Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ales2 on June 11, 2013, 01:12:28 AM
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I feel silly posting this, but here goes. I think I understand it, but when I post here, I get really good, helpful answers that I had not considered and its very validating.
Anyway, so one thing left over my from T was that when I was wallowing in self pity, usually over things I missed, that I tried hard for but never got, a house, marriage and my own family, certain successful projects in my career that I worked for but never got anywhere with...anger with my NMom for having discouraged me in these things and me not being smart to see her undermining. I know that I sounded jealous of those people who had it and achieved it, kind of like a "have-not". Self pity, jealousy, disappointment with my own lack of achievement..etc.
I got weird feelings from him. Some was:
his judgment of me for wallowing in self pity, jealousy, disappointment;
some was like a cruel irony like I don't deserve it or are not capable of it anyway (which really hurt)
some was lack of compassion or validation for my feelings of failure and despair
some was just feeling awkward, hurt and taken advantage of, I opened up to him more than any other person, trusted him and I got nothing in return from him
I'm still hurt obviously (this was 2010 and 2011), and I dont get what he was trying to do. He made me feel much worse, and feel foolish for trusting him with my feelings, but I wonder if this was some exercise or strategy like he'd let me vent and I'd outgrow it? If so, that makes me mad because it was not helpful at all. I feel more and confused and hurt than when I went in.
Anyone have any thoughts on this --- i.e my feelings or his actions?
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Thats why I was there - to resolve my problems and work towards self improvement or achieving what I was capable of and that did not happen. Im confused - no guidance means no progress.
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Hi Ales,
I don't think I'm able to explain or guess as to why your T said or did things that made you feel that way, but I do think it showed he wasn't doing a very good job.
I had numerous sessions with my T about things I'd missed out on, people who'd taken advantage of my inability to say no, my lack of drive and ambition, my inability to finish projects and my, at times, seething jealousy of people who had the things I didn't. I hated that I couldn't feel happy for people who'd done well or just be glad that they had nice families.
My T was sympathetic, understanding, helped me understand how early childhood messages can carry over into your adult life (I don't deserve this, I'm not good enough to do this). We didn't work on it endlessly, it came up and went away again over a long period of time. I still find I have pangs over people who have an 'easy' life, although one thing I have realised is that a lot of people have a lot more problems than they let on or that can be seen from the outside.
So in short I think what your T was doing was inappropriate and unprofessional and I'm not suprised that it still bothers you. I have seen therapists in the past who have done more harm than good and it's a bit of a minefield out there. I hope you are able to find someone else you can talk things through with who will help you get back on your feet again? xxx
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One thing I've noticed regarding therapists.....not all of them GET IT when we attempt to discuss being a survivor of an N....especially an N-Womb-Donor. They can't seem to wrap their brains around the fact that those who gave birth do not automatically become mothers. THEY NEVER WERE MOTHERS!
Bones
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I think I relate, Ales...maybe because I'm both so long in the tooth and so, errr, challenged...I've seen a LOT of Ts since my 20s.
Now and then, there would be one who just could barely sit still when I really got going on my pain (or self-pity). I think the problem was that neither that person, nor I, in that period, could tell the difference. What is whining? What is grieving? What is wallowing? What is walking wounded?
Usually, when a deep vein of pain was simply tapped, and I sat stunned into grief, and showed that depth of sadness...compassion was what I got. But when I really didn't have anything new to say, and more to the point, didn't have any courage to do something different than recycle it...some Ts had more tolerance for that than others. When I was young I also talked really fast, nonstop, just pouring it out nearly breathlessly for 60 minutes...which must've been exhausring to sit with. (And some Ts in this world, actually dislike some of their clients. They're human too. And yet, they don't "recuse" themselves, so everybody sits there in misery until the client gives up and moves on. I think the most skilled T is able to help even someone they don't personally like very much, and can hide those feelings from the client, and still do the great beautiful work of helping that client get "unstuck.")
Some Ts are in the field because they love humanity (like Doc G). Others are in it because they are wounded themselves, searching for their own healing, and that's okay, who isn't...but some project their frustrations with their own wounds onto clients.
I think Bones has an important point about lack of comprehension about the sock-monkey feeling many children of Nmothers have.
I think finding someone new is important, and sharing with them exactly what you've written here. If there's a "click" of understanding, that new T may help you move forward.
love
Hops
PS--I think some problems are solved, and some evolve. And that it takes as long as it takes. But the finish line's foggy.
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I've only had one "t" in my adult life and used him several (11-12) years ago for emotional problems that I was having about the time i realized I had a drinking problem. In retrospect, his insights into alcoholism were less than advanced, but I got so much help from my 12 step program, that i overlooked his ineptitude. Of course, I now see the drinking as a symptom of my upbringing and Ns all around but was relieved of the drinking and moved on. Fast forward to two years ago when life events (non supportive spouse, death of N parents, job stress and failing vision ) brought me to my knees again. I naturally thought of him and scheduled with him. Again, he was dismissive of everything I said and it was apparent that he felt that all my problems were of my own making, I should not speak ill of dead and to quote him "You'll come out on top -- You always do!" This was as I sitting there exhibiting all the symptoms of PTSD! So I didn't have the mental acuity at the time to realize that he was "phoning it in," and possibly thought that I was a malingering baby who did not respect her parents. Fortunately for me, the guy unceremoniously dumped me not too long into my "treatment." Unfortunately, it caused me to mistrust and fear baring my soul to someone new and it has only been recently that I have been able to consider re-entering treatment to further work on my issues. I respected him and valued him and in the end he treated me like so many -- disrespected and voiceless again. He did not refer me to anyone else, just basically stopped taking my calls and would not schedule me. I was in a pretty bad way at the time: mood swings, outbursts, flashbacks to eye surgery, nightmares and poor functioning. (to name a few) It has taken me a year to even consider seeing anyone else, which I believe may have held back my recovery. I am doing a good bit better now and plan to try to get into some sort of support network so that I can be higher functioning than I am now. No job -- still unsupportive spouse, family problems with remaining Ns etc. I am hoping to be admitted into a group for PTSD but not sure yet and can't afford my own therapist at this point. A few of my friends were more help than the therapist but it only goes so far. Mostly, I have improved myself. In the process of my latest "illness," I was exposed to some real whiners who seemed to be "looping" around the same problems over and over and getting themselves into the same problems over and over. I have forgiven the guy -- maybe he hears the same things over and over and lacks the insight to separate whining from real trauma. Anyway, I whined awhile myself and felt that I had no choice at the time -- but the whiners taught me as much as he did. I am convinced that no drug or therapist is going to get me out of this problem or this series of problems. My symptoms have now diminished to where I can function a lot better than a year ago and I am ready to piece together the threads of my life and am seeing "what's what." I think the rejection by the T of me and what I was going through did hold me back a ways. I'm not saying it was rational, but his rejection of me made me feel very bad -- hurt pride, idea of having to repeat repeat repeat with someone new, disrespect -- Wah! Now I realize that he is just a guy and maybe good at helping some problems but hysterical middle aged woman with a market list of troubles is not his strength. Too bad for me. Upshot is that wallowing has only taken up my own time and I am just hoping that he is a better teacher (teaches at local univ.) than he is a clinician. I must have been in such turmoil that I was sending out cues to him that he misread. (?)
But i always come back here for comfort and insight -- and as always -- there is always something here for me. Love, Biddy
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Thanks everyone for your posts.
Two - appreciate your support -So in short I think what your T was doing was inappropriate and unprofessional and I'm not suprised that it still bothers you. I have seen therapists in the past who have done more harm than good
Part of it is that I dont understand, how he could sit across from me from ages 40-43, watching me break up with a guy I loved, knowing I want to be married and have children and really have nothing constructive or encouraging to say. He is sitting there watch my chances to have children dwindle and was not even helpful. I dont get that at all.
Bones - you are correct, he doesnt get the NWomb donors.
Hops "Usually, when a deep vein of pain was simply tapped, and I sat stunned into grief, and showed that depth of sadness...compassion was what I got. But when I really didn't have anything new to say, and more to the point, didn't have any courage to do something different than recycle it...some Ts had more tolerance for that than others. When I was young I also talked really fast, nonstop, just pouring it out nearly breathlessly for 60 minutes...which must've been exhausring to sit with. (And some Ts in this world, actually dislike some of their clients. They're human too. And yet, they don't "recuse" themselves, so everybody sits there in misery until the client gives up and moves on. I think the most skilled T is able to help even someone they don't personally like very much, and can hide those feelings from the client, and still do the great beautiful work of helping that client get "unstuck.") - you are correct with all of this, thanks.
I also agree with you Hops - and think that some problems cannot be solved, they are challenges to be managed over time. I think this is true with Ns. When first discovering Nism, I think I saw it as a problem I could solve, in some ways, the new understanding does solve a lot instantly, the lightbulb moment, where struggle ends and information gives new choices. But, after the initial a-ha moment, when the N remains part of your life, it can only be managed, not solved, unless we choose NC, and that is another set of challenges (i.e to be managed, not solved :).
Thanks everyone for your comments, they were very helpful! Instead of being frustrated by it, I can see it for what is probably was - bad therapy.
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Biddy - OK wow, our posts intersected!
Thank you so much - you are right on with what was (and is still happening) with me. Job loss, for me, overeating and overcharging, not being able to get job projects completed, low functioning in all areas except paying bills on time and keeping house/car/self clean and organized (Im OCD with that.) Outwardly, I look Ok, with an extra 15 pounds, but inwardly still struggling. Not a total mess, but struggling.
I can totally relate to having opened up, gotten nothing in return and then feeling more violated. The rejection does hurt, what I dont get is since these Ts know we are hurt by rejection, why reject us and our feelings further? Most times I can deal with rejection, in not getting a job or getting a date, but consistent rejection over long periods of time (10 year of dating, one boyfriend for one year) causes severe anxiety, hopelessness and despair. I wondered why he was not helpful with this part. Its traumatic for sure. Going in, explaining it, having it minimized when seeking help makes it worse.
And, yes, I felt like he thought my problems were of my own making too, and if it is, thanks! Thanks for labeling me as the failure. Labeling me, the patient, as the failure responsible entirely for my own issues means everyone around me is sane, my boss really is a nice guy instead of sexually harassing verbal abuser and that business partner who manipulated me, lied and stole a prospective 900k from me is not a thief and a liar, he is a highly decorated govt official after all! Great! I will alert the media! (SARCASM:)
Feeling rejected, voiceless, disrespected, and feeling my trust violated..you hit the nail on the head with your explanation. Thanks.
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My only thought can be that they let us vent, to where we don't feel helped (we feel helpless,despairing) and when we are ready to move on, we get over the hurt of their lack of help and not being rescued or encouraged, we encourage ourselves and learn not to bother others with out deepest and darkest thoughts since that only leads us further down the rabbit hole?
Is emotional self sufficiency what they are helping us develop?
ughhhh... not sure but have to wonder.
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One last thing about holding the patient responsible for failures. I get it - personal responsibility is key with all aspects of life, not going to get an argument from me here. BUT. And this BUT is very important with Therapy. Personal responsibility is also based on being able to make good sound decisions. If I am being manipulated by a boyfriend, friend, neighbor, boss even on a benign level, how can one take responsibility aside from their responses in the situation? Is it not the goal of therapy to aid in making good decisions and not being blind? Wouldnt the T at least help the patient question themselves in a respectful way? I can pick and choose, sure, but cant choose well if I cant see the person for what they are. If therapy promotes the "its all good" mentality, how can someone avoid negativity (of varying kinds, including bad therapists!) .
And, what happens when I just cant see the same mistake I am making? Is it not the need of therapy for the T to help me see past my own blind spots? I liked Dr. G's article where he talks about people making the same choice over and over again, not consciously, but unconsciously choosing people who help them heal. If Dr. G told me no apples, I would choose the orange. But what if everything is all packaged the same and I cant tell the orange from the apple until I bite into it? Then the only choice is to walk away when you see it for what it is, which is what I do anyway, repetitievly in complete frustration.
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Biddy - one more thing - what your therapist did - dismissing your feelings and assuming you are a malingering baby was awful! So sorry you went through that.
It was also unprofessional and cruel to stop taking calls without BOTH explanation and referral. If he cant help you, he should HELP by referring you to someone who can.
I can totally relate to not be able to trust another therapist. Your experience sounds worse than mine. With me, I sometimes think if I were to go back and try to "work it out with him" I would only be lining his pockets and getting nothing more than frustration in return. Not wise in my book.
Anyway ((((((Biddy)))))))
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Sorry I'm late here... but I see another possibility. You touched on it briefly, Ales... but didn't quite get to absorbing the whole enchilada.
When we have feelings, what changes those?
How do we learn to let things go -- and what on earth DOES this mean, "let it go", existentially?
When we have the same crappy feeling, over & over, and over & over until it seems like dogma, reality, and the doomed fate of our lives... what is that trying to tell us?
There are different approaches to T. And within those disciplines, there's sort of a personal style to each T.
My T would let me tell my story -- until I got to one of those painful brick walls, and then simply let me FEEL the feelings and be there for me. Self-pity, in my case, was an avoidance technique for grieving my very real emotional losses. :shrug: In a way, it was functionally dysfunctional... my logic, if you can call it that, was because NO ONE ELSE cared, by indulging in self-pity I could at least acknowledge the existence of the fact that caring SHOULD exist in the world and that I was a candidate to be cared about.
We spent a couple years doing this. It felt like years, anyway. I had to get to know this from the inside, be able to see it from the outside like it was someone else's problem, puzzle over the alternatives... try some things on for size, see if they fit... and then one day - the bubble just popped. And the world was vibrant, fascinating, and charming... colors were brighter... birds were happy... and I was walking about 6 inches above the ground giddy-happy. (That wears off; life happens...)
The "work" that we did was NOT her guiding me to "do this", "feel that", "think this"... the work was simply her giving me her time and attention - and CARING - while I continued to suffer through really feeling my grief, my aloneness in my experiences of the past, until I'd REALLY let myself feel it - and realize, nope; I didn't "fall apart" into a blathering idiot or go crazy from it. It sounds so simple, doesn't it?
It was really hard work, for me. It must've been frustrating for her because my creative streak meant I was never at a loss for some evasive avoidance scheme. She had to repeat the above quite a few times, before I couldn't avoid the obvious anymore. The obvious is:
Life isn't always fair.
Some of us have more shit to walk through than others; but we all got our own shit.
Shit washes off.
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One of the reasons, I think, that there are different kinds of therapy is because people are all so different. This (above) worked for me. Sounds like this T you described, and I would've hit it off. But it didn't work for YOU. That time, anyway. Maybe another time, and you'd be ready to face the worst of the feeling - feel it - and get to the point, where you'd know what to do on your own and be able to do it, without getting "stuck" on "repeat" of it. I took breaks; went back and then kept going. I must've learned SOMETHING, because even this horrible thing with my D and grandsons, as much as it triggers my old stuff - and feeling bad for them, too - is "do-able"... and every once in awhile, I can even find good, legitimate ways to help. Oh - and I still have my old quirks and my old avoidance techniques are still hard-wired into my brain.
But I can "see" it better now... and shift gears or change direction.
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There was a grief group that I went to a couple of winters ago.
The therapist who organized it was big on people having their experiences and ALSO he did stop people and cut people off with certain things because he said there were certain cycles that people get caught in that just keep people stuck.
Not sure if that has any relation to what you have stated.
It sounds mainly like you really need to have somebody understand your experiences.
Maybe the therapist is not the best match for you...
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Okay, so I called another therapist today. Published author. Met her once at a book signing and lecture. Very well known had a radio/tv show. The session rate is too expensive for me.
I said that I was stuck, even though I know what to do (look for job, date) but can't seem to do it on my own. I have an inertia and procrastination problem I hope to solve. I need a kick in the pants essentially. I have lost my confidence and even though I know I am worthy in ways I did not before, Ive lost my mojo and drive. I need to get it back. In the book, she has done work with people with similar problems.
My concerns are the following:
1) too expensive, money better spent on other things (i.e i have no income)
2) my default N wound - is that there is a "mental block" (my N mother told this to my friends mother at lunch when I was 8 years old, if you can believe that), something wrong with me that needs to be solved/fixed/ changed/eliminated - this is what I believed all my life, its not true, I have a self esteem and worthiness/assertiveness problem that is the result of this N wound. Basically, my N wound is a LIE. All of them are. Focusing on that LIE kept me from living my life productively and kept me as a people pleaser.
3) Ill be a wounded child, a malingering baby - when I need to grow up and be more emotionally self sufficient, ie support myself emotionally, the therapist can tell me that, but of course, I'll be in therapy continuiing to be a baby, if that makes sense.
4) My fears are that the job search is more "loaded" there are more issues attached to it this time - from 23-40, when I was financially indepdent, I attracted N bosses and bullies, not knowing why. When I got laid off the last time, thats when my life unraveled, I went through a year on unemployment and used another 20k in savings. At some point, I asked my N mother for $$$ and then several months later discovered she's a N. So, I needed her money before I knew what a huge mistake I was making. So, this tiem aroudn, getting a job, is also severing ties with her and will have to be for me to move on enough.
So, here I am. Not sure I want to start up therapy again. A little afraid of the expense, and not hearing anything I dont know already. I wish I could morph back into the old me, the hard working independent one, I was like that once before and was very successful in some way, just not now. And, I want to maintain the depth of what I have learned and before I was little more aloof and insecure that was hidden behind the hard work.
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My pet peeve with therapists is this:
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Blaming people, life or your family is like wearing cement boots swimming & wondering why your drowning?? Own your life no-one else can!
Written by my former therapist on his twitter page. He doesn't seem to understand the negative conditioning and coping patterns that come from NMothers...except, guess what, he wrote a book about it. Hard to believe that he can be this insensitive. As a therapist, his job is to help his patients understand their maladaptive coping patterns from NMoms that interfere with them taking full responsibility for their life. No wonder therapy with him did not work out.
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Ales2 - years ago I remembered an aunt complaining about my behaviour to another adult by saying, "She is just trying to get attention". When this memory flashed back I saw in an instant that I needed attention.
I don't know if those of us with N parents are so different from others with their own wounds but the need for being hear, affirmed, acknowledged and loved is huge. From my current perspective, knowing what I need and what I would give were I a therapist, Ts should reflect back the pain we are in and help us see how the absence of the love and empathy we needed plays into a particular struggle.
Here you are pointing to something your mother said about you when you were 8. You can get right to that memory and see its roll in part of this block but as children we often needed affirmation and acknowledgement of what we witnessed particularly when it goes against human nature. N parents actions are mostly a violation of human nature and it leaves the child struggling to put these harmful actions into order. So often we put them in order in favor of the parent rather than the child and we are left with a lifetime need to correct it.
What your mother said was wrong. It was unnatural. Most mothers want and long for the best for their children and will fight to the death for it. That little 8 year old needed someone to fight for her and when she reappeared to your therapist a over a year ago your therapist should have fought for her then. She needed someone to stand up for her.
I have found that many therapists come to the profession to dal with their own wounds. Some never do and are easily triggered by their clients. It is a very bad time for the client as it can be a reaffirmation of the original wound making it ever so much more entrenched.
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Hi Ales,
Found myself re-reading the whole thread and something popped out to me,
hope it might be helpful.
I got weird feelings from him. Some was:
his judgment of me for wallowing in self pity, jealousy, disappointment;
some was like a cruel irony like I don't deserve it or are not capable of it anyway (which really hurt)
some was lack of compassion or validation for my feelings of failure and despair
some was just feeling awkward, hurt and taken advantage of, I opened up to him more than any other person, trusted him and I got nothing in return from him
It occurred to me that the ones I've bolded...were feelings you ascribed to him. The rest are your own.
But for those you ascribed to him...I found myself thinking: That would be reading his mind. Assuming that you know exactly what he was thinking or feeling.
So I wonder if in your sensitivity to what you assume or what you interpreted from facial expression...that you might be having this crushing disappointment
or anger at Ts, based on false information?
I know that with my Nmother, because she was kind of emotionally blank, I was forever ascribing feelings and intention to her, and now, I believe that half
the time I was flat-out wrong, or simply making it up. Because in my own inner narrative, I NEEDED explanations for what wasn't there.
If your experience was anything like that, I wonder if you might possibly be chronically angry at Ts for not being expert, competent, ethical or reliable,
because you're "reading tea leaves" and assuming a lot of negativity present in them that might not really be there?
If a T SAYS to you things that make very clear they DO feel all those feelings/judgments you are saying you "pick up" or "get" from them, then I
take this all back.
But if they don't, I wonder if it might help to ask yourself: 'Is it possible that my fear is driving me to reject them before they hurt me like she did?'
xo
Hops
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GS- Thanks for your kind words and understanding there. You bring up a good point about whether validation is needed for the therapist to be good at his job, and I agree with Dr. G here in one of his essays where he says the therapuetic relationship with the T is what helps the voiceless overcome their invalidation and wounding. Bad therapy tends to ignore that. In my case, the frustration is that the T is/ws an expert with NMothers, so he SHOULD know better.
But, HOPS, also brings up a good point, thats is possible I assigned meaning where there is none, or chose an unintended meaning. She could be right about that and in a couple of cases, I might agree. Fair enough, a helpful lesson for me not to be oversensitive, which brings me to my next point. One of the denials and invalidations of Nism, is "you made that up/it never occurred" and "you are oversensitive". I know that was not Hops intention here, but it also does remind me of the invalidation from earlier incidents.
Next, the point about seeing negativity when its not there and having a fear that drives me to reject are too good things to be aware of. I spent considerable time with him and I did complain about my lack of progress several times. This is a T who has a "moving on", lose the baggage checklist in his book, but never took me through the process and I was floundering. When I complained his answer was to book to more appointments, there was no discussion of alternate plans or therapies (besides medications, which I tried and voila, they did not work.)
The fear one I will think about. Fear is not really my thing, but I will get back to you on that one.
Thanks all for the input very helpful.
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My pet peeve with therapists is this:
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Blaming people, life or your family is like wearing cement boots swimming & wondering why your drowning?? Own your life no-one else can!
Written by my former therapist on his twitter page. He doesn't seem to understand the negative conditioning and coping patterns that come from NMothers...except, guess what, he wrote a book about it. Hard to believe that he can be this insensitive. As a therapist, his job is to help his patients understand their maladaptive coping patterns from NMoms that interfere with them taking full responsibility for their life. No wonder therapy with him did not work out.
Hi Ales,
Something I find irksome with self help books and/or motivational messages (or messages on Twitter, Facebook, etc) is that they're one dimensional and, as such, can be interpreted in different ways. Part of what he says rings very true with me - it is your life, you do need to own it, it won't change unless you do, and so on and so forth. But part of that, for many people, is working through things that have happened in the past and truly laying the blame for someone else's actions at that person's feet, rather than thinking or feeling that something we did was to blame for that happening (and we all know what that's like!).
In a later post you mention him supposedly being an expert in NMothers and that he should know better. I think someone can be an 'expert' on an intellectual level - but not really understand or feel it all on an emotional level. Personally I find the two are very different things and the two best therapists I've ever seen had been through similar experiences to me in their own lives (as I found out much later on) and therefore really understood a lot of things that I still didn't at that point. And that was really important for me, having people who could actually name and label feelings and emotions for me. We never talked about anything like that when I was a child, so I found I just couldn't talk about feelings at all, or even identify them - I'd never learnt how to. Those women taught me how to do that.
Again, on a personal level, I found having female therapists incredibly good, because they gave me a lot of the mothering that I'd never had. They genuinely cared about their clients, they were kind, patient, compassionate and, most importantly, very wise. They knew when to push a little and when to pull back. They knew when I needed space and when I needed to be encouraged. They encouraged my anger - something I'd been shamed for my whole life and had never expressed. I'll never forget an afternoon with one of them, a lady in her sixties who was very polite and well spoken. We were talking about my step-dad and how he used to walk into my room whenever he wanted, regardless of whether I was dressed or not. I'd never dared say a word to him about it when I was a teenager and I found that in counselling I still couldn't speak. She said "what do you want to do" and I barely whispered "I don't want him to come in". And she said "I give you permission to slam the door in his face and tell that bastard to f**k off!". It was wonderful - it was what I wished my mum had done for all those years when she just ignored it.
I don't think this therapist sounds like a good one for you. If I were you I'd avoid his Twitter page (and anything else he might be on) and maybe use what didn't work with him as a sort of check list of things to look out for if you ever do go into therapy again - or even if you just chat to people about things sometimes. I have learnt to just trust my instincts now - there are some people I don't feel comfortable sharing with so I don't anymore. I used to feel obliged to answer questions, even if they were inappropriate, now I'm learning to deflect and/or ignore them.
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Quote
Blaming people, life or your family is like wearing cement boots swimming & wondering why your drowning?? Own your life no-one else can!
There may be truth in this quote, but its simplistic and somewhat brutal, it skips a needed process of claiming and re-allocating responsibility.
I have found this a very important subject, the 'allocation of responsibility'. The simplest way I've ever heard it put is: "We are not responsible for our wounds, but we are responsible for our recovery".
At the same time, I have found that part of recovery is looking accurately at what happened, that includes the roles that people played. With an Nmum, I went thro many years of utter disgust and aversion and anger with her. In recovery I learnd techniques for detachment, I could then manage myself around her. The damage done by that dynamic has been stupendous. I see the whole thing with a sort of urgent sadness now.
I have come to understand the whole thing about the developmental arrest and the N thing. But taking responsibility for my life, and allocating it to others for what is theirs is still a learning process, to how to handle all that, and I still feel I'm at baby steps. And still feel out of control over some of my reflex tendencies to shut down on myself. (and regret laterthe moments I missed to express something). This is a central growth issue for me.