Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Twoapenny on January 10, 2013, 08:59:13 AM
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Hi all,
Just wanting to share and thank you for giving me a place to do that :)
I've had a letter from my aunt (my mum's sister) telling me my mum has serious health problems. She feels the 'situation' between me and my mum may be contributing to it and wants me to make peace with her.
I am fully aware that my mum has spouted all sorts of nonsense about me to people over the years regarding the reasons for us not being in contact. I know that none of them will know the truth and that she does a good victim routine, with lots of talk about how devastated she is and how much she loves us. I am also fully aware that the entire family know her husband abused me and they all turned a blind eye.
I have found myself feeling increasingly happy through the day at the thought that her illness might be serious and she might die. It made me realise how much damage she has done and how scared I have still been of further false accusations and the harm they can do/have done to my son. I've found myself imagining hearing that she's passed and the sense of relief I feel is huge. I've tried imagining the same scenario with a friend's mum and it made me feel really sad (I wanted to check I can feel and that I'm not just turning into a heartless person who cares about no-one).
I am 99% sure that if I offer to meet with my mum she will say no. In all these years she's never once contacted me or got in touch to do anything other than write nasty letters or harass my boy.
I am willing to write to my mum, wish her well and offer to meet with her. If she does say yes - which I doubt - I am willing to meet her for coffee somewhere.
The thing that has struck me most is that she doesn't feel like my mum at all. She just feels like a lady I used to know who did bad things and who I escaped from. I don't feel scared or worried about meeting up with her. I feel I could chat for an hour about nothing in particular, like you would a stranger on a bus or something like that. There was a time - not long ago really - when a letter like this would have sent me into a spin for days and brought up all sorts of issues and created all sorts of problems for me. Now it just feels like a neighbour asking me to do them a favour.
I'm hoping this shows healing on my part. I don't wish my mum any harm, but she isn't part of my life and really, she never has been. So I'm willing to contact her, say hope you feel better soon and offer to meet. I feel confident that doing so won't entangle me in the web. I just feel strong enough to keep my boundaries in place and not be affected by what they all think/feel/say about me.
I feel a little sad that she's got to a point in her life know where she might not have long left and yet she still hasn't done anything about her behaviour or the way she treats people. But it's more a general observation, the way I feel when I read about people being lonely or their partners leaving them or something like that. We don't really feel connected.
Anyway, I just wanted to get my thoughts out of my head and onto the screen. Thank you for reading.
Tup xx
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Well, Tupp......
I can see two positive things coming from a meeting with your mum....
placating your Aunt, (should you feel there's anything to be gained by placating her, or any other misinformed likely traitorous family member who should have protected you from your SF, but failed,) and.......
a possible reconnaissance mission that positively identifies your mother's condition as imminently fatal in the very near future.....
ahh just writing that out lifted my spirits.
DUOH! Did I really write that?
Why yes.
Yes, I think I did.
And I think you're perfectly normal for feeling happiness at being out from under the threat and trauma of your mum's egregious sabotage, and the harm done to you and your boy. I think anyone who's suffered what you have would feel some amount of relief and happiness at being out from under that threat, frankly.
Other than that, I see nothing positive to be gained by contacting your mum.
Just my two cents ((((Tupp)))).
Lighter
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Hi Lighter,
I agree with your two cents entirely! I've sent two cards, one to my mum saying I hope she feels better soon and offering to meet, one to my aunt saying thanks for letting me know and I have written to mum. I know she doesn't want to see or speak to me - she knows I won't keep my mouth shut and keep up the pretence that she needs to keep in her own mind. They all know that. In all honesty I've only offered to do it because I know she won't. The health problems could be serious and I'm suprised it's taken this long for the drinking to catch up with her. It's a funny way to have a family :? My friend's mum is turning 60 next month (these are the friends that invited us up for Christmas). She's having a big party, we're invited, everyone's looking forward to it. It's funny how you can feel so differently about two people because one treats you well and the other badly.
Hope you and your girls are well :)
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Hi Lighter,
It's funny how you can feel so differently about two people because one treats you well and the other badly.
Hope you and your girls are well :)
I think it's perfectly rational to feel positive things toward nurturing people, and negative things toward toxic, egregiously harmful people...... not funny at all, but a logical human response.
My girls are doing well, and very much enjoyed the holiday. Thanks for asking ; )
Lighter
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Hi, Tup. Please take care. When I read your post, a chill went through me. I couldn't help but think about everything you and your son have been through because of her and others. I am so glad you are feeling strong, though.
Hugs,
Butterfly (with wings a flappin' ...)
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Hi again,
I think I've messed this up. I've woken up this morning feeling completely different. I should have waited until I replied to that card. Or ignored it. Lesson learnt for the future. Never mind. Will try and forget all about it now. Don't think anything will come of it anyway but will be more cautious in future. Argh!
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Hi Twoapenny,
You know, upon rereading your original post, it is clear you didn't ask for advice. So what did I do? Spout unsolicited advice. I apologize, and ask for your forgiveness. I will try to be more aware of what my part, if any, is where future posts are concerned.
Sincerely,
tt
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Hi Twoapenny,
You know, upon rereading your original post, it is clear you didn't ask for advice. So what did I do? Spout unsolicited advice. I apologize, and ask for your forgiveness. I will try to be more aware of what my part, if any, is where future posts are concerned.
Sincerely,
tt
TT, absolutely no need to apologise, the thoughts, responses, advice of everyone on here is always helpful to me and in this case everyone has been spot on, I should have sat on this for a few days before responding. I went with my instinct which was to leap to attention when my family tell me to. I've resisted for a long time but something about this just made me jump. I should have thought it through, talked it over, responded with my intellect, not my reflex. It's a lesson learnt for the future. If she wants to meet my answer will be no and they can slag me off and call me selfish, it's not like they haven't been doing it for years already. What I've realised is I'm still incredibly angry with her; if we meet I will just be screaming and shouting at a 70 year old woman with heart problems. That's not a situation I want to put myself into.
Please don't apologise, I welcome everyone's comments here and trust your opinions xx
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I went with my instinct which was to leap to attention when my family tell me to.
Wow. This jumped off the page at me. First because it's rather subtle to "see" - and good on you for that. And secondly, I just went through this yesterday. My mom'll be having rather complicated surgery to remove several large kidney stones - she's 80 - next Friday. (And yes, I'm still sorting through all the stuff with my girls, too). So I was on the phone with Mom... when my brother called on the cell.
Long story short - the surgery conflicts with a track team trip and he's got to make a choice about which is more important to him. He wanted me to drive up - I'd have to do this alone; about 800 miles one way - just so he wouldn't have to make a decision.
I told him, I was sure he could pick which decision would make him feel the most comfortable... but that nope; I wasn't going to BE there.
And in some ways... I should've seen this happening in the situation with my girls, too. But my mom-reflex kicked in and yup! I just jumped into action before I thought it through. I took the bait to play out the old script.
I understand the anger you still might hold, Penny. There are just some "crimes against our souls" that just can't be wished away; like a lump of coal. Because I've stayed LC with my mom, even throughout my own healing process, my relationship with her has changed over time. Softened might be a good word. That wound I suffered is still there -- and it still dictates that I keep my distance, to do "right" by my own self -- but I've stopped expecting her to change; to do her part to heal my wound; and my inner little girl isn't demanding anymore that she do so. It's been a messy process -- and subject to the "broken record" that is my mother's personality mess... lots of the same old ground, over & over... her kind of implying I "fix" it for her... me knowing I can't - it'll never be good enough... and me just shrugging my shoulders and finally able to say: oh well. That doesn't make me a bad person - I can only do so much within the structure of the relationship that includes what SHE can do. I still cry over my MIL passing; I miss her. The other people - mom and MIL - are different people and the relationships were different sizes; there was a lot more room for feelings (for me) with MIL. No old wounds, maybe.
So, what "passes" for a relationship with my mom, even though it's a meager buffet and repetitive, is after all this time... the relationship; period. It is what it is. And within that - I make my own decisions about how I will act, I feel what I feel (and that's still a cluster; a ball of tangled yarn emotions), and it no longer occupies so much time or space in my life. I'm not afraid of future "regrets"... I trust myself, that I'm doing the right thing for me... and it matters a whole lot less to me, if anyone understands or likes my decisions. I explain it better than I used to. But no one can feel what I feel about - no one else lives with my particular lump of coal. The coal wears down; wears away over time. It's not the 16-ton weight it used to be.
I know that, as you process what you're feeling and think it through... you'll pick your right path with confidence. You're allowed to change your mind, too !! Up to a point, life does allow some do-overs...
You're still a very wise, warm, caring person as you've demonstrated to me over the years we've chatted back & forth. Thank you for your response on my thread. Big hugs!!!
Amber
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Tupp, I can imagine the triggering you've been through over this.
No beating yourself up. Two steps forward and one back still equals forward.
(One of my brainless but to me helpful, little epiphanies.)
And TT, I'd like to thank you for the notion: Taking on the offenses of others.
That's really a helpful thing to think about.
love
Hops
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And TT, I'd like to thank you for the notion: Taking on the offenses of others.
Thanks Hops and you're welcome. Every little tool helps, doesn't it?
Sincerely,
tt
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Urgh, I've really messed this up. I've just had a text from my step-sister to say that my mum has written to her at her place of work. I don't know what's in the letter as I can't get hold of my sister (she's not supposed to use her phone during a work day). I've opened the can of worms again, what was I thinking? There's no reason for my mum to write to my sister, she can write to me directly (if she wants to). She's spent enough time driving past my house to know where I live.
Sorry, I will reply to the other posts as soon as I've calmed down a bit. I'm really cross that I've done this to myself again. I find it hard to be hard, if that makes sense?
I'm thinking just ignore the whole thing now? Don't reply, don't respond, ignore any further letters from other relatives etc etc. Just act like they don't exist. What do you guys think?
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I'm just noticing my reactions to this. There was sheer panic, bordering on terror, at the thought that I have upset people, not done the 'right' thing and enraged my mother. I think this is the young me responding. My job as a child was to keep everyone happy and there was hell to pay if I didn't. I just couldn't handle it. The house was so much easier if there was no conflict. I think I'm going to take my son out somewhere for a few hours, a bit of self care for me now, little Penny who no-one cared about and my boy, who doesn't have to deal with this crap and I am so thankful for that!
I've started to calm down a little and from other text messages my step-sister has sent it looks as though the letter may be to my step-sister, about my step-sister. When she texted me I assumed it was about me, because I sent that card offering to meet up. That might not be the case.
I will need to talk to her later and think about that some more. If she has contacted me because my mum has written to her about her I think I will be quite annoyed. I feel like I am unable to cope with other people's problems and dilemmas now. I just can't cope any more. I've been feeling so ill for months. I think it's stress, as all the tests the doctor is doing keep coming back negative. Obviously it will be good if it isn't something physical - I don't want to be ill - but if it is stress and people keep ignoring my pleas not to contact me with their problems I don't quite know what I'm going to do about it. I will think about it some more later.
Sorry for rambling on. I wanted to get it written down because I tend to forget these intense feelings quite quickly and everything just goes numb. Thank you xx
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a possible reconnaissance mission that positively identifies your mother's condition as imminently fatal in the very near future.....
ahh just writing that out lifted my spirits.
DUOH! Did I really write that?
Okay, I had to repost Lighter's comment because it really hit home. I'm dealing with the same issue right now. In fact, another letter came yesterday from my father, guilting me all to heck, telling me how my mother's "cancer" (something still not verified) has gone to her brain and that she is in great pain and suffering. I guess this is where the mention of a "reconnaissance mission" grabbed my attention, because I am still not convinced that she is dying, or even has cancer for that matter.
Tup, I really understand the conflicted emotions that you're feeling at this time. When I was told that my mother was dying, my reactions jumped from feeling guilty for going NC, to wishing her a slow and painful death for 50 years of abuse and neglect. As children of Ns, we have been through SO much. A lifetime of emotional suffering that will not go away when they do. It will get better, for sure, but we are damaged goods, and they did that to us. I, too, have had stress-related medical problems, all because of torment from my FOO. I think, in the end, we have to take care of ourselves.
In my case, I do feel that the letters I've received from my father and sister telling me of NM's impending death were orchestrated by NM herself. I can tell by the wording of the letters, that they were most likely dictated. I am sure of one thing. She wants to see her daughter one last time, not because she's had a death bed epiphany and wants to apologize, but to stick it to me one more time. That way she can die happy. In fact, such a scene was perfectly portrayed on the series "Rescue Me." Maybe I can find the clip. They absolutely nailed it.
I realize this is a confusing mess for you, with multiple relatives involved. I would just say to do what is best for you and your son. Sometimes it IS hard to separate the young you from the adult you, and we start to feel that daughterly duty. In my case, I got fooled four years ago when I was first told that NM was on her death bed, which may have been the turning point for me, as I now simply don't care what becomes of her. I really believe that an N's death is their moment to shine. I'm sure that they actually hope for a long and drawn out illness that can be used for drama, attention, and to stick it to us one final time. Follow your instincts. If anything doesn't feel right, detaching yourself may be the best thing.
I wish you all the best with this. This is never an easy situation. Never.
Kathy
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Kathy, I'm so sorry you are still getting letters from your family as well, the whole situation just makes me want to bang my head against a wall.
I am completely with you on not knowing whether it is 'real' or not. Years ago she wrote to me and basically intimated that she had cancer and it was very serious. She didn't and it wasn't but it had me jumping to attention. To be honest, given the fact that she's drunk herself into a coma on a regular basis for the last thirty years I'd be more suprised if she didn't have health problems, but I wouldn't put it past her to be laying it on with a trowel.
I feel like you, that I just want her dead, if only because it means there won't be any new things to deal with. It's made me realise how much I hate her, although I'd convinced myself I was fine with the situation and I didn't have any bad feelings towards her anymore.
The letter she's written to my step-sister is mad, rambling, full of lies and done in her usual way of avoiding any real issue and waffling on about herself endlessly. She is truly detached from reality. I thought I'd got to a point where I could deal with the madness, if necessary, but it seems that isn't the case. I'm extricating myself from the whole thing now. It's difficult because the stuff she writes is so wide of the mark that it makes you want to write back and tell it straight, but that's just what she wants. I think you are right, they want to see you once more just to be nasty one last time. I won't give her the satisfaction.
I cannot bear to think that I might get like her when I am older. I am so scared of turning into her and that kind of madness becoming my normal. I hate to think of my son wanting me dead because it would make his life easier.
On a lighter note, we went out and had a nice couple of hours and he's got trampolining tonight so at least I won't be sitting at home twiddling my thumbs. And the evenings are getting lighter now which always helps lift everybody's mood. I've had a bit of a chat with my step-sister this afternoon and it's cleared the air a bit. I think sometimes two very damaged people in a relationship can be a difficult thing to manage, even if you both want to.
Thank you.
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It's difficult because the stuff she writes is so wide of the mark that it makes you want to write back and tell it straight, but that's just what she wants.
Exactly! As soon as you reply, it's a huge victory for her. My NM managed to guilt me into responding four years ago when I was first told she had "terminal cancer," and I'll never forgive myself for falling for it. I think the fact that we have to question whether or not they are really ill speaks volumes. Like the boy who cried wolf, you can only fake a terminal illness so many times. One day it's going to be real, and people will question it. It's sad, but they DO they bring this on themselves.
Don't ever fear turning out like her (though I know we all have that fear). One of my better therapists once told me that, to her experience, daughters of Ns are usually very good parents because they go to such great lengths to break the cycle. You aren't like her. You wouldn't be here with us if you were.
Stay strong. I guess if there's any positive in this, it's knowing that one day they WILL die, and the letters and taunting will stop. The day will come when they can't hurt us anymore. Sometimes I hate myself for wishing death on her, but she's not human, she's evil, and evil needs to die.
Kathy
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Tupp:
I'm hoping you work through this, and find you have no desire to talk about your mum, much less contact her ever again in your life.
I hope you can leave her behind, and head into unchartered waters.
When you get to a certain point, you stop making the same mistakes, not that you stop making mistakes.
You just starting making new ones.
For my part, I think you're better off with a non negotiable NC in place with your mum, but you're the one who has to get through your day, and you're the one who has to make peace with it.
I wonder, what advice would you give to someone else in exactly your situation, Tupp?
Rhetorical, but not really ((((Tupp and son.))))
Lighter
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Tired, have had a shitty day so will write more tomorrow but for now
I'M RUNNING FOR THE BLOODY HILLS, SHE IS BEYOND HELP AND I WANT HER OUT OF MY LIFE, MY MIND, MY AIR SPACE FOR EVER. DON'T KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING BUT I AM NOT THINKING IT ANYMORE! ARRGGHH!
Thank you all for being there and understanding. You are all amazing. Thank you xx
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{{{{{{ Tup }}}}}}
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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It's difficult because the stuff she writes is so wide of the mark that it makes you want to write back and tell it straight, but that's just what she wants.
Exactly! As soon as you reply, it's a huge victory for her. My NM managed to guilt me into responding four years ago when I was first told she had "terminal cancer," and I'll never forgive myself for falling for it. I think the fact that we have to question whether or not they are really ill speaks volumes. Like the boy who cried wolf, you can only fake a terminal illness so many times. One day it's going to be real, and people will question it. It's sad, but they DO they bring this on themselves.
Don't ever fear turning out like her (though I know we all have that fear). One of my better therapists once told me that, to her experience, daughters of Ns are usually very good parents because they go to such great lengths to break the cycle. You aren't like her. You wouldn't be here with us if you were.
Stay strong. I guess if there's any positive in this, it's knowing that one day they WILL die, and the letters and taunting will stop. The day will come when they can't hurt us anymore. Sometimes I hate myself for wishing death on her, but she's not human, she's evil, and evil needs to die.
Kathy
Kathy, I think there's a lot there that resonates with me. It's not in my nature to turn my back on someone who is ill or in pain - to me that's a very inhumane thing to do. I feel very deeply for people who are lonely or isolated - I suppose because I have been for so much of my life - and I honestly would happily spend time with anyone who would benefit from a little human company, which we all need from time to time.
Like you, I feel her death is the only answer. I've had hassle from my younger sister before but she's like your dad, she's just doing as she's told and won't carry it along on her own. But again, to wish someone were dead is so far from who I am and the sort of person I genuinely am deep inside that it feels so wrong to feel like that.
I suppose what I am starting to realise now is that she is just not human. She has written to my step-sister and she's carried on in the way she always has - claiming she's done things she hasn't, claiming other people have done things they haven't, denying things she has done, playing one person off against another, basically painting herself as a picture perfect victim who has never done anyone any harm and who is surrounded by nasty, viscious people who are all jealous of her and who wish her harm, despite the fact she's never done anything to them. It's complete fantasy. There's no learning process there, never has been. She's been this way for all of her adult life - 50 or so years. I think part of me thought that as she got older and her own death became more likely that she'd at least accept she'd done wrong, if only to further her own agenda (ie seek forgiveness before she died or see her grandchildren one more time, that sort of thing). But there's no aspect of that about her. She's so full of poison and judgement, she just doesn't recognise other people's feelings or emotions at all.
I was reading an article yesterday about the importance of early intervention and intensive therapy in autism. My son never got that, because of the lies she kept telling about him. It makes me so angry, what she did may have affected his entire life but she truly doesn't care. I've agonised over decisions I've made regarding contact, telling people things, reporting my stepdad and so on. I've never taken decisions like that likely and I've had terrible sleepless nights wondering if I've done the right thing or made the right choice. She's like a child playing with a doll's house, just placing people wherever suits her and picking them up and putting them down again at will.
I suppose the positive thing about this is that I have seen the reality now. I think I've softened over the years I haven't been in touch with her. At least I've realised in time and I am keeping well away! Thank you xx
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Your thread title says it all, Tupp.
I'm so sorry.
Hops
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Hi everyone,
Sorry, I've been a bit quiet, needed to get my head together a bit.
In a way this has been good, it showed me there was more I needed to sort out in my own mind and I hadn't realised that, I thought I was 'done' where my mum is concerned.
It's made me realise, finally, that her brain is hard wired in a very different way and she simply can't live in a way that most people do. I am still people pleasing and putting others first all the time and I really need to work on that now, it's getting ridiculous. I think I'm going to try and make this year the year of me - work on my health, which is really suffering now with all the years of stress and work on who I am - stop jumping to other people's tunes and concentrate on doing what I want to do when it suits me best. A few things I've noticed over the last few weeks that are all quite small but show people think of themselves and not me:
A friend who talked about herself for fifty minutes during our last phone conversation and then told me when the best time of day was to catch her in (with no thought for when it might be convenient for me to talk, that's assuming I can get a word in)
A relative who still hasn't given my son his Christmas present because he wants to 'see his face' when he opens it and so far there hasn't been a time when we're both available (and probably won't be until next Christmas now)
A friend who wanted to come along to an event I was planning to go to but now wants us to go to something else because it no longer fits in with her plans
A friend who invited herself to stay over Christmas without asking if it was okay for me (I put her off coming)
Two friends who took an inordinate amount of time to return my last call to them, six weeks in one case and four months in the other! I decided I'd wait the same length of time before calling them back, one then started ringing daily and leaving messages asking why I hadn't called and the other left a message wanting to know if I was free to meet up the following day.
None of those things are a terribly big deal, but they've made me realise that I just feel invisible and always have done. I feel like I'm taken out of my box when needed and put back in when I'm not.
Thank you for reading, and for being there and understanding. It helps me so much. Sorry for going quiet. I hope everyone is doing okay. Thank you.
Tup xx
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Tup...
What you said about making this year all about you, strikes me as the best antidote to the residual toxins you're dealing with. It also vaccinates you against "future situations"... where you might unwittingly fall into the same old patterns. If you can push on and do this (don't worry about "acing" it... just do what you can)... I think you'll notice that overall you start to feel better, won't be stressed... or as susceptible to being pushed into a stress response... by normal life stuff.
It doesn't "feel right" initially, to put yourself first. And whatever the change you've selected to work on... the "path of least resistance" is to always fall back into the same old rutted neuro-paths. Of course, the reflex when one falls back... is to replicate the old abuse - the mental tapes, the feelings, etc... the "never good enough" scenario, which in turn kicks in the old stuff, which in turn starts generating those mental toxins, that turn into emotion poison, and then start affecting (some) of us physically.
When you continually, persistently, bring it all back around to you... and what you want (goals)... the first real changes are miniscule and subtle. It helps me not get discouraged and give up, if I simply focus on what I did accomplish (and ignore - for now, in that first phase) - what I didn't. I don't know about you, but I tend to "teeter-totter" a lot in this part of doing something new or making a change. Like a yo-yo dieter I'm really good about giving myself permission to return to the "old way" that I wanted to change... as if it were a reward (like my goal) simply because I associate "feeling safe" or "feeling good" with it.
Yeah, I know that's all tangled up. The goal can be the reward... all by itself... but my inner, conditioned emotional self is still convinced of the magic powers of the old pattern. There's probably a real neuro-response underneath what we experience... like a dopamine release or something... so that explains why it's so hard to change things like this about ourselves.
Trying to change one's Pavlovian response to others in need... when part of one's FOO role was caretaker... means having to work through stereotypes that WE hold about what's selfish or not, about what constitutes an ability/inability (whether it be time, money or relationship) to help, and sorting through and maybe even re-organizing our own beliefs about responsibility... what each person does for themselves and is expected to do for themselves. Yeah, this also gets into the muck of guilt, obligation, etc again... but at a completely different place and context than what one goes through initially... sorting out FOO-stuff.
Trying to change those kinds of programmed responses, also has the risk that we'll wake up our own inner critic... that collection of thoughts and emotions that make us feel lower than worms. Part of the real change -- is to be able to see it coming up to start the old tirades again -- telling it to stuff it -- and moving along without a second thought, twinge of guilt or fear of regret.
All those little baby-steps you make in trying to change... may not completely erase the old neural pathways; it might still be there later on. But you'll be in control of choosing to accept it... or say: HEY WAIT A MINUTE... I don't know that I want to do this!
And that's a good thing. Hang in there!! I think you're "getting it" just fine.
Amber
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Hi everyone,
Sorry, I've been a bit quiet, needed to get my head together a bit.
In a way this has been good, it showed me there was more I needed to sort out in my own mind and I hadn't realised that, I thought I was 'done' where my mum is concerned.
It's made me realise, finally, that her brain is hard wired in a very different way and she simply can't live in a way that most people do. I am still people pleasing and putting others first all the time and I really need to work on that now, it's getting ridiculous. I think I'm going to try and make this year the year of me - work on my health, which is really suffering now with all the years of stress and work on who I am - stop jumping to other people's tunes and concentrate on doing what I want to do when it suits me best. A few things I've noticed over the last few weeks that are all quite small but show people think of themselves and not me:
A friend who talked about herself for fifty minutes during our last phone conversation and then told me when the best time of day was to catch her in (with no thought for when it might be convenient for me to talk, that's assuming I can get a word in)
A relative who still hasn't given my son his Christmas present because he wants to 'see his face' when he opens it and so far there hasn't been a time when we're both available (and probably won't be until next Christmas now)
A friend who wanted to come along to an event I was planning to go to but now wants us to go to something else because it no longer fits in with her plans
A friend who invited herself to stay over Christmas without asking if it was okay for me (I put her off coming)
Two friends who took an inordinate amount of time to return my last call to them, six weeks in one case and four months in the other! I decided I'd wait the same length of time before calling them back, one then started ringing daily and leaving messages asking why I hadn't called and the other left a message wanting to know if I was free to meet up the following day.
None of those things are a terribly big deal, but they've made me realise that I just feel invisible and always have done. I feel like I'm taken out of my box when needed and put back in when I'm not.
Thank you for reading, and for being there and understanding. It helps me so much. Sorry for going quiet. I hope everyone is doing okay. Thank you.
Tup xx
((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I can relate!!! Oh boy, can I relate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
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Thank you, Phoenix. I completely agree with everything you've said there, particularly the bit about feeling lower than a worm. My reaction in myself when I say no to someone (or even just don't respond immediately) is terrible - i don't know why I haven't noticed it before!
Today, for example, we've battled through the snow to get some groceries in so it's taken much longer to do than it normally would. When I got home there was a message from a friend asking if she could pop round. I had some stuff I wanted to do, phone calls I wanted to make and so on but I found it so hard to resist the urge to text her and say yes, come over. Then she turned up anyway with another friend (again, no boundaries on my part) and I didn't say anything, just let them in and felt moany and resentful. They left, and then later she texted wanted to come back over and I felt guilty for saying no and made an excuse about not feeling well. I want to be able to either just ignore it (but if I do that people turn up anyway sometimes and I find that difficult to cope with) or say honestly, no, I fancy a quiet night in on my own. Something to work on!
I do need to make more effort to reach out and make new friends, and to do more things for me, for no reason other than I like them. I've thought about voluntary work some more as well. I do genuinely enjoy helping people and caring for them, but it would be better to help those who genuinely need it, homeless people maybe, or the elderly. That way I'd get my fix of helping out whilst genuinely doing some good for someone in a difficult situation. I'd just need to make sure not to over commit myself. Thank you for all the thoughts and feedback.
Bonesie - I'm sorry that you can relate! Sometimes the board is bittersweet - having people understand is amazing but knowing they understand because they've been hurt badly as well makes me sad :( Bad things happening to nice people, it's not right. Thank you for the hug (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bones)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Hi ((((Tupp))))
I was talking to my T today and he pointed out how the "original wound" just
keeps getting re-enacted and processed over and over in life, and how normal
that is, and how everyone as they work through their own life story, is reaching
for that point where they actually can change the script.
I hear your "original hurt" when you are not appreciated, or taken for granted,
or feel unable to assert yourself without anguish.
I LOVE that you are such a durable soul that you keep conjuring up new ideas,
and new ways that you might meet your needs for connection, in scenarios
that might NOT bang on those same old emotional bruises.
I think you're very positive, and full of life, and so so so full of light and
possibility.
I would never give up on the idea of you flowering into happiness.
Old bruises may always ache from time to time, in some interactions,
but I have a very strong vision of Tupp learning how to carry herself
kindly.
Be patient with yourself. You've come SO much farther than you
probably see, or give yourself credit for.
Really, you are remarkable.
lots of love,
Hops
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Hopsie, thank you, you are so kind :) I don't feel remarkable, I feel knackered and worn out from the constant thinking - my brain feels like it's always working on ten things at once :)
I am trying to take better care of myself, physically as well as emotionally. I saw the doctor who feels a lot of my health problems are stress related. He was very kind and understanding. He's organising some tests just to rule certain things out but it's pretty much the first time I've ever seen a 'professional' and felt they've heard what I'm saying. I usually feel that I'm being dismissed for wasting people's time.
I've noticed a few things recently and I wonder if anyone else finds the same in their life?:
I don't expect to be listened to. If I'm talking to someone and they don't interrupt or talk over me I start to feel anxious. I'm not used to talking about myself for long periods of time (more than a minute or so). I'm not used to giving detail, or explaining things in depth. I think possibly because my whole life has been spent listening to other people talk and being around people who aren't interested in what I have to say. It feels odd to me that someone might actually want to hear me?
I've realised that I can pick out the good bits of a friendship and ignore the bad bits (as long as it's not abusive etc). For example - I've tried to explain to my sister how I feel about her calling with her problems and issues. I love her and she is capable of great kindness, but she can also be very thoughtless and I find her very tiring. I realised yesterday that I can meet her for a coffee every now and again (which I like doing) and I can ask for the odd favour but I don't have to listen to the problems - I can ignore the call, not respond to the text, tell her I'm too busy if she turns up on the door step. I think I've felt that if I'm someone's 'friend' then I have to be available at all times, whenever it suits them, for whatever reason, otherwise I don't have a right to ask for a favour or to pay them a visit to say hi and spend some time with them. I'm starting to realise that's not the case. It still feels a bit odd but I want to work at it.
I also very much want to start going out without my son a bit more and making more effort to spend time getting to know people better. There are people I know casually who I would like to spend more time with but I feel afraid of asking them 'out'. I want to try and work on that (but there's so much snow at the minute that I do have a valid reason for putting it off because I can't get anywhere for now!).
I've also decided to cut short the calls with 'friends' who talk about themselves too much. I'm going to give it eight minutes and if in that time they haven't asked me a question or given me any kind of chance to speak I'm going to make an excuse to get off the phone and go and do something else. They can talk someone else's ears off :)
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I think I've felt that if I'm someone's 'friend' then I have to be available at all times, whenever it suits them, for whatever reason, otherwise I don't have a right to ask for a favour or to pay them a visit to say hi and spend some time with them.
Now, did you really hear what you said here? LOL... this is IT. This is what N-moms think relationships are all about: having us available to them at all times, for whatever reason... and since they claim control of us... we don't have the right to ask for a favour or anything else... unless THEIR NEEDS are satisfied FIRST.
That was perfectly said.
I still struggle with this too, btw. It gets better, but it's so deep down and (subtly) instinctive the only way I know to "edit" the reflex response - is with present moment awareness... combined with a quick "meeting" with my prim and disapproving inner scheduling director and wild-child whims.
OH... and I think that under the circumstances, it's probably healthy for you to wish your mom wasn't around anymore. Understandably, you want it all to STOP. The trick is, I think, to completely remove the power of "the mom" in your mind... just mentally go through taking back your own power and making her powerless -- and if there's anger lingering around looking for a target, just have a teenaged, total melt-down anger fantasy. This is almost a physically painful part of separating oneself from an "enmeshed" type of relationship... but a very healthy step along the way to just being you and making it all "stop".
Man, I'm for real, stealing that description of relationships... it was that perfect!! ;)
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OH... and I think that under the circumstances, it's probably healthy for you to wish your mom wasn't around anymore.
I think so too. It just takes time to accept that it's okay for us to wish them gone. I believe the reason we struggle with feelings of guilt for having those thoughts is because we're .... normal! We have normal, functioning human brains. We have the basic human instinct to care for and nurture others, so we feel that there's something wrong with us when we wish that our NM's would die. What we have to remember is that we aren't wishing death on some random person. We aren't plotting murder. Only someone with a defective brain would do that. We simply want their lives to end naturally so that we may be released from our own suffering, suffering that they inflicted on us. It also doesn't help that society tells us that we're to love our parents unconditionally. Only another victim of an NM can truly understand. Thank goodness we have boards like this one where we can meet others in the same situation. A few decades ago, that wouldn't have been possible. So at least we have that.
I also wanted to tell you that I, too, have a very difficult time saying no, probably because I was raised to put NM before myself, always. I was not allowed to assert myself or say no to anything. I was taught to be weak. Things that we are taught as children stay with us, and we really have to work hard to learn how to change those behaviours. I would guess that most children of Ns have a very difficult time asserting themselves. I had to learn to be tougher when I got a job in management, and I felt guilty every time I had to reprimand someone. I was being paid to do what my mother would punish me for. Who wouldn't be confused in a case like that? Trying to unlearn what they drilled into our brains is very difficult. It's like trying to learn to write with the other hand. It doesn't feel natural. It CAN be done, but it takes a lot of work.
Ehhhh .... it sucks. :?
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I understand.
I yearned for it to be over, too.
It was so hard to sort out what was the difference between:
--wishing for it to "be over" so I could experience my own life again, my own hopes -- and
--wishing her harm
I didn't wish her harm.
I didn't want her to die.
I just wanted relief.
I get it.
love,
Hops
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You said it a lot better than I could have. Yes, that's it, exactly.
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I think I've felt that if I'm someone's 'friend' then I have to be available at all times, whenever it suits them, for whatever reason, otherwise I don't have a right to ask for a favour or to pay them a visit to say hi and spend some time with them.
Now, did you really hear what you said here? LOL... this is IT. This is what N-moms think relationships are all about: having us available to them at all times, for whatever reason... and since they claim control of us... we don't have the right to ask for a favour or anything else... unless THEIR NEEDS are satisfied FIRST.
That was perfectly said.
I still struggle with this too, btw. It gets better, but it's so deep down and (subtly) instinctive the only way I know to "edit" the reflex response - is with present moment awareness... combined with a quick "meeting" with my prim and disapproving inner scheduling director and wild-child whims.
OH... and I think that under the circumstances, it's probably healthy for you to wish your mom wasn't around anymore. Understandably, you want it all to STOP. The trick is, I think, to completely remove the power of "the mom" in your mind... just mentally go through taking back your own power and making her powerless -- and if there's anger lingering around looking for a target, just have a teenaged, total melt-down anger fantasy. This is almost a physically painful part of separating oneself from an "enmeshed" type of relationship... but a very healthy step along the way to just being you and making it all "stop".
Man, I'm for real, stealing that description of relationships... it was that perfect!! ;)
How funny, I thought I was over reacting or reading too much into it but you feel exactly the same?
I sort of feel like I don't want to see anyone at the moment. I'm finding all of my 'friends' annoying and selfish. I've been seeing a few health care people, because I've been feeling so ill, and they keep asking about friends, support, people to babysit and so on and I feel guilty when I say no, there isn't anyone (that's not strictly true, I have one friend who will babysit). I just have so little energy at the moment, I'm finding it hard to do anything more than get through the day.
-
I understand.
I yearned for it to be over, too.
It was so hard to sort out what was the difference between:
--wishing for it to "be over" so I could experience my own life again, my own hopes -- and
--wishing her harm
I didn't wish her harm.
I didn't want her to die.
I just wanted relief.
I get it.
love,
Hops
That's probably it, I just want the endless thinking and what next and why am I so bad to stop. I felt so ashamed that my first thought when I read 'Your mother has serious heart problems' was 'good', followed by 'I'm amazed they found she had one'.
I've been going through the almost 200 pages detailing the false accusations she's made against me and the proof I collected that showed she was lying and what hit me yesterday - and I don't know why it never struck me before - is that it's the most effort she ever put into my life. If I wrote down all the nice things she did I'd struggle to fill a side of A4, and some of those things would be things that I think are just basic requirements of being a parent, like cooking meals and washing.
No input at any age - no emotional guidance, no playing, no help with homework, no chats about boys or make up or music, just mockery and criticism and barbed praise (you read that so nicely, why can't you speak like that all the time?). But when I threatened her warped version of reality and started talking about the abuse she pulled out the guns and worked her arse off. I guess that's what it means, you're there for them and them alone. You just don't matter.
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OH... and I think that under the circumstances, it's probably healthy for you to wish your mom wasn't around anymore.
I think so too. It just takes time to accept that it's okay for us to wish them gone. I believe the reason we struggle with feelings of guilt for having those thoughts is because we're .... normal! We have normal, functioning human brains. We have the basic human instinct to care for and nurture others, so we feel that there's something wrong with us when we wish that our NM's would die. What we have to remember is that we aren't wishing death on some random person. We aren't plotting murder. Only someone with a defective brain would do that. We simply want their lives to end naturally so that we may be released from our own suffering, suffering that they inflicted on us. It also doesn't help that society tells us that we're to love our parents unconditionally. Only another victim of an NM can truly understand. Thank goodness we have boards like this one where we can meet others in the same situation. A few decades ago, that wouldn't have been possible. So at least we have that.
I also wanted to tell you that I, too, have a very difficult time saying no, probably because I was raised to put NM before myself, always. I was not allowed to assert myself or say no to anything. I was taught to be weak. Things that we are taught as children stay with us, and we really have to work hard to learn how to change those behaviours. I would guess that most children of Ns have a very difficult time asserting themselves. I had to learn to be tougher when I got a job in management, and I felt guilty every time I had to reprimand someone. I was being paid to do what my mother would punish me for. Who wouldn't be confused in a case like that? Trying to unlearn what they drilled into our brains is very difficult. It's like trying to learn to write with the other hand. It doesn't feel natural. It CAN be done, but it takes a lot of work.
Ehhhh .... it sucks. :?
I think weak is a good way to describe it, I feel like I have no personality of my own? I'm always defined by other people, what they want, what they need, not by who I am or what I enjoy. People keep asking me what I enjoy and in all honesty it's just comfort - a big, squishy sofa, a film and some chocolate, a comfy bed, a cup of tea and a good book, a hot bath and lots of bubbles. It's comfort and security, not people or activities. I go for acupuncture and the lady asked me this week what I used to enjoy doing before I had my son. The only honest answer I could give her was things that were self-destructive and numbed me out - smoking, drinking, taking drugs. I've never really done 'things' I enjoy, I just do things that make how I feel more bearable. That just feels so wrong and such a disgusting thing to say - life has been so bad that the only way I endure it is to smooth it out in some way? Sometimes I wonder if I should just stop fighting it and go to the doc and let him pump me full of enough pharmeceuticals that I just don't care anymore.
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OH... and I think that under the circumstances, it's probably healthy for you to wish your mom wasn't around anymore.
I think so too. It just takes time to accept that it's okay for us to wish them gone. I believe the reason we struggle with feelings of guilt for having those thoughts is because we're .... normal! We have normal, functioning human brains. We have the basic human instinct to care for and nurture others, so we feel that there's something wrong with us when we wish that our NM's would die. What we have to remember is that we aren't wishing death on some random person. We aren't plotting murder. Only someone with a defective brain would do that. We simply want their lives to end naturally so that we may be released from our own suffering, suffering that they inflicted on us. It also doesn't help that society tells us that we're to love our parents unconditionally. Only another victim of an NM can truly understand. Thank goodness we have boards like this one where we can meet others in the same situation. A few decades ago, that wouldn't have been possible. So at least we have that.
I also wanted to tell you that I, too, have a very difficult time saying no, probably because I was raised to put NM before myself, always. I was not allowed to assert myself or say no to anything. I was taught to be weak. Things that we are taught as children stay with us, and we really have to work hard to learn how to change those behaviours. I would guess that most children of Ns have a very difficult time asserting themselves. I had to learn to be tougher when I got a job in management, and I felt guilty every time I had to reprimand someone. I was being paid to do what my mother would punish me for. Who wouldn't be confused in a case like that? Trying to unlearn what they drilled into our brains is very difficult. It's like trying to learn to write with the other hand. It doesn't feel natural. It CAN be done, but it takes a lot of work.
Ehhhh .... it sucks. :?
I think weak is a good way to describe it, I feel like I have no personality of my own? I'm always defined by other people, what they want, what they need, not by who I am or what I enjoy. People keep asking me what I enjoy and in all honesty it's just comfort - a big, squishy sofa, a film and some chocolate, a comfy bed, a cup of tea and a good book, a hot bath and lots of bubbles. It's comfort and security, not people or activities. I go for acupuncture and the lady asked me this week what I used to enjoy doing before I had my son. The only honest answer I could give her was things that were self-destructive and numbed me out - smoking, drinking, taking drugs. I've never really done 'things' I enjoy, I just do things that make how I feel more bearable. That just feels so wrong and such a disgusting thing to say - life has been so bad that the only way I endure it is to smooth it out in some way? Sometimes I wonder if I should just stop fighting it and go to the doc and let him pump me full of enough pharmaceuticals that I just don't care anymore.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I hear what you're saying and I can say that you are not alone! When I was younger, the only way I knew how to get through each day was to be self-destructive and numb out on legal and illegal drugs plus alcohol. I finally hit bottom on March 16, 1985 when I realized I wanted to live more than I wanted to die. When I was talking to a counselor, one day, regarding the sexual abuse I had endured at the hands of Womb-Donor and her pedophile boyfriend, it suddenly hit me what I was drinking at drugging at......why I was self-medicating. Once that clarity hit my brain cells, the cravings for alcohol and drugs evaporated. That's when the healing started.
Bones
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Thanks, Bonesie,
That's probably similar to what's happened to me. I remember sitting in a car smoking weed after a particularly heavy night out - all sorts of drugs - and thinking "there must be more to life than this". And that was a long time ago now, the booze took a lot longer to get rid of completely - probably another ten years and, like you, I don't crave either of those things now. But I sort of don't crave anything else either? I feel an almost constant sense of just getting through the day and being kept sane by simple pleasures like a film or a book and some chocolate. I find interacting with people tiring and, a lot of the time, boring? I don't think that's normal? It's different online, the face to face stuff isn't there, it doesn't feel like you have to think about anything other than what you are saying, particularly when it's in an anonymous way like this (I know a lot of us know each other well online but in the real world we could walk past each other in the street and not have a clue). So forums I can cope with, I like to read, I have a whole wonderful life inside my head of how I'd like it to be and what I imagine 'life' should or could be like, but the reality is I've done the housework this morning, we'll go and do some shopping after lunch, I'll log on again after dinner and then I'll watch a film after my son has gone to bed. I can't even think of anyone I'd like to see or speak to, or anything I'd really like to do? I seem to have fallen in love with my pyjamas! They're very cute and snuggly :)
(((((((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Maybe one small commitment per week, Tupp, that would work against social isolation.
Or even every two weeks. Just an hour or two each time.
Something that takes you into positive contact with others.
But not something that adds big stress to your schedule.
Something that might take effort to go do, but not so much effort that you can't start the habit.
I think it'd be good for you. As a hedge against long-term isolation.
Meanwhile, any time you wanna talk about relationships w/pyjamas...YES!
:)
Hops
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Maybe one small commitment per week, Tupp, that would work against social isolation.
Or even every two weeks. Just an hour or two each time.
Something that takes you into positive contact with others.
But not something that adds big stress to your schedule.
Something that might take effort to go do, but not so much effort that you can't start the habit.
I think it'd be good for you. As a hedge against long-term isolation.
Meanwhile, any time you wanna talk about relationships w/pyjamas...YES!
:)
Hops
Thanks, Hopsie, I like that suggestion very much and think it's a good one to work with. As for the PJs - mine are calling to me right now! Sleep tight xxx
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Thanks, Bonesie,
That's probably similar to what's happened to me. I remember sitting in a car smoking weed after a particularly heavy night out - all sorts of drugs - and thinking "there must be more to life than this". And that was a long time ago now, the booze took a lot longer to get rid of completely - probably another ten years and, like you, I don't crave either of those things now. But I sort of don't crave anything else either? I feel an almost constant sense of just getting through the day and being kept sane by simple pleasures like a film or a book and some chocolate. I find interacting with people tiring and, a lot of the time, boring? I don't think that's normal? It's different online, the face to face stuff isn't there, it doesn't feel like you have to think about anything other than what you are saying, particularly when it's in an anonymous way like this (I know a lot of us know each other well online but in the real world we could walk past each other in the street and not have a clue). So forums I can cope with, I like to read, I have a whole wonderful life inside my head of how I'd like it to be and what I imagine 'life' should or could be like, but the reality is I've done the housework this morning, we'll go and do some shopping after lunch, I'll log on again after dinner and then I'll watch a film after my son has gone to bed. I can't even think of anyone I'd like to see or speak to, or anything I'd really like to do? I seem to have fallen in love with my pyjamas! They're very cute and snuggly :)
(((((((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I can relate to that. Not having a professional, who gets it, to talk to makes things difficult on my side of the Pond.
What I've started to do is some creative writing based on my imagination within the Star Trek Universe. I'm not planning on sharing it at this time....just writing for my own entertainment.
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Thanks, Bonesie,
That's probably similar to what's happened to me. I remember sitting in a car smoking weed after a particularly heavy night out - all sorts of drugs - and thinking "there must be more to life than this". And that was a long time ago now, the booze took a lot longer to get rid of completely - probably another ten years and, like you, I don't crave either of those things now. But I sort of don't crave anything else either? I feel an almost constant sense of just getting through the day and being kept sane by simple pleasures like a film or a book and some chocolate. I find interacting with people tiring and, a lot of the time, boring? I don't think that's normal? It's different online, the face to face stuff isn't there, it doesn't feel like you have to think about anything other than what you are saying, particularly when it's in an anonymous way like this (I know a lot of us know each other well online but in the real world we could walk past each other in the street and not have a clue). So forums I can cope with, I like to read, I have a whole wonderful life inside my head of how I'd like it to be and what I imagine 'life' should or could be like, but the reality is I've done the housework this morning, we'll go and do some shopping after lunch, I'll log on again after dinner and then I'll watch a film after my son has gone to bed. I can't even think of anyone I'd like to see or speak to, or anything I'd really like to do? I seem to have fallen in love with my pyjamas! They're very cute and snuggly :)
(((((((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I can relate to that. Not having a professional, who gets it, to talk to makes things difficult on my side of the Pond.
What I've started to do is some creative writing based on my imagination within the Star Trek Universe. I'm not planning on sharing it at this time....just writing for my own entertainment.
I think that's it, it's not being able to talk to people who understand - not just about the big things like this, but about other aspects of my life - my son's disability, being lonely, finding it hard to trust people, finding TV boring, not caring who wins X Factor - big things and small things. Sometimes I try and open up and I'm met with blank looks or silences - or those complete change of topics that people do when they really haven't a clue what to say next.
I love the idea of creative writing. I find I never finish anything - I feel incredibly enthusiastic for a couple of days and do loads and then leave it. I like the sound od something within Star Trek, though, I think it's nice to be writing just for your own sake without the pressure of trying to get it published or asking others to read it - just something for you to enjoy for yourself and not have to share :)
((((((((((((((((((((Bonesie))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Well, yes... I felt the same re: my purpose in life; my reason for being was to "be there" for others 24/7. And I felt that "who I was" would even morph into what it was someone else wanted to be... and that if I failed; well... I guess there are different levels of toxic shame.
I didn't DARE be or dream or like something that was "just for me" either. That was simply "bad" when it conflicted with "the plan" set out for me by NM. It "hurt" her too, when one of the things on the list - that I was supposed to be - was something SHE really wished she could do, and lo and behold, I could do it better. And then, she would ruin it for me, one way or another, with her jealousy and envy.
So me, I simply shrank myself down as small, un-noticeable (but still eagerly hoping to serve & please) as I could possibly be. I was able to not have needs - the normal human needs of a healthy connection to others, my own autonomy, a confident belief in my ability to do things and succeed at them. The only thing I "liked" - that was "approved" - that I stood up for myself was my art/creative stuff. And it served me well for a long time - as a way for me to express that crouched, hiding, feeling like I didn't deserve to breathe... "me" - without using those hurtful words. All the things I liked, that were like my Dad (mechanical things; competitive things) were verboten... unless I wanted to be "bad" just like him.
SIGH. I had to learn to give myself permission to do those things, even. And I'm still working on it when I have the energy; when I don't I hibernate. What I still have trouble with is recognizing when I have a real need; and engaging with others or directly asking to have that need met. I still have that huge discrepency on my emotional balance sheet: I've taken care of X number of people for so long... when is it going to be my turn? Can't people SEE... doesn't anyone KNOW... that I am in need: of a hug, some silly laughter or good times, knowing someone is there for me -- who's looking out for me? I'll be blunt: I get damn TIRED... trying to do/be "all that" for others and because the feelings and needs don't come out of my mouth as words (because of the taboo - I might offend, or "hurt" someone which is code for evoke their abuse at a more intense level)... well, the "normals" really don't know; aren't aware of the agony I'm in or that I'm about to collapse into a weepy, wimpering blob of abandonment. I had to LEARN and MASTER the ability to not telegraph my feelings to protect myself. I am extremely good at this now -- and it's a problem. Go figure.
For me to express a true emotionally charged feeling or to state a need -- was to wake up the "momster"... stealing attention away from HER feelings, HER entitlement, HER needs... and trust me, the way I was dealt with, only made me feel worse.
A lot of what I did in T, involved getting it through my thick head that I didn't have to "play by those rules" anymore. That I was allowed, entitled to the human nutrients that come from healthy relationships - connection, autonomy and competence. I did have to overcome my reluctance -- and extreme awkwardness -- about learning to ask to have my needs met.
Still a major work in progress -- but there IS progress. Just like you! Look how far you've come. So, it's your turn to need to be taken care of... OK. You're allowed. I said so.
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Thanks, Bonesie,
That's probably similar to what's happened to me. I remember sitting in a car smoking weed after a particularly heavy night out - all sorts of drugs - and thinking "there must be more to life than this". And that was a long time ago now, the booze took a lot longer to get rid of completely - probably another ten years and, like you, I don't crave either of those things now. But I sort of don't crave anything else either? I feel an almost constant sense of just getting through the day and being kept sane by simple pleasures like a film or a book and some chocolate. I find interacting with people tiring and, a lot of the time, boring? I don't think that's normal? It's different online, the face to face stuff isn't there, it doesn't feel like you have to think about anything other than what you are saying, particularly when it's in an anonymous way like this (I know a lot of us know each other well online but in the real world we could walk past each other in the street and not have a clue). So forums I can cope with, I like to read, I have a whole wonderful life inside my head of how I'd like it to be and what I imagine 'life' should or could be like, but the reality is I've done the housework this morning, we'll go and do some shopping after lunch, I'll log on again after dinner and then I'll watch a film after my son has gone to bed. I can't even think of anyone I'd like to see or speak to, or anything I'd really like to do? I seem to have fallen in love with my pyjamas! They're very cute and snuggly :)
(((((((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I can relate to that. Not having a professional, who gets it, to talk to makes things difficult on my side of the Pond.
What I've started to do is some creative writing based on my imagination within the Star Trek Universe. I'm not planning on sharing it at this time....just writing for my own entertainment.
I think that's it, it's not being able to talk to people who understand - not just about the big things like this, but about other aspects of my life - my son's disability, being lonely, finding it hard to trust people, finding TV boring, not caring who wins X Factor - big things and small things. Sometimes I try and open up and I'm met with blank looks or silences - or those complete change of topics that people do when they really haven't a clue what to say next.
I love the idea of creative writing. I find I never finish anything - I feel incredibly enthusiastic for a couple of days and do loads and then leave it. I like the sound od something within Star Trek, though, I think it's nice to be writing just for your own sake without the pressure of trying to get it published or asking others to read it - just something for you to enjoy for yourself and not have to share :)
((((((((((((((((((((Bonesie))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks, (((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))).
I have to admit, that I am lonely because no one around here GETS it.
With creative writing, the beauty of it is that I can write at my own pace.....let the story percolate for awhile, then go back to it when my imagination starts thinking of more details to add. I started writing my story back in June 2012 and just started dumping my issues into it.....it feels therapeutic. I don't know if there is any such thing as therapeutic creative writing.
BTW, I borrowed a FUN idea from Tribbles author, David Gerrold.....WRITERS REVENGE!!! Include your enemy in the story and treat them like a RED SHIRT or any way that feels right to you!!!! You could set your phaser on heavy stun or vaporize the !@#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
-
Well, yes... I felt the same re: my purpose in life; my reason for being was to "be there" for others 24/7. And I felt that "who I was" would even morph into what it was someone else wanted to be... and that if I failed; well... I guess there are different levels of toxic shame.
I didn't DARE be or dream or like something that was "just for me" either. That was simply "bad" when it conflicted with "the plan" set out for me by NM. It "hurt" her too, when one of the things on the list - that I was supposed to be - was something SHE really wished she could do, and lo and behold, I could do it better. And then, she would ruin it for me, one way or another, with her jealousy and envy.
So me, I simply shrank myself down as small, un-noticeable (but still eagerly hoping to serve & please) as I could possibly be. I was able to not have needs - the normal human needs of a healthy connection to others, my own autonomy, a confident belief in my ability to do things and succeed at them. The only thing I "liked" - that was "approved" - that I stood up for myself was my art/creative stuff. And it served me well for a long time - as a way for me to express that crouched, hiding, feeling like I didn't deserve to breathe... "me" - without using those hurtful words. All the things I liked, that were like my Dad (mechanical things; competitive things) were verboten... unless I wanted to be "bad" just like him.
SIGH. I had to learn to give myself permission to do those things, even. And I'm still working on it when I have the energy; when I don't I hibernate. What I still have trouble with is recognizing when I have a real need; and engaging with others or directly asking to have that need met. I still have that huge discrepency on my emotional balance sheet: I've taken care of X number of people for so long... when is it going to be my turn? Can't people SEE... doesn't anyone KNOW... that I am in need: of a hug, some silly laughter or good times, knowing someone is there for me -- who's looking out for me? I'll be blunt: I get damn TIRED... trying to do/be "all that" for others and because the feelings and needs don't come out of my mouth as words (because of the taboo - I might offend, or "hurt" someone which is code for evoke their abuse at a more intense level)... well, the "normals" really don't know; aren't aware of the agony I'm in or that I'm about to collapse into a weepy, wimpering blob of abandonment. I had to LEARN and MASTER the ability to not telegraph my feelings to protect myself. I am extremely good at this now -- and it's a problem. Go figure.
For me to express a true emotionally charged feeling or to state a need -- was to wake up the "momster"... stealing attention away from HER feelings, HER entitlement, HER needs... and trust me, the way I was dealt with, only made me feel worse.
A lot of what I did in T, involved getting it through my thick head that I didn't have to "play by those rules" anymore. That I was allowed, entitled to the human nutrients that come from healthy relationships - connection, autonomy and competence. I did have to overcome my reluctance -- and extreme awkwardness -- about learning to ask to have my needs met.
Still a major work in progress -- but there IS progress. Just like you! Look how far you've come. So, it's your turn to need to be taken care of... OK. You're allowed. I said so.
All of that sounds like you're writing about me, Phoenix! That's exactly how I feel, I just existed for the benefit of other people and getting them out of my life was a good thing, but I've not replaced the toxicity with much else, yet. A couple of things I've been thinking about over the weekend are my lack of creative hobbies - even though I've wanted for years to knit, sew, make jewellery, work for myself, travel - I've never really done anything like that. And I have a terrible anxiety in the mornings about the things that I haven't done and that I should have done - I seem to feel that the house should always be spotless, the jobs all done and sorted out, nothing left on show, meals prepared, everything organised.
What I realised this morning was that my mum was always very admiring of people who could do craft type stuff - it was something she was always terrible at (by her own admission) and something she wanted to be able to do. I'm wondering if that's why I've never gone down that free spirit, creative road - it would have been 'rubbing her nose in it' (as she would have seen it) and she's always been so critical of my myriad faults re tidiness, organisational skills etc.
As far as the house goes she always ran it like a military operation. The fridge and freezer were always full (to the point of hoarding, from my perspective), the house was always spotless, jobs were always completed, errands were organised in blocks so that she only went out once a day, saved on petrol, got everything done in one go and so on.
I'm looking around my house and it looks like no-one lives here. It's bland and drab, there's no colour, there's nothing of my personality in it. My clothes are the same, I yearn for bright, zingy, crazy clothes that say "look at me!". But of course I don't wear them.
So. My options are a well run efficient home, lacking in warmth, love, vitality and acceptance or a colourful world of trial and error, a place to relax, be safe from the world, let in the lovely people and keep out the not so lovely. I need, need, need to really push against her and let myself out. The little me inside feels so utterly abandoned and rejected - you're not good enough, Penny - you're a bad, ugly, evil girl and you deserve everything that happens to you. I'm the only person who can make that better, I'm starting to see that now.
-
Thanks, Bonesie,
That's probably similar to what's happened to me. I remember sitting in a car smoking weed after a particularly heavy night out - all sorts of drugs - and thinking "there must be more to life than this". And that was a long time ago now, the booze took a lot longer to get rid of completely - probably another ten years and, like you, I don't crave either of those things now. But I sort of don't crave anything else either? I feel an almost constant sense of just getting through the day and being kept sane by simple pleasures like a film or a book and some chocolate. I find interacting with people tiring and, a lot of the time, boring? I don't think that's normal? It's different online, the face to face stuff isn't there, it doesn't feel like you have to think about anything other than what you are saying, particularly when it's in an anonymous way like this (I know a lot of us know each other well online but in the real world we could walk past each other in the street and not have a clue). So forums I can cope with, I like to read, I have a whole wonderful life inside my head of how I'd like it to be and what I imagine 'life' should or could be like, but the reality is I've done the housework this morning, we'll go and do some shopping after lunch, I'll log on again after dinner and then I'll watch a film after my son has gone to bed. I can't even think of anyone I'd like to see or speak to, or anything I'd really like to do? I seem to have fallen in love with my pyjamas! They're very cute and snuggly :)
(((((((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I can relate to that. Not having a professional, who gets it, to talk to makes things difficult on my side of the Pond.
What I've started to do is some creative writing based on my imagination within the Star Trek Universe. I'm not planning on sharing it at this time....just writing for my own entertainment.
I think that's it, it's not being able to talk to people who understand - not just about the big things like this, but about other aspects of my life - my son's disability, being lonely, finding it hard to trust people, finding TV boring, not caring who wins X Factor - big things and small things. Sometimes I try and open up and I'm met with blank looks or silences - or those complete change of topics that people do when they really haven't a clue what to say next.
I love the idea of creative writing. I find I never finish anything - I feel incredibly enthusiastic for a couple of days and do loads and then leave it. I like the sound od something within Star Trek, though, I think it's nice to be writing just for your own sake without the pressure of trying to get it published or asking others to read it - just something for you to enjoy for yourself and not have to share :)
((((((((((((((((((((Bonesie))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks, (((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))).
I have to admit, that I am lonely because no one around here GETS it.
With creative writing, the beauty of it is that I can write at my own pace.....let the story percolate for awhile, then go back to it when my imagination starts thinking of more details to add. I started writing my story back in June 2012 and just started dumping my issues into it.....it feels therapeutic. I don't know if there is any such thing as therapeutic creative writing.
BTW, I borrowed a FUN idea from Tribbles author, David Gerrold.....WRITERS REVENGE!!! Include your enemy in the story and treat them like a RED SHIRT or any way that feels right to you!!!! You could set your phaser on heavy stun or vaporize the !@#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
Bonesie, I like the idea of getting your revenge via a story! What a great idea. It is lonely when no-one gets it, I feel like that a lot, too. At the same time I feel like I'm trying to hammer myself into a hole that just isn't made for me. Why should we be in holes? Why do we need so badly to fit in? I cut short a conversation with a 'friend' this morning - my new 8 minute rule - if there's no question from them about me then I'm not talking any longer. I feel like I'm interviewing people sometimes. Two way conversation - I need to practise!
Strangely, I've been to the doctor this morning and there may be a problem with my heart. Odd that that's come up within a couple of weeks of that letter about my mum's heart problems. I'm wondering if my aunties will badger my mum to be nice to me if I write and tell them that I'm ill? Somehow I doubt it (I'm not going to write to them, by the way, it's just a hypothetical) :)
((((((((((((((((((((((Bones)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
-
Tupp, you so don't deserve to be so lonely.
I send you much hope, that you'll find some positive
experiences (perhaps a structured group would be less
fraught to start, or small group activity) in 3-D.
Big hugs to you and your sore heart,
Hops
-
Thanks, Bonesie,
That's probably similar to what's happened to me. I remember sitting in a car smoking weed after a particularly heavy night out - all sorts of drugs - and thinking "there must be more to life than this". And that was a long time ago now, the booze took a lot longer to get rid of completely - probably another ten years and, like you, I don't crave either of those things now. But I sort of don't crave anything else either? I feel an almost constant sense of just getting through the day and being kept sane by simple pleasures like a film or a book and some chocolate. I find interacting with people tiring and, a lot of the time, boring? I don't think that's normal? It's different online, the face to face stuff isn't there, it doesn't feel like you have to think about anything other than what you are saying, particularly when it's in an anonymous way like this (I know a lot of us know each other well online but in the real world we could walk past each other in the street and not have a clue). So forums I can cope with, I like to read, I have a whole wonderful life inside my head of how I'd like it to be and what I imagine 'life' should or could be like, but the reality is I've done the housework this morning, we'll go and do some shopping after lunch, I'll log on again after dinner and then I'll watch a film after my son has gone to bed. I can't even think of anyone I'd like to see or speak to, or anything I'd really like to do? I seem to have fallen in love with my pyjamas! They're very cute and snuggly :)
(((((((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I can relate to that. Not having a professional, who gets it, to talk to makes things difficult on my side of the Pond.
What I've started to do is some creative writing based on my imagination within the Star Trek Universe. I'm not planning on sharing it at this time....just writing for my own entertainment.
I think that's it, it's not being able to talk to people who understand - not just about the big things like this, but about other aspects of my life - my son's disability, being lonely, finding it hard to trust people, finding TV boring, not caring who wins X Factor - big things and small things. Sometimes I try and open up and I'm met with blank looks or silences - or those complete change of topics that people do when they really haven't a clue what to say next.
I love the idea of creative writing. I find I never finish anything - I feel incredibly enthusiastic for a couple of days and do loads and then leave it. I like the sound od something within Star Trek, though, I think it's nice to be writing just for your own sake without the pressure of trying to get it published or asking others to read it - just something for you to enjoy for yourself and not have to share :)
((((((((((((((((((((Bonesie))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks, (((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))).
I have to admit, that I am lonely because no one around here GETS it.
With creative writing, the beauty of it is that I can write at my own pace.....let the story percolate for awhile, then go back to it when my imagination starts thinking of more details to add. I started writing my story back in June 2012 and just started dumping my issues into it.....it feels therapeutic. I don't know if there is any such thing as therapeutic creative writing.
BTW, I borrowed a FUN idea from Tribbles author, David Gerrold.....WRITERS REVENGE!!! Include your enemy in the story and treat them like a RED SHIRT or any way that feels right to you!!!! You could set your phaser on heavy stun or vaporize the !@#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
Bonesie, I like the idea of getting your revenge via a story! What a great idea. It is lonely when no-one gets it, I feel like that a lot, too. At the same time I feel like I'm trying to hammer myself into a hole that just isn't made for me. Why should we be in holes? Why do we need so badly to fit in? I cut short a conversation with a 'friend' this morning - my new 8 minute rule - if there's no question from them about me then I'm not talking any longer. I feel like I'm interviewing people sometimes. Two way conversation - I need to practise!
Strangely, I've been to the doctor this morning and there may be a problem with my heart. Odd that that's come up within a couple of weeks of that letter about my mum's heart problems. I'm wondering if my aunties will badger my mum to be nice to me if I write and tell them that I'm ill? Somehow I doubt it (I'm not going to write to them, by the way, it's just a hypothetical) :)
((((((((((((((((((((((Bones)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Please keep me posted about what the doctor says. I hope it won't be too bad.
I'll write more later. I'm dealing with the aftermath of a burst pipe in my home and everything feels like it's been tossed upside down.
-
BTW, I borrowed a FUN idea from Tribbles author, David Gerrold.....WRITERS REVENGE!!! Include your enemy in the story and treat them like a RED SHIRT
I'm doing this right now. I'm almost done with the first draft of my first novel, which has nothing to do with Ns, but has allowed me to insert a bit of revenge. All of my bad characters are being named (first names) after people who did me wrong. I doubt anyone but me will get the references, but that's okay. I feel a whole lot better for it.
-
BTW, I borrowed a FUN idea from Tribbles author, David Gerrold.....WRITERS REVENGE!!! Include your enemy in the story and treat them like a RED SHIRT
I'm doing this right now. I'm almost done with the first draft of my first novel, which has nothing to do with Ns, but has allowed me to insert a bit of revenge. All of my bad characters are being named (first names) after people who did me wrong. I doubt anyone but me will get the references, but that's okay. I feel a whole lot better for it.
I LOVE IT!!!!! After I Red-Shirted twits in my story, I felt so much better too!!! Maybe a group of us can get something FUN going! :)
Bones
-
Tupp, here's hoping it's a false alarm...
and that the "heart" that's hurt gets the care and attention it deserves.
-
Thank you everybody for your kind words, I am feeling pretty dreadful but that's partly because of my period which seems to be hell bent on killing me these days, they are going to check a few things out regarding that as well as it's getting a bit beyond a joke! Fortunately the doctor has been very nice and understanding and we all know how much that helps! Will hopefully know more in a few weeks.
I had another card from my auntie this morning, I am not sensing anything unpleasant on her part (other than an unwillingness to deal with the truth!), but the card just says thank you for the one I sent her and offering to meet with my mum and that my mum has been quite ill and in hospital a couple of times and that she hopes myself and my son are well. It does just read as a 'normal' interaction and she's not said anymore about the situation in general, although it does sound as if my mum is genuinely unwell after crying wolf so many times.
I've not heard from my mum, about which I am very relieved, and I've not heard from my sister (her henchlady) either (they usually work like a tag team). As ill as she is, my mum did find the strength to write something unpleasant to my step-sister. I'm wondering if she thinks this is my punishment, her ignoring me in her final days and if she thinks I will be left distraught that I never regained her approval or something like that? I try and think of a normal person's response and then think about hers and I wonder if in her mind she thinks I'll be devastated that she didn't contact me? I'm actually so relieved, I wish I'd never contacted any of them to be honest but I felt like I wanted to give myself a chance to see if I'd got it wrong about the family situation (now I don't think I did).
Anyway - I'm trying to focus on good things and looking after myself. Love Bonesie's idea of a group writing project where we all get to wreak revenge on those who have wronged us. Perhaps we could set up a thread for that to happen?
Thank you for all your thoughts and good wishes, it means a lot to know you care xxx
-
Hi Tupp,
Saw this and, thinking about friendships (though this one's about a different relationship), I wondered if it'd strike you too as a good thought.
I liked it for me, really had a moment of "ahhhh".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maddisen-k-krown/coping-with-rejection_b_2586145.html?utm_hp_ref=women&ir=Women (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maddisen-k-krown/coping-with-rejection_b_2586145.html?utm_hp_ref=women&ir=Women)
love
Hops
-
BTW, I borrowed a FUN idea from Tribbles author, David Gerrold.....WRITERS REVENGE!!! Include your enemy in the story and treat them like a RED SHIRT
I'm doing this right now. I'm almost done with the first draft of my first novel, which has nothing to do with Ns, but has allowed me to insert a bit of revenge. All of my bad characters are being named (first names) after people who did me wrong. I doubt anyone but me will get the references, but that's okay. I feel a whole lot better for it.
I LOVE IT!!!!! After I Red-Shirted twits in my story, I felt so much better too!!! Maybe a group of us can get something FUN going! :)
Bones
Should we start a creative thread here, on this Discussion Board, or elsewhere on this website?
-
Hi Bonesie,
Maybe in the What Help's? section? A sort of active help thread or something? If others agree and it's alright with Dr G? How are you doing? :)
Hopsie, thank you so much for that article. It's taken me a really long time to read it and digest it. At first I was very defensive about it. I'm not sure if that's the right word but I felt a bit like I was letting people off the hook if I just said to myself 'rejection is protection', like they were getting away with treating me badly and I wasn't doing anything about it. But the more I've read it and thought about it the more I've realised it's absolutely true. I've realised as well that some people I sort of monitor - how long it takes them to call me back, whether they visit me as much as I do them, whether or not they remember my birthday and so on, and with other people I don't pay any attention at all. I realised that there are some people I just don't really want in my life and they're the ones I monitor - it's like I can't just say no thanks, there has to be a reason for it and it has to be their fault. How silly! So I'm working on just letting those people go gracefully and concentrating on the people I like and want to be around. It's a really useful article, thanks for posting it. xx
-
Hi Bonesie,
Maybe in the What Help's? section? A sort of active help thread or something? If others agree and it's alright with Dr G? How are you doing? :)
Hopsie, thank you so much for that article. It's taken me a really long time to read it and digest it. At first I was very defensive about it. I'm not sure if that's the right word but I felt a bit like I was letting people off the hook if I just said to myself 'rejection is protection', like they were getting away with treating me badly and I wasn't doing anything about it. But the more I've read it and thought about it the more I've realised it's absolutely true. I've realised as well that some people I sort of monitor - how long it takes them to call me back, whether they visit me as much as I do them, whether or not they remember my birthday and so on, and with other people I don't pay any attention at all. I realised that there are some people I just don't really want in my life and they're the ones I monitor - it's like I can't just say no thanks, there has to be a reason for it and it has to be their fault. How silly! So I'm working on just letting those people go gracefully and concentrating on the people I like and want to be around. It's a really useful article, thanks for posting it. xx
Hi, Tupps! Great idea!!!! So far, I'm trying to hang in there one day at a time.
Bones
-
Hi Bonesie,
Well keep on hanging in there! What do you think it should be called (the story thread, I mean, not hanging in there!) xx
Just to update - I don't know any more about my heart yet as I've not had any more tests yet but I've been telling my 'real life' friends and sister and so far only one person has shown any kind of concern or offered to help. We were at swimming tonight and a couple of mums asked how I was. Usually I say 'fine' but I told them what's been going on and both offered to help out straight away and told me to ring them if I wanted to talk. Then another mum came over and said she couldn't help but overhear and to ring her if there was anything she could do. I have just been hanging out with the wrong people! It is really time for me to relegate those who don't care and don't offer and start spending more time with people who are kind enough to want to help - not just because that's what they do, but because I think that's a sign of a good person, generally speaking. Anyway that's my little update so far, hope everyone is doing okay xxx
-
Hi Bonesie,
Well keep on hanging in there! What do you think it should be called (the story thread, I mean, not hanging in there!) xx
Just to update - I don't know any more about my heart yet as I've not had any more tests yet but I've been telling my 'real life' friends and sister and so far only one person has shown any kind of concern or offered to help. We were at swimming tonight and a couple of mums asked how I was. Usually I say 'fine' but I told them what's been going on and both offered to help out straight away and told me to ring them if I wanted to talk. Then another mum came over and said she couldn't help but overhear and to ring her if there was anything she could do. I have just been hanging out with the wrong people! It is really time for me to relegate those who don't care and don't offer and start spending more time with people who are kind enough to want to help - not just because that's what they do, but because I think that's a sign of a good person, generally speaking. Anyway that's my little update so far, hope everyone is doing okay xxx
((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I'm trying in spite of the chaos on my end.
Maybe we can brainstorm what to call the story thread given that it would be therapeutic creative writing. Any ideas you want to toss out to get the process started?
I hear ya about realizing who your REAL friends are versus "fair weather" whatchamacallits. I've had to cut off the "fair weather" phonies when I finally realized they didn't give a rat's ass about anything else except themselves. They only time they condescended to acknowledge or speak to me was only when they wanted to USE me for THEIR CONVENIENCE. :P
-
Hi Bonesie,
Well keep on hanging in there! What do you think it should be called (the story thread, I mean, not hanging in there!) xx
Just to update - I don't know any more about my heart yet as I've not had any more tests yet but I've been telling my 'real life' friends and sister and so far only one person has shown any kind of concern or offered to help. We were at swimming tonight and a couple of mums asked how I was. Usually I say 'fine' but I told them what's been going on and both offered to help out straight away and told me to ring them if I wanted to talk. Then another mum came over and said she couldn't help but overhear and to ring her if there was anything she could do. I have just been hanging out with the wrong people! It is really time for me to relegate those who don't care and don't offer and start spending more time with people who are kind enough to want to help - not just because that's what they do, but because I think that's a sign of a good person, generally speaking. Anyway that's my little update so far, hope everyone is doing okay xxx
((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I'm trying in spite of the chaos on my end.
Maybe we can brainstorm what to call the story thread given that it would be therapeutic creative writing. Any ideas you want to toss out to get the process started?
I hear ya about realizing who your REAL friends are versus "fair weather" whatchamacallits. I've had to cut off the "fair weather" phonies when I finally realized they didn't give a rat's ass about anything else except themselves. They only time they condescended to acknowledge or speak to me was only when they wanted to USE me for THEIR CONVENIENCE. :P
Mmm, I don't know - Writer's Revenge? Fantasy Phamily? Perhaps we should start a new thread and get some ideas? I'm feeling a little foggy headed at the minute so not firing on all cylinders. What do you think?
I realised this morning that I build my whole life from the outside in - I construct what I think my life ought to be like rather than listening to myself and doing/being who I want. I'd noticed that a little bit before, but today it was a real light bulb thing. I don't think from inside my own head? I always start from the outside and work inwards. Weird.
-
Hi Bonesie,
Well keep on hanging in there! What do you think it should be called (the story thread, I mean, not hanging in there!) xx
Just to update - I don't know any more about my heart yet as I've not had any more tests yet but I've been telling my 'real life' friends and sister and so far only one person has shown any kind of concern or offered to help. We were at swimming tonight and a couple of mums asked how I was. Usually I say 'fine' but I told them what's been going on and both offered to help out straight away and told me to ring them if I wanted to talk. Then another mum came over and said she couldn't help but overhear and to ring her if there was anything she could do. I have just been hanging out with the wrong people! It is really time for me to relegate those who don't care and don't offer and start spending more time with people who are kind enough to want to help - not just because that's what they do, but because I think that's a sign of a good person, generally speaking. Anyway that's my little update so far, hope everyone is doing okay xxx
((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I'm trying in spite of the chaos on my end.
Maybe we can brainstorm what to call the story thread given that it would be therapeutic creative writing. Any ideas you want to toss out to get the process started?
I hear ya about realizing who your REAL friends are versus "fair weather" whatchamacallits. I've had to cut off the "fair weather" phonies when I finally realized they didn't give a rat's ass about anything else except themselves. They only time they condescended to acknowledge or speak to me was only when they wanted to USE me for THEIR CONVENIENCE. :P
Mmm, I don't know - Writer's Revenge? Fantasy Phamily? Perhaps we should start a new thread and get some ideas? I'm feeling a little foggy headed at the minute so not firing on all cylinders. What do you think?
I realised this morning that I build my whole life from the outside in - I construct what I think my life ought to be like rather than listening to myself and doing/being who I want. I'd noticed that a little bit before, but today it was a real light bulb thing. I don't think from inside my own head? I always start from the outside and work inwards. Weird.
I hear ya!
Jumping into the brainstorming, I'm going to toss out "The Pen is Mightier Than the Sword = The Writer's Revenge!" or "En Garde and Touche' Yon Twits!". I'll probably think of more ideas to toss around.
Bones
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Love them both but especially the one about twits! Might be a good one, focusing on humour - it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, they could be revenged upon in funny ways :) I like that notion :)
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Love them both but especially the one about twits! Might be a good one, focusing on humour - it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, they could be revenged upon in funny ways :) I like that notion :)
Yeah, like having revenge in a Monty Python type of way or style. :D
Bones