Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: sunblue on December 09, 2012, 12:03:57 PM
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Hello All.
This may be a little off topic for the board but I'm wondering if there might be a connection between voicelessness as a result of being on the receiving end of Narcissism and bullying. I am currently in a situation where I am on the receiving end of Workplace Bullying by my boss who has also successfully enlisted others in the organization in her goals. It is causing me a great deal of stress. I haven't slept in days and may be forced to resign before the holidays. I am looking to speak to an attorney about it this week but since workplace bullying is technically legal, I know I don't have much leg to stand on.
However, I'm finding it difficult to speak up about this at the company, in part because I report to the second in command and I know I won't get much support from the CEO/President. I have read where even when you know the situation is futile, you should make a point of fighting, of expressing the truth, even when it means there will be repercussions.....because otherwise it will affect your self esteem and emotional self.
While I am seeking advice from an attorney, I am debating whether I should take my situation to the CEO. But I am finding it difficult to take that step. I have always been the team player, the high producer, the strategic thinker that the CEO and others have depended on. That's why my supervisor is targeting me. She has sought to marginalize me, humiliate me in front of the company and completely minimize my role so that she, and she alone, is the one whose voice is heard.
But I'm wondering if how I'm reacting to this is impacted by my N family situation.....afraid to stand up, speak up, and always going along.
I'm at a complete loss and I feel my clinical depression really deepening.....Because my boss has been successful in her efforts, I have been ostracized by all those I knew as friends and allies in the company. The HR Director is a long time and personal friend of my boss and has proven that she cannot be subjective. So I have no compass to which I can weigh this issue against.
I'd really appreciate some insights if anyone has them.
Thanks.
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Sun, what a horrible situation for you to be in.
I don't know of an easy solution. Is the bullying something very obvious, that everyone sees, or is it the more subtle kind that other people might miss? Are you writing down things that happen and how they are affecting you? Is there a way of speaking to the person concerned along the lines of "I feel there are some difficulties in the way that we communicate, these are some of the things that I'd like to discuss with you" and then working through them - so rather than saying outright "You're a bully and this is bad" you can frame it in a way that makes it sound as if you feel it's a communication issue and you're open to putting things right between you? I've no idea if this would be possible, it might be that they are totally unapproachable? It would be awful to have to give up your job over this.
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Hello TwoPenny:
This isn't the "physical" form of bullying but a different kind. Still, others can see it, because it is deliberately humiliating. There would be no talking to this person. THis is calculating and deliberate on this person's part. She has forced two other employees out as well. She doesn't want to "work with me". She wants to control me and dicttate everything I do and my department does. She is incredibly threatened by anyone who knows what they are doing and whose work is respected by the CEO. Her answer is to make sure those people never have a voice and that they are completely controlled. While I can't prove it yet, I've been told that she has secretly asked IT to arrange it so she sees all the emails I send. She has gone behind my back to make sure my own staff work against me by meeting with them secretly or communicating with them via Instant Message. I've been ostracized by staff who have been friends and colleagues for nearly 5 years. It is a really bad situation. I have been aggressively job searching and interviewing but no offers yet. Every day is getting worse and I just don't know if I can take it anymore. The conditions are just so bad I may be forced to resign.
Workplace bullying is very pervasive and there are all kinds of forms of it. But one thing is common and that those who are bullying have issues. They are extremely insecure, controlling, manipulative, demeaning and humiliating. They target those generally who they are threatened by....
It is just humiliating that after being such an excellent performer that I will be forced out. I'm also concerned that if I resign, it will be more difficult for me to find a job. I'm trying to keep hopefu that that won't be the case but I just don't know.
Thanks for listening.....
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Hello TwoPenny:
While I can't prove it yet.....
I was thinking it would be good if you could document, provide witnesses for the larger pieces of this drama, and set up a mediation with a third party mediator, hopefully someone above both of you.
It would be interesting if you stayed focused on what you need in order to continue being productive and focused on work, and allow your boss to explain what she's been doing, and why.
Of course, that never works out well unless we've documented the facts in some way..... otherwise our story just sounds insane since there's nothing rational to be gained from doing the crazy stuff PD's do to us..... we look crazier than them bc we talked about what they're doing out loud. :shock:
Sorry this is happening to you, Sun. Are you still at home or out of the house now?
Lighter
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Hello Lighter:
I ahve documented some things. My boss has left me out of decisions, discussions and meetings I should have been involved in. She ignored the specific request of her boss (the CEO) to include me in a meeting and instead excluded me. She assigned tasks that should belong to me to other staff (including those who don't even report to her) and never discussed the matter with me. She took my strategic thinking and work and presented it to the CEO (without me) as her own. She's gone behind my back (in concert with her best friend, the HR Director) and had private meetings with my own staff, directing them to do things wthout my knowledge. There's no question that her goal is to completely minimize my role and marginalize me. I've been told she's very threatened by me (and, in fact, she was directly responsible for forcing out other high producers). The only person above her is the CEO.
(Yes, I'm still at home) and I am seriously thinking of resigning even though I don't have another job offer yet. I haven't slept in days and this is making me physically ill. I'm not sure how much more I can take. Because she is second in command to the CEO, I'm not sure if there's any point in discussing this with me.
There is no point in going to this boss and expressing my concerns because she is deliberately doing this....and will continue to do this. She is just a major manipulator and probably Narcissist who needs to be sure that her voice, and only her voice is heard within the organization.
So, I need to make a decision fairly quickly. First, do I bother discussing this with the CEO since he has the one who ultimately approver the change in reporting so that I report to her (although I'm not sure he is aware of everything she is doing). Second, if I resign, will then completely ruin my chances of getting another job?
Since I've been totally ostracized in the company, I have no one to discuss this with.....so it is really difficult. It is especially difficult since I have contributed so much to this organization, working 80-100 hour weeks and being strongly respected by the CEO....until I was forced to report to this new boss.
Not sure how much more I can hang on. Thanks for listening.
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What would be the point of resigning before you talked to the CEO?
The worst that could happen is you'd not be listened to and get canned which is exactly where you'll be if you resign, but without the satisfaction of at least having your say about what a beeyotch this hag is.
mud
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Well....talked to my attorney today. He said that Constructive Dismissal is really difficult to prove unless they physically hurt or abuse you. I could try to apply for unemployment and convince the case worker but no guarantees I'd get it. I probably will talk to the CEO this week but it is futile. He will back up my boss as she is now second in command. I am in a really low place. I feel there's no other way out than to resign....but I know that will lead to hard times in trying to find a new job. But this is impacting my health now....
I wish they would let me go.....at least I could collect unemployment....but they won't...because they need me to complete a major project.
Sometimes life just seems too hard....
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HI Teartracks:
I've been reading a lot online about workplace bullying and about being forced out of a company. My situation fits those criteria to a tee. I'm being completely marginalized, minimized, micromanaged and manipulated. My boss is completely threatened by me and so makes sure I have no voice and am excluded from meetings, discussions and decisions I should be involved in. I'm tempted to talk to my CEO before making a decision. He is aware of some of this and has allowed it but other things I'm not sure he is aware of. Other side of the coin? I'm not sure what that could be. Except that if I were so lucky to get another job, I could get out of this toxic situation and perhaps be able to once again do good work. But I've been aggressively job searching and interviewing for months and nothing yet.
This has always been a toxic environment and company.....but I have worked incredibly hard and done excellent work.....promotions, bonuses, excellent evaluations...I was well respected by the CEO and Board (until my new boss took over). This is making me physically ill.
Do you think it would be totally insane to resign before getting an offer? I'm just not sure how much more of this I can take. It pushes all my Voicelessness buttons.
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Sun, I'm awfully sorry you're suffering this way.
It's hard to call, but my advice for the question you asked is, Don't Quit.
My reason is remembering how desolate you used to be about being unemployed,
and how that lack of independence made it so much harder for you to deal with
your family.
I think I struggle with some of the same stuff. I recognized lately that I take so
many things very very personally. Some ARE (the sexist things at work, given
I'm the only woman in senority...real, prejudicial stuff). But I also let myself
be reactive to things that are NOT about me, but about my insecurity. I have
to talk to myself about the waves of hurt and anger...until I calm myself. I just
went through a wave of it all in November, and in the last few weeks, I'm detached
again. My T keeps reminding me that a job is "a job" and I need to talk to myself
about how it's a CHOICE, and that I go to and perform my job for a reason.
I hate what your supervisor's been doing, but I think Mud's right that talking
to the CEO, regardless of the outcome, is a rational, mature next step. Perhaps
if you present your desire as to benefit the workplace by defusing this situation
in whatever way you can, YOU may be seen as the more valuable employee.
If that's not the outcome, or not possible because of the people/dynamics, then you still will have
advocated for yourself by talking to him/her. It's like, not defining yourself as a victim. Making whatever
choices you CAN make, in the context of the situation.
Forget who, I think Lighter, was also wise to recommend detailed documentation.
Remove the emotional or "hurt" language, just describe...brief summaries of instances.
Just in case the CEO will be impressed by your calm tracking. Even if not, it
will help you feel more empowered to write it all down.
Then, if it's unbearable, my last suggestion would be: Don't Quit Before You
Have Another Job (even a lesser one). Or you'll go from the frying pan into the fire.
Hope that helps,
Hops
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Hi Sun,
I am sorry to hear about this. I do agree with many of the posters here, sounds like this is a very dangerous boss and not much can be done with communication or problem solving. Assuming you agree with me, I suggest you pre-plan the process to move on if necessary but not until you are able to secure a position for yourself. Here is what I would do:
1. Collect all materials (contact lists, sample work product, emails,) that you can legally take with you and take them (or copies) home. Document any and all incidents of issues with the boss and take that home also.
2. Use sick days (two if necessary) and get a medical check up, teeth cleaned, vision checked, meet with therapist (assuming you have insuracne/sicks days) . Relax, Reflect and get this done.
3. Check with an attorney, but I would schedule a meeting cautiously with HR (even if they are buddy-buddy with your boss). Let them know you love your job, the company (explain with a short succinct reason) and wish to remain there. Tell them a competitive environment has now become hostile and request their assistance in solving the problem. Be simple with your explanation, pick something they can likely help with.
4. When HR comes back with nothing, thank them and let it go. If they come back and attempt to fire you, tell them you will not be fired while attempting to resolve an issue. If they continue with a termination, take it and go to unemployment and file a complaint. Since you sought them out, asked to stay and resolve the issue, you have a case (depending on your state's laws).
5. If you are not fired, continue to do your work as best you can. Let any BS from the boss roll off your back.
6. Now, you are in the drivers seat and have bought yourself some time and possibly feel a bit more empowered. Now might be the time to address some of the issues, and if not, find some other ways to contribute. Is there another department for you to work in? Could you transfer to another office? Work for another boss? Assume other responsibilities? If not, thats OK too. During this time, keep looking for another job.
7. If another incident comes up, there may nothing more that you can do. If this happens, the only way might be to leave, but do it in a way where they allow you to collect unemployment (it will be partly their fault for not resolving the hostile work environment) and ask for a letter of reference that details your work accomplishments and willingness to cooperate with others and solve problems.
Im an advocate for not leaving, because while no one should put up with workplace abuse, its very hard to prove and there is a way to disempower the abusers through a process that protects you in the end and allows you to leave more on your own terms.
I sincerely hope some or all of this helps and wish you the very best. I was exactly in your shoes five years ago and I do know how draining and unhealthy some work environments can be.
Ales
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Hi - one more thing to add to Step 1. If possible, discreetly collect any outside contacts, vendors and clients and get behind the 8Ball and suggest something like "hey, we've known each other for two years, lets get together sometime for lunch or coffee and discuss business in depth". This way, if you are abruptly fired, they might suspect you left on your own and it gives you a headstart on networking.
I was always active in my professional organization, so employers never thought I was "networking" and it enabled me to have other contacts to vouch for me when I had a bad boss. I also held leadership positions there, and earned some recommendations independent of my paid work. This might be something else to consider.
Good luck!
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Thank you so much for your responses Ales, Tears, Hops and Mud. You have no idea how grateful I am for your help and support. I wish I could reach into this screen and give you all a huge hug of thanks! If I were really honest, I would say that I am falling apart over this. I cry in public places and each day I face a new humiliation and betrayal. Today was no exception.
Even though I think it might seal my fate, I have decided to talk to my CEO tomorrow. It will be futile as he is allowing my boss to do what she is doing but nevertheless I think he should face me about it. Essentially he let her steal my entire job and all without a single conversation with me.
Ales, you made some great suggestions and I've done most of them already. I've saved my performance evaluations (all excellent). I've saved my emails and documents to a USB drive. I have saved copies of all my own work (I work in a very public, consumer facing position so much of this is accessible via the search engines or my own site). I'm starting to document the incidents with my boss....but unfortunately I think it will be futile as well. The "witnesses" to the events would never be truthful. The HR Director is best friends with my boss and a long term employee so she will not help. All my so-called friends and co-workers betrayed me and turned away when they saw what was happening. I haven't done the doctor check up thing and I don't have a therapist right now. Of course, my N family could care less so there's no outlet there.
I've called an attorney but they said it would be very hard to prove constructive dismissal at this point The hostile environment is certainly true but it is also very subjective. The attorneys said I could try to fight it if I file for unemployment but it would be up to the individual case worker.
I can't involve the HR Director. She has already proven that she is completely unethical and can't be trusted. (Earlier in the year, she already tried to get me to trump up a false case against an employee to fire him. She also violated company policy and communicated confidential conversations with members of my staff to my boss rather than to me.)
The tough thing is they won't fire me. They don't want me to leave yet because there is a super major project which I've led and they need me to execute it. But that project is not my job. Those tasks that are my job have been stolen from me. My boss took them or delegated them to others just so I don't have a real voice in them.
I know I shouldn't quit before getting another job....but I really don't know how much of this humiliation I can take. It's so demeaning and also she is making it very clear to the company that she owns everything. What's worse is they couldn't fire me for cause. Not only have I received positive evaluations but I was promoted when my boss took over and I've received bonuses. She simply stole my job.
Hops, thanks for your advice as well. I know part of this is that my career has been my whole life. It's all I have...and I've performed so well, the injustice of it is just eating at me....just like the injustice caused by my N family. Plus it's so hard when you've been ostracized by people I've been friends with for years. I don't have a single person to speak to about it there.
I'm trying to think in terms of what you said and take the emotion out of it when I talk to this CEO. It will be very hard. They're all just pretending nothing happened. For 2 years, he promised me a new job and kept promising it to me every few months. Now, my boss stole that job and they never even discussed it with me.
I'm scheduled to be on vacation for the next 2 weeks so I thought I'd try to talk to CEO tomorrow and do my best not to make a decision or tell the CEO what I'm going to do until I return. That way I could at least get one more month of insurance coverage....but frankly, I'm not sure I can hang in there for 2 weeks. As it is I haven't slept more than an hour for a week.
So sorry for venting like this. I did want to reiterate just how very much I apprecated your taking the time to respond to me. Literally, the last couple of days it was all that kept me going. I feel myself slipping again.....So thank you, thank you, thank you.
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Hi Sun - Its OK to vent - thats part of what is great here.
I can hear the defeat, despair and feeling of hopelessness in your words. So sorry this is happening.
If you are feeling humiliation and despair, its time to go, job or no job. My point was just to get try to get into a better position at your current place, I was not suggesting you stay when you are literally a frog in boiling water.
I might add that those people are not your friends. Seven years ago, I had a situation where someone I helped get her project done, turned against me by the insistence of the charwoman. FASt forward and now those two "friends" are pitted against one another and one outed the ohter from her position after 9 years. Karma is a bitch....sad to say.
Please hang in there and just do the best you can. You are capable and deserving of much more than this and if you can handle this with grace, something else wonderful will come your way.
((((((((((((Sun)))))))))))))))
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Don't quit. First thing is Report....A hostile work place has been created. Go to your supervisor, report, your CEO report, Give them the chance to correct it. They don't like to hear those words. And make sure you say...Hostile work place.
If your boss is threatened by you now she sure will be (threatened) with the action your about to take.
If it is not corrected and continues and you must leave before you find other employment ...It will be better when you apply for unemployment.
It means you were forced to leave .....
And I doubt with your (record and standing) in the company that they will even try to fight it and if they did.....They don't always win!!
But don't quit...But do report....To Stop It Now...
Then go from there..
Fire Up!!
Deb
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I concur with debkor.
The worst that can happen is you'll end up out of work anyway, but at least you won't have to look back and regret you didn't make it as hard for them as possible.
And maybe, as debkor says, the CEO will pull his head out of his arse.
mud
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Hello Everyone:
Thank you all so much for your support. I can't tell you how grateful I am. Thank you Debkor and Mud for the advice on reporting. Just thought I'd give you an update.
Today was pretty ugly at work. My controlling boss threw a fit about something that was her fault and blamed me. She insulted me and made it clear she was angry I was honest about something related to a project.
Today I also decided to summon the courage and talk to my CEO. I was calm and collected and attempted to talk about my situation. It was clear that he in no way sees my boss as doing anything in the slightest wrong. She supports all her decisions (even when he's not aware of them). It's clear that she's gone to him and convinced him not to follow through on his promises to me and to turn my job into something I didn't sign up for. This is compounded by the fact that this other job I'm doing (totally outside of the scope of my real job) is something that is critical to him. It's a project that our Board of DIrectors is making him accountable for to get right. So bottom line, they're using me to get this other project done. I tried describing all these ways she's marginalizing me and minimizing me but he is clueless. He in no way views her as doing anything inappropriate. If she told him to jump off the bridge, he probably would.
Because of this bigger project, they won't fire me because they need me to do all the work. In the meantime, she will continue to minimize me and marginalize me. Now that we had this difficult exchange this morning, it will get worse. I know that completely.
I have documented things but an attorney has told me that essentially this kind of thing is legal. Unless they torment you based on discrimination, like race, sex, ethnicity, etc. pretty much everything else they do is within their rights....for at-will states. The attorney said I could try and fight it but chances aren't good I would get unemployment. And my employer never ever would agree to pay unemployment. In fact, in the past when they've let people go, they trump up a case so no unemployment is paid. They've won every time.
So running out of options. Of course, I'm aggressively job hunting....but I won't be able to put up with this much longer. I'm taking vacation time (but they still want me to participate in multiple meetings from home) and by the time I return, I must make a decision about resigning.
Since I've been ostracized by others, no one speaks to me (unless is necessary for work) and it's just a sad sad situation.
Well, thank you again. Even though I've never met any of you, you've all been kinder to me than anyone in my offline world. Know how much I appreciate it. Bright blessings for a great holiday.
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Well you talked to him and, as you predicted, he's clueless.
It's easy to give you advice on this and that but of course it's much different when it's just you against a whole organization which has turned a deaf ear to you.
If you do go it sounds like they're going to realize they have a good sized hole to fill.
mud
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If you do decide to leave, these clueless N's will probably quickly learn the old saying:
"Karma's a bitch and paybacks are hell!"
When I was bullied out of my position that I had worked in for 26 years, I was eligible for early retirement and took it. The N-bullies assumed that they could easily replace me with someone young, dumb, and cheap. They discovered, the hard way, that they could NOT. Every applicant they interviewed TURNED IT DOWN because the applicants were smart enough to see how much work load was involved and the low pay the N's were offering them to do that much work. At one point, one of the N's started screaming accusations at the office staff still left...accusing them all of sabotaging HER efforts to replace me. Then the higher ups decided to eliminate my old position completely so that the N-bullies could NOT fill that position. This forced my former immediate supervisor to do all of my old tasks in addition to his own and he discovered, the hard way, that my job was not that simple or easy! End result? He screwed up enough of what I used to do that it embarrassed many of the higher ups. In the end, the two N-bullies, who were unable to point the finger of blame at anyone because ALL of their targets were gone, suffered the consequences of their actions.
Sun, I'm rooting for you because I've been in your shoes and I feel your pain!
Bones
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Sun?
What happened yesterday?
Are you OK?
Lighter
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Mud, Bones and Lighter, thank you for your response.
Bones, I certainly feel your pain. Yes, these Ns they, and they alone, know everything. They don't. Not by a long shot. Even though my conversation with the CEO was painful, it was also enlightening. He is very clueless. He make some comments that clearly showed me he has no understanding of what is going on or that the kinds of decisions my horrible boss is making will not help his business. He assumes this project I'm doing will solve all his business problems. It won't, especially not in the way my boss is ego-managing it.
So, he made it clear he will support whatever my boss wants to do, will turn a deaf ear on her mistreatment of me and basically reneged on his promises to me and expects me to just continue to do all this work that is not part of my job. Nothing will change. In fact, it will be worse. My boss is clearly able to do whatever she wants and he won't take a step to intervene.
At this point I don't see any other way out but to resign. If I don't they will use me to get this big project launched and then I'm sure my boss will find a way to get rid of me since they won't need me to save the day any longer. In the meantime, she'll continue to abuse, humiliate, insult and marginalize me.
Today's my birthday and it was a sad day indeed. Take this situation and add in what has become a more extreme N family situation, and it's pretty hard to remain hopeful. I will no doubt be starting out the new year unemployed......I can only pray I will be able to find new employment relatively soon. I am very worried about that....but the alternative....to be treated like this every day, doesn't seem to be a good option either.
You know......in all of this, I couldn't help wonder, "Are there even more Ns in this world than I thought?" Or is this situation affecting me so negatively because I've grown up with Ns in my life making it even more difficult when you're demeaned and diminished in the workplace? Not sure. Maybe it's both. But I know for sure this boss of mine is N and extremely insecure.
Well, thanks to all of you again. I really appreciate your input and support. I know this has happened to others, even some of you. It's not easy, is it? Hard not to take it personally.
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Hey Sun,
First of all, happy birthday. Sorry to hear it was not great and exacerbated by the problems at work. You deserve happiness in all its forms - health, family, fun and work, so sending you best wishes for wonderful things to come your way.
In answer to your question, I think what happens in recognizing Nism or bullies is that experiences in life provide filters and thats how people see and interpret the world. Once a discovery is made, a new filter appears, and that filter is a bit of an optical illusion at times, because people tend to see what they are filtering. Kind of like what Tony Robbins talks about - our reticular activating system which is simply our eyes seeing what we've suggested. If I told you to look out for yellow VW bugs, or Arizona license plates, check out how many you'd see. And, suddenly you'd feel invaded by bugs from Arizona. :)
Lets both hope that if your job ends, a wonderful new one will come along, with a better environment, more money and more fulfillment for you. You deserve it all and dont let anyone suggest you settle for less.
Best, Ales
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(((((((((Sun))))))))))
I'm wondering if registering at a temp agency will help in finding new employment. In the meantime, I don't blame you for leaving. You've done your best and enough is enough. You can walk away with a clear conscience.
Bones
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Sun:
Document at work.
Collect your paycheck.
Do your job.
Keep applying for other jobs.
Collect your paycheck.
At this point I hope you can gain some emotional distance, and try to look on with some amusement....... it's such an odd thing to see so many people fall under the spell of a toxic controlling PD........ people write fiction that isn't this strange, kwim?
I guess you try to rise above, ask yourself what happened to your boss, and CEO that made them the way they are, and thank God you have a grip on reality, aren't harming other people, and hopefully have your health.
There's going to be a reason you went through this, and someday it will become clear.....
keep calm, and carry, Sun.
You'll move on and find a better place.....
the PD's will always be stuck in their self manufactured hells.
Happy birthday, and remember to count your blessings. You sounds so much stronger than when you were looking for work, and suffering very badly over FOO issues a while back.
It sounds like you've come a long way, and this won't destroy you......
it'll just make you stronger.
Lighter
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FWIW, I still think, Sun...Don't Quit Your Job.
(Maybe I'm just projecting anxieties about unemployment.)
I'd focus instead on two parallel things:
--challenging and dialing back your reactivity to this toxic supervisor's "trigger" remarks/comments/behaviors
--be aware of your verbal interpretations of these (I am humiliated, shamed, marginalized, invalidated, etc.) -- all of which in some sense require your interpretation/cooperation (the Eleanor Roosevelt thing about nobody can victimize you without your permission, or something like that)
--continue to do an excellent job without interpreting how others value or don't value it
--while all the above, seriously look for a new job in a methodical way
Enjoy your exit after you have secured a new position elsewhere...
This may be wrong. But I still think, Don't Quit. (Because the effect of unemployment on your life and your mental health could wind up being
more or less equivalent to the effect of this stressful situation.)
It's not a GOOD answer, I'm offering. I'm sorry. There may not be one.
love to you,
Hops