Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on February 19, 2014, 04:51:23 PM
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Things have been generally better with the Production-Manager-Who-Hates-Me in the last year. Nboss, once the hostility toward me began to affect him too,
even sent PMan to therapy for a while. He backed off. Nboss kept telling me he was "fixed now" but I knew that level of hatred was hardwired, and about
his mother, and women in general, not about me. (He has been aggressive and critical and sabotaging of me from the moment we met 7 years ago, without
even knowing me. I think he has deep, primal, old rage (mother stuff)...AND, I came in to work closely with Nboss (my job) while PMan had been the golden boy.
Fast-forward. Nboss was away recently for an unusually long time. PMan began to rumble. By the time Nboss returned, there'd been a series of email attacks
on me (CC'd to the entire senior staff). PMan referred to me over the course of a few hours--to others--passive-aggressive, intimidating, adolescent, unprofessional,
false claims, bad communication, etc.) He tried to rally everyone, demanded a public meeting where we'd "deal with Hops' communication problem." His emails
are full of digs and slams and character attacks, and any factual question gets twisted and interpreted by him in a really creepy, destructive way. Nboss has
told him before that these attacks on me are destructive, but there's never any real consequence. (Nboss is completely dependent on him for production,
so he never sets consequences. For me, Nboss views me as...female, and so never has valued my skills similarly, though truthfully, he is just as
dependent on my work for the company to succeed. My new colleagues, thank god, respect and support me. All the backbiting hasn't been contagious to them.)
Nboss heard me out and refused to allow it to be on senior team meeting agenda. But tomorrow I have to meet alone with Nboss and PMan, while Nboss
basically tells us "I want you to have mutual trust and respect." (He reads a management guru who has this theme.) I will be okay but haven't been
sleeping and my muscles are very tense. Reminds me of that "beating under the stairs" feeling I had thru childhood due to my brother's abuse. And this
IS abuse, even if only verbal.
Anyway, it's the same old toxic cycle. My challenge to myself is to find deep inner calm for the meeting, conduct myself with dignity and fairness regardless of
PMan provocation or Nboss's guru theater or condescension. But it's hard. How do I pretend to trust and respect someone who has been so frighteningly
hateful to me for seven years?
Just thought I'd post this to request some little tsunamis at 11amEST. Silly agnostic me, I do value that a lot.
love and thanks for listening,
Hops
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Hi Hops,
If only work could be neutral and void of personal "stuff"
Ughhhh... oh no that sounds like hell. The only some what positive side about the public emails is that at least it's not secretive and subversive sabotage.
OMG that would stress me out.
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That's true, Boat. (You DO know you're busted, right? Green Bean?) :lol:
It's not subtle and it's very public because I think he's unaware of how transparent he is -- it's more like being dragged into a boxing ring. The good thing is that as years have gone by, others have picked up on how warped this stuff is. I'm actually sorry for him when I'm not under direct attack. And, Nboss doesn't indulge/enable him quite as much as he used to, though he's never shown leadership in really stopping it for good (like, with consequences). Nboss told me yesterday that he "can't stop it."
One almost-fascinating thing about it has been that I have never seen so open and obvious a case of projection. This guy is seething away in a warehouse writing long, rambling emails full of accusations that appear to me anyway (and to at least 2 colleagues) to be full of charges that describe HIM. (Adolescent, unprofessional, drama, etc...). He sets the entire leadership including his boss and me into a tizzy, emergency meetings are called, my work is yanked off course, I lose focus, it upsets everything and aftereffects last for weeks.
I hope this round is settled quickly. Haven't slept well and my muscles have been so taut they spasm. But I'll get through it.
Thanks for reading, Boat,
xo
Hops
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Sending oceans of soothing light your way, Hopsie, and 'Back off, Sunbeam' vibes to that little man. Hope they get to you before your meeting (not sure of the time difference) but if not please know that there are a number of people on this board who are always in my thoughts and you are one of them xx
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Yah, of course I read. Situation sucks :( Tell us how it all goes
I've been taking half of a generic allergy pill to help me sleep. Diphenhydramine or something like that. They put it in sleep aids. Going to take one right now.
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Though I've been lucky and have never been raped nor beaten with fists in my life, to me...this dynamic when it flares causes me to think of those things. It is extremely intimidating and even strikes me as a bit...evil.
Nboss just wants to quash it. He made us both sit in a tight circle with him, nearly knee to knee, and guided us through a "mediation" (no choice--close eyes--listen to boss tell you what to do with your body, your thoughts, etc) and y'all know how much I love THAT). Because it is not voluntary and he is using his power to force it, that feels like a psychological invasion to me, intensely.
I tried to breathe in compassion and breathe out peace, etc. Was relaxed and composed. But when PMan spoke, I felt that nothing was different...he puts on a "Bambi eyes" act in front of Nboss. It is honestly a horrible feeling.
And I guess that just means the old cycle is recurring and I need to focus on the fact that I am a strong, adult woman with the power to say No. I will never again reply or participate in an email chain with PMan where his aggression and hostility are building. If he does it again my hope is I'll be able to quickly respond: "Hi PMan, I would like to have a conversation with you or help answer your questions. Please give me a call so we can speak one on one. Thank you."
I guess I'll handle it that way. And then, after writing something like that, I'll just stop responding. Maybe even block his email for a while until it passes.
It is a sick feeling. And the way he CC'd everyone he could think of reminded me so much of being bullied as a child. There's no mistaking it.
Last night I could feel some chest pain, it's hard to let go of it. But I am strong and I will not allow him to bring me down.
Hops
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Hops:
Your job sounds like opportunity after opportunity to resolve every pd issue you ever had, and never had, IMO.
::shaking head::
I'm late on this, but sending you all the strength, stoicism, and appropriate Amazonian weapons of clever assertiveness I can lend to the cause.
lighter
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gosh, doing a guided meditation doesn't identify the actions/behaviors that could be changed in order to change the scenario
yah it's not very professional to do a guided meditation pretty quacko-whacko
I used to take yoga classes where the instructor would keep talking non-stop during guided meditations and it annoyed the heck out of me. so yah I get what you mean
it's not guided meditation> instead invasion doesn't change a thing
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Thanks Boat, Tupp, Lighter. Means a lot to have some company to vent it all with.
Doing better, moving through it. Today I work with just one other, big ole country lady
who loves my pooch (so I take pooch along). It'll be a quiet day. My goal is to get my
desk tidied up and make a priority list of tasks for the next month. (My desk is a shambles.)
I recorded 3 TV spots yesterday. That's fun. I write the script, pull the images together,
then go to the studio and record the voiceover with the engineer. Now and then my
friends will say, I heard your voice coming from the television! It's funny. My voice
used to be all female Ted Willliams [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cl_fMxQCTw]
but with age (and allergies), it's getting faintly crackly -- a wee subtle rasp. So every
time I broadcast, I cross my fingers it'll hold out a while longer since it's a good skill
to market.
Huh. I said "market." That sounds like someone who's subconsciously interested in
WORKING AT A GOL-DARN DIFFERENT PLACE, doesn't it?
I do have support at work and it's from the future CEO of the place, so I know that
if I hang in there and stand up for myself...one day, there may be a better situation.
I'm beginning to calm down. I think this round felt worse in a way because PMan had
not come after me for a year. I had dropped my guard and when he attacked it was
more painful and shocking -- had a more traumatic effect since I'd started to think
he wouldn't ever bully me again. Whoooooops.
Off to get ready and thank you again for the support...must get tedious when I
recycle the same issues on here!
love
Hops
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:-)
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Never tedious, Hops, I think I'd have blown at him by now, he sounds awful. Is it a small company? I used to work for a small firm and it was sooooo toxic, way more than larger firms I'd worked for because, I think, it was much more like a family that you couldn't get away from (in the big firm people used to nod and say hello but other than that I used to go in, do my typing and then go home. I preferred that!).
I hope he vanishes somewhere soon, he sounds like he needs his door blocking with a stack of self help books that he has to read before he can come back in the building :)
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That's perceptive, Tupp. You're right--28 employees. It's half family-owned (51% Nboss) but eventually will be all employee owned. That's one reason I hang in (the other is my age--would be very hard to find a replacement job with a prayer of retirement). Before he started the business, Nboss' family was an ashram with a corrupt guru. He left the ashram but brought the mind-games with him.
He really threw me under the bus letting Pman's abusiveness slide again -- in fact this time, he blamed me nearly overtly. Sent around a response saying we all can agree that the "commuication problem" began when I joined the company. Neutrally, that timeline is true but only in the sense that when I arrived, Pman hated me on sight and put me in his cross-hairs. Letting Nboss minimize it as a "communication problem" is mentioned in the literature as a classic technique. Euphemisms for emotional abuse, and also -- forcing the target to feel identified as "half the problem." I felt traumatized in the "meeting." That turned out to be a forced meditation session led by Nboss, crooning messages about how much we love the company, while I had to sit nearly knee with the two of them. It was followed by instructions to speak only of the present moment with no reference to anything past, and not to use any "labels." What that meant was--I could not talk about what I'd experienced nor say, I have been bullied. He silenced me. At the end of the meeting Pman gave a tiny smirk. I read it as, "Got away with it again, ha."
I realized that Nboss just plain loves Pman and is never going to stop the bullying. I have choices:
--commit to finding another job, any job, and get out asap--forfeit my company shares (major economic consequences for me)
--hang in there because there's a high possibility that when Nboss does retire, he'll choose my good colleague as CEO. That colleague is smart, reasonable, and my friend. He can't take on my battle in this moment, because he's in the position of being "tested" as a competitor against Pman for the eventual successor (CEO) position. It's extremely obvious Pman would make a lousy CEO, but Nboss is going through the motions of considering them both anyway because he has to secure Pman's ongoing adoration. (N-supply.)
Last night, because I had to speak up for myself in some way, I sent Nboss a memo that briefly reviewed the history of this behavior and failed attempts to stem it, and a proposal that we add anti-bulling policy language to our employee manual. I pointed out the many lost days over the years we'd spent in a variety of efforts and all had failed. I stated that telling a bullying target they may not speak of their experience, or forcing them to participate in intimate meetings or exercises with the bully is blaming the victim and continuing an atmosphere of abuse tolerance. I included links to literature about workplace bullying.
He will likely dismiss it (and be angry with me). At the same time, by sending it, I've put him on notice that I can speak, and that I believe it is what it is. The obligation is on him, not me, to correct these conditions. He won't -- but what's different from years ago is that I now have allies (my two teammates, at the least). As enmeshed as he is with Pman, I don't think Nboss wants to lose me either.
He probably has some fears that I will "blow the whistle" and he knows I can write. So, perhaps I have a little more power than I think. I am assuming that as I get older he will continue to marginalize me. And his misogyny is leaking out a lot more these days. BUT. Young Gman (for "good man"--my MBA colleague who will likely become CEO) is still there. And Nboss needs him more than Pman, really. With allies like Gman and our Art Director, both of whom have validated and supported me (privately, but I do not blame them, they have to protect their own positions too) ... I am not as lone in the situation as I was for the first 5 years.
I am very sick of this cycle. And it does feel like PTSD when it happens. On the other hand, I am also stronger in ways. I do push back. I do advocate for what is right as best I can.
I hate the stress and adrenalin and trauma of having to re-fight this fight. The literature also says, once you're targeted and it's clear a boss won't fix it...you may as well leave. But I don't have that luxury.
So, on it goes. Thanks for listening.
love
Hops
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Hops:
I'm so glad you have allies who can help you feel less alone when you're being pulled under the stairs..... ((((Hops.))))
You're still getting pulled under the stairs....
but at least there are witnesses who aren't cheering, or pretending it didn't happen, kwim?
lighter
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Yah stressful as all heck. Sigh. Not sure what to say.
There is not much to do except to get your biotch on and tell him to shut it.
It's a messed up game, where you have to continue to be polite and cordial and productive etc. and they keep going around with the non-sense.
I think these situations mainly get resolved by dirty means not that it's your style or an option for you though war is war.
Good luck with whatever happens.
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Hops:
I can't understand how people could be anything but kind to you. No kidding. it just goes to show it does not matter how nice you are and how insightful and well read etc there are going to be people who would delight in sinking your boat.
I don't think there is anything you can do to change those rascals and thieves ( energy suckers) except leave and you can't always do that. Protect yourself somehow so you don't get chest pains. No one cares at work if you die at your desk. It is just " Next please" for them.
I gave up working and went on disability because of PTSD. It was fully supported by my psychiatrist. I felt bad about this but it allowed me to get back to myself. And be content again.
There is nothing you can do about your daughter. Although it seems contrary to nature and being a mom to let go it is ok to do this and see what happens. You can still love her and it will still help but you don't deserve to stand around and get beaten up. Either verbally, financially, emotionally et al. There is a bright spark in you and such a poet. You can go to dark places but you are a torch bearer.
I will never forget how much your support helped me.
Sea storm
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what ^ she ^ said X 2
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Thank you, Sea and Boat (nice pair!)--
I really appreciate that so much, can't express.
It's just yucky. Now Nboss wants another meeeting where we peel our chests open so he can poke his finger in and play with our psyches. He is so emotionally untrustworthy himself (insisting on playing therapist-guru though he's the employer) that I feel ghastly-vulnerable. I am resisting the meeting. He says it's "optional" but I'm certain he will label me "uncooperative" or "not a team player" if I decline. It just feeds the game if I do, and if I don't.
I'm working on an email to decline with sound reasons. He purportedly "respects vulnerability." We have company values like "empathy" and "respect." But I, and fortunately Gman, know it's utterly insincere. He loves posting them because it makes him/the company look good. But his private behavior shows that it's just a pretense.
Ick
Ick
Ick
Means a lot to vent on here and get support...thank you thank you!
love
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Good to vent. Go ahead and let er rip. Trust your instincts on this one for sure. Your boss is from the " here kitty, kittyl....... nice little bowl of cream for you...... Whump! " school of leadership.
How to survive this....... Big heart protectors. Looking back I was such an easy prey. I would get triggered and then show my vulnerability and pain and look kind of crazy to everyone I am aure. i am a good actress and can look calm and composed but the person in authority being a narcissist really bugged me. So he targetted me.
The number one rule is to not show you are disturbed. Get tons of support here. Thank him for his ideas.
" Thank you so much for your suggestion that we create a more cohesive team and pull together. It is very helpful to work in this way. I will go back and organize my thoughts on this and get back to you next Tuesday". You will never change him or the succubants. Don't get slowly boiled in oil dear Hops.
That is advice and I am sorry to be preachy. I have read everyting I can on sick workplaces and what they do to perfectly hardworkding good people.
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THANK YOU, Sea. Preach on!
I need to hear it and your language and images are so intuitive and evocative
that your message really reached me.
Strengthened me.
Thank you. Heart guards. Refuse the saucer. Step over the oil slick. Etc.
It just feels right and that kind of imaginative, empathic support is golden.
Thank you so much.
And I just caught up on your story thread. What a looooooooooooooong way
you've come...and now it sounds like you're just building a life of beauty.
Inside and out.
I'm so happy to read that view of you.
love
Hops
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That is ok Hops. Glad to offer assistance. I could give workshops on ths and write books. I have studied it non stop and lived it way too long.
#1 You do not deserve it. NOBODY DOES.
# 2 Trust your instincts. The guy is leaking poison. He is a toxic dump of a boss.
# 3 There may be another place for you.
#4 Don't wait until you crack up or get sick before you go.
# 5 Tape record some of this stuff. It will help you to trust your instinct so there is not even a little part of you that believes his bullshit.
#6 If no one has stepped up to help you out this is a sign that they don't want to be next. This is hurtful but very predictable. Don't look for nurturance in the place where you work. It will just disappoint you and contribute to your low self esteem.
There are powers at work that are group dynmically designed to screw you over. Nevermind worrying about being a victim. You are a victim and few people seem to have the psychological perception to really understand this stuff. Thank goodness a part of you is detaching and seeing it for what ti is.
Standing by. This would make a fantastic book. You are such a good writer, Hops.
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Oh, you do know that this won't change until there really are personnel changes at the top, right? Or until you leave.
And that people, being people of all sorts... you're bound to run into this even somewhere else. It's just par for the course, I think. Some of the gentler means of social interaction seem to be fading away in this era. Things that made it possible to function around dysfunctional people, in spite of them.
The only thing I have to suggest, is to give yourself a pep talk - and remind yourself that you've already lived through this kind of crap and worse and survived it intact. (Maybe a little disheveled and grossed out - but intact!) I truly think that these workplace bullies are terribly naive: it worked one time on one person, therefore this technique/strategy will always work on everyone who threatens my self-ordained and self-proclaimed territory or power threshold.
They honestly believe that you're not able to see right through them and what their motives really are. Like a toddler who plays at being invisible. Pathetic.
Get up in the morning and put on your armor - every morning - so that when you recognize that the monkey is throwing feces again - you can shrug it off, with "OK, and I'm protected by this suit I can take off and it'll wash right off". Remember Alfred? Batman's butler? He'll clean your suit for you, so it's bright and shiny in the morning again...
Yeah, it's silly. Works for me.
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Very thoughtful comment. This whole thing is something that should not happen. Like beating bunnies or kicking the oog. Those you can see and it is clear. This is like wading through oatmeal every day at work. With the occasional thunderbolt that nearly knocks you out. It is so wrong. It is such an uphill batter.
You survival stategy is a good idea. You mean you put your armor on and you forge ahead. Maybe you are in the upper echelons of the pecking order???? This having good boundaries not letting others diminish you is a very good art to have. Like having the handle on the inside so you can keep out rats etc.
Hops you make some very astute comments on older people being marginalized and women being marginalized. Being excluded, overlooked, minimized etc. is destructive. If you take it on. This is really hard to avoid under the circumstances.
I like to watch Inspector Morse because he abhors the way leadership is defined in his job. He is constantly in trouble and undervalued. He exaberates his superiors. Somehow he doesn't care. He is such a psychological warrior. He balances a lot of this work hell
sup
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Hops,
God, this is insane.
What if you just asked for an action plan in writing and decline the therapy or guided visualizations, can't you just say it's starting to violate your religious beliefs or something..
Like, my church doesn't believe in visualizations outside of the church and I am more comfortable with therapeutic techniques being administered by a licensed mental health professional so can you just put the action plan in a document as it pertains to communication styles etc.
Or request that if that dude has an issue to address it to the manager instead of to the whole office??
Nah, Don't leave Hops. Just kick P man in the nards.
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That's a good idea. It violates your religious beliefs. How creepy to force someone to be vulnerable. YOU WILL let me intrude into your deepest recesses and soft places..... definately creepy. A rself righteous power trip.
I hope you are ok. This stuff triggers old wounds for sure. There must be a way to step aside and let the bs go by. Garbanzo is right on when she says kick im in the nards. At least this could be a good visualization.
When I was being hung up to dry I would try to be like the Lamas in the chinese prison. They meditated and refused to give their bliss to the sadistic guards. This is insidious offender behaiour you are experiencing. Try not to catch the projections, they can really knock you on your butt.
n
You are a perfectly adequate person and people like you../
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Nah, Don't leave Hops. Just kick P man in the nards.
This is also an effective technique. Time & place being a critical element. Any old unexpected and out of character self-defense or expression of "I've had quite enough out of you" can work. Last resort, for me though.
Unless I'm wearing stilettos.
LOL... I guess you could always sneak up behind him and give him a wedgie instead!!
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Thank you invisible Amazons, so much!
Well, I flunked the "never let them see you upset" rule by a mile, and got teary in the meeting,
but managed to bring along my sane ally, Gman (though Nboss tried everything to set it up so
it would be "inconvenient" for him to come along). So we got to skip the forced meditation.
But I did get emotional, told Nboss I had felt completely thrown under the bus by his dismissive
reaction, defended my own perspective, etc.
I survived. But do wish I could leave. I'm almost 64 and just can't afford to, since I'd never
find another job here that could even half replace my salary ... there are bennies here I have
to hang in for, unfortunately. Again, though, the difference is having both witnesses and allies.
The writing idea is extremely compelling, and I do have a memoir in mind that could be very
therapeutic to write whether it's ever published or not. Giving it serious thought.
Current crisis seems over...a few touchy-feely (without the touchy) exercises coming up,
but with the full group, which is much less threatening to me than the private meetings.
So I'll survive.
Just nearly lost it this time, and explained to Nboss it was because after he'd sent Pman
to therapy and the behavior went away for a year, I'd thought it was over, so didn't have
my guard up. Was totally unprepared and too slow to spot the shivving coming.
Made my cooperation and seriousness clear, despite the few tears, and it wasn't awful.
But I'm sickened (re-sickened) by the cycle.
I think Nboss has a few surprises coming...among them, that my other "ally" who is super
bright and creative and a huge asset, is looking for another job. Doesn't appreciate his
tiny salary with two young kids. Duh.
Thank you all of you for hearing and validating me.
love,
Hops
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Well, I flunked the "never let them see you upset" rule by a mile, and got teary in the meeting,
but managed to bring along my sane ally, Gman (though Nboss tried everything to set it up so
it would be "inconvenient" for him to come along). So we got to skip the forced meditation.
Hops, why did you get to skip the forced meditation?
But I did get emotional, told Nboss I had felt completely thrown under the bus by his dismissive
reaction, defended my own perspective, etc. What was Nboss response?
I survived. But do wish I could leave. I'm almost 64 and just can't afford to, since I'd never
find another job here that could even half replace my salary ... there are bennies here I have
to hang in for, unfortunately. Again, though, the difference is having both witnesses and allies.
What was Gman's response to the meeting?
The writing idea is extremely compelling, and I do have a memoir in mind that could be very
therapeutic to write whether it's ever published or not. Giving it serious thought. It would be like excising demons, IME.
Current crisis seems over...a few touchy-feely (without the touchy) exercises coming up,
but with the full group, which is much less threatening to me than the private meetings. Is anyone in the office happy about these exercises?
So I'll survive.
Just nearly lost it this time, and explained to Nboss it was because after he'd sent Pman
to therapy and the behavior went away for a year, I'd thought it was over, so didn't have
my guard up. Was totally unprepared and too slow to spot the shivving coming. Again, what was Nboss' response to that statement? lighter
love,
Hops
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Hops, why did you get to skip the forced meditation?
Because Nboss senses the professionalism of Gman (he's our sole MBA) and wouldn't bother forcing it on
him alone w/me. He just did it with me alone with Pman-devotee because that's his notion of "preparing" us to talk.
What was Nboss response?
Blank face. Maybe a small flicker of discomfort or distress. Couldn't be sure.
What was Gman's response to the meeting?
He just said he was glad he could support me. And in the meeting he made clear, though
without dramatics, that he did. He had to go off to plan his grandpa's funeral. I was so grateful.
I don't imagine any knight-in-armor behavior, but his behind-the-scenes support has meant a lot.
I'm not asking him to confront Nboss for me, because he has to tend to his own position's safety too.
(Although in a way I did, by asking him to come even though Nboss was trying to avoid that, and
asking him to speak freely since we might not get another chance. He did, though quietly. And
that was okay. I understand it's awkward for him to show support for me, and he did anyway.)
It would be like excising demons, IME.
And, it might even be fun. I have SO many anecdotes and character studies I could do.
Is anyone in the office happy about these exercises?
I doubt it. Pman, the golden Nsociopathchild, metaphorically claps like a seal at everything Nboss initiates, so he appears to like them. I strongly
doubt anyone else does. Nboss is not open to mutiny, however, and it's an unwritten rule that nobody objects. This guru-stuff and "spiritual leadership"
pose is in Nboss' DNA, which everyone can sense. So nobody complains (payback would be fierce, and he's still the majority owner and we all still
need our jobs). So we all just suck it up and endure them. I know my other ally hates these mediations a lot, but he's not going to say anything.
Again, what was Nboss' response to that statement? lighter
Same thing: Blank face. Maybe a trace of discomfort or distress, etc... Ns don't usually reveal much. His responses are pretty robotic.
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As I was reading your response, Hops, I was thinking what an absurd waste of time it is for your boss to allow employee on employee hostilities to overtake the office, without addressing it in a meaningful way that stops it in it's tracks.
The chaos that's allowed to rule, the inflammatory e mails, the backbiting, the baseless accusations....... until N boss sweeps in with his awkward meditative mediations and save the day, is so very skewed. No wonder Nboss wouldn't force it down Gman's throat....it sounds crazy. I hope Nboss got to hear that Gman thinks the sycophant is the problem, and too much time is being wasted NOT dealing with him. Pffft.
That office is a playground for pd's, and the following saying comes to mind......
"Nobody has more fun than people and (flying)monkeys.
The flying monkeys in your office have way too much time on their hands.
::shaking head::
I'm so hoping your office ends up with a benign, if not fair, leader very soon.
From where I'm sitting, I don't really think your job was on the line, or that a true crisis was afoot, though I know exactly how it feels to be attacked, and threatened with malice like that.
We respond the same, no matter how real the threat is.
I wonder if we can train ourselves to NOT react in the future? No adrenaline dumps. No upset. No fear, or emotional upheaval?
lighter
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Well on my work front there was an improvement today...
The guy who was talking about genitals and prostitutes etc. etc. etc. well he finally pissed a customer off so bad that he got fired. He got his own arse fired. :)
I am so relieved, honestly I couldn't believe that it took so long. He was so rude, every time he walked by me I didn't make contact with him.
There was another lady where I work who told me that he made her really uncomfortable also and I had no idea about it, she is one of the senior people there.
This is going to make my days just a little bit more tolerable and happy at work... yay yaya yaya
Things can and do change it small ways.... sometimes
This doesn't improve your situation at all but I feel like it's a little hurrah for what is "right in the world"
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Sure does improve my day, Boat! I'm very glad to hear it. Feel more oxygen in the room immediately.
What bugs me, though, is that this aggressive offensive guy gets fired only when he offends a CU$TOMER.
Never mind the humanity and dignity of the women he worked beside...
Same way almost everywhere, unfortunately.
Thanks, TT...I read that book many years ago and should check it out again. Good idea.
I'm not sure I can drastically change my communication but I can work on my control.
Lighter, I never believed my job was on the line or in immediate danger. But Pman was
publicly undermining my reputation with colleagues (which matters, in my ability to get my work done)
as well as showing uninhibited hostility. Nboss lets it go on partly because he is deeply confused and
ineffectual (ordinary standards of professional boundaries don't exist in his head because he spent
20 years isolated in an ashram where the guru played exploitative mindgames just as Nboss is doing).
On another level, there are energies/attractions involved in the bond between Nboss and Pman that
a woman (given the contempt they both have for women....Pman's overt, Nboss' more covert though
painfully obvious to me) can't compete against. And I think on the third level, despite its effect on
morale and (my) productivity, it's stimulating/almost entertaining for Nboss. He professes to be
tired of it but it's hard to believe. At tmes I've thought he got some vicarious pleasure from Pman's
bullying of me...as though he offloaded onto Pman his own secret desire to humiliate women.
As to the adrenalin and self-control, I'm sure I'll never be able to NOT react, I'm just not wired
that way, but getting my reactions under much tighter control is important to me. Just for my
own satisfaction. I'm pretty well past the point of caring what Nboss thinks (and pretty sure
he'd never fire me). He and Pman together could make my older-worker years pretty miserable,
but I know if Gman becomes CEO, all will be well. (And if he doesn't my other ally and I are
going to try to talk Gman into leaving with us, and the three of us form our own company.)
That's not wise or realistic right now, but a fine fantasy.
xo
Hops
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There is no use being reactive in such a place. I look back at my crazy job where there were similar dynamics, the boss was creating a ver competitive and dysfunctional team where no one could feel safe and valued and they ganged up on the targeted person. There were favourites who were pandering after his approval and they got all the recognition although they actually were pretty underfunctioning.
I am saying keep your head down and keep low in the trenches. Anything to keep your blood pressure down.
It amazes me that you have the resilience to see a way out by forming a company. This is not such a bad idea. IF this guy did it you can too. I hope I am not adding to your burden by saying this.
These situations don't get better and the roots of the problem are found in narcissism and personality disorders.Get a little cluster of these people together and they raise havoc with a healthy person You are a healthy person and narcissist just HAVE to destroy goodness.
There is no doubt that you are right about the situation. So how does one survive such places.
Now I would rather sell doughnuts at tim hortons. It nearly killed me and I am a very healthy specimen and I was born courageous. I think you are like that too. But everyone has their breaking point. It can just come out of the blue. So somehow take care of yourself and don't let it get to you. If you have to be a turtle and go in your shell then so be it. This is another narcissistic playground.
It sounds like you have at least one ally there and that helps so much. Your story is helping me to understand the sick work environment. It was impossible for me not to take it personally because it was such a continual onslaught. Working in a place where not only are you not supported but you have to endure contempt is so awful. I felt I had to stay because my partner wasn't working, we would lose our house, my pension would be less. I was wrong. My health went downhill and I had always counted on my health and taken it for granted. Continual stress was very bad for my health. My pancreas got sick. I had never even thought about the pancreas or gallbladder or knees going. They all went. It has taken years to recover. I had a narcissistic partner who was waiting for a consulting job and a narcissistic sadistic boss. Oh oh. You just know it isn't going to work. You can't push the plough uphill for too long.
This is probably not what you want to hear. You are worth so much more than what you are getting.
Lots of love,
Sea storm
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Hops:
Leaving, and forming your own company with the 2 allies, isn't feasible now......
but I got chills just thinking about it.
Wouldn't it be grand to have an upbeat work environment, where everyone gets along, supports one another, and makes as much money, or more, than they did in the Nvironment?
Wouldn't it be great if your company came along,and kicked the snot out of your old company, with Pman at the helm?
BTW< your dog has his own dog bed in your office in that daydream; )
lighter
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Thanks, TT. I had a surprisingly wonderful day Friday because I worked with my two
great colleagues...we're so on the same page. We had outside vendors making presentations
to us for several days that I was fascinated by and that helped me feel re-engaged. I realized
that one issue for me, partly ADD and partly just my mind...is that for me, boredom is a threat
I have to be careful about.
I need a lot of intellectual stimulation to keep motivated, and Nboss is frankly not bright
enough to hook me into his games. He fundamentally bores me. Once you learn the deep
details of NPD and know what's going on, the emptiness of that kind of mind just is, when
not in active destructive mode, just...really, really BORING. (His dance with Pman is partly
that the two of them are similar--shrewd and smart in some ways, but so bent and empty
in others--and I think you're right. It's partly two peacocks just playing with their powers.
On the other hand there is obvious psycho-sexual stuff between the two of them. Whether
they've ever acted on it or not isn't interesting to me. But Nboss' closeted sexuality really
does have a big impact on everything. He is obsessed with gender issues (always bringing
me magazine images to make remarks about the appearance or gender identity of a person
in a photograph). At a staff meeting, to show his sense of humour, he dressed in drag and
was profoundly convincing in the part. Nothing camp about it. And he was exhilarated and
excited about it for days. I could go on...but I don't care.
I feel sorry for him because I believe if the world (and his own mindset) allowed authenticity,
he could be a happy, pleasant...whatever. Doesn't matter one bit to me who he is internally.
I am extremely accepting of everybody's personal right to a private or public identity of
any kind. But because he's so twisted up from his background, he'll never be able to
reintegrate all the parts of himself, so he does slicing destructive things now and then
to others...(I got elected as the woman, the mother, the whatever) to offload the disowned
parts of himself.
Ick. I'm BORED with analysing and understanding him, too. So having a refreshingly
engaged and creating-something few days with my good colleagues was really fun.
I've comforted myself in recent weeks with watching a series called Damages, on Netflix.
The females are not perfect (the Glenn Close character is very morally compromised). But
what has been comforting or at least bracing, has been absorbing some of their power.
A delight to watch stories in which gender is irrelevant, and powerful women make
things happen. (Though they're creepy and I wouldn't befriend them in real life!)
Sounds silly, but it's been putting starch back in my spine. I think fantasy helps,
and ultimately, that's what writing is. Time for me to write write write...a memoir
or novel that draws on all this rich experience.
xo
Hops
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H: "Ick. I'm BORED with analysing and understanding him, too. So having a refreshingly
engaged and creating-something few days with my good colleagues was really fun."....
:)
This is how they get power out of it... (I think)... is that your mind gets focused on him.
>>>>>> . <<<<<<<<<
mind >>>>>>> pman <<<<<<< mind
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Well....
I'm picturing something between an I LOVE LUCY version of you, seated at an old fashioned typewriter, pencill gripped between your teeth, and....
the bubby making witch from the Witches Of Eastwick.
::stepping back to admire the blend::
::nodding::
In any case, I'd be thrilled to read you're actually tackling the writing project, faithful companion by your side.
hhaw
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Wow Hops! What a change in attitude you have. Seeing it in other modes that are laughable seems like a major triumph.
I think you actually love working in a team if it is a healthy team. Mr Madhatter the boss is just dying to feel that way but can't and does a really bizarre imitation of it. >>>>> He dressed in DRAG??????????????? And no one else dressed up????? This is very interesting and thought provoking. Nice of you to mention that you didn't hold it against him in any way.
I was thinking of costumes that you might wear to a staff meeting. You could go as the dominatrix bad witch lady that he fantasizes you are, or a big pink bunny. Then the whole conversation would be quite different.This is in the realm of psycho drama which is very effective but hardly anyone is willing to do.
Glad you are having some respite from the continual contempt and uncreativity of the boring one.
It is totally ok for you to vent though. It is a difficult situation and we can't always run.
All the best to you and remember what Hopilong would do. I don't know but I think I will find out. He would say "Hi Ho Tonto and then what......."
Cheers,
Sea Storm
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Work stuff, : I have asthma, a manager where I work burns potpourri, I made a general statement to the HR person because it was brought up during training... about broadcasting an email reminding people about perfumey/aftershave stuff... got a really snotty and rude response back from the HR person that she then apologized for in an even worse way. I should write it down verbatim here. Anyhow, I went out and bought a citrus spray, citrus oil and alcohol that doesn't really aggravate my asthma as much as the chemical junk. Gave it to the manager who has the potpourri, (5 cans of it) she said she was going to keep one for herself as if it was some kind of gift and then distribute the rest in the office.... Well.. She didn't stop using the potpourri so today I sent her an email asking her point blank to stop.... that I purchased the other stuff hoping it could be used instead of other chemical air fresheners... WTF?. We all feel like we could get fired for the stupidest smallest things.
When I put it into perspective though... If somebody with a medical condition that I worked with needed me to make a minor change then I would. So it dumbfounds me that this is even a problem. Anyways that is my workplace stupidity..
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Got called into the vice-president's office of my company... ugghhhh that was an unexpected event.. like BAM.... felt like I was going into the principle's office. We are so compartmentalized where we work that I have never been into that part of the building before.
They had done that company survey / elicited responses. I responded saying that I wish they would be more aware of the amount of perfume Lysol.. sprays potpourri that people are using.. and put into the air because we work "out on a floor"... like one huge room all of us together no offices whatever people put into the air I have to breathe..
I feel like if I am called into the president's office personally like I am a problem person.
This guy has never talked to me before. He also asked me how long I have worked there... so I think that maybe he thinks I have been there too long LOL ... or maybe he just wants to know if I have been there a substantial amount of time.