have not really done anything but somehow just actually making the phone call to the attorney and blocking my mother's calls has made me feel like I am doing something and not just sitting around being victimized and feeling sorry for myself.
I had a good conversation today with the woman who was my mother's best friend for 20 something years....until Mom kicked her to the curb last year with a vengeance because her friend expressed concern for her and thought she needed some help and told her so. I told her she didn't have to talk to me if she didn't want but she did. She doesn't want to have any contact with my mother but she said if she needed to give a deposition as someone from outside my family but someone who has known my mother well and for a long time that she would. She said if she could do that to try to get help for my mother or to help protect my son and family she would because she loves us.
It made me feel so much better. I asked for something that I needed and someone responded! That hasn't happened for me very often (apart from my husband. )
Thanks again for your posts. It gives me hope that my family will emerge from this stronger and happier AND healthier.
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Hello again, how wonderful to have someone share your reality in this way about your mother. I’m glad for you that this lady talked with you and that she is someone outside the family. It must make so much difference to have that external validation, from someone who knows you. Wow!
And “just” making that phone call and blocking her calls? Some people would see those actions as very tough to do. Give yourself some well-deserved praise for your thinking and actions. In fact, how about a real treat as well? :) Best wishes, Portia
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They aren't supposed to "fire" patients who get angry and abusive with them. Your mother was actually in a therapist's office and the opportunity to help her was squandered. *sigh*
I used to work for a group of therapists, all licensed, and all very reputable. I have seen them occasionally "fire" a client. Rather than doing so because the client became angry and abusive, it's usually because the client will not do any of the work needed in therapy. The opportunity to help her wasn't really there, I'm sure. NPD is one of the toughest disorders to treat, because you can't treat people who don't think they have a problem. At some point, the therapist must make a decision, if the client is unable to make any progress at all. They're otherwise wasting time and money. They'll sometimes make a referral to a therapist who might be better equipped to deal with whatever problem they have. But in my years of dealing with NPD people, I've seen none of them make any progress at all in their disorder. Some will go to therapy because for that hour, it's all about them, and they get to complain about how others treat them. But even that's somewhat rare. If they're in therapy, it's usually not because of the NPD.
I also suffer from being raised by an N-mother. She's in her 80s now, and has become more childlike in her ways of manipulation. It's quite pathetic, really, and she's frustrated because two of her three children will not feed her narcissism anymore. (We developed the backbone she worked so hard to deny us over the years.)
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Hi Glennis,
Thanks for your post. Again, I am really not sure what happened with the therapist. I do know that my mother became disgusted because the therapist would not "blame" everything on my step-father and condemned the therapist for not doing what she said. (My mother told me this herself). It may even be possible that my mother just quit going.....my step-father told me that the therapist would not see her anymore. I don't know if she suggested that someone else could be of more help.
Can I ask how you managed to maintain contact with your mother and not feed her supply? I have not been able to find any way of doing that so I am having to resort to no contact at all. I literally can't open my mouth to my mother without enraging her. She has become so erratic you can't even AGREE with her anymore without her becoming angry.
She would toy with my boundaries (and I have to say...they were pretty pathetic little boundaries)...agreeing to them but then violating them. For example, I might ask that she give my son only two gifts for Christmas) and she would agree..."oh yes, you are so right. We should put the emphasis on being together...not gifts, etc". But then she would arrive on Christmas with armloads of gifts. Often, she would ask what my husband and I were going to give him and then she would buy the same thing and made sure he opened her's first....leaving me with no "special" gift to give him. I learned my lesson on that issue pretty quickly.
Some of the most frustrating things were simple, like setting a boundary for the length of time for a phone call. She might call, I would say I had 10 minutes to talk. After 10 minutes (of listening...not talking) I would remind her that I needed to go...she would continue to talk.....and on and on....until finally the irritation would show in my tone of voice. And then she would explode..."YOU are not the only busy one....I am busy too! Do you think you are the only one with a job? You only think of yourself, etc, etc."
Some things were absolutely ridiculous....like insisting that I try on her old clothes. I am not anywhere close to her in size, shape or height. Her clothes would never fit me. But if I tried to say, for instance, "Thank you for the generous offer. It's a beautiful outfit but you are so much smaller than me, I know it would never fit me" she would become furious! (Even trying to play on her need to weigh less than me didn't work.) For years I was bone rail thin (pure anxiety...my stomach was so upset I couldn't eat much of anything at all)...she had a normal figure but thought she was fat and I know she despised me for being smaller than her.
Nothing was ever easy with her. No compromises would EVER be made....no matter how inconsequential the issue. If I asked for anything for myself, my husband or my son, I was selfish, overly-sensitive, irrational, crazy, drunk, demanding, etc.
My therapist said she is the definition of the saying "You give an inch, they take a mile" and truer words have never been spoken.
I wonder how you have been able to achieve it? I admire that greatly.
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May I ask why you would WANT to maintain any kind of relationship with her? She seems dangerously erratic.
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Guest,
I guess I was not clear in my thoughts....I don't want anything to do with my mother. I hope the legal system does not force me to have to deal with her (she's using my son as an excuse). But I do find it amazing that anyone can find a way to deal with someone like this and I admire that. It must require tremendous self control.
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Can I ask how you managed to maintain contact with your mother and not feed her supply?
I keep as little contact with her as possible. She's never threatened me with taking my kids. (She wouldn't have. She doesn't particularly like kids. They're too needy and don't feed her narcissism.) If she had I would have cut all contact with her. I have little time and patience for games like that.
And that's the key. How much will I take? Not much at all, and she's come to realize that. Mother is a childish, angry, demanding, energy-sucking 85-year-old with selective memory. I'm in my early 50s, and with my job and other activities (I'm the bass-player of two rock bands), I just don't have the time or energy to play her games. Oh, she tries to "guilt" me, but that trick hasn't worked in years. I cannot feel guilt because she's unhappy. That's her problem.
As I grew up, she made sure I never developed a backbone, and got pretty abusive, verbally and emotionally when she didn't get her way, so she almost always did. She believed just because she raised us, she can treat us however she wants. It wasn't until I was in my 30s before I actually got that backbone. I realized she's just like a spoiled, willful child, and began to act accordingly. I actually practiced things to say to her when she pulls her crap, until it came easily and readily. She doesn't really know how to deal with someone who stands up for herself, so she pretty much avoids me too.
Also, of the three of us kids, I was the lucky one. I was adopted, and my younger brothers were not. Mother kept the knowledge of my adoption from me, but I discovered it myself at age 27, and began a search. One of the many things going through my mind at the time was being grateful I was NOT born to her. And even before I found my wonderful birthmother, I was able to distance myself from N-Mother emotionally. (My adoptive father was a saint, and I loved him dearly. He dealt with her by becoming a work-a-holic.)
It's just that I have come to a point where I won't deal with toxic people for long. I call their bluff. I let them take the natural consequences of their behavior. (You treat me like crap, I won't be around.) Mother's used to everyone dancing on eggs around her. I will not. And since guilt, her only tool left to her, doesn't work on me anymore, she doesn't know how to deal with me.
It's a joy to watch, really. :lol:
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Glennis,
Thank you so much! Unfortunately, I guess that won't work for me (at least for now). I was trying to limit contact and so she kept in contact through my son but I could tell she was just using him as an excuse to get in my house and get in my face and try to make me angry so she could tell everyone how mean and crazy I am. For one thing, for the first 7 years of my son's life she had not ONCE picked him up or dropped him off at my house. My husband or I always had to take him to her house. All of sudden she insists that she pick him up and drop him off.
And my situation is just as you said....my mother really doesn't want my son, she actually really doesn't even enjoy taking him out for an evening but she knows that is my soft spot. She tried to interfere in my marriage and that didn't work, my husband and I are both self-employed so she can't intefere at work, she tried to turn people at our church against us and that didn't work. She tried calling my friends and they blew her off. Same thing with our family. Even one of the attorneys she tried to contacted told me she sounded "histrionic". I can picture her sitting alone at her house thinking up her next strategy. I am an only child so there is no one else to take it out on.
It's funny now...when she does manage to get someone on the phone she tells them "I don't know what she's saying about me but whatever it is, it's a lie!"
Another funny thing....a male friend of ours accidently called her house instead of mine. He said my name in a questioning manner, she said no, this is XXX, he said sorry, wrong number. He figured out what he did and told us. But I have had several emails and voice mails for her saying that an angry and enraged man called her house looking for me...she has "figured out who it is" and we had better call her because we are in SERIOUS trouble and only she can help us.
For some reason today, I was able to laugh about the situation and didn't feel so tired and sad. I am grateful for that. And thanks for your post and wow, I am so impressed with you!!!
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I'm no expert, but it sounds like your mother has got a cocktail of other things wrong with her along with being an N
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There are varying degrees of NPD, and her mother sounds like she's got a severe case of it.
Whatever's going on, it sounds like this woman is indeed NPD. The following quote is sooo typical:
And then she would explode..."YOU are not the only busy one....I am busy too! Do you think you are the only one with a job? You only think of yourself, etc, etc."
She's apparently not too busy to harrass her own daughter. One of the things my N-mother frequently says is "You only think of yourself," or "You couldn't be bothered...blah, blah, blah." If that were true, I would have cut off all contact with her years ago.
To the above quote, I would have said, "Well, if you're so busy, why are you wasting time bothering me? Get on with it, and let me get on with what I need to do."
To my mother's refrain that I only think of myself, I just smile smugly and reply that SOMEONE's got to, and it's about time. It sends her in a tizzy, because she isn't getting the reaction she wants at all. :lol: And she doesn't know how to react. I don't care if she thinks I'm selfish. Where she's concerned, I am. She made me that way, and that's the natural consequence of her behavior.
I just try to think of what I would do with a spoiled child. I don't expect to change her, but I do expect to protect my interests.
But with someone as extreme as Guest's mother, I'd just cut contact, get a restraining order and do whatever else is needed for her to get the picture that her behavior is NOT okay by anyone's standards, and will no longer be tolerated.
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Oh, and I forgot to write...
Often, she would ask what my husband and I were going to give him and then she would buy the same thing and made sure he opened her's first....leaving me with no "special" gift to give him. I learned my lesson on that issue pretty quickly.
My mother would do this. One year my sister-in-law bought our stepfather a pair of slippers for Christmas. After seeing them, Mother went out and bought the very same pair. This pattern continued until we started lying about what we're buying him, so she couldn't do that.
Mother is very tricky, but I'm trickier, from long years of dealing with her. She calls me "secretive." Of course I am! Being open and honest with her has never been a good thing. If I point that out to her, she says, "Well, I don't know what you mean."
One question, though. Does she still have contact with your son? If so, you may want to think about what her toxicity could be doing to him.
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Hi Glennis,
We cut off contact with her completely about 3 weeks ago (including with my son). It became clear that he was not safe alone with her and because of her anger towards me and my husband, we could not longer go along to supervise. That is what started this recent campaign of terror against us....threats to report us as unfit, a phone campaign to family, friends and ministers at church that I am crazy, an alcoholic, drug addict, etc, etc which thankfully, no one believed. She went so far as to have an attorney write a letter to us on her behalf asking for mediation so that she can see my son.
We have been trying to find our own attorney which has been difficult...our first choice is unavailable and she referred us to someone who has been out of the office all week. We hope to hear from him on Monday. We have about 45 minutes of absolutely VILE, threatening and clearly unbalanced (screaming, cursing, etc) voice messages from her and also a stack of similiar emails.
Last week, she came to my house (she had been limiting herself to calling and emailing but we have blocked her calls on our home phone) and I spoke to her through the door and told her to leave or I would call the police. (She tried to push and shove me out the door of my own home the last time we let her in the house....that was when we cut contact completely). We have not had any contact from her since then until today, I received an email.
I have had several people in the community tell me, just acquaintances really, that her public behavior is becoming more and more bizarre and disturbing. Several people have asked me if she has a drug problem. In each and every case, the person gently expressed concern for her and she immediately cut contact with them.
I have to say that I am so glad that her public persona is deteriorating. Before, it was so hidden and only displayed to immediate family, that no one would believe us when we tried to tell them. We got a lot of "lectures" from people about how we just needed to get along, etc.
I don't know where the legal system will take us but the attorneys I have spoke to tell me that with the voice mails, etc, it would be very unusual for a judge to force visitation with my son. That is my daily prayer now. The attorney will be a huge drain on our limited financial resources (starting two new businesses is scary on it's own) but we will do whatever we need to do to protect my son and ourselves.
Just coming here to post has helped me so much. Not many people I know have ever experienced anything like this and I am sure it seems a bit unreal to them.
Thanks again! I appreciate so much everyone's posts and comments.
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Hi, i'm new to your board and the N personality.
I left home when I was 18 because I didn't get along with my mother.
2yrs later I got married. I have been married now 26 yrs this month.
I have been reading about difficult mothers and mine has a personality disorder according to my sisters. I was pushed out of the house 2weeks after my 18th birthday. I have spoken very little to my mother over the 26 years. sad that I don't have the support of a mother but she was so toxic to me I made a decision not to have her in my life. My 3 sisters say she does have problems but they like the financial help and put up with what ever she dishes out.
So I escape this mother problem but have been with my husband who is an N personality.
I guess he is not as severe as some but just the same he comes out of no where with lies, he can be so charming then sets my 12 yr old and myself up for feelings we suddenly have made him feel like he needs to move away.
A few weeks ago I went to Dallas (I live in CA) for a job interview and he got so offended he said he wanted a cotton swab from my daughter's month for DNA testing.
I had her stay with a friend after he's telling her he was not her father. She was so destroyed.
The more I have learned in just the last week I have been able to see how to look for these signs. my husband has been ACTING like he is engageing with the family better.I have not been giving him his N supply, he must be getting worried I have learned something I didn't know before.
before this last week before I started reading the message boards I found a Doctors report that was done from a Workerscomp evaluation saying his was Narsistic. I didn't know what it really meant only he was selfish. It wasn't until I looked further on the message board did I discover I have jumped into a bigger fire than the one I left from.
I never wanted to run from my problems and willing to stay and take responsiblity for my bad choice. My Husband is physicaly hurt and I wouldn't strand him when he can't work. But now I can move on and accept that he has mental issuies too. I don't have to keep forgiving him thinking he is on alot of medicine and just angry at his situation.
I undertand he uses my kindness but things are changing and I may leave him in California if he can't get a grip.
Thanks for all those that have shared it has changed me.
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Hello all,
Just thought I would share that I have talked to three attorney's now who all say the same thing....my mother has no grounds for visitation with my son unless I approve. They all say the worst she can do is report us to Children's Protective Services. The attorney I spoke with today says he works with that agency a lot and that frankly, they are overworked with legit cases and do not waste much time on crazy people. Although of course, they would have to investigate, he feels it would quickly be put to rest.
He said to continue to ignore her...he knows the attorney that sent us the letter on her behalf. He says that he believes the man was well-intentioned, having only one side of the story. At this point, he does not feel we need to do anything other than to continue to ignore her, call the police if she shows up again and that he will go with us to seek an emergency protective order should she threaten violence or if we feel threatened (like if she repeatedly shows up at the house). He says we can do that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
He does say I have a case against her for slander and defamation of character and he would be glad to represent us if we choose to pursue that but as no one has paid any attention to her, I don't feel like I want to do that at this point.
She has stopped calling...well, she called once today. She sounded terrible and said she had been sick (in a message, I do not answer her calls) and said she thinks she is going to die but she knows I do not care about that and don't think I am going to get one cent of her money when she does die. (Such a laugh....I'm sure it's all been spent on men and plastic surgery). "You are the most pathetic person I have ever known....sitting in church on Sunday and pretending to be a Christian. The truth will be known...I will go to my death bed telling people the truth about you. You can't ignore me forever. I won't go away. Everyone knows what a liar you are."
Her biggest fear seems to be getting old......anyone else experience this with N females in particular? She has been doing anything she can to look and feel younger.
At any rate, thank you for listening to me through some of my darkest days. I feel much stronger and am focusing on making this a happy holiday season for my son. I was actually able to laugh at her message today.
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Hi and sorry you have a mother who wants so much attention from you and wants to take what you love (your Kids) from you.
I have little to do with my mother but I have sisters who get money from her so they put up with her.
I left home at 18 and maybe it was the best thing not to let her poision in my life. The way she gets back at me is to inject her poision into my sisters and there kids.
They will give me the silent treatment or just be cold to me and my family if she comes to visit them.
I have seen her maybe 10 times in 26 years sometimes my sisters tell me she will be in town so I will come by and leave soon after. I will say I love you and she is silent.
my aunt (her younger sister )let me know my mother was very mean to her too.
She tells me when I was growing up she could see my mother treated me mean but she was afraid to get involved.
My aunt thought she was helping so, she being the devils advocate tried to get us all to talk about how we all had hurt feelings.
We all said our peace but she was not hearing anything I had to say. A few days later I got a letter in the mail saying the same old thing, nothing has changed.
how could you have so little to do with someone but still they hold onto what ever it is, so they can stay mean to you forever.
I don't know if my mother is an N, but I married an N and figure I had good training from her on how I deal with my Husband.
I just don't know why her toxic posion is not worth my time but I take it from my husband.
I'm trying to sort this all out and if I can understand my childhood a little better maybe someday I can break free of other pains in my life.
I have studied Palm reading and know I have a very strong sence of wright, wrong,guilt and what happens in my enviroment. I consider myself a very nice and patient person wanting to do the right thing but sometimes maybe this is not always the Best thing. Maybe the enviroment says People have dreams and hopes and should stay married for the kids and my guilt overrides any sence I should have to say otherwise.
Your mother may need help but we all know she will never say it is her.
She will not likley leave you alone until someone else comes in her life
to focus on.
I think I might take the lawsuit up for slander so maybe she will have a reason to back down from her lawsuit.
She may not let her lawsuit go because she thinks she is right and wants control over you.
Ns are big on lies and tell them over and over until everyone believes them. you're dealing with your child and it may give strength to the authorities your belief she has Issuies. ( you can always drop the lawsuit)
Good Luck
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Just thought I would share that I have talked to three attorney's now who all say the same thing....my mother has no grounds for visitation with my son unless I approve.
I'm glad you heard it from attorneys. There used to be some dumb idea of "grandparents right to visitation" but that's been dropped. Obviously parents should have final authority over who gets access to their children.
he will go with us to seek an emergency protective order should she threaten violence or if we feel threatened (like if she repeatedly shows up at the house). He says we can do that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
GOOD.
She has stopped calling...well, she called once today. She sounded terrible and said she had been sick (in a message, I do not answer her calls) and said she thinks she is going to die but she knows I do not care about that and don't think I am going to get one cent of her money when she does die. (Such a laugh....I'm sure it's all been spent on men and plastic surgery). "You are the most pathetic person I have ever known....sitting in church on Sunday and pretending to be a Christian. The truth will be known...I will go to my death bed telling people the truth about you. You can't ignore me forever. I won't go away. Everyone knows what a liar you are."
She stopped calling except for this doozy of a phone call? This woman is a total fruitcake. She's paranoid, delusional, etc. All this stuff about "the truth" is a signal of paranoia. Anyone in law enforcement, social services, etc., will be onto her immediately. They've heard this type of ranting so many times.
Keep us posted because I don't think she's going away quite yet.
bunny
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Hi,
I think you should consider going to the police and filing a report. Have a history of her threats and behavior recorded. Any form of protection for you is important.
I had to call the police on my Nfather this past summer after my son's car was vandalized. We couldn't prove that he did it, but HIGHLY suspected him. It was the hardest thing I had to do, but ultimately was the best decision. It scared him so much, that we haven't had any problems since. I know that in his wildest dreams, he never would thought that I would have enough nerve to do that to him.
It's very important to protect you and your family. My Nparents are getting nuttier and scarier as they've gotten older-early 70's. They see the end coming and have started spiraling downward at a faster pace. Death is something they can't control.
I've been estranged from my parents for almost 3 years. At first, you have to go through all the stages of grief and work through your anger and bitterness and just disbelief of the whole situation. It gets easier, but never completely goes away. In my situation, I felt either it was them or me, and I chose me. I know that they are NOT NORMAL and somehow that makes it easier for me to forgive them. I felt in order for me to have happiness in my life, I had to do that. It's a very difficult process, but basically only just a decision.
I wish you strength, wisdom and courage. This place has been so helpful to me. Good luck. Dinny
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Hi Bunny,
I'm not sure I have figured out how to use the quote feature. Maybe this will work!
She stopped calling except for this doozy of a phone call?
Sounds silly....but we are down from about 10 messages per day to one this week. Progress, I think!
I am so thankful to have found this board. NO ONE else could possibly understand.
Off to the therapist now......
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Hello everyone,
My post regarding my conversation with my aunt disappeared after the hacking but apparently she had a conversation with my mother about her behavior (good for her! I didn't think she would). She must have also encouraged her to find a therapist.
First I got copies of several old emails (back from the summer months when my mother was behaving herself somewhat) that were "nice" to me....she had forwarded them to my aunt. I guess to prove I am lying. On the copies she sent to me, she included notes like "Did you happen to mention this to your aunt when you LYING to her??? I didn't think so." Of course, those were all old emails so I am not sure what her point was.
Then I got a couple of phone messages (again on my cell phone...can't block her from that one) and said she had seen a therapist. It could have only been one visit because it was just a day or two after I talked to my aunt. My mother said the therapist had figured it all out....what MY problems are (no mention of hers)....rattled on about "displaced anger" and said she forgave me for all the ugly things I had done and all the lies I had told. In subsequent messages, she said she is again seeking mediation and doesn't know if she would "push it far enough to go to court" but she is "not going to go away." She said "This whole mess is of your making. I have seen you at your worst. You are the only one who can fix this...with my help of course."
I am just trying to let this stuff roll off but I do have to say, as the holidays approach rapidly, and I think of her alone for the first time in her life, I am fearful of some sort of ugly confrontation. My husband really wants to stay home for Christmas (I was ready to pack up and head to a relatives far away) and I want to accomodate him because he has been so supportive of me through this whole mess. But I am becoming very uneasy and yes, I would say, fearful.
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<<<On the copies she sent to me, she included notes like "Did you happen to mention this to your aunt when you LYING to her??? I didn't think so.">>>
You could always print this out for your aunt.
<<<My mother said the therapist had figured it all out....what MY problems are (no mention of hers)....rattled on about "displaced anger" and said she forgave me for all the ugly things I had done and all the lies I had told. In subsequent messages, she said she is again seeking mediation and doesn't know if she would "push it far enough to go to court" but she is "not going to go away." She said "This whole mess is of your making. I have seen you at your worst. You are the only one who can fix this...with my help of course.">>>
It is crazy that she wants 'mediation' when she spits out all this hatred. I doubt the therapist said you had displaced anger. I don't believe a word of it.
<<<My husband really wants to stay home for Christmas (I was ready to pack up and head to a relatives far away) and I want to accomodate him because he has been so supportive of me through this whole mess. But I am becoming very uneasy and yes, I would say, fearful.>>>
Would your husband understand that you are fearful and therefore allow the family to travel this year?
bunny
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Hi Bunny,
You are so nice to always respond to me. Thank you!
I know that if I make an issue of it, my husband would do whatever I want. However, when I first learned about this personality disorder last year at this time and did a lot soul searching on my own behavior and actions, I realized that I had been very unfair to my husband. We have always stayed home for Christmas. We have never been with his family (11 years of marriage). I always said (to everyone, including my family that is out of town) that we would stay home for Christmas and whoever wanted to visit us here was always welcome. But last year I realized that wasn't the real reason. The real reason was that I knew what my mother would put me through if I ever went away for Christmas or any other holiday and I just couldn't bear it. When I first became self employed and could arrange my holiday schedule to own liking, I remember having a major anxiety attack that I no longer had a built in excuse for staying home (couldn't get off work). I felt really guilty about it all.
So this year, I thought it would be best to go to my husband's family for Christmas....get out of town and also try make up for not being with them the past decade. But my husband said he really, really wanted to stay home. I know that he will do whatever but I would really like for my husband to get to do what he wants to for the first time ever...he's never complained. He's always been understanding. It's kind of funny...it's all backwards. I finally say let's go see your folks and he says he wants to stay home!
I took my son to church tonight for Children's Choir practice...we've been going every Wed night for 5 years and there is a meal afterwards. The kids usually go upstairs to practice and the adults visit in Fellowship Hall and then we all eat together. But tonight the kids practiced in the sanctuary. I stayed in FH as usual. When my son came to dinner, he said he saw my Mom...that she had sat in the sanctuary and watched them practice and spoke to him afterwards. He mentioned several things she said she would give him for Christmas and said she wanted to take him to a movie. She has NEVER been at church on a Wed. night (including Wed nights we were out of town and asked her to take him to practice for us...she refused). I know of no reason for her to be there except to talk to my son. I was sitting with my back to the door but a friend sitting across from me said she saw her walk through Fellowship Hall and leave by that door...again, no reason to do that, if she was in the sanctuary. There are tons of exits between the sanctuary and FH.
My friend asked if I was ok and I said I just wasn't sure how to handle situations like that. She said she thought I did great....I just said "sounds good" or something lame like that to my son and he ran off to sit with his friends. I have no intention of seeing her during the holidays and I have no intention of letting her see my son alone during the holidays or any other time for that matter. But I feel so uncomfortable when handling situations like this (just don't know what to say to my son).
You are so right, Bunny, about spewing hatred while asking for mediation....I told my aunt the same thing. I told her that I had not one email or message from my Mom that was even slightly conciliatory in nature...that they all were very ugly, although she requested mediation in most of them, and it seemed a very strange way to try to encourage me to go to mediation with her. In fact, in one message she said "If you refuse to go to mediation, people are going to think that is strange and will turn against you. If you go to mediation, the truth will come out and everyone will know you are a liar and they will turn against you." How bizarre??!!
My father says perhaps it is time to find a new church but I LOVE my church....I have a very close knit group of friends there and my son is friends with their children and those people form the center of our social lives and also my support system. We vacation together, etc. My mother has been a very irregular church goer and rarely gets involved in any activities. I feel like she is showing up now just to annoy me.
Oh well, I've rambled on again. I just keep praying for relief from her and her conniving ways. I suppose the only way to really get free is to move away from here but again, I love my home and thought I would always be here...I've just opened a new store....so many reasons to stay and only one BIG reason to leave.
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If you traveled, it wouldn't be out of selfishness but out of self-protection. Maybe your H has assessed the situation and isn't fearful - but can he guarantee your safety? Your mom sounds like a stalker.
In her distortions, "mediation" means you will be punished by authority figures. As a paranoid, she believes you've committed some crimes and that the authorities will take care of you. It's delusional.
She's stalking you and your son. It's a question of safety at this point. You can determine how dangerous she is. I would say that she is not a safe person at all.
I really feel for you, having this mental patient (aka mother) obsessed with you. It really is horrible.
bunny
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Why should you have to make drastic changes to your life over a crazy person like this??
I would seriously consider a restraining order against this woman. She's unpredictable.
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Hi, I wrote on mother problems around december 5th. You had writen about your mother and how she wanted to involve herself with your son.
I mentioned you may need to slap the lawsuit because she thinks she is DOING THE RIGHT THING. I see now others are saying to do something to protect yourself.
Her going to your chruch knowing you love your chruch, is not good. She may not only try and get to your son but will talk to those in the chruch to get her toxic views accross. I WOULD LOVE TO THINK CHRUCH WOULD TURN HER AROUND AND MAYBE SOFTEN HER HEART.
CONSIDER THE SLANDER LAWSUIT SO SHE HAS A LEGAL REASON NOT TO TALK ABOUT YOU. PUT SOME FEAR IN HER ABOUT HER ACTIONS.
I'M sorry I have mother problems too. I wish I had a mother who cared about what happens to me,but I don't. I know she would make my life unbearable.
I worry about your son because he wants a g-mother, but he is her ticket to get back at you.
Keep strong onlyrenting
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Hi Bunny and onlyrenting,
You know....you guys are so great. I had an appointment with my therapist yesterday after I wrote all of that. I described what happened at church. He immediately noticed that she did not confront me although she walked through the room. He said to me "Don't you see? SHE is afraid of YOU. " And then he asked me to describe why I was so fearful and you know, I just couldn't do it.....I couldn't explain it. I didn't really think she would be so bold as to take my son. I was fearful that she might but truly, I don't think she would.
He said he believes I am not fearful of her but rather of my own emotions and reactions and I think he is right. He said "What if she had started something with you in Fellowship Hall? Wouldn't you rather her show her true colors in public? Isn't that better, so everyone can see her behavior, instead of going behind your back telling lies about you?
It was a good session (lots of tears though) and I am feeling a lot stronger. I feel a lot stronger. We are looking forward to the family Christmas Eve service at church with our friends and then joining some of them for dinner. If she shows up, she shows up. We will be sure to fill the pew early with lots of friends so there is no room for her. Our friends have vowed to completely surround us. Christmas morning will be on OUR schedule for the first time ever...and breakfast will be a festive but simple affair so I can enjoy myself as well. I will turn the cell phones off and if she shows up, I will call the police.
She left a message for me that while she observed the children practicing, my son was "not himself", was "withdrawn, kept himself apart from the group, did not smile and barely mouthed the words to the songs." When I saw him, he was in a gang of boys all of whom were about to bounce off the walls. But I did email our choir director and asked if he observed any problem with my son that night.
He emailed "As for Wednesday, I noticed absolutely nothing unusual with XXX. He was doing just great. In fact, I was quite proud of how well he was doing! I did not notice anything that I remember about him "keeping himself apart from the group."
And by the way, he is such a great kid - I know that you and your husband are so proud of him - and you should be!"
You see....she just makes this junk up as she goes along!!!
Thanks for ALL the support. I think I can do this!!
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Yes, your mother is afraid of you because you're not a mental case. And she sees that you have friends and supporters and she doesn't.
My concern despite this, is that she is paranoid and extremely hostile/angry. So I wouldn't consider her a 'safe' person or totally non-risk. I don't know what she would do if she felt cornered. But then, I've never observed her.
Your plan to be surrounded by friends at the church is a good one. I'm glad you're so much better now and I wish you a beautiful week leading up to Christmas.
hang in there,
bunny
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Maybe it's me but why does this topic warrant 45 posts when the others have several to few? Just curious.
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Because the poster had a problem with an agressive and dangerous Nmother and still has.
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Hi everyone,
With my usual old people pleasing ways I started to apologize for posting to this thread so many times after I saw the post asking why this thread had so many posts when others do not. But I am not going to do that. There was no reason to begin a new thread and everyone here is free to read or not read any thread that interests them or not....and to reply or not. Thank you to those who have shared their experiences, wisdom and knowledge with me as I searched for my way.
Things went well this Christmas season. It was different and at times uncomfortable but most of the time was enjoyable for myself and my family. I found myself uneasy during times that were not busy...in the shower or as I was trying to fall asleep. At times it felt like guilt (my mother was 10 minutes away and we did not see her), sometimes it felt like sadness and sometimes it just felt strange (First time in 40 years I have not been with her on Christmas Day). Each time I felt this way I reminded myself that I was not responsible for any of this and that I had not caused this situation and that it is ok to do what is best for me and for my family. I was not being vindictive or mean and I did not "exclude" her (as she said many times in voice messages). She excluded herself by making her presence intolerable.
Thank you again to all of those who provided support and insight. It made a difference to me. I've been here this past week, reading other threads, which helped me remember my mother is not the only person with this behavior and reminded me there was nothing I could do to change her behavior. I know many of you had a very painful holiday season. I am grateful that while mine felt strange at times it was not particularly painful and was basically trauma free.
You all have been a very real blessing to me. I have never been able to use a name when posting but I would like to now.
A sincere thanks from me,
Eloise
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Eloise,
Glad to be of any help so you could have a nice Christmas. You're 100% right about your mother -- she excluded herself. She's lucky she doesn't have a restraining order on her right now. So you did give her a gift in that regard.
Happy New Year!
bunny
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Dear Eloise,
This was my third Christmas since my Nparents have disowned me. My father also has shown dangerous behavior to my family. Your story is so similiar to mine.
It's always harder around the holidays and birthdays to deal with this incredible situation, but it gets easier with each passing year. You will need to grieve the loss of your relationship with your Mother. Surround yourself with loving family and friends and be grateful for the love you DO have in your life.
God bless you,
Dinny
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Hi Dinny,
Thanks for your post. I WISH my mother would disown me! :) Sorry, I know that is not funny and I am sure it was and remains very painful for you. I am learning to laugh at the situation when I can. I'm still under assault from her but what I've learned is that it doesn't matter what she says or even what she believes. What matters is what I know to be true. I know that I am a kind, caring person and it's not my fault that she has always used my good nature as a weapon against me and to control me. The fact that I won't allow her to do that anymore doesn't change who I am. But as my therapist has said many times, it is very, very sad because it is all so unneccesary.
Today I had an email from my mother just dripping with sweetness about how much she loves me and my husband and wants to be part of the solution instead of the problem, etc, etc. Within an hour I had received a voice message dripping with venom about what a terrible person I am, etc, etc. If I knew my therapist wouldn't shake his finger at me, I would send her a sarcastic email about multiple personalities.
The funniest thing is she doesn't realize we have blocked her from our phone. She thinks we have had the phone service suspended. She wonders how I can run a business from home without a phone..."Your customers are receiving a message saying This number is not accepting calls. Are you aware of this? Do you think you will stay in business long that way?" She really hasn't a clue it's only her that can't get through.
Happy New Year,
Eloise
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Today I had an email from my mother just dripping with sweetness about how much she loves me and my husband and wants to be part of the solution instead of the problem, etc, etc. Within an hour I had received a voice message dripping with venom about what a terrible person I am, etc, etc. If I knew my therapist wouldn't shake his finger at me, I would send her a sarcastic email about multiple personalities.
Did your therapist tell you about splitting?
bunny
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How do you continue to allow her to even contact you? I mean, if you knew she is unstable why did you even consider allowing your son to go with her? She sounds like she has problems even beyond being a N. She sounds like a psychopath.
You don't need a restraining order. You need a hitman!
A JOKE!!!! A JOKE!!!! A JOKE!!!!
I would definitely get the restraining order and then I would notify the chief of police, the sheriff, and any other person of whom I could think.
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Hi Bunny,
I haven't seen my therapist since that happened...I'll tell him later in the week. In my last session, we dealt strictly with strategies for dealing with her should she make an uninvited appearance over the holidays. We thought of every possible scenario we could brainstorm and then we talked about what I could do.
I'm not sure what he will say. Probably nothing.
Eloise
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Hi,
I just found this forum and this thread.
I am guessing that my mother is what you all call an "N."
I worry about your mother stalking you and your son. She sounds like a bully!!
Anyway, I suggest you just call your local police and go talk to someone. They know the local laws and can advise you about what to do. At least have a record with them that you are being harassed by your bullying mother. It would not hurt to take COPIES of the tapes and e-mail messages to the police department.
Call the phone company and report the harassment. You do not have to take it.
As a survivor of a wacked family, I suggest that you detach from your family and enjoy your husband's family for your son's sake. He does not need to be exposed to her/their bad behavior. I speak from experience. My sons are now 23 and 25 and tell me that they hate being with my mother and listening to her whine. I did not make them dislike her; she did that on her own. My parents just spent Christmas ALONE. I am one of four siblings and they were alone. Big shock. I had a great time because I did not let them ruin my holiday.
You will feel better if you realize that your parents OWED YOU a good childhood and you do not owe them ANYTHING. Don't let your mother bully you.
Good luck, sweetie.
The sane daughter!